#foswiki 2008-11-21,Fri

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Who	What	When
EugenMayer	robman: if i use $ in the handler function, i get this error. If i use plain js, i get bugged. Any idea why the jquery instance could be lost?	[00:04]
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robman	what other libs are you using in? and are you using firebug?	[00:07]
EugenMayer	it is a dialog bug they fixed it ( i just used a newer version ) but never talked about in tickets great...i search all the tickets	[00:09]
robman	doh so all fixed?	[00:10]
EugenMayer	yeah	[00:10]
robman	congrats 8)	[00:10]
EugenMayer	"waste your time advanced" :) thank you	[00:10]
robman	8)	[00:10]
RasmusPraestholm	haha, crazy oops, wrong window :)	[00:16]
robman	8)	[00:16]
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EugenMayer	n8	[00:33]
robman	nite	[00:33]
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SvenDowideit	weee, back from driving didn't even scare the cyclist we past passed thingo	[00:38]
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robman	by "past" i thought you meant "run over"	[01:14]
SvenDowideit	lol	[01:18]
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MartinCleaver	t.o. banner now says: We relaunched the TWiki.org project with an expanded TWiki charter, and we invite you to participate! The TWiki.org Code of Conduct agreement took effect on 27 Oct 2008. We ask existing twiki.org users to opt-in. You must opt-in to participate in the Blog, Codev, Plugins and TWiki webs. -- PeterThoeny - 27 Oct 2008 nice big bold lettering. That's Red, Italic, Bold.	[02:08]
SvenDowideit_	i would wonder what changed in the text but not enough to look i like peter's latest bug report tho it reports a bug in table plugin, and a workaround - implying that there is no fix pending	[02:12]
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sklus	sklus looking around for first time here	[03:46]
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sklus	Kenneth - are you by chance available?	[03:50]
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Lynnwood	hey - use google's new search wiki feature to add foswiki.org to twiki search results!	[03:54]
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SeanMc	everyone should do it google tells me I'm the first! (to "promote" it at least) interesting... http://www.fragonsight.com/forum/fos-wiki/5316-frag-sight-wiki.html btw, anyone posted to slashdot?	[04:04]
MartinCleaver	BlogAddOn is the way to go, right, rather than BlogPlugin? MartinCleaver thinks we should ditch one or other. BlogAddOn is not an AddOn. It's an App MartinCleaver wonders whether it is purely TWiki topics MartinCleaver kicks himself owww MartinCleaver wonders whether it is purely pure pure pure FosWiki topics	[04:08]
WillNorris	MartinCleaver: i believe so tho you'll need a bunch of plugins (if it's MD's version) or r u talking about arthur's? WillNorris looks up BlogAddOn hey, what happened to that helpful bot? ah, arthur's i don't know about that one i've been running MD's on http://biohack.net/TWikiRelease04x00/bin/view/Main/WillNorris/	[04:11]
MartinCleaver	Y, well, whichever. Having two hurts my brain. I'm left with choosing and wondering which will be the deadend	[04:17]
SvenDowideit_	or you could write your own home.org.au is one for eg one search, and one create new topic done. which was arthur's point	[04:18]
WillNorris	yes, nice simple app probably a good template to start on other things, too	[04:19]
MartinCleaver	I could build an accounting system too. Or a wiki.	[04:20]
WillNorris	of course, i have tag clouds! heh ;-) http://biohack.net/TWikiRelease04x00/bin/view/Main/WillNorris/BlogArchive?mode=tag , hahaha i morphed MD's blog into a jobs board system	[04:20]
MartinCleaver	MD's certainly looks more fully featured BlogPlugin: Basic blogging features used to implement the BlogUp TWikiApplication so... where's BlogUp in the Extensions list? MartinCleaver knows. It's not there MartinCleaver peers at http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/BlogUp "In combination with the NatSkin it ..." NatSkin is more than skin	[04:21]
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SvenDowideit_	not that i know of	[04:24]
MartinCleaver	Is there an official way to run multiple wiki sites off a single FosWiki install?	[04:33]
WillNorris	wtf's official? ;-)	[04:34]
MartinCleaver	heh	[04:34]
sklus	If it's: How do I install two foswikis parallely on the same system? I would like to know that, too.	[04:38]
MartinCleaver	yup, that's the q Like I have my own ways of doing it. But I don't want to maintain those ok. Sleep time.	[04:39]
sklus	How are you doing it up to now?	[04:40]
MartinCleaver	'night peeps ask me another time	[04:41]
sklus	ok. good night	[04:41]
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Traveler123	hello	[04:42]
harlan	hello Traveler123	[04:44]
Traveler123	i was wondering if someone could answer a question for me	[04:44]
harlan	You may ask any question you like. People here will answer in any way they like.	[04:45]
Traveler123	so basically i ran the configure file after setup it tries to goto domain.com/bin/view lets say i have twiki installed on the root there is not view dir	[04:45]
harlan	what if you visit domain.com/bin/view/Main/WebHome ?	[04:47]
Traveler123	same 404 not found http://www.dudewheresmycar.org/wiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome	[04:48]
harlan	sounds like a webserver configuration problem. what is in your logs?	[04:48]
SvenDowideit_	um backup how did you run configure? http://www.dudewheresmycar.org/wiki/bin/configure	[04:49]
Traveler123	domain.com/bin/configure/pl yeah	[04:49]
SvenDowideit_	as configure is a web based script just as view is	[04:49]
Traveler123	i appended .pl	[04:49]
SvenDowideit_	did you append .pl to the other scripts in the same dir?	[04:50]
Traveler123	yea all but the 2 cfg files	[04:50]
SvenDowideit_	cos thats a horrible (though functional if forced) way to do it in that case, you need to tell configure that you did so {ScriptSuffix} http://www.dudewheresmycar.org/wiki/bin/view.pl which also suggests that the cfg isn't totally right, but at least gotes somewhere	[04:50]
sklus	and you should see something at http://www.dudewheresmycar.org/wiki/bin/view.pl/Main/WebHome	[04:51]
Traveler123	yeah i wasnt sure about scriptsffix do i just substitute it with .pl	[04:51]
SvenDowideit_	y	[04:52]
Traveler123	i mean in the configure file	[04:53]
SvenDowideit_	post that, you will need to look at the web server logs to find out why you get 500 error	[04:53]
Traveler123	i see i have no idea where to find my server logs since its a shared server	[04:54]
SvenDowideit_	your hosting providor will likely have docco telling you where and how to do things	[04:56]
sklus	sklus is going to get some sleep CU guys.	[04:57]
SvenDowideit_	nite :)	[04:57]
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Traveler123	when it did a check on the view.pl script cgi: File not present or has invalid modes with no Parameter inputed	[05:00]
SvenDowideit_	ah :) simple fix then - same perms as configure	[05:01]
Traveler123	ah which are?	[05:01]
SvenDowideit_	whatever you did for configure.pl there are no absolute answers - those sorts of things are dependant on how the hoster has set things up	[05:01]
Traveler123	the thing is i never did anything to configure.pl	[05:02]
SvenDowideit_	except add a .pl ext	[05:03]
Traveler123	yeah	[05:03]
SvenDowideit_	:}	[05:03]
Traveler123	hm not sure what todo	[05:05]
WillNorris	do the permissions on configure.pl match view.pl?	[05:06]
SvenDowideit_	pasically, its likely that the file permissions of view.pl and the other scripts are not identical to those of configure.pl snapage :)	[05:06]
Traveler123	they're all 755	[05:06]
WillNorris	i don't know what u need to do then, either am i seeing a bug? http://foswiki.org/bin/rdiff/Support/HowToInstallCpanModules?type=last&render=sequential&context=9000&_foo=2#diff001	[05:06]
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WillNorris	http://foswiki.org/Support/HowToInstallCpanModules but note the comment by AnoopR is not on the view page, nor is it shown as deleted on the diff page WillNorris confused	[05:06]
SvenDowideit_	Traveler123, i'd read up the hosters docco on debugging perl cgi issues it will be something simple, but highly dependant on them	[05:07]
Traveler123	oh	[05:07]
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Traveler123	does this still work since i dont have server access Norris	[05:10]
WillNorris	WillNorris no understand	[05:10]
Traveler123	so basically ur saying i need to install CPAN	[05:11]
WillNorris	no not related to your problem i have no more advice for you, other than to second sven's advice to read your hoster's docs :)	[05:12]
Traveler123	nice haha	[05:13]
WillNorris	i assume this isn't dreamhost?	[05:14]
Traveler123	1and1	[05:15]
SvenDowideit_	go to twiki.org find the docco on 1and1 i've never used them	[05:15]
WillNorris	ah	[05:19]
SvenDowideit_	ah, thats better http://trac.foswiki.org	[05:19]
WillNorris	just had a thought Traveler123: can u make .htaccess files?	[05:19]
Traveler123	oh? yeah	[05:20]
WillNorris	then u don't need .pl extensions look at the htaccess.txt in the bin directory	[05:20]
Traveler123	so i would need to make a .htaccess file then remove all the .pl extenstions kk im in the hta file	[05:20]
SvenDowideit_	i'm guessing reading the 1and1 specific docco from twiki.org and the INSTALL.html will help you a hell of a lot more than us making it up as we go along	[05:21]
Traveler123	i checked twiki but couldnt find much	[05:21]
WillNorris	i'll copy the 1&1 doc over from t.o if i find it :/	[05:22]
Traveler123	kk	[05:22]
WillNorris	http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Support/InstallationProblem says The CGI requirement is most likely caused by the Plesk control panel that 1&1 uses. I've spent a couple of days trying to get this and other perl programs to work, only to have to add the .pl extention to the files in bin. i don't find anything else on 1&1	[05:23]
Traveler123	which is what i did already haha nice	[05:24]
SvenDowideit_	thats not a good sign for 1and1	[05:25]
Traveler123	guess its time to switch	[05:25]
WillNorris	SvenDowideit: do u use the free vmware server product to run your vm's?	[05:25]
SvenDowideit_	either its so easy no-one needed to docco anything (y unlikely) or people didn't get it going WillNorris, i use vmware fusion and vmwareserver2 on linux64bit	[05:25]
WillNorris	http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiOnWebHostingSites#1and1	[05:26]
Traveler123	ill check it out now	[05:26]
SvenDowideit_	there you go	[05:26]
WillNorris	http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiOnWebHost1and1 ok, i'll bring over that doc then Traveler123 can update it based on his experience ;-)	[05:27]
SvenDowideit_	SvenDowideit_ laughs at WillNorris's definition of 'don't find anything else' :)	[05:28]
WillNorris	grrr, it's still renaming	[05:30]
Traveler123	i think i got it http://dudewheresmycar.org/wiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome correct output right?>	[05:31]
WillNorris	Traveler123: looks good	[05:32]
Traveler123	damn that took forever	[05:33]
WillNorris	http://foswiki.org/Support/FoswikiOnWebHost1and1	[05:33]
Traveler123	wait whats the diff from foswiki nvm	[05:34]
WillNorris	nothing yet just the name Traveler123: so, what did u change? what made it work?	[05:35]
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Traveler123	i tried the a new .htaccess file then renamed all the pl	[05:37]
geri	has anyone used SpreadSheet::WriteExcel module in perl	[05:37]
WillNorris	i use it all the time, in fact	[05:37]
geri	oh	[05:37]
WillNorris	WillNorris goes a lot of reports for work :/	[05:38]
geri	wanted to ask is there a way to get the max row count of excel sheet	[05:38]
Traveler123	thanks again for ur help guys seeya around	[05:38]
SvenDowideit_	hell y, VBScript is awsome	[05:38]
WillNorris	Traveler123: yw good luck :)	[05:38]
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SvenDowideit_	yay, and now you can login to trac too	[05:39]
WillNorris	SvenDowideit_: yay indeed	[05:39]
SvenDowideit_	and _if_ we make a restricted area in svn it should require you to log in to see it from trac too	[05:39]
