#foswiki 2012-02-09,Thu

↑back Search ←Prev date Next date→ Show only urls(Click on time to select a line by its url)

WhoWhatWhen
gac410gac410 thrashes around and gets lots little things done on projects-that-never-get-completed. [00:01]
................... (idle for 1h34mn)
quazimodopharvey: this is by far the most mature channel i have come across, you guys rock :)
pharvey: ill add it to my todo and then send it to you :)
[01:35]
pharveyawesome! [01:44]
............... (idle for 1h10mn)
quazimodopharvey: i did like the *option* for structured data, the implementation horrified me a little
well
not horrified
i just saw that its done very manually, but please give me more time to see how it works before i can really comment onit
[02:54]
pharveyyeah, I've been chipping away at trying to reimplement Foswiki::Forms with a new MVC(P) framework [02:55]
FoswikiBothttp://trunk.foswiki.org/System/PerlDoc?module=Foswiki::Forms [ (Foswiki login) PerlDoc ] [02:55]
pharveymy users don't like building tables either, so I have a wiki-app that builds DataForm definition tables, but that's clunky too
so, where my users appreciate Foswiki, is coming off obscure single-purpose, bespoke database things, which are either inflexible, or run by someone who is inflexible
they like the idea of being in control, but largely prefer me to help them set up new wiki-apps, once I get them going they're ok
but we can certainly do better, I need more time to finish fleshing out my MVC idea :)
our wiki is slowly replacing _some_ shared spreadsheets and _some_ access databases. It won't replace them all, but there are good situations where the wiki is the right tool for the job
we still use drupal, and we still use rails, and we still use confluence... each tool has a great thing they excel at
[02:55]
dj_segfaultHi. I'm still fighting registration problems due to email problems. (1) What does it mean when I find multiple files for a registrant in working/registration_approvals/? (2)Is there a need to clean those up before the user makes another attempt? (3)Is there any logging of the registration process? (4) I couldn't find any docs on the registration process. What do I need to search for that I'm missing? [03:09]
pharvey1 - it means they attempted more than once; 2 - you don't need to, but you may as well, 3 - hrm, let me see. Keyword: RegistrationAgent [03:21]
gac410dj_segfault: Did you get to the point of Foswiki sending a registration e-mail? [03:23]
pharveyah, how embarrassing. I can't see any doc which illustrates the registration process in detail. http://foswiki.org/Support/Question934 may be educational, but essentially it goes something like: user registers, user confirms, confirmation action also prompts the RegistrationAgent to create the user topic from NewUserTemplate, and update the .htpasswd (if you are using HtPasswdUser)
confirmation should also send the email
[03:24]
gac410If confirmation is not required, user registers, email sent, topic created, WikiUsers updated, .htpasswd updated [03:26]
dj_segfaultgac410: I believe so, but I think some servers are rejecting my server's emails. I'm working with the webhost on it but I don't think they understand the problem. I see errors like 'ERROR: Can't send mail using Net::SMTP. "REJECTED - Bad HELO - Host impersonating [agilenewengland.org]"' but some people (like me) get them fine. [03:26]
gac410Can you share the IP Address of your server? (prefix the line with [off] if you don't want it logged, or send me a private msg [03:27]
dj_segfaultgac410: They're telling me I have to use SMTP auth. But if that was the problem NO emails would be sent out. That's why I think it's a problem with DNS records, PTR in particular [03:27]
gac410right. the HELO message happens before auth.
It's never getting to AUTH if the HELO fails.
[03:27]
dj_segfaultWait, so your theory is that it's MY smtp server rejecting the HELO not the recipient's? I didn't think of that.
But why would some work and others not then?
[03:28]
gac410Yes. Did you put in IP address or hostname of SMTP server? If hostname, then there might be a dns rotation across multiple hosts, with config differences? [03:29]
dj_segfaultNo we are running on a shared virtual host with an IP address that never changes. [03:30]
gac410You run your own SMTP server? [03:31]
dj_segfaultAnd this is a bitch to test because emails send fine for me
I run my own SMTP server at home, but this virtual host also has an SMTP server on it, and that's what I'm using. It's on the same damn machine.
