#foswiki 2012-02-12,Sun

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WhoWhatWhen
pharveygac410: I thought we were returning the /bin/login HTML inside the 401 response body [00:00]
gac410Browsers will never display it. [00:01]
pharveyApparently they do, with the appropriate WWW-Authenticate header [00:01]
gac410Ah - if they don't understand it? [00:01]
pharveySvenDowideit found some RFCs which have stalled to formalize this properl, a new auth-type that fits this pattern
yeah, IIRC, the spec says to ignore authenticate mechanisms they don't understand
some IETF discussion around these RFCs indicate quite some research to confirm this is the actual behaviour of the browsers they tested
[00:02]
gac410I still don't see the proposal as eliminating the redirect. The proposal was for XHR requests only. It just kinda jumps to a conclusion to nuke redirect without actually defining a complete proposal. [00:03]
pharveyThe problem is we *don't* want it just for XHR. There are quite a lot of non-human, non-AJAX clients we want to play nice with
(me being one of them)
But it is true the proposal needs clarification
[00:04]
gac410I just get worried that based upon the conclusion, we can just return the 401, forget about redirect, and not deal with the consequences it might have on other fw behavior. [00:05]
pharveythis is one of those proposals where we've discussed ad-nauseam on IRC, and failed to translate into a proper proposal. [00:06]
gac410anyway ... I hate proposals that define 1/2 of the task, and leave the rest for others ... like the "and then a miracle occurs" box on the flowchart. [00:08]
....... (idle for 34mn)
SvenDowideitgac410, yes
the advice i was given by some rfc types
was that the redirect and then 200 was a bad and detrimental interpretation of the spec
and that yes, if auth is required, then you should bloodywell return 401
[00:42]
gac410Okay - but that's not the proposal that CDot wrote. [00:43]
SvenDowideitno, its not :(
its the discussino we had on irc for the next 2 days that changed things
but i also don't actually know what cdot's intending, as he's not updated his req
[00:43]
gac410I couldn't figure if the "Accepted by consensus" meant he (or someone) could just go ahead and nuke the redirect, or if was to go ahead and do just the 401 for XHR requests.
If is the former - then the proposal needs to be much more complete. It leaves too much to the imagination.
[00:44]
SvenDowideitit is however a continuation of the bug task that we ran out of energy to persue last time
so :)
[00:46]
gac410btw I agree with your comments in principle. but I object to an incomplete proposal that *might* result in a complete solution or might leave others holding the bag. [00:46]
SvenDowideitif you can point to some actual problem with removing the redirect, that would help slow us down, but from what i've seen, not using 401 is more of a problem
happily, there's even an proposal that we can just implement
as in an IETF draft
http-cookie-auth - https://github.com/tbroyer/http-cookie-auth
i've not had time to work on it since, but its on my stack :)
[00:47]
gac410So if it's as your comment said. Consensus that redirect dies, and 401 is the solution. Then the proposal needs to completely define how it all wil work - even if it's the IETF draft. [00:48]
SvenDowideitand he's been doing the testing of what browsers do ..
all very true - when i wrote that i did presume that we'd update the top
no biggie - for us, its just that you're right, and we've not done so :)
[00:48]
gac410okay. I just think we need to hold off on "Accepted" status until the proposal is actually defined. Otherwise it's liable to be a mess.
btw I started the timer on the bcrypt proposal and opened a task.
[00:49]
SvenDowideitme nods and looks at his broken mailserver [00:50]
gac410I think that will all fit in. [00:50]
SvenDowideitgiggle
who used up my disk space
[00:50]
gac410still suffering with bad headers in the messages blocking the queues? [00:51]
SvenDowideitna, worse, I've used up the TB's on my home partition [00:51]
gac410yeah it's amazing how stuff grows. I've been running out of space recently as well. pita
And I can't symlink my /var/www web directory because of the suexec restrictions.
[00:52]
SvenDowideiti have vm's from over 10 years ago
talk about sad
or better said, a few minutes i did
now the oldest on this disk is 5years old :/
maybe i can justify that iSCSI array after all
owd
SvenDowideit runs away swetting like a pig from the bike ride :)
see you tomorrow probly :)
[00:53]
gac410g'night SvenDowideit or g'day or whatever it is :-) [00:56]
............... (idle for 1h11mn)
SvenDowideitoh, that is awesome - more because its taken this long to notice
$ ln -s /usr/bin/sudo %n
[02:07]
gac410wha that do? [02:07]
Rich_MorinFW is violating the POLA for me. see http://foswiki.org/Sandbox/UseInclude and http://foswiki.org/Sandbox/DefInclude [02:07]
FoswikiBot[ DefInclude ] [02:07]
SvenDowideitits a way to exploit setuid on sudo to get root without being in the sudoers [02:08]
gac410yikes [02:08]
SvenDowideitSvenDowideit will wait for the translated version Rich_Morin :P [02:08]
Rich_MorinSpecifically %xxxname% doesn't expand when used as a parameter to verbatim
POLA - Principle of Least Astonishment
[02:09]
SvenDowideitSvenDowideit is astonished.
