#foswiki 2012-02-06,Mon

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WhoWhatWhen
SvenDowideitSvenDowideit hands pharvey a coffee [00:01]
pharveyb00 [00:01]
SvenDowideitand considers going and getting another too
ola :)
[00:01]
pharveyhow is your RFC madness going [00:02]
SvenDowideitvery slowly :) [00:02]
pharveypharvey tries to remember what sparked that line of inquiry
oh, fixing rest
or at least, making it less unuseful
pharvey glumly ponders the state of CasLoginContrib
[00:02]
BabarBabar watches the superbowl [00:06]
SvenDowideitSvenDowideit giggles and goes back to centos [00:06]
pharveypharvey wishes people would writeWarning rather than print STDERRR >:( [00:06]
SvenDowideitSvenDowideit recons you should just commit a full s/ print STDERR/writeWarning/g
seriously
i've had how long to do something about that and 'blah blah blah'
[00:07]
pharveysome places in core do need STDERR, where it's early enough that logging might not be available
but plugins shouldn't be doing print STDERR, but maybe that's just a personal preference
[00:09]
SvenDowideitnope
its a failing in our API
[00:10]
pharveyyou know what I think would encourage it [00:10]
SvenDowideityears ago i would look for the 'loging' API call
but after a while i gave up
personally i'd love my error logging API to also hook into the messaging api of the GUI debugger i'm using
[00:10]
pharveymy fantastical code that shows the last 2 pieces of the namespace hierarchy, the sub name + line number
of the caller.
[00:11]
SvenDowideitgiggle
bbiab :/
[00:11]
pharveybut again, people might hate that. [00:11]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to Release01x01: http://git.io/Xdl9Rg
[foswiki/Release01x01] Item11383: its 2012 now, not 2009 :) - SvenDowideit
[00:18]
***GithubBot has left [00:18]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11383 [ Item11383: General documentation task for 1.1.5 release ] [00:18]
kip3fhi all, I'm looking at ArthurClemens response to http://foswiki.org/Development/AddSWITCHMacro and I'm a bit confused ... I thought that there could only be one default section? I'm referring to:
%CASE{
"'X'"
"ingroup 'Y'" then="'X' is in group 'Y'"
"ingroup 'Z'" then="'X' is in group 'Z'"
otherwise="'X' is in neither group"
}%
[00:22]
pharveyhi kip3f, I think this would require an enhancement to the macro parser, but perhaps that is what arthur is suggesting
perhaps we could do a registerTagHandlerV2 () API for macros which support it
[00:27]
SvenDowideitoh
kip3f terminology
'default' means the unnamed parameter
not our otherwise
not your otherwise
so atm
"'X'"
<kip3f> "ingroup 'Y'" then="'X' is in group 'Y'"
<kip3f> "ingroup 'Z'" then="'X' is in group 'Z'"
would all be concatinated into one statement
that is then accessed by the core code as _DEFAULT=
aka wot pharvey said, but even less possible
[00:28]
kip3fOK that's why I implemented something with the syntax that was readily available
I was also thinking about %SWITCH% ... %CASE{}% %CASE{}% %ENDSWITCH%
[00:30]
pharveynooo :) [00:30]
SvenDowideitew :) [00:31]
pharveythat's harder to parse reliably. [00:31]
kip3fyes, and also then you can't really nest them [00:31]
SvenDowideitlalalala :)
once you get to that complex
[00:31]
pharveywe have those issues with ForEachPlugin. [00:31]
SvenDowideityou should extract to function topic / SECTION
and you really really need to think if thats not the case aleady
[00:31]
pharveypharvey ponders an thensection="" arg :P [00:32]
SvenDowideiti use alot of %INCLUDE{"IncludeTopic" section="%MYCONDITIONALS%" [00:32]
kip3fI definitely want to put it all in one macro (instead of separate %SWITCH and %CASE)
but it seems that there is fundamentally no nice way to get an ordered list, with the current API
[00:34]
pharveyI'd like to ping CDot again about making the macro parser actually support multiple args of the same name, because I've discussed it before, and I seem to recall it wasn't going to be terribly difficult (though I realise it's more than you probably want to tackle right now :-)
IIRC we need to extend Foswiki::Attrs
[00:36]
FoswikiBothttp://trunk.foswiki.org/System/PerlDoc?module=Foswiki::Attrs [ (Foswiki login) PerlDoc ] [00:37]
kip3fIs it the sort of change that could be in scope for 1.1 branch? [00:37]
pharveyno
I'm not sure CASE/SWITCH is either
[00:37]
SvenDowideitooo, another book that i dont' have time to read.... 'R in a nutshell' [00:38]
pharveyR is nifty [00:38]
SvenDowideitkip3f one idea that the INCLUDE thing i do leads me to [00:38]
pharveykip3f, what if... what if... oh, if only I wasn't so busy [00:38]
jayenpharvey: did you get anywhere with the wysiwyg? i might have time next weekend to look at it. [00:38]
pharveyjayen, awesome, I have some time slated for thursday [00:38]
SvenDowideit%INCLUDE{"IncludeTopic" section="CaseSection%INDEXOF{something that causes the cases to have a unique id}%" [00:39]
kip3fWhat's the %INDEXOF macro? [00:40]
jayenpharvey: awesome. [00:40]
pharveyI was going to do wysiwyg on the weekend, but other things happened
but, users are hassling me, so I'd better listen to them :)
[00:40]
kip3fOne thing about Foswiki ... I'm always paranoid that I missed something that is incredibly useful [00:43]
pharveythat feeling takes a long time to go away, and then after a while, you don't realise all these new features that are creeping in! Hehe.