[03:31]
gac410If you enable SMTP Debug and can look in the Apache error_log file, you will see the entire exchange. EHLO is the very first line sent
Connect. Server sends 220 - (it's identification) Client sends EHLO blah.com Server replies with a bunch of 250 - lines saying what it will accept
Server meaning SMTP server. Client == Foswik::Net
er. Net::SMTP
[03:34]
Sending a message from foswiki with the 1.1.4 test facility. 1.1.3 with SMTP debug enabled should log the same type of information [03:40]
dj_segfaultgac410: Yes, I know that. The thing that was throwing me off was that I was pretty sure the "impersonation" complaint was coming from the receiving SMTP server, not my sending SMTP server.
Where does it log?
[03:41]
gac410It should log to the apache error_log
what SMTP server are you using?
[03:41]
dj_segfaultNo idea. It's a shared host so I don't have root or access to all commands. [03:43]
gac410So you can't look at the SMTP server config or logs then :-( [03:44]
dj_segfaultI tried telnet localhost 25 and got connection refused.
Correct. And the cpanel will only show me the last 300 apache logs
[03:44]
gac410Do they provide a local sendmail command [03:45]
dj_segfaultyes, in /usr/sbin, but I was able to run it [03:47]
gac410Ah have you tried just removing the MAILHOST and other SMTP config info. Foswiki will send using the local sendmail command [03:47]
dj_segfaultEven if Net::SMTP is present? [03:49]
gac410yup - if no mailhost is provided, it can't send using Net::SMTP. (1.1.4 makes that a setting instead of implied ) [03:49]
dj_segfaultOK, I'll try that. Thanks.
MailProgram is set to "/usr/sbin/sendmail -t -oi -oeq" does that look right?
[03:50]
gac410yup
Ive never seen anyone have to change it
[03:51]
dj_segfaultOK. I'm literally chatting with support right now and got info on how to set up SMTP auth, and it's less than fun but possible
They say to use localhost for a mailhost so I might try that too.
[03:52]
gac410Not much to smtpauth in foswiki. Just include the user and password and it should perform auth.
Need to have Authen::SASL installed in cpan modules
[03:53]
dj_segfaultRight but on their side I need a real user, which means a webmail account in shared hosting world. But I need to see replies so then I need to set up a forwarder to forward the webmail account to my home. [03:54]
gac410Well Foswiki can't receive emails. So for gmail for ex. I use my personal login for smtp testing. You don't need a unique account other than it exposes the password in the Foswiki Localsite.cfg [03:56]
dj_segfaultInteresting. He's saying not to use /usr/sbin/sendmail because that could cause the impersonation problems I'm seeing. [03:58]
gac410well he knows (hopefully) their env. so ... what he says... :-) [03:58]
dj_segfaultBack to the question of the working/registration_approvals/ directory. How does that get cleaned out? Should I remove old ones myself? [03:59]
gac410I hate to say it - I have no idea- never worried about it. Maybe tick_foswiki.pl?
gac410 goes to look
[04:00]
dj_segfaultI'm guessing the idea is when they follow the link in the email and registration gets confirmed then it deletes it and uses the form data. [04:01]
gac410yes - I'm trying to find where it might delete it. [04:02]
dj_segfaultThank you guys so much for your help. [04:04]
gac410RequestCache is managed along with Session files. So unless you set the session expiration to 0, they will disappear after the session timer expires. [04:04]
dj_segfault.. but they're not. I have files in there from 01/30 [04:07]
gac410hm. Maybe you've found a bug. Either that or it needs a successful registration to cleanup the other ones. [04:08]
dj_segfaultI actually have one in there from December
The latter is mu guess
[04:08]
gac410Have you ever had the reg function run completely?
tools/tick_foswiki.pl will clean up stale leases, sessions, etc.
[04:09]
dj_segfaultYes, a lot of users have problems, but most seem to register fine.