WillNorris	geri: hmmm, depends on the excel version, no?	[05:40]
SvenDowideit_	but that'll need testering also have logo :}	[05:40]
geri	WillNorris:hold on ill check	[05:40]
WillNorris	or do u mean the max row that u wrote to?	[05:40]
geri	WillNorris:yes i want to get the max row moreover append to an existing sheet excel 2003	[05:41]
WillNorris	append? so, u have to read it in first, right? that's not SS:WriteExcel	[05:42]
geri	ohh then do u knw the way out	[05:43]
WillNorris	but no, SS::WriteExcel doesn't have a way to tell u the max row used	[05:43]
geri	k	[05:43]
WillNorris	programming	[05:43]
geri	maybe some other module	[05:43]
WillNorris	heh yeah, looking http://search.cpan.org/~jmcnamara/Spreadsheet-ParseExcel-0.41/lib/Spreadsheet/ParseExcel.pm	[05:43]
geri	i tried that actually	[05:45]
WillNorris	don't know what else to suggest to u then those are the 2 modules that i use	[05:46]
SeanMc	If you can stand Java, openoffice has some libraries you can use	[05:59]
SvenDowideit_	may as well use excel it has alot of very nice to use API's i think i've used, COM, DCOM, OBDC, VBScrip, JScript, c++ c# VB and VB.NET to excel, word and visio mm, and access :/ and i presume there's a strong wsh interface nowadays	[06:02]
robman	robman sees sven in a different light now (a sort of browner light)	[06:05]
SvenDowideit_	:) from 96-05 i was a windows sw eng	[06:05]
SeanMc	SeanMc gasps	[06:06]
SvenDowideit_	with strong ties to unix admining and coding from before that	[06:06]
robman	robman wipes the coffee he just spat all over his laptop off	[06:06]
SvenDowideit_	and several years of 1,2,3 level support, training and speaking in there	[06:06]
SeanMc	so you're a complete floozy	[06:06]
SvenDowideit_	basically, i'm not very self motivated - i prefer to help others	[06:07]
robman	you call that help	[06:07]
Babar	you saw Arthur's page about that?	[06:07]
robman	sheesh	[06:07]
Babar	or Bruce Schneier's?	[06:07]
SvenDowideit_	i worked for a few years doing programming and admining at a climate research center while doing my BEng not yet :) have to boot to a computer that has flash and working sound	[06:07]
Babar	you don't have linux?	[06:08]
SvenDowideit_	yes, i do but i don't set up flash on it practical and religious views :)	[06:08]
Babar	there is a flash player now made by Adobe, works for 64 bits	[06:09]
SvenDowideit_	practical - i do more work this way	[06:09]
robman	did you see all the major security exploits in flash last year though	[06:09]
WillNorris	Bawhich arthur's page?	[06:09]
Babar	and it rocks, compared to the 32bits emulation :)	[06:09]
SvenDowideit_	religious - i dislike adobe	[06:09]
Babar	Babar agrees flash is evil	[06:09]
SvenDowideit_	they don't add much to my world	[06:09]
Babar	plus if you don't install flash, you don't need AdBlockPlus :)	[06:09]
SvenDowideit_	lol	[06:09]
robman	i love flash in it's right place - especially it's bidirectional sockets...but that exploit was just plain scary	[06:09]
WillNorris	heh	[06:09]
SeanMc	hehe	[06:10]
Babar	http://www.neurosciencemarketing.com/blog/articles/helping-others-makes-you-hot.htm (which doesn't need any flash anyway)	[06:10]
SvenDowideit_	oh, i see helping others as mostly selfish i learn stuff, see stuff i wouldn't otherwise, and learn more than i would by myself	[06:10]
WillNorris	ah, well that would certainly explain how altruism is selected for! otherwise, one would have think it should have died out (mostly)	[06:10]
SvenDowideit_	yup i like that the description is similar to the why con's work article that was on /. the other day :)	[06:11]
WillNorris	WillNorris hasn't read ./ in a week :/	[06:12]
Babar	oh yes, that's the one I meant... http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/11/the_neuroscienc.html Babar read it through Bruce's blog :)	[06:12]
SvenDowideit_	hehe ok, i _think_ i read it via /.	[06:12]
Babar	Babar can't see any post to that on /. http://nagiosplugins.org/node/98 <--- might help those using tinderbox or Test::More :)	[06:15]
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SvenDowideit_	ok, yay, the Foswiki starfish CDN is now active	[06:35]
SeanMc	starfish?	[06:37]
SvenDowideit_	i made a cdn, so i called it a name :) we can cut off a limb of the cdn and it'll keep working :D	[06:38]
SeanMc	you made a CDN? how many endpoints? and where?	[06:38]
SvenDowideit_	one atm	[06:38]
SeanMc	ah right :-)	[06:38]
SvenDowideit_	4 once i've set up all the serevrs that have been donated	[06:38]
SeanMc	see that Amazon now offers a CDN service on top of s3	[06:39]
SvenDowideit_	and then we can start expanding it to work geo wise, add lookup and have distributed wiki requests too yes, i know, but why pay for what you can write 10 lines of code for i'm not (yet) impressed by the utility of amazon's offering for foss however, i do have a better plan	[06:39]
SeanMc	it's more about the number of edges, and the "cost" of hardware and maintenance	[06:40]
SvenDowideit_	i'll add SF to our cdn	[06:40]
SeanMc	but yeah, more fun to byo	[06:41]
SvenDowideit_	best thing is that here, for foswiki.org, i'll want to have the cdn be able to use your local comuter if you're that way inclined its more a step one of distributed wiki servers the static files being the most trivial so outsourcing the easy bits won't help us develop the more interesting code bits	[06:41]
SeanMc	no, fair point	[06:42]
SvenDowideit_	SvenDowideit_ is harsh, but fair :)	[06:43]
SeanMc	distributed/load balanced local instances would be a great feature	[06:43]
SvenDowideit_	yup its been on my roadmap for ages, but there were a couple of things holding me back from it now, its mostly time, testing and mortguage so i'll obviously have it completed tomorrow	[06:43]
SeanMc	heh was going to say, get it done before the babies arrive	[06:44]
SvenDowideit_	i have my doubts about that already :) there are so many things on my todo list :) i figure i'll just have to teach them to code	[06:45]
SeanMc	I'm trying to type and entertain my 6month old at the same time	[06:45]
SvenDowideit_	hehe chording kb i wanted to make one, still too lazy :/	[06:45]
SeanMc	I don't think he likes Mac's he keeps kicking my lappie	[06:47]
SvenDowideit_	it makes a nice sound solid get him an old 368/486 thinkpad	[06:47]
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SvenDowideit_	they're solid enough to chew on trac.foswiki.org configured, starfish.foswiki.org running, not a bad day so far :) guess i need to go shopping for food	[06:47]
.... (idle for 17mn)
gmc	what's it doing, starfish?	[07:05]
SvenDowideit_	DistribServerPlugin regex's all foswiki.org/pub/TWiki url's to point to one of the list of servers in the Config so the skin's static files come from more than one server, allowing the browser to make more requests at once once we have a few more servers set up round robin dumb style, we can start to look at geoDNSing it next thing tho is to set up aircanopy and musmo's servers to sync from starfish.foswiki.org, serve those files and to add a non-randome selection of file->server mapping mmm, but me is hungry, so should go shopping :)	[07:06]
CDot	what is starfish.foswiki.org? CDot visits the site and understandsish	[07:10]
Darokan	good morning :)	[07:12]
Lavr	Good morning CDot. That bin script for compare runs but it does not work. It just does the exact same as view. Nothing in error_log	[07:14]
Darokan	Somebody has an idea where the problem is with the EditChapterPlugin might be?	[07:20]
SvenDowideit_	Darokan, you'll hate me - yes, the code :( Lavr, is there stuffs we can do to progress the association? i'd like to offload the domains	[07:21]
Darokan	is it possible to uninstall the plugin?	[07:23]
SvenDowideit_	if you disable it, it won't run :/ uninstalling plugins - i'm not so sure about	[07:23]
Darokan	Maybe I should reinstall it again and install only the EditChapterPlugin	[07:24]
SvenDowideit_	install one beside the one you have its faster :)	[07:25]
Darokan	this is not possible, because I installer can select a directory where it should install	[07:26]
SvenDowideit_	ah, if that means you're on windows	[07:27]
Darokan	yes	[07:27]
SvenDowideit_	then you may well have a world of issues	[07:27]
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SvenDowideit_	if you use the JeOSVMware image you'll get there much faster alot of developers of twiki stuff are non-windows pple	[07:27]
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Lavr	Sven - association - yes we are progressing slowly. Working on legal stuff at the moment. Expect a looong process. German rules are complicated.	[07:31]
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gmc	so why did we pick germany then? its the tax-bit of it, no? that is making life difficult..	[07:34]
SvenDowideit_	and this time, i'm actually going outside! laters	[07:37]
gmc	be careful, bit windy out ther e	[07:39]
Lavr	Germany because this project is full of Germans. But if needed we will form it elsewhere. Hope to give more news in just a few days.	[07:40]
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antenore	morning	[07:41]
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Lovwyr	Moin Moin	[07:42]
ColasHome	Hi all. Are there here people in the foswiki-security@lists.sourceforge.net. list?	[07:42]
gmc	gmc points at SvenDowideit_ and robman oh and CDot	[07:45]
CDot	gmc: oh and gmc Lavr: on legals; did you have the conversation with that person on Monday? and on the bin script for compare; you didn't read my instructions, i suspect it requires a LocalSite.cfg entry $Foswiki::cfg{SwitchBoard}{compare} = [ 'TWiki::Contrib::CompareRevisionsAddOn::Compare', 'compare', { 'comparing' => 1 } ]; (this is required by the TSA code, and should be added by configure)	[07:53]
ColasHome	SvenDowideit, robman: I am still on the twiki-security mailing list. An alert has been sent to it, but the submitter wants to communicate with pgp keys exchanges first, which PTh do not I will propose to act as a proxy for the 2 security lists SvenDowideit, robman, you may want to publish your pgp keys on the page: http://foswiki.org/Main/SecurityGroup ?	[07:56]
CDot	ColasHome: good - I was going to send them my PGP key, but if you do it that would be great CDot notes that the veridis keyserver is down :-(	[07:59]
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ColasHome	OK Do you think I should CC my reply also to foswiki-security ML?	[08:03]
CDot	yes	[08:04]
ColasHome	ok	[08:04]
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.... (idle for 16mn)
CDot	CDot adds his thoughts on TWiki to http://foswiki.org/Community/TWikiWatch	[08:41]
SvenDowideit	ColasHome, i'm also still on t*-sec and we have a sectaskteam, just have to write it up my gpg key is on all my email sigs	[08:47]
ColasHome	ok, I didnt know if you were still on t*sec and if you wanted to mail on it.	[08:48]
SvenDowideit	I also have other contacts etc sec :) i'm very curious how the *-sec stuff will pan out over time I'd be thrilled if you would take it atm just cos i have stupidly signed up to too many thigs typical of me really	[08:48]
ColasHome	I would gladly take it, but I am a bit ashamed of the lack of time I can devote to foswiki (my problem is that this time is too fragmented now for real work)	[08:50]
SvenDowideit	ColasHome, perfect :)	[08:51]
CDot	Is anyone going to have time to investigate it?	[08:52]
SvenDowideit	cos that job is mostly very fragmented um, imo, the security team should join #foswiki-admin	[08:52]
CDot	CDot has already burnt all his available Foswiki hours this week and more :-(	[08:52]
SvenDowideit	i had an idea as i was walking to the shops	[08:52]
ColasHome	I can commit to it, but I am a novice on this (do not know the proper processes etc)	[08:53]
CDot	"buy new shoes"?	[08:53]
SvenDowideit	but would rather not make the exploit too obvious ColasHome, processes? those are used to stop us from fixing things	[08:53]
ColasHome	I mean, I remeber some submitter being pissed off because we didnt release under the proper processes of the security community	[08:54]
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CDot	ColasHome: for things like security, IMHO there needs to be a strong processes, but those processes need to be believed in my the community a tall order	[08:54]
SvenDowideit	or we do a linus	[08:55]
ColasHome	Ok, so I guess It should aply to be in the foswiki-security group	[08:55]