I try to create an FAQ item or BestPracticeTip for things I think are useful but might not be well-known
I encourage us all to do the same
[00:45]
kip3fpharvey: I might be interested in giving it a try (multiple args with the same name) [00:46]
pharveykip3f, awesome. If you want to do that, you can do it without hacking the core. You can actually parse your own args without Foswiki::Attrs [00:47]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/okAKyg
[foswiki/master] Item11383: its 2012 now, not 2009 :) - SvenDowideit
[00:47]
***GithubBot has left [00:47]
pharveyone of the $params keys contains a full copy of everything between the opening & closing {} braces
so you could parse that and create your own $params hash
[00:48]
kip3fah interesting, I will check it out! [00:49]
SvenDowideitbut be aware that you'll need to argue against some very strong opinions that will be sure that doing so will introduce confusion
as you'd have one macro that treats "somthing""else""differently"
whereas adding a list operator would probly be more interstin
[00:50]
kip3fgood point, Sven [00:51]
SvenDowideitie ("one","two","three")
we already made all params named, rather than 'C' style
so we've set the stage for more explicit conventions
SvenDowideit is making this up as i think it
hell - using (asdf,asdf,asdf,asdf) might be a good way to create unnamed result sets
SvenDowideit backs away from himself
[00:52]
kip3fthe 'right' argument to switch is (condition, list_of<ifcondition,result.>) [00:55]
SvenDowideitmmm
or perlish
(condition, list_of<ifcondition=>result.>)
ie
(condition, hash<ifcondition=>result.>)
[00:55]
pharveySvenDowideit, I more wanted kip3f to explore writing a new Foswiki::Attrs, without waiting for us to enhance the core macro parser. Hopefully we could re-use the attrs parser he writes
I believe the $params->{_raw} or is it ->{_RAW}
[00:56]
SvenDowideitSvenDowideit is mostly suggesting that adding a "" "" "" that is different is probly a bad idea
the rest is just bumblin
[00:57]
pharveyI always wondered if such an Attrs parser would behave exactly the same as the old one, except if you had multiple keys of the same name, it'd return an arrayref for that key [00:58]
SvenDowideitwhich would kill lots of existing uses
and be different from perl - the idiom we've used alot
the cgi idiom (that you're suggesting) has confused alot of people over the years
so i still say - from a language design pov
[00:58]
pharveyfair enough; better to just have a new api. [00:59]
SvenDowideititsabadidea (tm)
clever code ~~ cruel
[00:59]
pharveyFoswiki::StackedAttrs + registerTagHandlerV2 [01:00]
FoswikiBothttp://trunk.foswiki.org/System/PerlDoc?module=Foswiki::StackedAttrs [ (Foswiki login) PerlDoc ] [01:00]
pharveysilly FoswikiBot, are you writing all these APIs that don't exist yet? Are you done with Foswiki::DOM already? [01:01]
FoswikiBothttp://trunk.foswiki.org/System/PerlDoc?module=Foswiki::DOM [ (Foswiki login) PerlDoc ] [01:01]
kip3fPerhaps it should be doing perl -e -M(modulename)
sorry -e 1
%SWITCH{"condition" someswitcharg="on" {test="if 1" result="result 1"} {test="if 2" result="result 2"}}%
i.e. add an ability to have another type of argument to Foswiki::Attrs
i mean, it would also contain a list of hash refs
[01:01]
What do you think? Is it too radical a change? [01:13]
SvenDowideitor just %SWITCH{"condition" someswitcharg="on" {"if 1" result="result 1"} {"if 2" result="result 2"}}%
mmm, ok, re-using { might make parsing painful
or just %SWITCH{"condition" someswitcharg="on" "if 1"="result 1"} {"if 2"="result 2"}%
or even
or just %SWITCH{"condition" "1"="result 1"} {"2"="result 2"}%
or just %SWITCH{"condition" "1"="result 1" "2"="result 2"}%
ie, "condition" is used to see if a param of that name exists
thus IF becomes a special case of SWITCH
if the result of condidion == true or false
then IF is the smae as
SWITCH{"1 > 2" true="bans" false="kicks"}