Do I need to run that in cron?
Or is it run by foswiki?
[04:09]
gac410If {Sessions}{ExpireAfter} is not set to a negative number, you should not need to run it.
Foswiki is supposed to clean up automatically. tick_foswiki is used on large busy sites where the realtime cleanup takes too long.
[04:10]
tsnfoopharvey: have you noticed anything weird with Mongo and ACL checks? [04:15]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/vih7mQ
[foswiki/master] Item10960: less crashy, perl-ification, refactoring - PaulHarvey
[foswiki/master] Item10960: perltidy - PaulHarvey
[04:18]
***GithubBot has left [04:18]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item10960 [ Item10960: Implement a bibtex formfield type ] [04:18]
dj_segfaultgac410: I set up smtp auth and sending didn't work. Nothing in the apache error logs, and debug is turned on.
I should leave SENDERHOST blank, right?
[04:19]
gac410MAILHOST = your smtp server ip or name. SENDERHOST blank (Net::SMTP will figure it out). *Something* should be logged.
Sure do wish you had 1.1.4. Not that it will work, but the email test function captures STDERR and redirects it to the browser.
[04:20]
dj_segfaultI tried to have 1.1.4 ;) Fixing this problem is a more pressing need, and I'm the IT department for the whole group. [04:22]
gac410I just don't know why it would fail completely unless maybe Authen::SASL is not available so a require fails. [04:23]
dj_segfault.. And I'm a Software Engineer by day. Granted I've been running a Linux server at home for about a decade and am on the Board of my local Linux user group, but that's not the same as being a real SysAdmin.
Configure page says Authen::SASL:2.15 installed. Required for SMTP Authentication
[04:23]
gac410okay - so that's not it. [04:24]
dj_segfaultYou would not believe how many browser windows and chat windows I have open right now ;) [04:24]
gac410It's not that you are not a sysadmin. It's because running a hosted site is trying to do it blindfolded and with broken fingers.
with SMTP debug enabled, you should be getting something that looks like http://pastebin.com/GretutE6 when you register a user.
[04:25]
dj_segfaultThey're using Exim. I got that out of the support guy [04:28]
gac410well that's another one I'm not familiar with. [04:29]
dj_segfaultI've heard of it. [04:29]
gac410Once I used sendmail ~~shudder~~ but have been using postfix for years. I've heard of exim, just never administered it. [04:30]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/aMMv6w
[foswiki/master] Item11512: Add MD5 signature function, other fixes. - GeorgeClark
[04:30]
***GithubBot has left [04:30]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11512 [ Item11512: Ensure all topics in System pass ] [04:30]
dj_segfaultFoswikiBot: You have a sexy voice
Sorry I'm getting punchy
[04:33]
OK, it looks like I have mail auth working right now. Is there anything I should clean up before having users retry, or are the files in that directory the only artifacts of attempted registration? [04:38]
gac410Ah - with confirmations enabled, probably only those files. If confirmation disabled, then you would have partially registered users in Main [04:39]
dj_segfaultAre there docs on how to completely remove a user from the system? I don't want to trouble you if there are.
I couldn't find them but I'll look again if they exist
[04:40]
gac410: Yes, I switched to postfix a long time ago. Worlds easier to configure than sendmail. Configuring sendmail is like writting i386 assembler code. [04:48]
gac410dj_segfault: not really on removing a user. It's discouraged because rcs files may have references in the history [04:49]
dj_segfaultUgh. Because I've been creating dummy users for testing the registration system. [04:49]
gac410But ... for dummy users during testing. Remove UserNameTopic.txt, userNameTopic.txt,v remove user line from WikiUsers topic, and remove entry from .htpasswd [04:50]
dj_segfaultAh, that should do it. Thanks. [04:50]
gac410If editing .htpasswd, to prevent corruption, write-protect it so nobody can register or change passwords while file is open.
save, and then allow write again.