MichaelDaum	good morning foslks	[08:55]
SvenDowideit	and ignore it, and just fix shit	[08:55]
CDot	SvenDowideit: IMHO that is a flawed approach that reflects badly on the project. we could do worse than carbon-copy the process of another project e.g Debian	[08:55]
SvenDowideit	i don't think we could implement it or any other real process as we never have the time, energy or people feel free to prove me wrong :) i was serious about you guys joining #foswiki-admin btw	[08:57]
CDot	CDot hasn't the time or energy to prove SvenDowideit wrong	[08:58]
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antenore	I've some questions, ideas and doubts regarding the fork... Do I post here? or is it better I send an email to the ml?	[09:10]
SvenDowideit	may as well start here :) might be easy ones	[09:10]
antenore	well... let's start merci, danke, grazie, thanks	[09:11]
SvenDowideit	1) we are all 100% of the previsou twiki developer community	[09:11]
antenore	yes, I know	[09:11]
SvenDowideit	ah, ok, real q's :)	[09:11]
antenore	so... I'm working for a midle size enterprise... and we have a twiki installation.. who was owned before by another menber of this community	[09:11]
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antenore	I want to migrate... slowly but surelly... and I'd like to document the migration...	[09:12]
CDot	antenore: my hero! :-)	[09:12]
antenore	at the moment I was just planning to put some notes on my home page... but maybe, with your help, we can write a wiki page it's much better I guess.	[09:13]
SvenDowideit	definitly - means we can help you out with tips too as there are may ways to do it	[09:13]
MartinCleaver	Sven - Tasks.ItemTemplate$formfield(Component) - I'm going to make a DebianPackage topic to collect tasks around it.	[09:14]
antenore	nice	[09:14]
SvenDowideit	MartinCleaver, aha :)	[09:14]
antenore	CDot: :-) thx... but wait... I could make a disaster :-D	[09:15]
SvenDowideit	no such thing if you do something less than optimal, it tells us we need to be clearer about the optimal path	[09:15]
antenore	ok... So should I write a new wiki page? if yes any advices for the title?	[09:16]
SvenDowideit	hehe - i alwasy find that a hard q too	[09:16]
antenore	or I should you just my sandbox to start	[09:16]
SvenDowideit	its up to you, and where you find it more comfortable some people start in a sandbox and then migrate whereas others use the visibility to get more feedback	[09:16]
antenore	ok... I'll so people can help improving and after we can migrate	[09:17]
SvenDowideit	(i prefer to use the development web and have epople reading it and tellin gme when i go wrong) just just after - they should be able t help during too	[09:17]
antenore	ok, we can discuss in the meanwhile... second question... ???	[09:18]
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antenore	the 19th I wrote an article in my blog... mainly using infos from foswiki site...	[09:19]
SvenDowideit	in the best tradition of blooging :)	[09:20]
antenore	could it be a good candidate for the fosswiki news?	[09:20]
SvenDowideit	yup just go add it :) wiki's are all self serve :}	[09:20]
antenore	don't you mind if i post the link here?	[09:20]
SvenDowideit	nope foswiki is all go go go because everyone 'just does it'	[09:20]
antenore	be aware there are some small ads... ;-) http://antenore.blogspot.com/2008/11/twiki-nor-twiki-of-course-foswiki.html	[09:21]
SvenDowideit	and the 3 or 4 times someone's done something others don't agree with, we discuss, argue, fight and then edit less ads than slashdot and we linked them too	[09:21]
MartinCleaver	MartinCleaver joins #foswiki-dev in the hope of an rss view of foswiki activities	[09:22]
antenore	yep for sure... I'm quite against... but I need to survive	[09:22]
SvenDowideit	if it helps you, thats cool :)	[09:22]
MartinCleaver	MartinCleaver files debian package bug http://foswiki.com/Tasks/Item6124	[09:22]
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SvenDowideit	er MartinCleaver, that would be because you don't use configure to install plugins for debian? you use apt-get???	[09:23]
MartinCleaver	well, shouldn't configure say so????	[09:23]
CDot	antenore: write in the Support web	[09:24]
SvenDowideit	using configure is not only bad, dumb and crap it would, if i had inifinte time	[09:24]
antenore	CDot: about? sorry...	[09:24]
MartinCleaver	MartinCleaver tries apt-get	[09:24]
SvenDowideit	or a >$0 budget	[09:24]
MartinCleaver	in fact, on debian, shouldn't configure invoke apt-get?	[09:24]
SvenDowideit	um, think about that	[09:24]
MartinCleaver	privs, notwithstanding	[09:24]
SvenDowideit	and realise how stupid a q it is	[09:24]
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MartinCleaver	it should at least tell the user that they should use apt-get.	[09:25]
SvenDowideit	next time you run configure as root - ie run apache as root	[09:25]
MartinCleaver	y, "privs"	[09:25]
SvenDowideit	tell me, and i'll go offline for the next week	[09:25]
MartinCleaver	I got t	[09:25]
CDot	antenore: your upgrade experiences	[09:26]
antenore	ok CDot: ok	[09:26]
CDot	write it as "How to upgrade from X to Y"	[09:26]
antenore	So do I psot the news?	[09:26]
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SvenDowideit	antenore, yes	[09:27]
antenore	CDot: ok	[09:27]
SvenDowideit	no need to ask for permissions	[09:27]
antenore	I always ask... asking is allowed... answering in courtesy is*	[09:27]
CDot	antenore: asking for permission is what froze TWiki, so we're in "do it and be damned" mode here in reaction to that :-)	[09:28]
antenore	CDot: :-D	[09:28]
CDot	someone will soon speak up if they don't like what you do	[09:28]
antenore	CDot: ok	[09:28]
MartinCleaver	MartinCleaver updates Task thanks, BTW, SvenDowideit. apt-get went smoothly.	[09:29]
SvenDowideit	i would hope so :)	[09:30]
antenore	news submitted... 3rd and for now maybe the last question... did you think/discuss the possibility to update wikipedia? In the Twiki article, in the wiki comaprison and a new article for foswiki	[09:32]
SvenDowideit	peter and some non-foswiki people already had an editwar on there its likely that it'll be updated over time by interested people :) again, its a - anyone that wants to can do whatever they want thing	[09:33]
antenore	ok, ok thx a lot! ;-) I like much more the new fresh air...	[09:35]
SvenDowideit	grin :) we too	[09:36]
MartinCleaver	Remember we were asking for new webs, back in what, 2004? We got some ;)	[09:42]
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EugenMayer	morning people	[09:46]
MartinCleaver	4:46am is kinda mornin'	[09:46]
EugenMayer	sound like US?	[09:46]
MartinCleaver	Toronto, Canada.	[09:47]
EugenMayer	Ok, same wind direction :)	[09:47]
MartinCleaver	:) MartinCleaver has a newborn that ain't sleepin'	[09:47]
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MartinCleaver	hurrah. Someone fixed AUTOINC in the Tasks web	[09:48]
EugenMayer	CDot: one question. I could not get my trunk working yesterday so i was doing smth else. You integrated tinyMCE and Jquery into twiki. I did this for an other project also, but it seems whenever tiny is shown, it kills my jquery instance afterwards. This will be essentiall if want develop the dialog-driver-ui for natskin. Do you have and tips on that?	[09:49]
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CDot	I dodn't do JQuery CDot uses dojo more than jquery, but didn;t integrate that either	[09:51]
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EugenMayer	ok fine, then i fight my way through it. I see natskin using both but i guess we have exactly the same problems there ( tiny still is not activated ) i try to solve this here and will try to solve this for nat then MichaelDaum: ping	[09:52]
CDot	EugenMayer: Micha was working on that	[09:53]
EugenMayer	Yeah, we might exchange and help us a bit. I have tiny working with jquery and jquery-dialog ( what is quite much more completcated ) but still lossing the instance after showing tiny Before we did not solve this i cant start with the dialogs for natskin ( it will not be for, it will something like natskindialog, will be a subskin you can "overload" natskin with, to activate only for specific users ( starters ) or whatever EugenMayer updating tunk and hoping anybody using the trunk and has an idea why this happesn : http://pastebin.com/m74f5ae1 it seems like setlib.cfg does not set the path for lib/CPAN/lib where Error.pm is located. But iam not to familiar with all that include stuff and iam stucked since yesterday there, can really test trung s/tung/trunk	[09:54]
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Babar	hum... did you set the lib in setlib.cfg? you said it doesn't do it, but did you ask it to do it? :) in LocalLib.cfg	[10:08]
ktwilight_	Colas__, ping	[10:09]
Babar	# @localPerlLibPath = ( '/path/to/dir' );	[10:09]
EugenMayer	Babar: iam not able to run the configure scrit	[10:09]
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ktwilight_	EugenMayer, rejoin please	[10:09]
Babar	it's not configurable through configure	[10:09]
EugenMayer	Babar: ok this would be the manual way. What is about the casual user?	[10:09]
Babar	you can't set it through configure I'm afraid... CDot: do you have a way in configure to tweak @INC?	[10:09]
Colas__	<ktwilight_> Colas__, ping - pong	[10:10]
EugenMayer	Babar: ok, this will work out for me but it is working in the branch automatically. I guess we should fix that	[10:11]
Babar	automatically?! really?	[10:11]
EugenMayer	ok, lets say it the diffrent way it works out of the box.	[10:12]
Babar	by default, it's lib/CPAN/lib	[10:12]
EugenMayer	same directory, same installation	[10:12]
Babar	core/bin/setlib.cfg:$CPANBASE = "$twikiLibPath/CPAN/lib/" unless $CPANBASE;	[10:12]
EugenMayer	yeah, but there is also the Error.pm located	[10:12]
antenore	well support question opened...	[10:13]
Babar	antenore: where? EugenMayer: hum... is your Error.pm located there?	[10:13]
antenore	Babar: hello, foswiki	[10:13]
EugenMayer	Babar: not "mine". Its lcoated there in trunk	[10:13]
antenore	Babar: you should recognize something ;-)	[10:14]
EugenMayer	Babar: i acutally did not customize anything. Its just pure trunk with pseudo-install.pl default	[10:14]
Babar	pure trunk works great :) check http://trunk.foswiki.org so your error has to come from something else	[10:14]
antenore	Babar: http://foswiki.org/Support/Question3	[10:15]
EugenMayer	Babar: this is the trunk :) I just SVN updated ok, nevertheless, i delete the whole trunk and start from new	[10:16]
Babar	EugenMayer: I can help you fix it if you want... but I had some really strange errors with svn on foswiki.org Babar had to manually svn update a few directories, otherwise it wouldn't take them	[10:17]
EugenMayer	Babar: no, i mean its not only about fixing. Its about looking why it happend, because this could happen other users.	[10:17]
Babar	ok, it's probably some svn update run as root there	[10:18]
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EugenMayer	i go fot the one "svn co http://svn.nextwiki.org/trunk/ ./" corret? Babar: i check that	[10:18]
Babar	looks correct to me normally, you should have: core/lib/CPAN/lib/Error.pm	[10:19]
EugenMayer	exactly there its located	[10:20]
Babar	and if this directory exist (core/lib/CPAN/lib), then it should be added in @INC by setlib.cfg	[10:20]
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Babar	your $twikiLibPath in LocalLib.cfg is correct, and points to /path/to/core/lib ? so I can say that $twikiLibPath/CPAN/lib exists?	[10:20]
EugenMayer	iam starting from new, checkout is running just to get it clean	[10:21]
Babar	'k	[10:21]
Lynnwood	is there a general user/pw to log into http://trunk.foswiki.org to browse it?	[10:22]
Babar	your user/pass should work from the main site	[10:22]
Lynnwood	thanks	[10:22]
EugenMayer	AndreU: you have to rejoin admins, chanserv is running mad :)	[10:22]
Babar	Babar checked,m LynnwoodBrown is there :) Lynnwood is in da place!	[10:22]
AndreU	AndreU just finished reading the logs	[10:23]
Lynnwood	y, i just couldn't remember my pw :-[10:24] <Babar> hum... can't help you with that :) but FF can	[10:24]
AndreU	hm, I have to "rejoin"	[10:24]
Lynnwood	who came up with the foswiki logo?	[10:24]
Babar	CDot, but it's a placeholer	[10:24]
Lynnwood	y, i saw discussions but good on CDot!	[10:25]