additionally, we then get to think about "'s around the left hand side to allow punctuation in the key
which might be good, and might be scary
thus begetting something QUERY-ish
SWITCH{"MyTopic\WaitingFor" '.*SvenDowideit'='you lazy bum'}
[01:18]
kip3fhaving the condition on the LHS of an = just looks wrong to me [01:24]
SvenDowideitand yet, thats how its done in most switch syntaxes? [01:25]
kip3fyes with a : [01:25]
SvenDowideitits just a hash lookup [01:25]
kip3fI know it doesn't matter what the symbol is, I'm just nitpicking. [01:25]
SvenDowideitgiggle [01:25]
kip3fit could be a quicker path to getting the feature 'out there'. I'd just need to parse _RAW to get the order of the tests right
which would *still* be objected to, I'm sure. Because it *is* a bit wierd
[01:29]
SvenDowideiti would suggest not rushing new syntax 'out there'
as thats how we've ended up with weird syntax that sux to suport
[01:30]
kip3fheh
%SWITCH{"condition" someswitcharg="on" [test="if 1" result="result 1"] [test="if 2" result="result 2"] }%
using square brackets instead
[01:31]
SvenDowideitbloody hard to read [01:31]
kip3fwhere's that parsing code, anyway? [01:31]
SvenDowideitpass :)
i would know, but i'd have to access my brain
Foswiki::Parser or somehin
[01:31]
FoswikiBothttp://trunk.foswiki.org/System/PerlDoc?module=Foswiki::Parser [ (Foswiki login) PerlDoc ] [01:32]
SvenDowideiter, Foswiki:: nope
mind you pharvey was likely right to make you look at Foswiki::Attrs
[01:32]
FoswikiBothttp://trunk.foswiki.org/System/PerlDoc?module=Foswiki::Attrs [ (Foswiki login) PerlDoc ] [01:34]
kip3fI could add list attribute support, via new methods
$params->getListVal('name') and ->setListVal('name', [ ... ])
[01:36]
SvenDowideitlets write it up a little first [01:37]
kip3fvia totally new methods that don't change the existing behavior
ok
Thanks for your feedback!
[01:37]
SvenDowideitfor eg
http://foswiki.org/Sandbox/SwitchStatement
[01:39]
kip3fThe dinner bell is ringing ... I will be back in 45 minutes or so
I thought that you vetoed [
[01:41]
SvenDowideiti don't veto :)
i just talk&talk&talk :)
in the hope that we keep iterating until we find a good solution
and wrt syntax, the hard thing is designing something that the debugging novice can grasp, and where missing char's either are detected, or visually obvious
thats one big problem with adding ()'s for grouping
if you miss a set, you don't be able to see it
but the Attr parser could posisble red-text it (togh that might cause other upgrade pain
[01:43]
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mmm, the apache config generator (2) assumes that apache logs goto /var/log/apache2 - rpm mess puts it at /var/log/httpd [02:25]
pharveyI seem to recall other things aren't calling it apache2, too. FreeBSD? [02:30]
dj_segfault1HI. I have a user who is having trouble registering into my 1.1.3 foswiki. He's getting Your registration verification email has either failed, or is queued in the mail system. Is there a way to debug that? I discovered the working/registration_approvals directory that shows the form data. He's not in the password file and there's no user page for him. [02:42]
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pharveyFoswikiBot: corelist Tie::Scalar [03:21]
FoswikiBotpharvey: Tie::Scalar was first released with perl 5.002 (released on 1996-02-29) [03:21]
pharveydj_segfault1, is Foswiki able to send E-mails? 1.1.4 has an E-mail test button in configure (or was it 1.1.3?) [03:21]
dj_segfault1Lemme look. I know I've had some problems. I have seen errors like ERROR: Can't send mail using Net::SMTP. "REJECTED - Bad HELO - Host impersonating [agilenewengland.org]"' My research indicates to solve this problem I need to set up PTR records in DNS. My webhost's support was not much help doing that though [03:24]
pharveyah, yeah. Some SMTPs are like that :/
can you configure Foswiki to use a different SMTP?