[04:50]
dj_segfaultGood idea. [04:50]
......... (idle for 43mn)
jeskpharvey: because i'am really new to foswiki i would like to help too with giving my first impressions about foswiki [05:33]
***gac410 has left [05:33]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/ybQK8g
[foswiki/master] Item11512: Update MD5s for all 1.1.4 JS. - GeorgeClark
[05:33]
***GithubBot has left [05:33]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11512 [ Item11512: Ensure all topics in System pass ] [05:33]
SvenDowideitquazimodo, are you ever in brissy?
SvenDowideit has the same reaction to twiki/foswiki all the time, and I've been writing core code since.... 2001 ish
but sadly, i feel the same way about http, html, and lots of other things
mmm, 3:45 and i've finally got time to look at my computer. coupla thousand emails to peruse and then it'll be time to make dinner
mmm, is there a foriefox-top or chromw-top
that will list all my tabs and how much resources they're using?
[05:43]
pharveytsnfoo: no, I've never noticed an issue - unless the .txt is changed offline without updating mongo
tsnfoo: I'm running on a quite stale trunk by now, perhaps there's a new problem I haven't seen yet
jesk: please do! I actually wish one of us would have the time to set up a user survey; all feedback is valuable
[05:58]
jeskpharvey: how to submit the best so that it has any means to you guys?
how about using the wiki for that? :)
[06:07]
pharveyjesk, absolutely, there's a UX area, not sure if that's entirely the correct place for it, but closest I think of [06:10]
jeskyou should really investigate in user feedback and analysis, i think its really important for competing with the other wikis [06:10]
pharveythere's http://foswiki.org/Development/UserExperienceTaskTeamProjects but this isn't where you should go [06:11]
jeskwe technicians are always too ideological :)
then i wont :)
[06:11]
pharveygo to http://foswiki.org/Development/BrainStorming
Call your new topic something like, 'FoswikiFirstImpressions'
[06:12]
jeskyeah good idea
will do it on weekend
[06:12]
pharveyI would even be happy for it to end up in a task, we've had one or two do that
I try refactor them into proposals and bug reports
and we even fix a few of their complaints
jesk & quazimodo, looking forward to your feedback, however brutally honest :)
[06:13]
quazimodoSvenDowideit: im in sydney mostly, rarely come to brisbane [06:26]
SvenDowideitcan't blame you :)
i live here
its hot, and windy.
oh :p
clearly, pharvey and I need to find an excuse to come to the center of the arse end of the world
(not sure if thats sydney, of if you and I woudl need to goto canberra)
[06:26]
pharveysven, you have a way with words :P
nobody likes canberra
[06:28]
SvenDowideitwhome? don't quote me! [06:28]
pharveyI was supposed to be up in Brisbane for a family thing this weekend, but it's all flooded & they're hozing out houses instead
er, going through Brisbane, at least
[06:29]
SvenDowideitflooded??? harumpf
we ain't got no waters here!
[06:29]
pharveyroma :) [06:29]
SvenDowideit'going through Brisbane' :D [06:30]
pharveywell, I usually stop through brisbane, to catch up with people
but now that I say that, it's been... how long since lca2011? Haha.