oh, it might be it has to be in caps
someone somewhere decided that variables were allcaps
but i didn't think they enforced it
mmmm, verbatim - tabeoutblocks,, ooooooooh
yes, call it a bug
i _think_ that takeoutblock might have taken the verbatim just before the include param expansion
thats a nice bug
[02:09]
Rich_Morinwill wait for the translated version [02:12]
SvenDowideitraise a task, make it urgent and look at the render code that does the takeOutBlocks
verbatim sections are taken out and made special
but iirc in the process we take out the <verbatim>bit too
which as you've found, is a tad simplistic
[02:13]
Rich_Morinseems to fail for pre's, as well [02:15]
SvenDowideitit would
its how takeOutBlocks works
and might not be trivial to change
[02:15]
Rich_MorinCan you think of a workaround? [02:16]
SvenDowideitbut it a pain
if you're using it to drive syntax things
then you may need to make one section per type, which is naf
if its justa css class, then maybe wrap it in a div
[02:16]
Rich_MorinGiven that whole point of this is to DRY things out... [02:17]
SvenDowideitor try js :(
main thing would be fix it so it goes out in 1.1.5
as that might happen in the next week or 3
[02:17]
Rich_MorinI don't think I understand it well enough to write the bug report [02:18]
SvenDowideitjust paste what you see here
:)
but i recon you could (if you needed) grep for takeOutBlocks and you'd figure out whats naf :)
basically - the entire <verbatim...../verbatim> string is replaced by a magic marker
and then the remainder of the topic is expanded
[02:18]
quazimodopharvey: :D [02:19]
SvenDowideitthen the magic marker is replaced
and tada
[02:19]
quazimodohey did you get that list, irssi died on me and i dont have a history of where i was up to [02:19]
SvenDowideitbut you rightly need the <verbatim ...> bit to also be processed by the render loop
oh dear my idea of how to implement jesk's demo extensions idea would like .... linux checkpoint and restore
and thats not here yet
mmm, maybe i don't care that much
[02:20]
Rich_Morinhttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11519 tells my part of the story
SvenDowideit: Are all HTML tags handled this way, or just pre and verbatim?
[02:31]
SvenDowideitfoswiki doesn't know about html in that sense [02:34]
Rich_MorinSo, is it anything within "<>? [02:34]
SvenDowideitno
the problem is that verbatim and pre sections are taken out of the txt that is being rendered to protect them from the rendering loop
and then put back in
and we're clearly a little overly zealous in that action
its better not to think in terms of tags being processed, and more that foswiki rendering is still a naive string macro tool with some 'optimisations'
if pharvey ever gets Foswiki::DOM working, we can look forward to a whole new suite of bugs
[02:34]
FoswikiBothttp://trunk.foswiki.org/System/PerlDoc?module=Foswiki::DOM [ (Foswiki login) PerlDoc ] [02:37]
SvenDowideitbut that would improve the conceptualisations
times up for the day :) kids back home
[02:37]
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pharveyFoswiki::DOM will make everything better. takeOutBlocks is like kicking puppies! [03:32]
FoswikiBothttp://trunk.foswiki.org/System/PerlDoc?module=Foswiki::DOM [ (Foswiki login) PerlDoc ] [03:32]
pharveyquazimodo: I did get your list, but you didn't say what I could do with it :P It would be great if you could create a FoswikiFirstImpressions type topic in Development [03:32]
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STORE2 MERGE-O-MATIC 5000 [04:12]
gac410hang on to your hats... Is STORE2 on the way? [04:12]
pharveyhaha, no, just less stale store2 branch on github [04:13]
gac410ah. Things stay stable for just a bit longer :-D [04:13]
pharveyI've picked so many fights, I'd better not drop the ones I already over-committed to
gac410, interesting read about DigestJ - I hadn't realised it depends on flexible WWW-Authenticate headers
argh, it turns out I still need to mangle UnitTestContrib a tiny little bit more
[04:13]
gac410hm. I think I recall looking at that DigestJ when I was looking into bcrypt. yup - even have it installed. But the server side is implemented in php :-( [04:19]
pharveyI never thought of myself as a language snob, but cluttering the global namespace with 3000+ functions with different calling conventions, some for mysql and some for postgres, that just never sat right with me :)
pharvey understands lots of nice stuff is done in PHP, which is proof that the language you use shouldn't matter
[04:21]
gac410iirc, it seemed that php was working at a lower level than our perl code - hmmm that was strange - disconnected from freenode for a moment. everything else stayed connected. [04:24]
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pharveyCDot, SvenDowideit - can somebody please run the SpreadSheetPlugin tests, and tell me you get suite passed or fail?