[03:24]
dj_segfault1I got the impression that message meant the recipient's SMTP server was telling me to shove off because reverse DNS isn't set up to map the IP to the sending domain name
You think it's *my* smtp server?
[03:27]
pharveyI thought that's what you were telling me...
And to be honest, our own site was misconfigured in this way briefly in 2009, and yes, some users weren't receiving our notifications because their ISP's fussy SMTP didn't like the fact our reverse-DNS wasn't what it wanted
dj_segfault1, perhaps you can try sending an E-mail using the same SMTP as Foswiki is, to dis/prove Foswiki is a part of the problem
[03:28]
dj_segfault1What I was saying was I think my *DNS* is set up wrong, and *RECIPIENT* SMTP is hatin' on me [03:30]
pharveythen we are in agreement [03:30]
gac410dj_segfault1: yeah I think that means that the server you connected to didn't like your ehlo identificationl It's not necessarily "your" dns - it's whoever owns the ip you are behind. Sometimes rdns has to be set up by the isp [03:30]
dj_segfault1Note: Configure says Net::SMTP is installed in this environment, so this setting will not be used. [03:30]
gac410That's for the mailprogram?
and it is 1.1.4 that added the test button.
[03:31]
dj_segfault1Yes, mailprogram is set to "/usr/sbin/sendmail -t -oi -oeq" but it says that below it. [03:32]
kip3fSvenDowideit: I updated http://foswiki.org/Sandbox/SwitchStatement [03:32]
pharveyI guess you need to use a different SMTP, or approve the user's registration manually and then tell him/her not to expect any emails from your wiki :/ [03:33]
dj_segfault1And this system is still 1.3.3 I still haven't gotten the 1.1.4 upgrade [03:33]
gac410right - foswiki can send mail with two(+) mechanisms. The local mailprogram, or the native perl methods. In 1.1.3 if perl Net::SMTP is present and the SMTP host is set, then mailprogram is ignore.
1.1.4 has changed to a explicit setting - either choose mailprogram or one of the Net:: modules, ex. Net::SMTP::SSL to connect to gmail.
[03:33]
dj_segfault1I tried sending an email to myself from the webhost server with "mail -v" and it worked I'm gonna try the email address from the attempted user [03:42]
gac410You might also need to set the SENDERHOST or whatever the parameter is so that foswiki identifies itself correctly in the ehlo
It's not the "from" user in the email message - this is SMTP protocol level stuff I think
If the helo is rejected, it never got as far as sending the message or it's headers.
[03:42]
dj_segfault1Actually it went through fine.
Interesting.
SENDERHOST? I don't see that setting
[03:45]
gac410$Foswiki::cfg{SMTP}{SENDERHOST} = '';
Should be on the mail config page under the MAILHOST
[03:48]
SvenDowideitkip3f updated a little more
as IF is jsut a simplified SWITCH
where a true value is stringified as 'true'
or, if you like '1'
thats a detail
[03:50]
dj_segfault1gac410: Ah sorry. I see it, and it's set to agilenewengland.org which is the domain name of the website [03:51]
gac410try just leaving it blank
It says it's required, but if not there SMTP tries to figure it out.
[03:51]
kip3fBut the first argument to SWITCH is not a condition, it's a value [03:52]
dj_segfault1gac410: Hm. I also noticed that MAILHOST is set to the real IP address of the machine. Maybe I should try setting that to localhost. [03:52]
kip3f%IF{"condition" then="kick" else="ban"}% === %SWITCH{"" if1="condition" result1="kick" default="ban"}% [03:53]
gac410mailhost should be the ip address of the smtp server you are sending to.