[06:30]
SvenDowideitbut not now :( you bum!!! :P
zactly
[06:30]
pharveymy normal direct route to Roma would have taken me through St George, so ignoring the hovercraft I'd need to get past lightning ridge, would still not have enough water on the highway to get all the way to Roma
hence why I was going to fly brisbane -> rent a car out to roma, but, too many things are happening
[06:32]
.... (idle for 19mn)
***JulianLevens has left
card.freenode.net sets mode: +ovoo SvenDowideit WikiRingBot Babar Lavr
[06:51]
SvenDowideit sets mode: +oooo AndreU harlan LarsEik pharvey [06:58]
.............. (idle for 1h7mn)
ChanServ sets mode: +o MichaelDaum [08:05]
......... (idle for 44mn)
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to Release01x01: http://git.io/MAtRxQ
[foswiki/Release01x01] Item11512: cleaning up a wiki app mess - MichaelDaum
[08:49]
***GithubBot has left [08:49]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11512 [ Item11512: Ensure all topics in System pass ] [08:49]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/VhHRvw
[foswiki/master] Item11512: cleaning up a wiki app mess - MichaelDaum
[08:49]
***GithubBot has left [08:49]
..... (idle for 24mn)
PeterSvendsenHi all, would it be possible to see more statistics then the standatd statistic.. e.g. I would like to see from where in the world the visitors to the Foswiki are from etc.... is that possible? [09:13]
.......... (idle for 45mn)
CDotPeterSvendsen: yes, sure. The statistics page could be analysed using a %SEARCH to look up the user's home location. A bit fiddly, be quite do-able. [09:58]
PeterSvendsenThx CDot... what do you mean by %SEARCH... I'm a bit confused :( [10:12]
CDotThe %SEARCH macro allows you to search for every matching line in a file. By matching the lines in the statistics table, you can process the table to extract the user name. That can then be used to extract the "Country" field from the user's personal topic. [10:14]
PeterSvendsenokay.. my hope was ther there were a plugin for advanced statistics :) it is more not all the visitors in the Wiki are users.....:)
Another question.... can I have a hidden web but still use the hidden web for searches and show the result in a not hidden web?
[10:23]
CDotPeterSvendsen: I'm not aware of such a plugin, but there are several people around who could develop one for you, given appropriate motivation. Re: you hidden web question; I can't think of a way to do that (though of course you could simply "obscure" the "hidden" web i.e. don't tell anyone it's there, and don't list it anywhere) but it would still be accessible to anyone "in the know" [10:30]
PeterSvendsenThanks for your feedack CDot :) [10:37]
.... (idle for 19mn)
ModAcOstIs there any way to include templates on some plugins condition? E.g. when my plugin says "Hello" the result is like TMPL:INCLUDE{"Hello"} [10:56]
.... (idle for 19mn)
CDotModAcOst: plugins have access to the "context" (thorugh Foswiki::Func::getContext). The context can be used to set conditions that can be tested by %IF [11:15]
FoswikiBothttp://trunk.foswiki.org/System/PerlDoc?module=Foswiki::Func [ (Foswiki login) PerlDoc ] [11:15]
CDotor, if you want to access the text of a template in your plugin, Foswiki::Func::loadTemplate is your friend [11:16]
MichaelDaumWikiRingBot, seen Oliver [11:28]
WikiRingBotWikiRingBot has last seen OliverKrueger 8 Feb 2012 - 13:07 GMT on #foswiki [11:28]
........ (idle for 38mn)
SvenDowideitwow, so i'm not the only one that thinks having a DENYDIRECTWEBVIEW acl might be interesting
SvenDowideit goes to sleep :/
[12:06]
..... (idle for 23mn)
AlexanderStHey Michael, how was the ride back to hamburg? [12:30]
ModAcOstCDot: thx, but it's not really what I'm looking for. Right now I'm changing the view template but that will break manually set viewtemplates. So I really want to change the defs in view according to my plugin. [12:38]
MichaelDaumHi Alex. Took a while for the deutsche-bahn to find its way up to hamburg. Seems it was the first time they did that ride for their customers.
ModAcOst, use context flags to talk to your templates from within perl
like Foswiki::Func::getContext()->{FooEnabled} = 1;
[12:39]
FoswikiBothttp://trunk.foswiki.org/System/PerlDoc?module=Foswiki::Func [ (Foswiki login) PerlDoc ] [12:41]
MichaelDaumand then %TMPL:P{context="FooEnabled" then="somedef" else="someotherdef"}% [12:42]
ModAcOstBut then I'd have to put everything into one big template and can't customize easily. [12:43]
MichaelDaumit really depends on the information that has to be propagated to the templates [12:43]
ModAcOstHm, will ponder about it a bit... [12:44]
MichaelDaumthe solution you where outlining works as well: modify the skin path from within a plugin. but that has to happen reasonably early in the foswiki init process for the templates to react on it
sometimes even initPlugin comes too late for the templates to get their path right. but it works quite okay too.