pharvey needs a sanity check
[07:53]
CDotSpreadSheetPluginTests has 6 unexpected results (of 90):
* F: SpreadSheetPluginTests::test_IF
* F: SpreadSheetPluginTests::test_LISTRAND
* F: SpreadSheetPluginTests::test_LISTSHUFFLE
* F: SpreadSheetPluginTests::test_SETIFEMPTY
* F: SpreadSheetPluginTests::test_T
* F: SpreadSheetPluginTests::test_TODAY
----------------------------
84 of 90 test cases passed(84)+failed(0) ok from 90 total, 0 skipped
[07:58]
pharveyok, thanks
that's really odd... doesn't show up in the FoswikiSuite summary
[07:58]
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GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 9 new commits to master: http://git.io/6F_IaA
[foswiki/master] Item11135: Add populateNewWeb, getWebObj, removeFromStore - PaulHarvey
[foswiki/master] Item11135: Remove all Foswiki::Meta-> calls - PaulHarvey
[foswiki/master] Item11135: CommentPlugin Foswiki::Meta purge - PaulHarvey
[08:18]
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11135 [ Item11135: store2: Development.SimplifyTheStoreMetaSemantics ]
http://trunk.foswiki.org/System/PerlDoc?module=Foswiki::Meta [ (Foswiki login) PerlDoc ]
[08:18]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/EEQ2Fw
[foswiki/master] Item11135: fix the fix: AdminOnlyACLTests - PaulHarvey
[foswiki/master] Item11135: Fix the fix again, ConfigureTests - PaulHarvey
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GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 4 new commits to Release01x01: http://git.io/0zpb6A
[foswiki/Release01x01] Item11135: Add populateNewWeb, getWebObj, removeFromStore - PaulHarvey
[foswiki/Release01x01] Item11135: Remove all Foswiki::Meta-> calls - PaulHarvey
[foswiki/Release01x01] Item11135: fix the fix: AdminOnlyACLTests - PaulHarvey
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GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 3 new commits to Release01x01: http://git.io/FZlk4Q
[foswiki/Release01x01] Item11135: CommentPlugin Foswiki::Meta purge - PaulHarvey
[foswiki/Release01x01] Item11135: HistoryPlugin Foswiki::Meta purge - PaulHarvey
[foswiki/Release01x01] Item11135: MailerContrib Foswiki::Meta purge - PaulHarvey
[09:30]
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11135 [ Item11135: store2: Development.SimplifyTheStoreMetaSemantics ] http://trunk.foswiki.org/System/PerlDoc?module=Foswiki::Meta [ (Foswiki login) PerlDoc ] [09:30]
jayen_pharvey: have you had a chance to look at any tml2html2tml issues? otherwise, i'll look over the next few hours [09:44]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 4 new commits to Release01x01: http://git.io/yBfAFQ
[foswiki/Release01x01] Item11135: SpreadSheetPlugin Foswiki::Meta purge - PaulHarvey
[foswiki/Release01x01] Item11135: TwikiCompatibilityPlugin Foswiki::Meta purge - PaulHarvey
[foswiki/Release01x01] Item11135: TopicUserMappingContrib Foswiki::Meta purge - PaulHarvey
[09:45]
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jayen_pharvey: oh i see patches, glad i checked the task. i didn't get any email notifications
pharvey: oh maybe not. the patches look like they just affect the test infrastructure
[09:46]
CDotCDot has switched from gdm2 to gdm3 and is dismayed by the performance. gdm2 is removed in wheezy, so no future there. Any recommendations for a fast desktop? [09:58]
mtempest_mtempest_ runs foswiki locally for the first time in months! Yay! [10:03]
pharveyjayen_: sorry, I had time slated to do wysiwyg during the week at $work, but something rather urgent popped up :/ [10:08]
jayen_no worries
just wrapping my head around the html2tml code right now
[10:09]
pharveyawesome!
and we have mtempest_ here too :)
first step would be to add your test cases to the unit tests
[10:09]
jayen_i think i want to add a _handlePRE function [10:09]
pharveyand CDot
CDot, I've taken to an old fashioned startx into xfce, but that proved disasterous on my laptop, broken power management problems all over the place
so now I startx into kde, which knows how to hibernate & sleep & resume properly, but it doesn't really matter anyway: damn KDE chews so much battery power I might as well throw the battery away
[10:10]
CDotCDot is still on squeeze on the laptop, so gdm2 is good. But I went to wheezy on the desktop. [10:11]
pharveyokay, that's an exaggeration, but it's frustrating to feel like my linux is going backwards [10:11]
CDotCDot hated KDE when he used it for a while 5 years ago, and has never given it another chance [10:12]
pharveythat describes me too [10:12]
jayen_\me started using kde 5 years ago, too, switched from windowmaker and never looked back [10:12]
pharveyand it still feels uncomfortable - I've heard some people swear by konsole, but it's full of usability problems (or I'm just too gnome-ified to give it a chance)
but I'll be damned if I'm going to suffer gnome3
[10:12]
CDotdamn, I'm quite happy with gdm2. Even gdm3 in gnome classic mode is OK. But why is it so f**king slow? [10:13]
pharveydidn't you hear? Gnome is for tablets now! Tablets which have 800Wh batteries attached [10:13]
CDotpfffft [10:14]
pharveybut, you may find if you nuke compiz & cairo stuff, it'll be a lot faster
pharvey tries to remember if that's just a matter of using something other than metacity window manager
[10:14]
CDotI forgot; the age of the home computer is over (yet again). The future is mobile devices! (until someone re-discovers how useful general purpose computing actually is)
good point about compiz. my card is pretty old.