I'd try one thing at a time ;-)
[03:53]
SvenDowideitkip3f that reads pretty needslessly naf [03:53]
gac410You got a connection, so mailhost is probably ok, but the helo was rejected, so senderhost is the issue I suspect. [03:54]
SvenDowideitas true or false is a value you can swtich on
mind you, you're doing something that normally isn't a switch
[03:54]
dj_segfault1gac410: Of course. I'l try wiping out SENDERHOST, but I don't actually have a way of testing it. [03:54]
gac410Register another user?
(Or install 1.1.4 with the email test button :-D
[03:55]
SvenDowideitas putting lots of expressions into a switch devalues its optimisation use [03:55]
kip3fno it's not really a switch
it's a switch + if/elsif/else ladder
[03:55]
SvenDowideitin that case, you're mixing metafores [03:55]
kip3fyup [03:56]
SvenDowideitwhich is worse [03:56]
dj_segfault1gac410: I have my own mailserver at home so I can make up email addresses. I tried and it works fine. [03:56]
SvenDowideiteach language construct should be good at one thing (where possible)
what you're describing might be more like a
WITH{"object" execute="SWITCH{}"}
and even that is pretty painful
[03:56]
gac410btw dj_segfault1 you don't need to make up extra emails. You can share one email with multiple users. While I'm testing registraition I'll have 10, 20 or more registered at times. [03:57]
SvenDowideitna, i just don't like the idea of building IF THEN into a macro like that at all [03:59]
gac410okay I reconfigured my test host to set SENDERHOST = blah.com. And my email trace said: EHLO blah.com [03:59]
SvenDowideitI've done something similar using INCLUDE sections
with the beleif then when you get that complicated
the language should forge you to refactor
[04:00]
kip3fTake a look at my code http://foswiki.org/pub/Sandbox/SwitchStatement/view.rsvp.tmpl
I don't think that the SWITCH macro in it makes it too complicated
[04:02]
SvenDowideiti'm saying that with the existing syntax
its not that complicated to rewrite your tml either
you have c&ped the same code for each input value
you can replace that with a FORMAT{"Yes,No,Maybe,yesIf"} statement
and then int he format, there's something else
i cna't remember off the top of my head right now
but basically, the idiom you're using is not unique
format="<input type="radio" name="RSVP.%WIKINAME%.playing" \%IF{"'%BASEWEB%.%BASETOPIC%'/META:RSVP[name='%WIKINAME%'].playing = '$item'" then="checked='checked'" }%\
value="$item"/>$item<br/>"
i'm now just making it up for memory
SvenDowideit is trying to remember the cleverness for the 'Yes if I can get a ride' bit atm
[04:03]
kip3fYes I could clean that bit up, I should probably make a new TMPL for it
but please focus on the SWITCH part :-)
the if/elsif/else ladder is pretty central to my proposal, actually
[04:10]
SvenDowideityou can replace that with a trivial lookuptable
y, and its pretty central to my pointing out you don't need it
in... er... icons.famfamfam.tmpl
(i think - it was a loooooong time ago)
mmmm, no, gotta to that lookup later
%INCLUDE{"LookupTopic" section="%QUERY{"'%BASEWEB%.%BASETOPIC%'/META:RSVP[name='%PLAYER%'].driving"}
with named sections called... Yes, No, YesIf etc
and LookupTopic probly ~~ the formdefinition topic
[04:11]
kip3fI'll grant you, the driving SWITCH is pretty simple ... but please look at the one above it [04:14]
SvenDowideitmind you, i think there might be a way to get the tooltip for the form field value too
ffs, how many things do i need to look at before i find the one you actually mean?
[04:14]
kip3fLOL sorry [04:14]
SvenDowideitso you mean
%QUERY{"'%BASEWEB%.%BASETOPIC%'/META:RSVP[name='%PLAYER%'].driving
%SWITCH{"%QUERY{"'%BASEWEB%.%BASETOPIC%'/META:RSVP[name='%PLAYER%'].playing"}%"
if1=" '$switch' = 'YesIf' AND '%BASEWEB%.%BASETOPIC%'/META:RSVP[name='%PLAYER%'].GettingRideFrom != 'Nobody' "
result1="Yes"
equals2="YesIf"
result2="Needs a ride"}%
[04:15]
kip3fcorrect
sorry for the confusion, I should have been clearer.
