#foswiki 2012-03-13,Tue

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WhoWhatWhen
***Cervator has left [00:08]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to Release01x01: http://git.io/-utqfg
[foswiki/Release01x01] Item9526: Uncommitted translations in the last 4 hours - WikiTranslationGnome
[00:15]
***GithubBot has left [00:15]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item9526 [ Item9526: Translation work (needed for Pootle auto-checkin - please don´t close) ] [00:15]
gac410Things look good Babar - thanks. [00:16]
Babarok, cool
I've tweaked the crontab so this shouldn't happen anymore
and I think I should go to bed :)
[00:25]
gac410great. Sleep well. I'll get an email out to the Translators [00:25]
Babarok, good luck :)
oh, and we didn't get any unit test failure because of DST? :)
ah right, Australia hasn't changed yet, only US
[00:37]
SvenDowideitau is er, on the other hemisphere!
and..
i now live in a state that refuses to have DST
[00:38]
gac410hm. I'll kick of a test run. [00:38]
SvenDowideit'cos the curtains will fade' [00:39]
Babarsomebody read /. ... or did you really hear it? :) [00:41]
SvenDowideitits one of the real excuses [00:41]
Babarhttp://news.slashdot.org/story/12/03/11/216238/did-benjamin-franklin-invent-daylight-saving-time -- "Car accidents and suicides? Last I heard the Daylight Savings haters biggest complaint was that the extra hour of sunlight would fade their curtains. [00:42]
SvenDowideittis true [00:42]
Babaranyway. nap time. [00:42]
....... (idle for 33mn)
gac410Attention all translators. foswiki 1.1.5 is in String Freeze. Please take come time to review the translation status on http://translate.foswiki.org/ Thanks [01:15]
AlexisHazellIf pseudo-install.pl developer reported some missing dependencies, can it just be immediately run again after the dependencies have been installed? Or does one need to remove the tree and start again? [01:19]
SvenDowideitneither
just install them and go
[01:20]
AlexisHazellAh good, thanks. :-) [01:20]
SvenDowideitthe deps warning/error is only info [01:20]
AlexisHazell*nod* [01:20]
SvenDowideitSvenDowideit giggles about the idea that imports from other wiki's should really be done by copying your old content to be subwebs of an 'Import' web, so you can compare stuff
oh well, shame i wrote an import from filesystem handler first
[01:23]
............... (idle for 1h11mn)
AlexisHazellArgh. Apache won't give me access to configure. :-/ [02:35]
SvenDowideitdelete the bits that secure it :)
or didja go all fcgi on it?
[02:40]
AlexisHazellNo, not using fcgi.
i generated foswiki.conf using the generator, made sure all the references to foswiki/bin etc. were actually to foswiki/core/bin etc.
Options +FollowSymLinks is enabled for bin and pub
[02:41]
SvenDowideitdoesn't the generator secure the configure script separately?
using require blahdibla?
[02:42]
AlexisHazellBackground: /var/www/foswiki is actually a symlink to /home/user/src/perl5/foswiki/ [02:42]
SvenDowideitboooooo :) [02:42]
AlexisHazellHow do you mean "separately"? [02:43]
SvenDowideita few lines later [02:43]
AlexisHazellWith a FilesMatch directive? [02:44]
SvenDowideitcould be (i'm guessing at remembering) [02:44]
AlexisHazellWell within the Directory "/var/www/foswiki/core/bin" section,
There's a FilesMatch section that looks like:
<FilesMatch "^(configure)$">
SetHandler cgi-script
Satisfy All
ErrorDocument 401 default
</FilesMatch>
[02:45]
SvenDowideitmmm, nothing anywhere that contains 'require' or admin stuff? [02:46]
AlexisHazelle.g. Require user foswiki
?
[02:47]
SvenDowideityup [02:47]
AlexisHazellNo, in fact.
Odd.