Babar	Babar likes it, it's cool	[10:25]
Lynnwood	i like	[10:25]
Colas__	very nice logo, BTW (at least it is not red ;-)	[10:25]
Lynnwood	lol it's nice an lean	[10:25]
Colas__	note that we may need 2 logos	[10:25]
Babar	antenore: Sun Fire V240?! Man, you moved twiki onto CSint1?	[10:26]
Colas__	one free of use, and one trademarked reserved to the "officla" foswiki documents	[10:26]
Babar	oh no sorry, V240... wasn't there when I was there :)	[10:26]
Colas__	like debian: http://www.debian.org/logos/	[10:26]
Lynnwood	has there been any more talk of trademarking foswiki?	[10:27]
EugenMayer	Babar: www/www.collaborganize.de/core/lib # pwd /var/www/www.collaborganize.de/core/lib	[10:27]
Colas__	note that Debian never used its official logo yet, it is there just as a safeguard	[10:27]
EugenMayer	cat LocalLib.cfg\| grep collab $twikiLibPath = "/var/www/www.collaborganize.de/core/lib";	[10:27]
Lynnwood	i got sidetracked on it by looking at possible legal help but that was deadend	[10:27]
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EugenMayer	he still cant find Error.pm	[10:27]
Babar	EugenMayer: ls -lad /var/www/www.collaborganize.de/core/lib/CPAN/lib	[10:28]
EugenMayer	ls -lad /var/www/www.collaborganize.de/core/lib/CPAN/lib drwxr-xr-x 8 www-data www-data 4096 Nov 21 11:21 /var/www/www.collaborganize.de/core/lib/CPAN/lib/	[10:28]
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Babar	EugenMayer: can you use configure or it fails still?	[10:29]
EugenMayer	Babar: one second, pastebinning http://pastebin.com/m5e17d9ed Babar: to answer your question, no it still does not work	[10:29]
Babar	hum... that's not normal...	[10:30]
EugenMayer	lokking at lib, its not include lib/CPAN/lib s/lokking at lib/looking @INC	[10:30]
Babar	yep...	[10:30]
EugenMayer	Babar: as i said, completely 2 minutes old trunk, pseudo-install-default .. created .htpasswd and added the line in bin/LocalLib.cfg	[10:31]
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EugenMayer	thats exactly what i touched there. beside ( svn co http://svn.nextwiki.org/trunk/ ./ ) and ( chown www-data:www-data ./ -R )	[10:31]
Babar	-R at the end? but shouldn't matter :)	[10:32]
EugenMayer	works on debian, not on BSD but its more correct on BSD	[10:32]
Babar	yeah, because it shouldn't work Babar blames gmc...	[10:33]
EugenMayer	files all owned by the script-user could the dots make problems in the path? i mean, normally its not that way but maybe its something related to that?	[10:33]
Babar	gmc / CDot / SvenDowideit: I've an issue with the configure admin password, anyone could help me change it? Also, I'll rename .adminhtpasswd into .htpasswd-admin, as .ht* are usually protected by apache by default (can't view them) there are dots in /home/trunk.foswiki.org :)	[10:35]
EugenMayer	Babar: do you want to change a passwod of a user in a .htpasswd fiile ?	[10:36]
Babar	no this I know :)	[10:37]
gmc	Babar: you dont put those password file sin documentroot if you're smart anyway!!	[10:37]
Babar	gmc: sure, but 2 security layers are better than one, don't you think? :)	[10:37]
gmc	hmm, not always.. encrypting encrypted content for example usually makes it easier to decrypt by adversaries	[10:38]
EugenMayer	Babar: i even added: @localPerlLibPath = ( "/var/www/www.collaborganize.de/core/lib/CPAN/lib" ); Babar: and the error still appears and INC does not have this path	[10:38]
Babar	that's not 2 security layers, that's twice the same, which is lame, I agree	[10:38]
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Babar	gmc: ok, I "cleaned up" (the path was still pointing to twikifork, which is why I blamed you :)) now I just need the pass, or somebody to use configure on trunk and tell me the @INC value	[10:40]
antenore	Babar: idfw1... we removed idinstall Babar: already a long time ago...	[10:42]
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ktwilight_	Colas__, can you please identify and step into the dungeon?	[10:43]
Babar	antenore: oh ok :) Hum, your subject was linux, afaik, it's still Solaris (9), not Linux :)	[10:44]
antenore	Babar: ops :-O	[10:45]
***	Babar sets mode: +oooo CDot m_ueberall LarsEik Lovwyr Babar sets mode: +oooo uebera\|\|afk EugenMayer AndreU SeanMc Babar sets mode: +oooo alrex021_ Zenopus ktwilight_ broeni Babar sets mode: +oooo antenore Colas__ WikiRingBot vmlemon_ Babar sets mode: +oooo BamieaterX pattdi Rich_Morin BenBeijer Babar sets mode: +oooo MartinCleaver MichaelDaum__ Darokan StephaneLenclu1	[10:46]
Babar	wahou, that's quick on freenode... no penalty? :)	[10:46]
Colas__	ktwilight_, identify?	[10:46]
antenore	Babar: btw... there is not installation on solaris \|-(	[10:47]
Babar	ktwilight_: thanks :p	[10:47]
AndreU	do you know all these people which are now ops?	[10:47]
ktwilight_	:P	[10:47]
Babar	antenore: installation on Solaris?	[10:47]
antenore	so I leave Linux... Linux rocks!!!	[10:47]
EugenMayer	ktwilight_ <- is going to get seriuos problems :)	[10:47]
Babar	AndreU: do you care who's op?	[10:47]
antenore	In the subject form	[10:47]
ktwilight_	haha	[10:47]
AndreU	you seem to	[10:47]
Babar	antenore: but you can edit the form afterwards :) Babar likes op'ing people so they can kick PTh :)	[10:47]
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AndreU	maybe PTh is gtetlow or Darokan	[10:49]
geri	WillNoris:since u have worked with excel spreadsheets,would you mind taking a look at my piece	[10:49]
AndreU	AndreU puts paranoia of again	[10:49]
Babar	AndreU: and it's freenode anyway, chanserv is there for us if we need it	[10:49]
AndreU	lucky we	[10:50]
antenore	Babar: done hei guys... for another project I would need foswiki as well... any planning to support OpenID... in TWiki was a never well answered question (m i wrong???)	[10:50]
Babar	Babar thinks one of wikiring has an openid connector, maybe Sven	[10:54]
antenore	good news for me thx	[10:55]
Babar	Babar thinks* :)*	[10:55]
Colas__	Colas__ encourages antenore to provide an openid connector :-)	[10:58]
CDot	antenore: IIRC Sven has an OpenID connector, but was arguing with the OpenID guys about the spec.	[10:59]
antenore	CDot: So I'll speak with him. thx so much	[11:00]
Babar	Babar remembers like CDot, that's why I was going to ask which openID? Google? yahoo? etc...	[11:00]
antenore	OpenID should be one... then there are OpenID providers... but this is not important	[11:01]
Babar	from what I could read, it is important, as none are following the specs thus they're incompatible with each-other, and most probably with many sites	[11:02]
antenore	well.. I think the important is to follow the specs...	[11:02]
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SvenDowideit	lol	[11:02]
antenore	and to black-list the bads ones	[11:02]
SvenDowideit	openid is quite likely dead	[11:03]
EugenMayer	because its useless! :)	[11:03]
SvenDowideit	google implemented a non-spec version that does not interoperate with openid	[11:03]
antenore	yes this is true	[11:03]
Babar	and they're not the only ones :)	[11:03]
SvenDowideit	and the openid guys left the CPAN modules to rot	[11:03]
antenore	but it's a pity because the idea is really good	[11:03]
SvenDowideit	though someone pointed out that there's an updated one recently released i have very little confidence that they are actually doing it for anything more than company marketing the OpenIDCotrib i wrote had to ship a variation on the 1.1 JanRain openID CPAN module because that one was seriously broken and thus given the level of marketing to actual efforts made by the openid foundation	[11:03]
antenore	well, I'm using OpenID quite a lot... And I don't think I'm the only onre	[11:05]
SvenDowideit	it think its reasonable to ignore them	[11:05]
antenore	one*	[11:05]
SvenDowideit	yes, there are a small number of people using openid alot no argument there	[11:05]
antenore	;-(	[11:05]
SvenDowideit	when i was trying to get more info on the perl support last year, it became clear to me that the openid dev community == a couple of small comanies and very little else small companies that are very very skilled at internet buzz	[11:06]
antenore	better alternatives to host+user+pwd ?	[11:08]
SvenDowideit	even Sun at the height of their marketing of OpenID was not willing to spend any time on makeing OpenID work on Perl tbh, i don't know, while I think it would be nice, i'm not so sure that to many real users feel that way	[11:08]
antenore	ok...	[11:09]
SvenDowideit	heck - that openid survey published the other week had (from what i could see) the most positive response of 'gee, that sounds great, i should look into that'	[11:10]
antenore	can you share it? I'm interested as well	[11:11]
Babar	yeah, but nobody wants to trust others to login their own users that's the flaw of openid	[11:11]
SvenDowideit	i would, if i knew where it was :)	[11:11]
Babar	google will NEVER EVER trust yahoo to login onto any of their service	[11:11]
EugenMayer	Actaully i never would :)	[11:12]
Colas__	well...	[11:12]
SvenDowideit	mmm, i'm not so convinced its a vendor trust issue	[11:12]
antenore	SvenDowideit: np	[11:12]
SvenDowideit	i think its more a user trust issue	[11:12]
Colas__	most business are happy giving their login / passwords to other companies	[11:12]
Babar	Babar think it's both :)	[11:12]
SvenDowideit	antenore, i think i came across it from a survey blog i passed over oh it user mechanical turk	[11:12]
Babar	Colas__: giving? selling you mean :)	[11:12]
SvenDowideit	so you should be able to find it	[11:13]
Colas__	if you have employees using blackberry, you have to give blackberry user+login of employees	[11:13]
EugenMayer	Colas__: yes and not. giving away to risk / responsibilty is one pro. But giving away a potential risk which is THAT high breaks up your whole risk-management. If openID can look at all your critical papers, this aint a risk you can even calculate	[11:13]
SvenDowideit	yup, CEO's are dumb	[11:13]
antenore	I found it: http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2008/11/12/independent-study-on-openid-awareness-using-mechanical-turk/	[11:14]
Babar	Colas__: so blackberry has the login+pas of Barack Obama? :)	[11:14]
EugenMayer	What is C-Level ?	[11:14]
SvenDowideit	cool :)	[11:14]
Babar	EugenMayer: CEO, CIO, CTO, CFO ...	[11:14]
antenore	they call me google ;-) my friends I mean	[11:15]
EugenMayer	Babar: thanks	[11:15]
Colas__	Babar, non-dumb people will set up email accounts for blackberry with a different password than their real password and maybe blackberry has alternative ways to get to your mail	[11:15]
Babar	Colas__: if they can... we're using some hosted exchange solution which is a pain in the ass to configure, and you loose many interesting features, and you pay per user, so... wap push ftw!	[11:16]
antenore	my stomach need gasoline... back in some "fast food" minutes.	[11:17]
Babar	antenore: get a kebab at Mami for me please :)	[11:17]
antenore	Babar: ahahah :-D Babar: I'll but not today... I need something faster cheers	[11:17]
Babar	enjoy	[11:18]
antenore	Babar: merci	[11:19]
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antenore	back	[12:04]
EugenMayer	MichaelDaum__: i have solved the Jquery / TinyMCE problems. Just ping me if you need guidance with NatSkin there	[12:04]
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robman	Colas__ I've added my public key to my foswiki,org personal page and added a comment on the SecurityGroup page saying: "NOTE: GPG/PGP keys are listed on each individuals page. "	[12:10]
SvenDowideit	EugenMayer, http://www.foswiki.org/Development/EugenMayerWouldLikeToCheckIn you're a funny guy you'll love my edit	[12:11]
EugenMayer	SvenDowideit: iam not allowing myself. I mean, i have root access but i wont use them for ME. only for foswiki. So i guess that should be the normal way it should have been done	[12:11]
SvenDowideit	you'll love my edit	[12:12]
robman	hey Sven	[12:12]
EugenMayer	EugenMayer faster you damn browser	[12:12]
SvenDowideit	holla robman	[12:12]
robman	about that xss stuffs	[12:12]
SvenDowideit	that we're not talking about here?	[12:12]
EugenMayer	haha i bet you lie!	[12:12]
robman	robman hears crickets chirp	[12:12]
SvenDowideit	nope i remember doing it on day one	[12:12]
CDot	CDot wails: why is TWiki so f*ing COMPLICATED?	[12:13]
SamHasler	someone's asking a question in #twiki, anyone care to help them out or should I point them to here after an appropriate wait to see if anyone helps them there?	[12:14]