[04:15]
SvenDowideityup, INCLUDE still works
using
%INCLUDE{"LookupTopic" section="%QUERY{"'%BASEWEB%.%BASETOPIC%'/META:RSVP[name='%PLAYER%'].driving" topic="%BASEWEB%.%BASETOPIC%" player="%PLAYER%"}
mind you, thats a pretty poor example to justify mashing together a SWITCH and a IFELSE into one mashup construct
just as a btw, the %INCLUDE thing i'm using as alternatives are basically parametaraised function call idiom
[04:16]
kip3fthat's a fair point.
The only downside to teh %INCLUDE idiom, is that I have to have additional logic inside the YesIf section
so the logic is spread out all over the place
[04:19]
SvenDowideitwhich you can then re-use elsewhere to render it
I tend to try to put all my rendering code into the one topic
and of course, for simpler apps my form def topic contains everything
making distribution of the app a one file affair
[04:20]
kip3fSven just to clarify a point: I don't mind at all, if we get rid of 'switch' and make this thing purely 'if /then / else"
but then it should probably have a better name
Why are you currently organizing all your TML the way you are? Is it because this is the best way, or is it because Foswiki is forcing you to do so?
in any case, It's time for me to go to sleep ... to be continued
[04:22]
SvenDowideitbecause i think its a good way - using functions
nite :)
[04:29]
kip3fthanks again for your time, there's lots of great things about Foswiki and I hope that I can make a (positive) contribution too [04:29]
SvenDowideitoh dear, the vatican has frozen over again
hell on the other hand continues to be toasty
[04:29]
pharveySvenDowideit: should make that an bestpractice/FAQ tip. [04:34]
SvenDowideitpharvey, ya, if&when i ever write TML again :( [04:42]
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pharveySvenDowideit: did you see @jim_croft's tweet reply re android tablets
SvenDowideit: I think he meant TF 101
[06:20]
SvenDowideitpharvey not yet
SvenDowideit goes to twit
[06:26]
pharveyhttp://www.asus.com/Eee/Eee_Pad/Eee_Pad_Transformer_TF101 10" android tablet [06:27]
SvenDowideitoh, twitter's ui is shit
there's nothing to tell me you replied to me in my normal view
[06:28]
pharveydon't you have an @Sven tab?
to see mentions of you
[06:28]
SvenDowideity, but thats not the normal view
so unless i'm constantly clickyclickin
which i don't
[06:28]
pharveyyeah [06:30]
SvenDowideitgood thing i just ran out of money [06:30]
pharveyJim really seems to like his Eee pad, FWIW (the keyboard attachment is tremendously nifty) [06:31]
SvenDowideitpaying for xmas, return trip, freight, postage of 40kg of junk and then a week stay in singapore :)
i'd love the thinkpad 10.1, but i'm currently dealing with those monkeys for supporting my father in laws thinkpad, so um, am not feeling generous
kb, trackpoint and pen
[06:31]
pharveyyou could just get an ePaper thing, PDFs are loverly on the kindle [06:32]
SvenDowideitbut the 7: feels more like its my size for on the couch
which is really where i'm missing something atm
nm, purchase delayed another month or 3 :)
[06:32]
pharveyyeah, Jim uses his to carry around everywhere, and the laptop for writing [06:33]
SvenDowideitgiggle - just a tad redundant feelin
i should be so lucky
meeting ~~ air con
here its 33 degrees and wet
[06:33]
pharveyew [06:34]
SvenDowideitok, so actually, i prefer that to going to meetings [06:34]
pharveypharvey wonders if any other language has anything remotely resembling ties [06:35]
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GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/dfbUbA
[foswiki/master] Item1928: handle failures better - CrawfordCurrie
[12:17]
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item1928 [ Item1928: SafeWikiPlugin: Dies on badly formed XHTML ] [12:18]
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***ChanServ sets mode: +o MichaelDaum_ [13:28]
FlorianPHI; I have a problem with the weblinkplugin; When i write: %WEBLINK{"Main" format="$web in $title" }% the output is Main in and a the link to Main.WebHome is missing [13:30]
kaitiis there a way to force WikiName == Login Name during user registration? [13:40]
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kaitifound: {Register}{AllowLoginName}
that was easy :)
[14:54]
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CDotgac410: if there is *any* exception in the html, it returns the DON'T PANIC! template, unless WANR is true [15:42]
gac410Ah - okay - I guess I didn't read it thoroughly enough. I thought it just let the $_[0] pass through and reported the $@ to the STDERR. [15:44]
MichaelDaumhey guys
just tried to upload something using tinymce. alas, those dialogs are empty.
this isn't working on foswiki/trunk right now
ah I see a "tinyMCEPopup is not defined" js error
where do I enable this plugin again / why isnt it enabled by default?