[10:14]
pharveypharvey tries to imagine the 6 people running debian on some sorta tablet, and then hopes they're happy, because I imagine I'm not alone in feeling like the rest of us have been abandoned [10:16]
CDotCDot tries to work out how to kill compiz [10:16]
pharveyand again, I'm spewing hyperbole, I just feel oppressed :)
jayen_, do you use the konsole or some sort of alternative ?
[10:16]
jayen_i use konsole
haven't noticed a big difference from gnome-terminal
[10:17]
pharveythe immediate problem I had was no alt+N to switch windows [10:17]
jayen_i use tabs [10:18]
pharveyI eventually figured out how to assign keyboard shortcuts, so I'm just left with the annoyance that pressing 'alt' does something funky
er, yeah, to switch tabs
If I have 8 tabs open I don't want to keep bashing on the arrow keys make my RSI worse :)
[10:18]
jayen_the shortcut key is listed int he menu
i don't ecall what it is
i'm on a gnome machine atm
[10:18]
pharveywell, I find I can get used to konsole, even though it does ridiculous things like put the tabs across the bottom, and ignores the terminal title settings set in the shell session, and does strange things if I tap the alt key absent-mindedly [10:20]
jayen_you can put the tabs wherever you like
the terminal title is generally overridden by bash
[10:20]
pharveyI used to make a lot of use the terminal title via bash
something on mine must be b0rked
pharvey clicks around to move the tabs somewhere fun
[10:21]
jayen_i used to have a nice setup back when i used tcsh + xterm
the tab location is somewher ein the menu
[10:21]
pharveyhah! There's actually a setting, 'Tab title format' - and it does not include the terminal title set by the shell, by default [10:22]
jayen_but don't hide the menu unless you know the key to bring it back
i did that once
had to find the file with the setting
i've never played with the tab titles in konsole
i guess i don't use so many shells at once
[10:22]
pharveypharvey replaced the format string with '%w', and is now a happier camper [10:24]
CDotCDot decides to dabble in xfce. Can't be *worse* than gdm3, can it? :-/ [10:24]
jayen_no more than 3 per workspace [10:24]
mtempest_CDot: I remember running metacity --replace from a console. It made a huge difference with crummy video hardware [10:24]
CDotmtempest_: worth a try, thanks [10:24]
pharveyoh! metacity was the cure, and not the problem? My memory has bitrot :)
jayen_: thank you so much - konsole is now configured to have all the features I was missing from gnome-terminal :)
[10:24]
jayen_that's the main reason i use kde over gnome. configarbility [10:26]
mtempest_IIRC, compiz is blingy, and runs well if there is 3d hardware acceleration [10:26]
pharveyI'm not convinced that gnome2 was substantially less configurable than KDE4 [10:29]
jayen_the panels
it's all about the panels for me
i just have a systray on kde
[10:29]
pharveyreally? I find kde's panel widgets have *fewer* options
or at least, on the ones I care about
[10:29]
jayen_kde3 was better
3.5
[10:30]
pharveywell, my official verdict is that KDE4 feels more familiar/similar to gnome2 than gnome3 does... is that strange or what? :) [10:31]
jayen_the widgets may have fewer options, but the panel has more
that is strange
[10:31]
pharveyI haven't found any configurability in KDE's panels that was missing in gnome2, but I haven't been looking
all I'm missing now is better battery life and more magical management of monitors which come and go, as I plug into my dock/projector/etc.
it seemed gnome2 'remembered' the monitor and what to do with it. In KDE I find I'm usually having to remind it how the monitors are situated, each time I plug them in
[10:31]
jayen_one thing is having apps go under the panel, as opposed to gnome where maximizing doesn't actually take the whole screen
the other thing is the position. it doesn't have to be in the center
[10:33]
pharveythat is nifty [10:35]
jayen_i can press alt-f1 without having the menu in the panel
although on kde4 i just use krunne rfor everything
i save battery by turning off kde's 3d stuff. eg. alt-shift-f12
maybe alt-f12
i can't recall
[10:35]
pharveyI already have desktop effects disabled
for whatever reason, there seems to be more resident memory used under KDE, but that's okay, I just need to steal some of SvenDowideit 's spare ram
it's not a huge difference, but enough to tip my 3GB ram into being not-quite-enough to run two FoswikiSuites simultaneously
okay, I'd better commit some store2 stuff
[10:38]
jayen_i only have 2GB
not enough for firefox
getting 4GB soon
[10:40]
pharveySvenDowideit: Foswiki:Development.OptionsForEnhanceIfStatementsAndAttrsParsing I mentioned you in this proposal :P [10:54]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Development.OptionsForEnhanceIfStatementsAndAttrsParsing [ OptionsForEnhanceIfStatementsAndAttrsParsing ] [10:54]
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GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to Release01x01: http://git.io/Wo4rDQ
[foswiki/Release01x01] Item1389: use skip instead of warn...unimplemented - PaulHarvey
[11:32]
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item1389 [ Item1389: Semi Auto Test for SpreadSheetPlugin ] [11:32]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/x4aPmw
[foswiki/master] Item1389: use skip instead of warn...unimplemented - PaulHarvey
[11:32]
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pharveyI can't stress this enough: RcsLite makes FoswikiSuite times much more tolerable
12 minutes on my $work PC :)
27 minutes on my notebook
or, 17 minutes, according to my last run
pharvey wonders who broke HTMLValidation
[11:41]
Hi jayen_, are you interested in svn commit access? [11:52]
jayen_maybe. this isn't the first time you asked me
can i use a github fork with pull requests instead?