robman	CDot - I feel your pain	[12:14]
EugenMayer	CDot: ask sven	[12:14]
SvenDowideit	just give them peters email address	[12:14]
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EugenMayer	CDot: he did all the easy things! :)	[12:14]
TWikiUser790	hi..my twiki system uses apache auth. so, i look at the .htpass file but i can't see the admin user's entry in the .htpasswd file where is the admin user password, then?	[12:14]
EugenMayer	TWikiUser790: exactly there. if its not there, creat a user	[12:15]
SvenDowideit	admin user is in the lib/LocalSite.cfg and ignore EugenMayer he is wrong	[12:15]
EugenMayer	(with password) ?	[12:15]
SvenDowideit	the twiki admin user is not part of the htpassword system	[12:16]
EugenMayer	SvenDowideit: so in the config is more then the user foswiki looks for in the htpasswd file? or do you think about the password i use when confirming the changes?	[12:16]
SvenDowideit	EugenMayer, that is either not english, or its too hard for me	[12:16]
antenore	if I'm anot wrong it could be is the first time he is accessing as admin.. so he needs to set the password. TWikiUser790: if it's so.. just enter two time the password under the form...	[12:16]
EugenMayer	SvenDowideit:i speak only perfect engllish. It mus be you ;-)	[12:17]
SvenDowideit	EugenMayer, excellent, that means its time for me to goto sleep	[12:17]
Babar	SvenDowideit: got the admin passwod for configure on foswiki?	[12:17]
SvenDowideit	yes	[12:17]
EugenMayer	SvenDowideit: ok, there are 2 sevurity levels for bin/configure . One is in the apache config ( require bla ) and one password is used when you confirm the changes.	[12:17]
SvenDowideit	and if you don't have it, badluck :)	[12:18]
Babar	SvenDowideit: I can change it, try what I want, and put it back :) btw, I've changed the username :)	[12:18]
SvenDowideit	EugenMayer, yes, and only _one_ of those is the admin pass	[12:18]
Babar	and fixed the path in the apache config and changed the name of the file too :)	[12:18]
EugenMayer	SvenDowideit: ok, which one and where is the hash locateed ( i wanna hack 9	[12:18]
SvenDowideit	EugenMayer, you must read the docco i'm trying to help TWikiUser790	[12:19]
EugenMayer	You raccist! :)	[12:19]
SvenDowideit	people with commit access need to know more, so there ;p	[12:19]
EugenMayer	joke	[12:19]
SvenDowideit	SvenDowideit is waiting for the punchline ;p	[12:19]
MichaelDaum	----- punch ----	[12:20]
EugenMayer	_______ punch _____ EugenMayer mine was a lower punch	[12:20]
MichaelDaum	.o0O0o.	[12:21]
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Babar	___ uppercut ---	[12:21]
EugenMayer	MichaelDaum did you solve the tinyMCE problem with natskin ?	[12:21]
MichaelDaum	nearly	[12:21]
EugenMayer	////bear/////	[12:21]
MichaelDaum	just need a way to switch off and on toolbars	[12:21]
EugenMayer	you mean a toogle between your solutions and tinyMCE?=	[12:21]
Babar	EugenMayer: your bug seems to be a bug in the code... admned	[12:22]
MichaelDaum	thats working fine already. there are some additional things that have to be toggled also.	[12:22]
EugenMayer	MichaelDaum: so the Jquery / tinyMCE error does not apear? they are some scope-problems when you use jquery in not "noConflict" mode	[12:23]
MichaelDaum	is there? not seen that.	[12:23]
EugenMayer	MichaelDaum: it can happen that the jquery instance is lost after showing tinyMCE i faced it myself, but my exaple uses jq-dialog-ui to show tinyMCE it could be also related to that	[12:23]
MichaelDaum	let me try	[12:24]
Babar	EugenMayer: can you enter a task please?	[12:24]
EugenMayer	Babar: with the INC problem ?	[12:25]
TWikiUser790	i was able to login as admin user, yesterday but today i cant login as the admin user.	[12:25]
Babar	EugenMayer: yes Error.pm is installed in the system CPAN on foswiki so the local one isn't taken into account so never tested either	[12:25]
EugenMayer	Babar: i do. Create a dummy or a full description ? Babar: "local one"..there is no Error.pm in the foswiki-libs ?	[12:25]
Babar	there are:	[12:26]
MichaelDaum	EugenMayer, no jquery is still there with a loaded tinymce	[12:26]
Babar	core/lib/CPAN/lib/Error.pm, but it's using /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/Error.pm	[12:26]
EugenMayer	MichaelDaum: ok. Do we use "noConflict" ?	[12:27]
MichaelDaum	what is noConflict? MichaelDaum likes no conflict	[12:27]
EugenMayer	Babar: you know, that in my example that the case because ..core/lib/CPAN/lib is not in the INC	[12:27]
MichaelDaum	CDot, where does TinyMCE get its initial window height from?	[12:28]
EugenMayer	MichaelDaum: tinyMCE and jquery ( and prototype and all the others ) bind there instance to $	[12:28]
Babar	yes, but what I'm saying is that it should be	[12:28]
EugenMayer	Babar: ok	[12:28]
Babar	setlib.cfg checks for it and should add it	[12:28]
EugenMayer	thats what i was thinking all the time, stated it here some times MichaelDaum: so you can use $j = jquery.noConflic()	[12:28]
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Babar	check lines 40-55 of setlib.cfg	[12:29]
EugenMayer	MichaelDaum: to bind jquery to a other var, you can choose it. So you avoid conflicts like that. We should really consider doing so. Because if users add prototype or similar we all run into problems MichaelDaum: http://docs.jquery.com/Using_jQuery_with_Other_Libraries hmm add-task is broken i think	[12:29]
MichaelDaum	how do I find out that I have a conflict? I can use firebug's console to speak to jquery just fine even when inside a tinymce wysiwyg edit.	[12:32]
Babar	TWikiUser790: what did you change? :)	[12:33]
EugenMayer	MichaelDaum: firebug makes it even worse. Firebug has bugs which let your instance lose itself and it generates error which are not there. So debugging that thing with firebug is bad 8 use webkit)	[12:33]
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MichaelDaum	EugenMayer, I have never had such problems	[12:33]
EugenMayer	MichaelDaum: but in your case, i mean you say $ is still bind to jquery, so this is good. It might be a jquery-ui-dialog problem then	[12:33]
robman	javascript:alert($) in location bar would tell 8) robman goes back to his box	[12:34]
MichaelDaum	robman, thanks -> creates a new jquery object that is it is bound to: function (selector, context) { return new (jQuery.fn.init)(selector, context); } so....	[12:35]
EugenMayer	MichaelDaum: anyway we should use noConflict in every case because this will avoid problems in the future if people start to add other frameworks	[12:35]
MichaelDaum	sure	[12:36]
EugenMayer	this would mean, we need to rewrite ( replace ) all uses of $ related to jquery to e.g. $j i did it with a simple replace, but watch out, dont touch the jquery libs :) it must stay there	[12:37]
antenore	I had a small note in http://www.foswiki.org/Development/SvnRepository#ProxyServer on how to set a proxy server in svn... with an ancor in the first "How to check out the trunk"	[12:39]
EugenMayer	MichaelDaum: iam trying to create a new task in the Task web but when i get to the editor part, the form is missing. Is that new? I mean, do wen not use forms anymore ( for items ) ?	[12:39]
antenore	add* :-p	[12:39]
Babar	EugenMayer: it happend to me twice, and then it fixed so I never reported it, because I never could re-produce it	[12:39]
EugenMayer	hmm i clear caches, lets see	[12:39]
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EugenMayer	Babar: hmm...it disappered for me also. Strange is the nextwiki under "versions" supposed to be "trunk" ? ( i change that	[12:41]
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EugenMayer	cant find the form :/	[12:44]
Babar	add it later then :)	[12:44]
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TWikiUser790	Babar: i didn't change anything	[12:48]
ArthurClemens	hi all	[12:48]
Babar	hi Arthur	[12:49]
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TWikiUser790	is it possible to set the admin password?	[12:49]
antenore	hi	[12:49]
Babar	TWikiUser790: as we pointed out, which admin password is it Apache asking for one, or TWiki?	[12:49]
TWikiUser790	Babar: when i run the configure script it asks me the admin password	[12:51]
Babar	so it's twiki? you've got a web page with login, password, and 2 buttons? a page, not a pop-up so this password is the one you enterred yesterday :)	[12:52]
TWikiUser790	Babar: no, the window is a popup	[12:53]
Babar	ok, so that's Apache then	[12:53]
TWikiUser790	hmm	[12:53]
EugenMayer	Barbar: http://www.foswiki.org/Tasks/Item230	[12:54]
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Babar	ok, configure is broken, @INC display isn't what @INC is... or it's changed somewhere below	[13:09]
EugenMayer	what the heck internetx just goes down and both nameservers are down also	[13:12]
ArthurClemens	Babar: it seems that configure does not read LocalLib.cfg	[13:14]
EugenMayer	ArthurClemens: but it does use setlib.cfg	[13:15]
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Babar	ArthurClemens: I hacked setlib.cfg to show @INC there, and it's != than what configure shows	[13:15]
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Babar	setlib.cfg reads LocalLib.cfg Babar doesn't understand, and has* to go back to paid work :(*	[13:16]
Lynnwood	i asked before but didn't get any responses and haven't found any other discussions: Does anyone feel it is important to proceed with trademark application for foswiki?	[13:17]
Babar	didn't Sven already did it ? *do	[13:18]
EugenMayer	Sven told us, you did Babar	[13:18]
Babar	did what? take care of the trademark? funny	[13:21]
ktwilight_	ktwilight_ is not laughing :P Lynnwood, i would ask CDot and Lavr, and whoever that's involved in the Association thing.	[13:25]
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MichaelDaum	MichaelDaum has got a first Foswiki client ... let's get this release out	[13:28]
EugenMayer	EugenMayer got also my first Foswiki :) *client iam glad to have them convinced	[13:28]
MichaelDaum	best to go with a foswiki engine as that is backwards compatible. twiki can't run foswiki plugins ...	[13:29]
EugenMayer	yeah it wasnt to hard for me either. (convincing them)	[13:30]
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carlo-	moin everybody	[13:30]
EugenMayer	am i really the only one gets affected by the internetX crash? all your domains are up. moin Carlo	[13:30]
carlo-	hi eugen	[13:31]
EugenMayer	MichaelDaum: oh btw according to wednesday. I had some fun with DB. There first lock catched up fire and i hat a "relaxed" travel back home in "no time" ..so i had no chance get in time to the meeting	[13:32]
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EugenMayer	s/there/their	[13:32]
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Babar	my german friends... why on Earth is Frankfurt-Hahn airport called Frankfurt-Hahn, as it's like 100km away from Frankfurt...	[13:47]
uebera\|\|	So they can sell you cheap tickets... ;)	[13:47]
EugenMayer	Hehe Babar: its just we are not stupid, we fool you :)	[13:48]
ktwilight_	with a ridiculous airport tax :)	[13:48]
EugenMayer	guys i have adjusted the ItemTemplate but i ask myself	[13:48]
Babar	yeah, they sold cheap tickets to my gf's cousin, and now I have a 100+ km detour :)	[13:49]
EugenMayer	who is rendering the "Changeset" links, because its set to foswiki,.org/tract/XXX instead trac.foswiki...	[13:49]
Babar	where?	[13:49]
EugenMayer	Babar: you are welcome. We give you time to travel	[13:49]
Babar	mails are correct	[13:49]
EugenMayer	Babar: ItemView http://www.foswiki.org/Tasks/Item230 click on checkins	[13:49]
Babar	that's InterWiki Babar fixes it	[13:50]
EugenMayer	InterWiki ( could you explain in short )	[13:50]
Babar	http://foswiki.org/TWiki/InterWikis should be self-explanatory	[13:52]
EugenMayer	Babar: cool, good to know	[13:53]
Babar	fixed :)	[13:53]
EugenMayer	great	[13:53]
Babar	happy?	[13:54]
EugenMayer	carlo-: is the iX article available online ?	[13:54]
carlo-	not yet I think I've asked them if I can post it on foswiki	[13:55]
EugenMayer	that would be great	[13:56]
carlo-	...waiting for an answer now	[13:56]
EugenMayer	do we have new MLs?	[13:56]
carlo-	but I'm quite sure its their say - if they do not agree, well... MLs? ah mailing lists dunno	[13:56]
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EugenMayer	how is foswiki written Foswiki ?	[13:59]