[12:45]
.... (idle for 18mn)
***ChanServ sets mode: +o OliverKrueger
OliverKrueger sets mode: +oooo AndreU AlexanderSt CDot Colas
OliverKrueger sets mode: +oooo LarsEik Lynnwood pharvey ThomasPHaeck
OliverKrueger sets mode: +o tsnfoo
[13:03]
................. (idle for 1h20mn)
raj_new foswiki user - trying to configure MirrorWebPlugin - can anyone help?
probably nothing specific to MirrorWebPlugin, just basic plugin config stuff
[14:24]
CDotraj_: convention on this channel is to just ask. if anyone can answer, they will (and that includes you!) [14:26]
raj_sure
"To start mirroring a web to another web in either mode, create the mirror web (the copy)"
presumably that just means create the wiki topic
not populate it with content ?
also "set the web preference MIRRORWEBPLUGIN_MIRROR in the web that you want to mirror"
I do that in ./data/Main/MyTopic.txt ?
[14:27]
CDotraj_: to your first question, create the *web* you want to mirror into. It starts out empty.
to your second question, you do that in the same place you set any other web preference - in WebPreferences.
[14:34]
raj_ok, just not sure how to access "WebPreferences"
so. I have the link WebPreferences - follow it and it looks like an info page
nowhere does it show me where to make those changes
my guess is that I either 'edit' that page, or go direct to data/Main/WebPreferences.txt and add teh commands manually ?
[14:35]
..... (idle for 24mn)
CDotraj_: read System.PreferenceSettings
there is a WebPreferences *in each web* (hence the name). e.g. Main.WebPreferences sets the preferences for the web called "Main"
[15:03]
raj_right. looks like MirrorWeb is overkill for me - I just want to mirror a single topic
Publish looks more lime what I need
of course it's *still* going to need configuring
[15:06]
.................... (idle for 1h39mn)
AlexanderStMichaelDaum: Hi Michael...i remember that you fixed the solrsearch parseerror yesterday. It was something about the json object. Do you remember where you fixed it? [16:45]
MichaelDaumThat's in lib/Foswiki/Plugins/SolrPlugin/Search.pm [16:46]
AlexanderStokay i see! [16:47]
....... (idle for 30mn)
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/8CnX7A
[foswiki/master] Item11512: Add 1.1.3 & 2, remove JQAjaxHelper - GeorgeClark
[17:17]
***GithubBot has left [17:17]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11512 [ Item11512: Ensure all topics in System pass ] [17:17]
***ChanServ sets mode: +o MichaelDaum_ [17:29]
..................... (idle for 1h44mn)
jeskdumb question, but what's that: http://foswiki.org/Extensions/WebLeftBar ? [19:13]
gac410What do you mean?
It's the text shown on the right side of the Extensions web - The Foswiki fatwilly skin puts the left bar on the right.
[19:14]
jeskthe page is just empty, no explanation about the extension webleftbar [19:17]
gac410It's empty? shows up fine for me. [19:17]
jeski only see "Quick Links" and "Tools" [19:18]
gac410That is what 's supposed to be there
It is a component of the Foswiki:Extensions/WebHome (and other extensions web pages) showing on the right side of the page
[19:19]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Extensions/WebHome [ WebHome ] [19:19]
jeskoooh
lol
an own extension for *that* :)
[19:19]
..... (idle for 23mn)
http://foswiki.org/Extensions/WebPermissionsPlugin
nearly all images links are missing here (fyi)
[19:43]
........... (idle for 54mn)
how does the CKeditor(plugin) compete with the TinyMCE(plugin)
do they differ in features?
[20:38]
foswiki_irc5hei guys
Office Connector for Foswiki is open source
?
[20:44]
.......................... (idle for 2h5mn)
pharveyjesk: you have to apply a patch to WysiwygPlugin to make CKEditorPlugin work properly (another thing that's been on my TODO... help wanted) [22:49]

↑back Search ←Prev date Next date→ Show only urls(Click on time to select a line by its url)