[11:53]
pharveyI know :) It's just that you seem to be almost the whole way to pushing some fixes by yourself, which would help me out a lot [11:53]
jayen_i don't test them on anything more than my one test case
i haven't checked out svn before, so i haven't ever run the test suite
or seen it
[11:54]
pharveyare you interested in learning how to run the WysiwygTests? Shouldn't take longer than 5 minutes [11:54]
jayen_so it might be good [11:54]
CDotwell, enabling compiz accelerates things back to where they were with gdm2. But now I only have 2 workspaces, as against my customary 8 :-( [11:54]
jayen_is there a page in the wiki? [11:54]
pharveybtw, git clone git://github.com/foswiki/core && cd core && ./pseudo-install.pl -A developer - this will automatically configure git-svn for you [11:56]
jayen_i'm just really afraid of commit breakage
so i liek pull requests
[11:56]
pharveyah, don't worry about it [11:56]
CDotmetacity performance is better than mutter, but not by much :-( [11:56]
pharveyI'll revert any mess you make
you'll still be using git
it's just, instead of git push, you do git svn dcommit instead
[11:56]
jayen_i've used both
i'm familiar with them
i'm just thinking if i have any reason to use git in this case
i'll just use svn
[11:57]
pharveywell, if you have changes you want to share which *do* create breakage - github is the place to push those branches [11:58]
jayen_well, i'll make sure i pass at least as many tests as the code does without my changes [11:58]
pharveygenerally we don't like to see commits which cause test breakage (of core modules), so we sometimes use github to share works-in-progress [11:58]
jayen_i'm worried about what isn't in the tests [11:58]
pharveyyes, we all are
which is why I'd love to see you add some test cases ;-)
well, for the tasks you've opened
[11:59]
jayen_i don't want to be sucked into being a foswiki developer, so i don't ever want to have 'works-in-progress' [11:59]
pharveyok [11:59]
jayen_i jsut want to do what i'm contracted to do, and leave time for my day job [11:59]
pharveywell, I don't want to scare you away, so if github is what you'd prefer, I can take care of getting fixes you've made available in a branch there somewhere, back into svn
I must stress though, lack of accompanying tests will create more work (and hence delay) for me
[12:00]
jayen_either way is fine. if you're okay with me just using the test suite for testing, then i'm happy to ommit straight to svn and save you the trouble of checking every commit [12:01]
pharveygreat [12:01]
jayen_i'll make tests for my tasks
i have no problem with that
[12:01]
pharveyawesome!
I hope you don't have any problems adding the tests, let me know if you need help
[12:01]
jayen_is there a page on getting started with checking out svn and running the test suite?
brb
[12:02]
pharveypharvey checks
jayen_: http://foswiki.org/Development/SvnRepository and http://foswiki.org/Development/UnitTests
[12:02]
FoswikiBot[ UnitTests ] [12:04]
jayen_ok, got it
i'll get started on Item11440
[12:04]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11440 [ Item11440: Inside =<pre>= formatted text, =<b>=, =<strong>= tags are lost in WYSIWYG transition ] [12:04]
mtempest_http://foswiki.org/Development/DevelopersBible is a good place to start looking for all kinds of developer stuff :) [12:05]
pharveythat too!
boy, it's been so long since I was a new developer :P
you'll need to complete http://foswiki.org/Development/RequestAccessToSubversion before we enable svn access for you
[12:05]
jayen_i'm requesting access to core or plugins? [12:06]
pharveyplugins, I think
WysiwygPlugin is a "default" plugin, but not core itself
but sometimes we refer to default plugins as part of core, which is confusing
pharvey wonders if CDot recalls what 'core' actually means in RequestAccessToSubversion
[12:06]
CDotcheck on the server
CDot hunts for the volume control in xfce before he goes deaf
tip: never change window manager while playing heavy metal
[12:08]
pharveyhehe
jayen_: 'wikiplugins' seems to be everything except the core directory in trunk/, FWIW
[12:10]
jayen_is the request access creating a public page?
woops, http://foswiki.org/Development/JayenAsharWouldLikeToCheckIn
i can't access it, because i didn't include myself in ALLOWTOPICVIEW
[12:15]
argh, svn, why can't you honour http_proxy like everyone else
argh, and why won't you let me set different proxies based on my hostname, for shared file systems
[12:24]
argh, svn, why are you so slow to check out one revision? git could have gotten them all by now
now i remember why i hate svn
haven't used it for 3 years
and i forgot the awesomeness that is git
[12:32]
mtempest_jayen_: http://foswiki.org/Development/HowToUseGit [12:35]
jayen_i know how to use git
and git svn
and git cvs
i've just been using it so long, i've taken it for granted
i didn't remember all the problems i had with svn
[12:36]
mtempest_The point is that you can use git with Foswiki [12:37]
jayen_i'll just use svn for otnight, and switch to git later [12:37]
mtempest_'k :) [12:37]
pharveyhi jayen_, did you mean to make it private? [12:40]
jayen_yes i did [12:40]
pharveycool, just checking [12:40]
jayen_but i made it too private
ie, i can't access my own page
[12:40]
pharveyI'll fix it then [12:40]
jayen_ok, thanks [12:40]
pharveyis it okay if MaintainGroup can work with it too? I'm actually not the one that usually does the svn commit access admin, though I guess I could [12:42]
jayen_yeah, that's probably fine
i just didn't want it to be public
is there supposed to be a build.pl in WysiwygPlugin?