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Babar	we already had this conversation :)	[14:00]
Colas__	as a common name fowiki, Foswiki depending on context. But not FosWiki :-)	[14:05]
EugenMayer	did so iam doing some renameing on foswiki.org can someone clear the search-cache? (how to clear it?)	[14:07]
darokan	Someone knows the user name and password for the JeOSvm?	[14:12]
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carlo-	TWikiAdmin TWikiAdmin for the web interface root root for the VM user user for the samba at least this was the setup for the debian VM	[14:19]
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carlo-	got the answer from iX: Ihr Verdacht ist richtig. Weder Autoren noch andere dürfen Artikel(auszüge) auf einem Website veröffentlichen. Einzige (kostenpflichtige) Ausnahme ist, sich vom Verlag die Genehmigung für eine PDF-Veröffentlichung geben zu lassen. Sorry, aber wir sind nun einmal primär ein Printmedium..	[14:21]
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antenore	http://blog.debianizzati.org/2008/11/21/foswiki-lerede-veramente-libero-di-twiki/ it's in italian...	[14:39]
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antenore	it's the italian debian community	[14:40]
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sklus	hey there	[14:40]
antenore	hi	[14:41]
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darokan	When I start the VM, I only get into a console and not a desktop interface. How come I there? the user name and the password are twiki twiki it is ubuntu ...	[14:43]
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pattdi	darokan: there is no desktop, only command line	[14:56]
darokan	How can I watch TWiki?	[14:57]
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pattdi	the vm has apache running in it just browse to the ip address of the vm and you should see it	[14:57]
Babar	just really great, now we're even doing helpdesk for twiki.net... that's a line we weren't crossing before.	[14:58]
pattdi	Babar: ?	[14:59]
sklus	sklus looking around for Lavr	[14:59]
ktwilight_	it's ok, Babar is there do free support!	[14:59]
darokan	how can i see the ip from vm?	[15:01]
pattdi	ifconfig eth0	[15:01]
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darokan	there i must type in ubuntu?	[15:02]
pattdi	yes	[15:02]
darokan	"device not found"	[15:02]
Colas__	darokan, where did you download your twiki VM?	[15:03]
darokan	from fosiki.com	[15:03]
Colas__	I meant, the URL	[15:03]
darokan	http://fosiki.com/TWikiVMJeOS/ are there others?	[15:04]
Colas__	there are others - but this is not to say you should change, I never tried them - just to be sure	[15:05]
ktwilight_	darokan, ifconfig what does it say?	[15:06]
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darokan	Link encap: Local Loopback inet: addr: 127.0.0.1 Mask: 255.0.0.0	[15:07]
ktwilight_	looks liek your network is not up at all ifconfig -a darokan, ^	[15:07]
darokan	As is the same as before and there are a device "eth1"	[15:09]
ktwilight_	ifconfig eth1 up	[15:11]
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Babar	ah ok, sorry.	[15:12]
darokan	"permission denied"	[15:12]
Babar	Babar thought he downloaded the TWiki.Net VM, not Sven's	[15:12]
ktwilight_	ktwilight_ thought so too darokan, sudo ifconfig eth1 up	[15:12]
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darokan	and then?	[15:14]
ktwilight_	then ifconfig eth1 :)	[15:15]
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Darokan_	sorry, my Firefox has crashed	[15:20]
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darokan	Where can I find another TWiki VM? twiki.org?	[15:23]
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ktwilight_	darokan, not working?	[15:26]
darokan	he asked me for a twikipassword i typed a password in ... and typed again ifconfig eth1 up ... -> "permission denied"	[15:27]
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Babar	darokan: this VM is the best one you can get, honest :) (for now)	[15:30]
darokan	ok	[15:30]
ktwilight_	sudo ifconfig eth1 up	[15:30]
antenore	I go... have a good weekend cys	[15:30]
ktwilight_	c-ya antenore darokan, sudo ifconfig eth1 up	[15:31]
darokan	nothing happens	[15:31]
ktwilight_	that's normal	[15:32]
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darokan	ok	[15:32]
ktwilight_	now try again, whatever you're doing	[15:32]
darokan	permission denied	[15:33]
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pattdi	has anyone else had luck with this vm? I get the same problem as darokan even when my other vm's are fine	[15:34]
Babar	Babar downloads it :)	[15:34]
ktwilight_	Babar to the rescue :)	[15:34]
Babar	yeah, my paid job is so boring these days...	[15:35]
ktwilight_	haha	[15:35]
pattdi	time to pick up the kids again I look forward to finding the fix in the logs ;)	[15:35]
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carlo-	darokan: did you try user: 'root' pw: 'root' ?	[15:40]
Colas__	mmm ubuntu: you cannot log root	[15:41]
darokan	for what?	[15:41]
Colas__	you must use sudo, and thus use your password	[15:41]
carlo-	it was the pw for the debian VM from twiki.org	[15:41]
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Colas__	oops my fault, missed ans episode :-)	[15:42]
darokan	for the first login "twiki-vm login"?	[15:42]
Babar	as the VM is upside-down, it takes time to download	[15:42]
darokan	when i typed root root ... "Login incorrect"	[15:42]
carlo-	did you try TWikiAdmin TWikiAdmin?	[15:43]
darokan	the same ... login incorrect	[15:44]
carlo-	:-(	[15:45]
Lavr	sklus asked for me Hello everyone. Weekend! Yeah	[15:45]
carlo-	are we talking about the fosikiTWiki VM?	[15:45]
darokan	yes	[15:45]
Babar	yes, we are indeed damned, week-end already,? And I have 2 word documents to write :(	[15:45]
Lavr	[08:53] <CDot> Lavr: on legals; did you have the conversation with that person on Monday? I talked to him Sunday. And emailed him yesterday.	[15:47]
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Lavr	CDot. Yes I had missed that instruction about CompareRev... Just added the setting. And it works!!! That removes my last concern against using trunk for 1.0.0.	[15:51]
Colas__	mmm good thing for the popularization of the term "wiki". Google announces its "searchwiki" http://www.search-value.com/blog/google/google-searchwiki/	[15:51]
CDot	Lavr: gosh, you are easy to please. Now we need to worry about Sven..... CDot isn't sure yet, need lots more testing of different plugins/extensions	[15:52]
Lavr	Just the thought that I do not need to rename more in Release04x02 and can focus on ONE makes me feel better.	[15:53]
CDot	starting with PublishContrib (just going in the oven; 15mins at 220 C + 1 bar overpressure should do it....)	[15:53]
Lavr	I am sure most of the extensions problems will be with the compatibility and Foswiki vs TWiki name space. You have proven that the binary script problem can be resolved. And the namespace problem we would also have on Release branch	[15:54]
CDot	agreed would like to know more about FAS behaviour though, esp when run in command line scripts FSA e.g. mailnotify	[15:54]
Lavr	Ah yes we have those also.	[15:55]
CDot	it's a difficult thing to unit test, unfortunately	[15:55]
Babar	statistics? rest for kino update? :)	[15:55]
CDot	Babar: you are on the right lines there	[15:56]
Babar	Babar jsut cat the foswiki crontab	[15:56]
CDot	without a test site running trunk, i get nervous	[15:56]
Lavr	http://merlin.lavrsen.dk/trunk/bin/view/System/InstalledPlugins is from trunk now. Note the plugins that do not work that I am trying. ActionTracker is one. History fails for some strange reason. History I will start looking at.	[15:57]
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Lavr	If nothing else it will work when I name space change it. But I want to see why it fails before I rename.	[15:58]
Babar	CDot: without? you don't like http://trunk.foswiki.org? :)	[15:58]
Lavr	trunk.foswiki.org just immidiately asks for username and password	[15:59]
Babar	use yours from foswiki.org	[15:59]
Lavr	I tried. Must have mistyped. Came in now	[15:59]
darokan	i must away ... i'm back on monday ...	[16:01]
Lavr	Why does configure keep on saying that one has changed the {AuthRealm}	[16:01]
darokan	wish you a nice weekend	[16:01]
Lavr	?	[16:01]
Babar	Lavr: what configure?	[16:02]
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Lavr	trunk configure On my own trunk.	[16:02]
Babar	oh ok so no idea configure on trunk works great	[16:02]
Lavr	When I run configure and hit next without changing anything it says that {AuthRealm} has changed.	[16:03]
Babar	CDot: @INC displayed from configure seems dubious to me.	[16:03]
Lavr	Hmmm. removing a newline from the {AuthRealm} value fixes it.	[16:04]
CDot	Babar: no-one told me about trunk.foswiki.org, and my spidey-sense isn't working today	[16:05]
Babar	Thou shall not edit the LocalSite.cfg by hand! :)	[16:05]
Lavr	In the old TWiki.spec there was no such new line.	[16:06]
CDot	Dunno why it's there now	[16:06]
Lavr	I'll remove it	[16:06]
CDot	should be identical	[16:06]
Babar	CDot: CDot not reading your mail are you? :) Koen and Sven talked about it yesterday, and I fixed it last night	[16:06]
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Babar	which showed we need to 'svn propset svn:keywords "Revision Date"' a few files	[16:08]
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Lavr	When does someone fix that making a new Tasks item without being authenticated means no form.	[16:08]
Babar	oh, it's without being authenticated?! lavr++ we wondered with Eugen why we had this sometimes, but couldn't figure it out open a task so we can fix the tasks :)	[16:08]
Lavr	I believe there is already a task on it. Like there is a task to fix the site so it looks good in IE6. It will sucks in IE6. And we still have no Wysiwyg editor. Visitors that come to foswiki.org get a very poor impression in my view.	[16:10]
MichaelDaum	there is a png fix installed, but it does not work on the provider as there seems to be a mine.type missing in the apache config I am using the png fix from http://www.twinhelix.com/css/iepngfix/ anybody there with shell access? could someone add AddType text/x-component .htc to pub's .htaccess gmc, SvenDowideit?	[16:14]
CDot	Babar: which one of the 1,306 unread emails is that, I wonder....?	[16:18]
Lavr	Unless the website is badly configured it should not be using .htaccess Unless it is a shared host site One should always use Apache config files and disable searching for .htaccess files. It slows down a webserver looking for .htaccess in all subdirectories at each page view.	[16:18]
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gmc	MichaelDaum: wassup	[16:25]
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gmc	MichaelDaum_: wassup?	[16:27]
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MichaelDaum	not sure why ie6 does not interpret http://foswiki.org/pub/TWiki/NatSkin/iepngfix.htc it does on localhost but not so on foswiki can you check the access.logs for this file on foswiki, gmc� vmplayer just ate my shift key	[16:27]
gmc	MichaelDaum: sure one mooment	[16:28]
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MichaelDaum	maybe it is just 403	[16:29]
grim_fandango	Hi folks (AndreU)	[16:29]
AndreU	hi	[16:29]
grim_fandango	Folks: I'm trying to do a nested search where certain topics from the nested search ARE NOT mentioned in META fields in topics from the outer search. Is this even possible or am I barking up the wrong tree? Any guidance would be greatly appreciated as I'm having some small amount of trouble working up the correct %SEARCH{}% string.	[16:29]
gmc	MichaelDaum: slow connnection here.. hotel full of geeks	[16:30]
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AndreU	grim, what do you mean by "not mentioned"?	[16:31]
grim_fandango	We're building a little hardware inventory in the wiki using forms	[16:31]
AndreU	you have a pastebin with an example?	[16:31]
grim_fandango	Not yet	[16:31]
MichaelDaum	sorry have to reboot xwindows to get a decent keyboard again. back in a sec.	[16:32]
AndreU	this should be possible	[16:32]
grim_fandango	There is a form for each piece of equipment	[16:32]
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grim_fandango	We've set up another form to represent a "deployment of equipment" (e.g., groupings of equipment items along with some other info)	[16:32]