[15:47]
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pimperlehi
is there a way to remove topics and webs from the trash web?
so they will be permanently deleted with all of their traces?
[16:16]
gac410Just remove them from the file system. [16:17]
pimperlewill removing the web from pub/Trash suffice?
ah, great
thanks
[16:17]
gac410Don't delete the pubTrash or data/Trash directory itself [16:17]
pimperleyes, i only removed a subfolder
however the web is still visible in the website
and didn't come from the browser cache
is there an internal cache in foswiki?
[16:18]
gac410And if you trash Attachments, then you can remove the TrashAttachments topic and directory.
Did you remove the files from data/Trash as well as pub/Trash
data/Trash contains the topics. pub/Trash contains the attachments
[16:19]
pimperlei missed data/Trash
ok
it's gone, thanks
[16:20]
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Lynnwoodgreetings all.
I made an attempt at modifying GroupTemplate and now realize that I can't create groups at all. I get error that I don't have permission to add a user to the group. I tried reversing the extra permissions paramater i had added by putting back in the original string which was "%URLPARAM{"topic"}%" in the Edit Topic Preference settings. However, when saved, the string is encoded and doesn't not expand when the group topic is created. Looking a
distributed copy of GroupTemplate, I see that the URLPARM is not encoded. It would seem to me that the only way to accomplish this would be to edit the GroupTemplate.txt file directly. That seems kind of a funky set up. I'm just trying to confirm (if anyone around knows) if I'm understanding this correctly.
[16:41]
or maybe something else has changed.... Does "raw=all" no longer display the actual raw content of the topic? It seems to encode the values within preference settings... [16:56]
MichaelDaumFoswiki::urlEncode is poison for an utf8 string [16:59]
LynnwoodJeez... I'm more and more mystified by the new form for creating groups. The distributed version of the form has a value for the field called "username" set to %URLPARAM{"username"}%, although I don't know why or how such a urlparam would be set.
I had modified the form but now i'm trying to put it back the way it was (copying from a new copy of the distributed version), but now the form complains on submittal that "No username specified". :-(
And yet... if i try creating a group in a clean installation with this same exact setup, it does in fact work.
So it would seem that some magic is being done behind the scenes that makes this work... but now that i'm changed something, the magic is broken.
so strange
[17:01]
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MichaelDaumhey CDot. got a bloody utf8 question tilling me
%ENCODE{"some utf8 string"}% goes to Foswiki::urlEncode()
which then does some nasty string analysis to convert chars via sprintf()
it seems as if this does not respect proper utf8 codepoints and instead fragments it somehow
right?
just need somebody to rething this shit
rethink
[17:44]
CDotCDot looks at the code [17:46]
MichaelDaumand urlEncode is quite essential to quite a lot of code parts [17:46]
CDotyou are correct; the string passed to encode is not unicode [17:47]
MichaelDaumfor example: all EXPORTEDPREFERENCES are processed via %ENCODE to fit it into a <meta name="...." content="..." /> field [17:47]
CDotso it *will* banjax UTF8, yes [17:47]
MichaelDaumlots of other plugins have c&peed this urlEncode fragment for their use.
test: create a topic Sandbox.ÜTF8Test
[17:47]
gac410CDot - re your question - the reason I encoded the ' and " was to keep the encoding in sync with the %ENCODE type="safe" ... No particular deep thinking :-) [17:48]
MichaelDaumthen look at <meta name="foswiki.TOPIC" content="..." />
contains rubbish
that's why tinymce and topicinteraction and what else can't upload attachments to umlaut topics
[17:49]
CDotk. No worries, as I said, except that no one who works for that well known company M'crosoft can rego [17:50]
MichaelDaumthey are sent to some banjaxed utf8 topic
which you don't get rid of anymore
[17:50]
CDotMichaelDaum: yes. The only solution is either to (1) do some fancy footwork if the site charset is utf8 or (2) convert the core to unicode. No prizes for guessing which I think is the right answer. [17:51]
MichaelDaumI tried (1) but while fixing one part of calls to urlEncode, the other half gets even worse.
for now status quo is: can't attach to umlaut topics; avoid them like a plaque
[17:52]
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DSM2In upgrading to foswiki 1.1.4, I get "Insecure dependency in unlink while running with -T switch at /auto/adbuwiki/Foswiki-1.1.4/lib/Foswiki/LoginManager.pm line 575." -- Look familiar? [22:12]
pharveysadly, not to me
pharvey reads that line
what verison of perl?