[12:43]
pharveylib/Foswiki/Plugins/WysiwygPlugin/build.pl [12:45]
jayen_ok
thanks
[12:46]
pharveymtempest_, so how have you been? Welcome back :) [12:51]
jayen_is FOSWIKI_HOME supposed to point to code?
is FOSWIKI_HOME supposed to point to core?
[12:59]
pharveyI usually just set FOSWIKI_LIBS - FOSWIKI_HOME I believe is path/to/core/ [12:59]
jayen_ok. the docs should probably say that
i should edit the docs while i go through them, huh
[13:00]
pharveybut then you'd get sucked into that thing you didn't want to do :) [13:00]
jayen_well, no ongoing commitment.
just tongiht
[13:00]
pharveyI really like the style of the MongoDB docs, quite accessible, hardly verbose at all [13:01]
jayen_and maybe more later, if my client really needs a fix and you haven't gotten to it, yet [13:01]
mtempest_pharvey: Thanks :) Life is getting back to a new kind of "normal"
How are you keeping?
[13:08]
jayen_is there a CLI way to use configure? or otherwise generate a LocalSite.cfg? [13:13]
pharvey./pseudo-install.pl -A generates a default config suitable for running tests
sadly, CLI configure is still a pipe-dream
[13:14]
jayen_how long should it take to run the wysiwyg tests?
6 minutes
ok
[13:17]
mtempest_giggle - I have foswiki running locally under a butchered version of tools/lighttpd.pl, such that configure requires basic authentication. However, configure gives me the "accessed without requiring authentication" warning :) [13:30]
jayen_pharvey: does it matter where in the file i put new tests? [13:35]
ok, good, my new test is the only one to fail [13:43]
pharveyjayen_: it doesn't really matter, no. It's helpful to a comment indicate the ItemNNNNN you wrote the test for [13:47]
jayen_i just names the test after th item
i just named the test after the item
[13:48]
pharveycool [13:48]
jayen_i'm glad it didn't break the other tests
but i wonder why it takes 4 minutes to run the translator tests
[13:48]
pharveyjayen_, that's 'normal', I've been meaning to profile those tests, they are indeed quite slow. I believe there's a memory leak in the HTML2TML code, last I checked
jayen_, you can run an individual test of interest, by doing ../bin/TestRunner.pl TranslatorTests::test_mytest
[13:50]
jayen_yeah, i figured that out. thanks [13:51]
pharveyg'night [13:52]
jayen_doh
my test failed
and i don't understand
[13:52]
.............. (idle for 1h8mn)
ArthurClemensI am in the process of rewriting DataForms. I am now at "Extending the range of form data types". What example could I show there?
Current text:
[15:00]
quazimododo i redirect domain.com/foswiki to domain.com/foswiki/bin/view [15:00]
ArthurClemensYou can extend the range of data types accepted by forms by using extensions. All such extended data types are single-valued (can only have one value) with the following exceptions:
any type name starting with checkbox
any type name with +multi anywhere in the name
Types with names like this can both take multiple values.
But it is too cryptic and it lacks an example
[15:00]
gac410quazimodo, you can do this multiple ways. If Shorter URL's are enabled, then you don't need to do the redirect. (Apache has to be configured to use the view script when not supplied.)
How did you build your apache configuration? Foswiki:Support.ApacheConfigGenerator
[15:01]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Support.ApacheConfigGenerator [ ApacheConfigGenerator ] [15:02]
quazimodocheres gac410
im not sure, still setting up the machine
:)
[15:02]
gac410howdy quazimodo. [15:03]
quazimodobrain hurts, you? [15:03]
gac410If you can control the apache configuration - then for sure, use the ApacheConfigGenerator. And select "Shorter URLs" and it will get rid of the bin/view when possible.
You also don't have to use the "foswiki" directory if you don't want. Most of us eliminate that as well, as Foswiki.org does,
[15:03]
quazimodogac410: excellent
you mean rename it?
[15:04]
gac410no - unless there is a structural reason on the server - sharing w/ another application, just eliminate it. http://site.com/Main/WebHome instead of http://site.com/foswiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome
If you are feeling adventurous, there is Foswiki:Support.NewApacheConfigGenerator which uses some more trickier apache config settings. But also shows exactly what must be set in the Foswiki configuration to match.