AndreU	jepp	[16:33]
grim_fandango	So I'd like the deployment form to list equipment items but NOT those that have already been mentioned in other deployments. Make sense? The list of items available for deployment should only be those that have not already been deployed.	[16:33]
AndreU	ah, you want to reduce the result	[16:33]
grim_fandango	Bingo Getting the initial list of items to put in the deployment form is easy	[16:33]
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grim_fandango	I've got basic %SEARCH{}% stuff down pat	[16:34]
gmc	MichaelDaum: iepngfix is serverd just fine it seems oh sorry no.. 304	[16:34]
MichaelDaum	what is 304? that's okay means "not modified"	[16:35]
gmc	yeah its okayt... 200ś and 304ś	[16:36]
AndreU	I am not sure, maybe you can use the nested search for putting in some clever style="display:none"	[16:36]
gmc	ok i'm off now	[16:36]
MichaelDaum	ah I got the problem	[16:36]
grim_fandango	The initial search looks like %SEARCH{"HardwareInventoryItem[0-9]{4,4}$" topic="HardwareInventoryItem*" scope="topic" regex="on" nototal="on" nosearch="on" format="$topic" separator=", " excludetopic="HardwareInventoryItemForm"}%	[16:36]
MichaelDaum	gmc thansk	[16:36]
AndreU	http://pastebin.com	[16:37]
grim_fandango	yeah, sorry	[16:37]
Colas__	grim_fandango, you can also do it the unix way make a shell script doing as complex a query as you want, make it output result in wiki or html	[16:38]
AndreU	heh	[16:38]
Colas__	and just %INCLUDE the url of this cgi script shell, or python or perl or .... it is MUCH easier than struggling with %SEARCH on non-simple cases	[16:39]
Lavr	Maybe try the TWiki/Foswiki way first. grim_fandango which version of TWiki do you run? 4.2?	[16:40]
AndreU	lets try it and get the rest out of foswiki	[16:40]
Colas__	and you take opportunity of the killer feature of foswiki: pages are text files	[16:40]
grim_fandango	Lavr: 4.2 (TWiki version - I have not switched yet)	[16:40]
AndreU	shame on you	[16:41]
MichaelDaum	png fix for ie6 working on foswiki	[16:41]
AndreU	:-)	[16:41]
Lavr	grim - you cannot switch yet. We are working full speed on the Foswiki release but you will need to wait a few more weeks.	[16:41]
Colas__	if you are not used to srripting, forget what I said	[16:41]
AndreU	cool Michael	[16:41]
Colas__	but if you are...	[16:41]
grim_fandango	Lavr: I don't have time for an upgrade this quarter anyway, maybe in the new year.	[16:41]
Lavr	In 4.2 you should take advantage of the type of search called query.	[16:41]
grim_fandango	QuerySearch?	[16:41]
Lavr	With query search on form fields you can do advanced AND and OR. And the syntax is much easier than regex.	[16:42]
Colas__	plus with scripting you get... DEBUGGING!	[16:42]
AndreU	MichaelDaum, you and Carlo did a great job on the new skin! its getting even better every day :-)	[16:42]
grim_fandango	Lavr, thanks I'll give that a shot. So no %SEARCH{}% at all or am I combining the two?	[16:43]
Colas__	Lavr, easier only if you do not know a script language	[16:43]
grim_fandango	Oh, I'm an idiot ;-) Nevermind	[16:43]
Lavr	It is still %SEARCH but just type="query"	[16:43]
grim_fandango	Right Yeah, QuerySearch is definately the way to go, I'm reading the topic now Thanks very much!	[16:44]
Colas__	of course %SEARCH{ is mandatory if you want co-workers to adapt/copy what you did	[16:44]
Lavr	Colas_ you geek ;-)	[16:44]
grim_fandango	Yeah, I'm not in to doing shell scripting for this - I think this should be accomplished in the wiki itself. It's really not that complex.	[16:44]
Lavr	I bet your pocket calculator has cost more than your wedding ring.	[16:44]
grim_fandango	haha	[16:45]
Colas__	you bet	[16:45]
Lavr	Mine too	[16:45]
Colas__	my first pocket calculator was $150 in 1975 actually I nearly wetted my pant when I saw my cousin mecanical calculator http://www.vcalc.net/cu.htm and... we didnt have wedding rings (they are not mandatory :-)	[16:45]
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grim_fandango	Question: can I do a NOT query with a list of topic names as the values where the list is returned from another %SEARCH{}% ?	[16:49]
Colas__	I think so, in the excluded="" parameter I guess	[16:50]
grim_fandango	Not quite what I want	[16:50]
Colas__	"It's really not that complex." = famous last words :-)	[16:50]
grim_fandango	haha I want a query where the values of a certain form field are not one of a list of values At least, that's the idea, I think.	[16:50]
Colas__	basically yes. either use excluded="" or do a subsearch in format="" with format="$percntSEARCH{...}$percnt" note the ubergeekiness of the $percent "abbreviation" by one letter	[16:52]
sklus	sklus looking for Kenneth	[16:53]
Lavr	Hi sklus	[16:53]
Colas__	you can also use %CALC expressions combined with %SEARCH	[16:54]
sklus	hello	[16:54]
Colas__	and the, you will remember my advice on using shell :-) bye all	[16:54]
sklus	i am the guy who's put the post on the mailinglist about documentation ;-) bye colas you put in your response that we might discuss conceptual things here remember?	[16:55]
Lavr	Yeah I remember clearly :-)	[16:56]
sklus	As what I figured out up to now, the standard docs are always included with the installation packet... and shall be moved to support web, right?	[16:57]
Lavr	Nope.	[16:57]
sklus	some additional docus for admins and developers are maintained online. ok so let's start a 0 :-)	[16:58]
Lavr	The documents in System web in the distribution stays in System web also on foswiki.org On twiki.org the TWiki web was an awful mix of the standard distribution docs and extra docs.	[16:58]
sklus	right. i remember looking for things always	[16:59]
Lavr	It made it a nightmare to update the TWiki.org site and we ended up with all those stupid TWiki04x01 TWiki04x02 webs etc	[16:59]
sklus	ok. so core docs go to System. I like the idea of splitting them up a little according to type of users	[17:00]
Lavr	So on Foswiki.org we want the System web to be the same as the distribution System web. And the extra supplementary documents go TWO places.	[17:00]
sklus	that would be?	[17:01]
Lavr	The documents needed for developers go to Development. And the documents that helps installers and users go to Support web. It is best with examples one moment http://www.foswiki.org/Support/SettingFileAccessRightsLinuxUnix is a typical Support web Supplemental Document. It helps an installer to get the access rights right on a Unix installation. We link to it from the INSTALL document which comes with the distribution package. Remember that local System documents cannot be read until you have your Foswiki installed and running. In Support web we will have an index topic called InstallingOnSpecificPlatforms. I have not created it yet. There is a link from SupplentalDocuments.	[17:01]
sklus	correct	[17:04]
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Lavr	It will contain links to topic that describes how to install on RedHat, on debian, on Ubuntu, on Gentoo etc etc. These all belong to Support web and I hope that we can get some good ways of finding these documents from FAQs and similar topics. In Development web we put documents that are used by developers. Example http://www.foswiki.org/Development/UnitTests	[17:04]
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sklus	sounds good to me. this way we have only docs in the download package that refer to "How do I edit a topic", etc. that refer to things you do once foswiki is running admin stuff is online and developers, too, because it is very specific. Maybe just links from local docs to online so that the reference is there.	[17:07]
Lavr	We also have the installation document there and some admin topics that the admin uses to install further features. Like how to modify your skin and how to notify about changes etc. So we have admin docs in System web as well. The idea of the SupplementalDocuments was mainly that they were more dynamic. Being on a public official wiki they were updated regularly. The distribution topics are frozen when you ship Foswiki. This also means that when you have a 3 year old Foswiki, your docs match your version. It does not help reading about SEARCH for TWiki 4.2 when you still run 4.0 that did not have query search for example. I think the amount of documentation we have in System web today it right. We can improve them a lot but I do not feel we should add or remove much. On Foswiki.org we need to make much better documentation in Support - like FAQs - like summarizing common support questions into new supplental documents.	[17:08]
sklus	maybe not add or remove, but definitivly rewrite a lot of stuff. There are like three or for topics on editing topics that e.g. should refer to ONE. This way, keeping them up to date is easier.	[17:12]
Lavr	Example. Installation of Foswiki on the shared host Dreamhost is a specialized but very good Supplemental Document. But too special to go in System and in the distribution. Yes. But watch out. Some are beginners tutorials. And others are helper reference topics that you can open from the help text in edit mode. They suit very different purposes.	[17:13]
sklus	yep - right. I think WikiSyntax is one of them.	[17:14]
Lavr	But some could be merged yes. We also have some real garbage. Try and look at this page. http://www.lavrsen.dk/twiki/bin/view/TWiki/AdminToolsCategory Look at the section "All Admin Tools Category topics" This is a search for topics that have been marked as Admin topics. Look at the autogenerated helper text right after the link. Totally random useless crap.	[17:14]
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Lavr	That is a simple thing to do something about that would increase the quality of these Category topics	[17:17]
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sklus	correct	[17:18]
Lavr	The Plugins section below is much better because it is created from the one liner description setting so it is much better quality text. He. A text like: WebLeftBar: " warn "off"}% nop ...	[17:18]
sklus	:-D	[17:18]
Lavr	" warn "off"}% nop ... really informative ;-)	[17:18]
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Lavr	If you look at http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/TWiki/SupplementalDocument	[17:19]
sklus	depends how advanced the user is :-DD	[17:19]
Lavr	Then you see quite many links to topics. Half of them are just a topic with a tag cloud and some formatted search. Those topics are in my view useless and should not be copied over or refactored. Others are very good documents. I believe good index pages are made manually where the links are carefully grouped and navigation from top and down is always "mutually exclusive". Ie. you are never in doubt which link to follow to get closer to your goal.	[17:19]
sklus	totally agree to that. a machine is not of much help there.	[17:22]
Lavr	I have to go now. My wife is waiting for me to fetch Pizza. Any last minute question?	[17:22]
sklus	focusing a moment on docs included in the download package: where should refactoring take place without touching the original docs? at least not until something is figured out and completed?	[17:22]
Lavr	For the System web docs you need to have a subversion checkout running so you can edit the topics and check them in again.	[17:23]
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Lavr	We currently do not have a mechanism working that enabled editing on Foswiki and have them uploaded to subversion. It is on the wish list.	[17:24]
sklus	Thing is, if I do that, there will be moments when the docs are only half-way	[17:24]
Lavr	The way it works is that you run a local subversion checkout. You can run a live site from a subversion checkout using something called a pseudo-install	[17:25]
sklus	working on a temporary, personal svn branch might be a solution.	[17:25]
Lavr	This is mine: http://merlin.lavrsen.dk/trunk/bin/view/Main/WebHome	[17:25]
sklus	i have a svn running on my laptop	[17:25]
Lavr	Then you simply start editing the topics you want to improve. When you are done you do the "svn commit" and it gets uploaded". You have to remember though to hack the file so the Editor name in meta is "ProjectContributor".	[17:26]
grim_fandango	Well, I've got the excludetopic="" with a nested search but it's not working (yet) http://pastebin.com/m1f8f0dff	[17:26]