[22:13]
gac410hm - it's just trying to expire old sessions. strange. [22:14]
pharveydoes it keep happening all the time? Or was this just a once-off? [22:14]
DSM2I have a feeling I installed a Perl module I shouldn't have -- 5.8.5 [22:14]
pharvey5.8.5. We recommened 5.8.8 minimum, I think. I seem to recall that untainting semantics have shifted subtly around those releases. [22:15]
DSM2happens all the time. [22:15]
pharveywhat OS? [22:15]
gac4105.8.5 is too old - didn't we move to at least 5.8.8 in 1.1.3 or 4? What release of Foswiki are you upgrading from? [22:15]
DSM2redhat [22:15]
pharveyyou'd think we'd have a perl version check warning in configure
pharvey probably forgot to add it :P
[22:16]
gac410I thought we did. [22:16]
pharveyDSM2, have you re-run configure afterward? [22:16]
DSM2upgrading from foswiki 1.1.3
rerun configure? How do you mean?
[22:16]
pharveyit's important to re-run configure after each upgrade, sometimes we add new checkers and fixup old configs
/bin/configure admin interface
[22:16]
DSM2from the command line? I can't get into foswiki because of this error the normal way. [22:18]
gac410hm. you can bypass that code temporarily. On the Security & Authentication tab of bin/configure, set {Sessions}{ExpireAfter} to a negative number.
bin/configure from the browser. That should not run the expire code.
[22:18]
pharveyconfigure is designed to work even if Foswiki is busted [22:19]
DSM2I get this error when trying to connect to the foswiki -- ie how do I get to configure?
so you "bin/configure" from the command line as root on the server?
[22:19]
pharveyjeez! Solaris 10 ships with perl 5.8.4 too, that's fscking insane [22:20]
gac410What does your "view" url look like? http://your.site/bin/view/Main/WebHome
no configure will not run from the command line
[22:20]
DSM2That's it [22:20]
gac410okay Try browsing to your.site/bin/configure [22:20]
pharveyperl 5.8.4 released 2004-04-23 [22:21]
DSM2Ah. site/bin/configure works, but what do I look for next?
There's a lot of old systems behind firewalls at companies
[22:23]
gac410Any errors listed in the configuration? [22:24]
DSM2a couple of permission problems on files (known issues -- shouldn't be a problem) [22:24]
gac410At minimum you could select the "Security and Authentication" tab - "Sessions" tab, and set {Sessions}{ExpireAfter} to a negative number. [22:24]
DSM2also a number of warnings that probably aren't a problem [22:25]
gac410That might get your site running - though you will start to accumulate session files. There is a shell script that can clean them up - tools/tick_foswiki.pl [22:26]
pharveyand to think the #perl monks think we're mad bothering with 5.10 [22:27]
DSM2Ok, that got me. This sets session to not expire, correct? Why would that get me in? [22:27]
gac410The code that was failing was trying to delete expired sessions. [22:27]
DSM2ah [22:27]
gac410The sessions still expire, but the files will accumulate on disk. So you need to run tick_twiki.pl in a cron job. [22:28]
DSM2You think the problem is an old Perl? [22:28]
gac410That would be my guess. [22:28]
DSM2Ok, I'll play with it. Thanks [22:29]
gac410you might run into other issues - we are not testing at all with 5.8.4 any more. [22:33]
pharveyDSM2, possibly it's a perl module at fault, I notice that 5.8.8 perldelta mentions a taint problem fixed in File::Spec
are you running utf-8 charset? There's this too: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=411786
[22:36]
gac410wow that bug doesn't get fixed until 5.14 [22:41]
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SharathJagadeeshHi
Need Help on Superfish Menu..
[22:56]
Hi
Alll\
[23:05]
pharveyHi SharathJagadeesh
superfish is... a challenge :)
[23:13]
SharathJagadeeshAny simple way [23:16]
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