[15:05]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Support.NewApacheConfigGenerator [ NewApacheConfigGenerator ] [15:06]
quazimodoim feeling lazy
foswiki is like framework++
lol iwatched the video where linus makes his case for git... just so much lol there
[15:07]
gac410There are some settings in bin/configure that must match the short URL configuration. Most importantly, {ScriptUrlPaths}{view} must be set to empty string when using short urls. Or every page view will result in a redirect. [15:09]
..... (idle for 20mn)
jeskData forms allow you to add structured data to topics. The data stored in the form fields can be used to search and filter topics. The combination of structured data and search queries are the base for building database applications.
---
cant anyone try to explain me what this is actually about?
dont get it
By adding form-based input to freeform content, you can structure topics with unlimited, easily searchable categories. A form is enabled for a web and can be added to a topic. The form data is shown in tabular format when the topic is viewed, and can be changed in edit mode using edit fields, radio buttons, check boxes and list boxes. Many different form types can be defined in a web, though a topic can only have one form attached to it at a time.
---
this is not an explanation for normal people, more for foswiki developers
:D
[15:29]
ArthurClemensjesk: see work in progress at http://foswiki.org/Sandbox/DataFormsRewrite [15:37]
jeskoh cool!
ArthurClemens, you guys are awesome :)
lets read that
(i just have that feeling that foswiki is that awesome, without really knowing:)
are there more of these rewrites available yet?
[15:39]
ArthurClemensnot that I know of
jask, I don't know if that was you yesterday as foswiki_irc3, but I was triggered to actually read that page and found it appalling
jesk that is
there are many more that would need this kind of effort
I am surem but it takes time and devotion
[15:44]
jeskhaha no, i was not, so you heard yesterday about complains and rewrote it suddenly? :D [15:48]
ArthurClemensit is a often heard complaint that our documentation is extensive but hard to understand as beginner
a number of explanations are offered on the Support web, but still many included docs are too complex
I would love to see a complete rewrite of it all, but let's take it one at a time now
[15:50]
gac410One huge challenge is that the line between "developer" and "user" is very blurred in Foswiki. The skill set and initial assumptions of who can "develop" with Foswiki vary widely. Generally anyone that edits a topic has the opportunity to "develop". [15:53]
ArthurClemenswhat I am trying to do with DataForms is to start with a general introduction where concepts are explained.
then gradually move to details
[15:55]
......... (idle for 44mn)
DEU106130hello - does anybody know if UploadPlugin works or not?
on my 1.1.3 installation of Foswiki on Win 7 and strawberry it dosn't
[16:40]
gac410DEU106130: What happens on your system? [16:43]
DEU106130if i click on the butto upload nothing happens
if i click on the button more the browser jumps to the first line of the topic
[16:43]
gac410Any javascript errors reported by the browser? [16:44]
DEU106130no error messages [16:44]
gac410(I have not used the plugin, so just guessing a bit here)
What browser are you using? Errors might not be obvious.
[16:44]
DEU106130Firefox 10 [16:46]
gac410Okay - errors would be a little red x in the upper right corner ... [16:47]
DEU106130sorry - no red x (only the one to close the browser ;-) )
also no error messages in the "Fehlerkonsole"
stop - there are some
[16:49]
gac410Okay - so a green checkmark then. (if you hover over it, it will say no javascript errors. ... I'm installing the plugin on my ff [16:50]
DEU106130Fehler: jQuery is not definedQuelldatei: http://de-l-0190287/foswiki/pub/System/UploadPlugin/upload.jsZeile: 141 [16:50]
gac410Hm. my german is not so good. Google translate doesn't translate definedQuelldatei: not sure what it's saying [16:52]
DEU106130it means something like:
error: jQuery is not defined
source file: http://.....
[16:52]
gac410hm. I'm working through the install - seeing if I can get it working. Unfortunately the author is not around right now.
Okay - I'm getting the same error. :-(
[16:55]
DEU106130_there is a second error message
error: $(el).find("table.foswikiTable").attr("rows") is undefined
source file: http://de-l-0190287/foswiki/pub/System/PatternSkin/pattern.js
row: 2
[16:56]
gac410I think that is unrelated - I get the JQuery is not defined error as well,
Hm. The upload worked for me. The Less and More buttons don't work, but the upload did. But something is wrong with that jquery error.
[16:57]
DEU106130my upload didn't work
the funny thing ist - if i move the mouse above the upload button it seems to be something like a link to the topic with an additional # which i only know as a symbol for an anchor?
[16:59]
gac410right. That's normal for actions when they are performed by JavaScript [17:00]
ArthurClemensDEU106130: what version of pattern skin are you using? [17:00]
HarryWhitewaterHello, where can i find a short instruction how install foswiki hosted at my provider? [17:01]
DEU106130where can i find the info regarding pattern skin?
if you mean the version of the patternskin topic it's 11024 (5.4.12)
[17:02]
gac410HarryWhitewater: We don't really have a setup guide specific for hosted sites. There is an old support topic - Foswiki:Support/HeckHowToSetupTwikiOnDreamHost that might be helpful. Change all mentions of TWiki to Foswiki. [17:06]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Support/HeckHowToSetupTwikiOnDreamHost [ HeckHowToSetupTwikiOnDreamHost ] [17:06]
HarryWhitewatergac410 - Thank you [17:09]
gac410DEU106130: Not sure what is going wrong with UploadPlugin. It appears that it needs some work.