Lavr	I tend to edit the topics in a text editor instead of Foswiki to avoid having to edit the meta. And then just view the result now and then on the Foswiki.	[17:27]
grim_fandango	Thoughts anyone?	[17:28]
sklus	as long as nobody minds that the trunk is a little mess for some time :-)	[17:28]
Lavr	I need to run now. I will be on IRC a lot this weekend.	[17:28]
sklus	alright. enjoy you pizza	[17:28]
Lavr	The trunk is a BIG mess at the moment. Lots of things not completed. Lots of "TWiki" that needs to be changed to "Foswiki" and in some cases "%WIKITOOLNAME% See you around. BYe	[17:29]
sklus	and a lot of backup and invisible files. cu bye	[17:29]
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EugenMayer	hello	[17:30]
sklus	hello and bye :-)	[17:34]
EugenMayer	Babar: it seems like the item http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item230 has been fixed partially	[17:34]
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EugenMayer	i can now acccess configure, but it tells me that Foswiki.pm could not be loaded	[17:34]
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Babar	been fixed by what?	[17:35]
EugenMayer	lets look at the changsets	[17:35]
ktwilight_	upgrade sucks without an upgrade script ktwilight_ just finished upgrading WP i hope FW won't be a nightmare too :)	[17:35]
Babar	hum, upgrade script hasn't been written yet :)	[17:36]
EugenMayer	Babar: maybe you? http://trac.foswiki.org/changeset/843	[17:36]
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Babar	hum, it didn't change anything on the foswiki installation (the @INC is still the same in configure)	[17:37]
ktwilight_	hey Jaquin :)	[17:37]
EugenMayer	Babar: nothing else has been related to that problem, looking at the checkins I guess thats why i still get the error for Foswiki.pm	[17:37]
ktwilight_	could i tempt you to check out http://foswiki.org/Community/DocumentationTaskTeam ?	[17:37]
EugenMayer	it is still not able to fine Error.pm	[17:37]
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EugenMayer	CDot: are you arround?	[17:39]
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Babar	EugenMayer: hum... where do you have the Error.pm error?	[17:40]
EugenMayer	"i dont have it somewhere" i use 100% not customized trunk so i have it where you have it and that is lib/CPAN/lib/Error.pm -- find -name "Error.pm" :( ./Foswiki/Infix/Error.pm ./CPAN/lib/Error.pm (from ./lib) "inFix" ? what is that	[17:44]
Babar	nothing you should worry about :) but the CPAN/lib starts to bother me... can I tweak your setlib.cfg? :) Babar doesn't want to commit that, as it's temporary	[17:50]
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grim_fandango	Weird. My %SEARCH{}% works OUTSIDE of a form table but will not work inside of it.	[17:55]
	I get "Deep recursion on subroutine errors" when I try and use the %SEARCH% inside a form table. What gives?	[18:02]
***	EugenMayer is now known as EugenMayer`aw	[18:09]
CDot	grim_fandango: that's a known bug CDot looks for the report	[18:09]
grim_fandango	Sucks, too: I can't seem to get around it I've tried just about everthing, too...	[18:10]
StephaneLenclu1	How do I get the number of hit using formatted search? $total ? could not find it in the doc	[18:11]
CDot	grim_fandango: I think it's unavoidable	[18:11]
grim_fandango	CDot: If it's any help, here's what I'm doing http://pastebin.com/d2ecc366b	[18:11]
CDot	it is because to present the search, you have to open the form definition, which requires you to do the search, which presents the search cogito ergo constipato	[18:11]
grim_fandango	ha, yes, makes sense	[18:12]
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grim_fandango	So bascially, I'm screwed if I want to do any sort of nested search within a form? Even if that nested search explicitly excludes said form?	[18:12]
CDot	gosh, that's almost identical to the report of the same bug i was looking at before. Was it you who reported it?	[18:13]
grim_fandango	No	[18:13]
CDot	I found a fairly simple fix but now i can't find the report any more	[18:13]
grim_fandango	Figures ;-)	[18:13]
CDot	it's been a long day	[18:14]
StephaneLenclu1	What about adding a 'description' field to the package form?	[18:14]
CDot	StephaneLenclu1: there is already a SHORTDESCRIPTION in the package topic	[18:15]
StephaneLenclu1	Can I extract that from a formatted search? Can I some how access a variable defined in topic from another one?	[18:16]
grim_fandango	CDot: But this only happens with nested searches, right?	[18:17]
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CDot	grim_fandango: when a search produces a result that requires the reading of the form definition topic, IIRC CDot can't find that damn report it was reported against TWiki; maybe it's still in their tracker found it! http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki4/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/Item6082 CDot wonders why it isn't in the Foswiki tracker hmmm, that's worrying	[18:19]
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WillNorris	WillNorris reading scrollback for JeOS, the root "password" is: login in as twiki/twiki sudo su -	[18:32]
grim_fandango	Hmmm.. I don't see a fix anywhere, there, CDot Am I missing something?	[18:33]
CDot	grim_fandango: well, you are missing a simple example that I could use to reproduce the problem I checked in the code, and there's a testcase for the problem I saw before, and it passes, so I must have fixed it. though i see the TWiki unit tests are still failing the testcase. Interesting.	[18:36]
grim_fandango	Sorry, you want a simpler example?	[18:40]
CDot	yes please one where I don't have to create any more topics hmmm, ok, that unit test passes on Foswiki trunk should be interesting to see if your test does as well CDot can't spend any more time on this tonight; attach a test to Item6082, and I'll take a look in the morning.	[18:40]
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Babar	WillNorris: sudo -s :p	[18:54]
WillNorris	does that read in all of the shell's startup files?	[18:55]
Babar	the :p? Probably not -s The -s (shell) option runs the shell specified by the SHELL environment variable if it is set or the shell as specified in passwd(5). sudo su - is a non-sense (but I do it often too :) either sudo bash -login (but that's longer), or sudo -s (but on some platform it doesn't work :)) Babar is just very picky	[18:56]
WillNorris	so, sudo su - would be the most universally compatible way?	[18:57]
Babar	but that will launch root's $SHELL, so you'll end up with zsh on fosiki :) +w damned, I broke Sven's fingers, now he may break mine	[18:58]
WillNorris	ah	[18:59]
Babar	with sudo bash -login, you'll save one fork, and you'll end up with bash Babar gets his John Travolta panoply... sorry, only have the "Saturday night fever" one, and the "Pulp fiction" one, no "Look who's talking" :(	[19:01]
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grim_fandango	Crap. So basically I can't do what I want due to this bug. Ugh. If only $pattern would search META content	[19:21]
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owner	hi all	[19:38]
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grim_fandango	How do I turn on debug mode for TWiki?	[20:19]
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MS-	Hi people	[20:37]
WillNorris	howdy	[20:45]
MartinCleaver	Is there a view in Tasks web to show things that were fixed in SVN since 4.2.3 ?	[20:57]
	There have been so many changes... is there going to be a FosWiki 4.2.4 before the grand-renaming version? We need a name for the DebianPackage, CentosPackage etc. Should we call this OsInstallerPackage ? in TopicClassification on http://foswiki.org/Extensions/PackageForm ?	[21:07]
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ArthurClemens	good evening	[21:17]
MartinCleaver	MartinCleaver leaves http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item6126 for SvenDowideit Hi alrex021_ Hi ArthurClemens, even ArthurClemens: who can install plugins on FosWiki.org?	[21:25]
ArthurClemens	hi martin, saw you had a question about the blog addon?	[21:26]
MartinCleaver	Oh, yes. I was trying to reconcile which to use, BlogAddOn vs. BlogPlugin	[21:26]
ArthurClemens	f.o: don't know. both have their merits	[21:26]
MartinCleaver	And generally wingeing that two puts admins in a point of pain to decide	[21:27]
ArthurClemens	blogaddon is just a simple twiki based form app, built with topics only the addon topic says "simple"	[21:28]
MartinCleaver	Y, its a pure FosWikiApp Belongs in the Apps web	[21:28]
ArthurClemens	meaning almost no features you would expect yes still I would like to maintain it in SVN	[21:28]
MartinCleaver	Y, I kinda arrived at the conclusion I would try BlogPlugin first Hmm. interesting point. I remember this dilemma web vs. svn, from a few years back	[21:29]
ArthurClemens	I did try blogplugin first as well, but I needed something simple	[21:29]
MartinCleaver	looks like SVN + Web is not going away. I decided to try BlogAddOn. And arrived at the fact that the Debian install stuff 1) doesn't install dependencies 2) some packages it's dependencies need aren't available in SvenDowideit's Debian apt-get	[21:29]
ArthurClemens	hold on...	[21:31]
MartinCleaver	I ask about Plugins installed on fw.org because I think we need http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/AutoViewTemplatePlugin installed. It's so useful that I want it made part of FW.	[21:32]
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MartinCleaver	MartinCleaver has to leave shortly. 5pm appointment.	[21:33]
ArthurClemens	blogaddon does not have any dependencies, so I am surprised about that ArthurClemens needs to talk with partner now	[21:34]
MartinCleaver	BlogPlugin has a ton needed for BlogAddOn sorry BlogAddOn has a ton needed for BlogUp too much confusionio	[21:37]
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MartinCleaver	MartinCleaver posts http://foswiki.org/Development/AddAutoViewTemplatePlugintoFosWiki	[21:44]
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............. (idle for 1h3mn)
SvenDowideit	MS-, gee, i've not had this much fun talking to an eliza bot in years!	[22:55]
MS-	heh It's a little strange only seeing one side of the conversation :)	[23:01]
SvenDowideit	there isn't much signal in the few other lines i figured the best way to test eliza was to type lots fast, seems to confuse him	[23:02]
MS-	Didn't expect there to be, so setting the ignore flag seemed a sensible idea. Don't tend to do that very often, but often precludes an argument getting out of hand.	[23:03]
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SvenDowideit	i guess - i'm not sure how much of an argument you get with someone that had only one thing to say	[23:03]
MS-	indeed	[23:04]
SvenDowideit	it must be really hard to listen in to conversations between people that know each other	[23:04]
MS-	that's very true.	[23:04]
SvenDowideit	though as a truely innapropriate listener-iner, i find it fascinating	[23:05]
MS-	Mind you, it's also very commonly recognisable	[23:05]
SvenDowideit	ida think it ya	[23:06]
MS-	You know where people turn round and say "so, how long have you two been married" whilst listening to two people bitch at each other the way that people who've known each other for far too long can do possibly mixing too many metaphors there :)	[23:06]
SvenDowideit	yeah, that sort of thing makes me smile, you can feel the love in the venom	[23:07]
MS-	heh	[23:07]
WillNorris	LOL anyone seen "black books" ?	[23:08]
SvenDowideit	y, my sis loves it	[23:10]
WillNorris	the description i've read reminded me of fawlty towers	[23:10]
SvenDowideit	i didn't get into it for some reason :)	[23:10]
MS-	WillNorris: I've always missed it	[23:10]
WillNorris	ah	[23:10]
MS-	Though it's got bill bailey in and it's good	[23:10]
WillNorris	cool can't wait, i'm 72% downloaded also recently got spaced	[23:10]
MS-	Clerks meets Fawlty Towers in a book store is probably an odd/apt description at a guess	[23:11]
SvenDowideit	evil evil !!	[23:11]
WillNorris	and state of play MS-: sounds like heaven! heh	[23:11]
.... (idle for 19mn)
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.... (idle for 19mn)
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