HarryWhitewater: Looking through that topic, it is proabably badly out of date in places.
[17:09]
ArthurClemensDEU106130: in version 5.4.17 of PatternSkin a bug in the attachment counter was fixed [17:10]
gac410But it might give you some good hints
DEU106130: I've tried UploadPlugin on 1.1.4 - but it's worse - more errors. This probably needs MichaelDaum's help.
[17:10]
DEU106130do you use the pattern skin 5.4.17 ArthurClemens recommended? [17:13]
kip3fHarryWhitewater: please see the INSTALL.html file included in the download. It includes sample .htaccess files needed for shared hosting. [17:14]
.................................................. (idle for 4h6mn)
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to Release01x01: http://git.io/qMaszw
[foswiki/Release01x01] Item11383: doc rewrite - ArthurClemens
[21:20]
***GithubBot has left [21:20]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11383 [ Item11383: General documentation task for 1.1.5 release ] [21:20]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/l6lSkg
[foswiki/master] Item9693: doc rewrite - ArthurClemens
[21:20]
***GithubBot has left [21:20]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item9693 [ Item9693: Documentation updates for Foswiki 2.0 ] [21:20]
.......................... (idle for 2h9mn)
SvenDowideitoho
i'm both likeing and not the commits to unit test contrib :)
and the 'not' bit is cos i want store2 now :)
today's job, write TWiki2FoswikiImport code :/
which when i think about it, is an update to TWikiCompatibilityPlugin
mmm, pharvey did you or gac410 tweet the cve fix?
[23:29]
pharveyno
SvenDowideit, half-way through a store2 merge last night, should be able to finish off tonight
(no I didn't tweet the CVE fix)
[23:31]
SvenDowideitseriously.... AWESOME [23:32]
pharveyit's been a while, so it's hairy :P [23:32]
SvenDowideitmmm, why's that checking permission req private and hidden?
yeah, and i've not done anything on it since december, so its growning mould
SvenDowideit says - another aussie? squeeeeeee
[23:32]
jayen_yeah, i can do that [23:35]
pharveypharvey wonders if thunderbird's lightning addon's inability to accept invitations received while I didn't have the plugin installed, is a feature [23:35]
SvenDowideithehe
it wouldn't be if mozilla was a hot new startup, but >:}
[23:35]
jayen_pharvey: i don't understand the translator test i made. why didn't b get converted to strong in tml2html? [23:36]
pharveypharvey looks [23:37]
jayen_done [23:39]
pharveydone [23:40]
jayen_i'm going to take off. i'll be back in a few hours. [23:42]
SvenDowideitgac410, can we just use Development.ImprovedRESTSupport401 for all 401
and not split it needlessly
its not that hard to rename the topic
I can't actually find anyone with a voice against being consistent and using 401 everywhere
[23:51]
gac410I'd say sure ... assuming we're all going to work on it's implementation and not just do the CDot rest piece.
ie, let's not implement just the XHR 401 and leave rest of it hidden in the REST proposal.
[23:52]
SvenDowideit, but I'm willing to extend that to 401 for all requests if it's deemed appropriate
(quoting cdot
basically, i'm most insterested in fixing the protocol level
[23:52]
gac410y. Now are there design considerations to that. I don't think it's as simple as just convrerting to 401. [23:53]
SvenDowideitsure it is
that is what the code used to do
then it was changed to 400's
er
then it was changed to 302's -> 400's
and i changed the 400's to 200's
but if you can enumerate the design considerations to the protocol responses, perhaps we'd be able to comment on it
(there's so much text there now, that i didn't see anything that suggested that at _that_ level there was anything more todo
[23:53]
gac410No - 2 different things. 302 redirect was always there. The question is did bin/login return 400 or 200. This change would eliminate the 302, (and by inference bin/login) and expect it to all be hanled by bin/whatever returning 401 directly. [23:55]
SvenDowideit302 is actually new
mmm, i think
it was a later addition to tmplauth
[23:55]
gac410It was new before me then. I've always expected it to redirect. even in T* days. [23:56]
SvenDowideity, and that code already exists
as we have transparent redirect code
[23:56]
gac410right. But I think the proposal is to have bin/view just return 401. And totally eliminate any 302. [23:57]
SvenDowideityou turn on a boolean, and it does the redirect inside the server, without the client seeing it
y, and that code is pretty much done
[23:57]
gac410no no no... I don't think so. [23:57]
SvenDowideiti've used it previously - somewhere
anyhoo - thats not a design concern
the simplest impl thing should be - auth test throws auth-exception that gets caught and renders login html
sends that to browser with 401
[23:57]
gac410WHAT??? Of course it is. If view doesn't redirect, then anyone who has implemented client behavior, apache script matching, etc. expecting the 302 will be confuxed [23:59]
SvenDowideitcan you find an eg of that? [23:59]
gac410(Of course it is a design concern) [23:59]
SvenDowideitno, i don't agree
and thus 'of course' is kinda like 'common sense'
[23:59]

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