[02:47]
SvenDowideitin that case, poke your apache error log and see why its not letting you [02:48]
AlexisHazellWell, the error log is complaining about symbolic links. [02:48]
SvenDowideit(what i should have asked second - first q should have been - what happens when you go there)
oh :(
[02:48]
AlexisHazellWhich is why i first checked Options +FollowSymLinks directives were in the relevant Directory sections.
(Which they are.)
[02:49]
SvenDowideitthat'll be something that you'll have to poke around for i thinl [02:49]
AlexisHazell"Symbolic link not allowed or link target not accessible: /var/www/foswiki"
Oh wait.
[02:50]
SvenDowideitmy q is really - why symlink to there
why not add conf file to access /home/user/src/perl5/foswiki/ directly?
[02:51]
AlexisHazellTo the checkout of trunk in my home dir? [02:51]
SvenDowideity
though its painful as wrt file ownerships
i use something nifty (getting link)
[02:51]
AlexisHazellWell, /var/www/foswiki is just a symlink to that entire hierarchy. [02:51]
SvenDowideithttps://github.com/SvenDowideit/foswiki_releases/blob/master/git-foswiki.conf
cos you want topics that are created to be owned by you
rather than some owned by apache, and others by you
else running scripts from the cmdline causes pain
[02:52]
AlexisHazellHm, okay.
So what permissions do you have set on ~/foswiki/*?
[02:55]
SvenDowideit777 - cos its a dev box :)
its basically a tweak on the standard ~/public_html setup
[02:56]
AlexisHazellBut they're all owned by you? [02:57]
SvenDowideityup
its the session files that cause the most pain
and the log files
[02:57]
AlexisHazellWell, right now my dev installation is flatlining, so if it was merely in pain, that would be an improvement. :-) [02:58]
SvenDowideityup, true
'link target not accessible' might actually be more relevant
in that for apache to work
it needs to have x access to all dirs along the path
[02:58]
AlexisHazellHm, good point. [02:59]
SvenDowideitand if you're not in the apache group, that means world rx on your home dir
frustratingly, this is true of suexec too - it needs to access as apache first, then suexec's to you to got further
i never groked why it would not suexec first, but then i've been lazy and havn't read the code
[02:59]
AlexisHazellOkay, thank you, that was the issue - needed world rx all along the path.
So now getting a different error :-) but i can work with that!
Thanks for your help. :-)
[03:02]
SvenDowideit:)
[Tue Mar 13 13:11:13 2012] [warn] [client 2001:dc0:2001:11::246] mod_fcgid: HTTP request length 139264 (so far) exceeds MaxRequestLen (131072), referer: https://localhost:4443/foswiki/bin/edit/Sandbox/ImportExportPluginCheckReport?t=1331608160;nowysiwyg=1
geee, can i have my friggen toys back?
[03:05]
..... (idle for 22mn)
gac410AlexisHazell: I usually use the SuexecUserGroup directive for my test vhost, so that it runs CGI as my local user/group. That way I don't have to deal with Apache file ownership. Though that can have it's own challenges too :-(
Wohoo... no DST errors for the Release11 unit tests - given we started Daylight Savings time yesterday.
[03:30]
SvenDowideitoh. [03:46]
gac410oh? [03:46]
SvenDowideitso - if an pub/WEb/Topic/File.tst exists
but is not in the attachments meta
what should viewfile do?
it _looks_ to me like it says 'nope, does not exist'
that sounds 'bad' and 'good' at the same time - but from a user pov, i doubt its good
[03:46]
gac410hm. That's a tough question. I would say that if autoattach is disabled, it should say nope - does not exist. [03:47]
SvenDowideitthing is
that if you were not using viewfile
then it would just work
[03:47]
gac410Yes. [03:47]
SvenDowideitits only because i'm still using viewfile via apache rewrites that it does [03:48]
gac410But the reason for using viewfile is so foswiki can "protect" attachments. [03:48]
SvenDowideitbut this is not protection
as its not based on the ACL
[03:48]
gac410yes but. you are still asking foswiki to provide access to the file, so it should handle it as any attachment - as defined in meta.
At least that's my interpretation.
[03:49]
SvenDowideiti agree - in theory
but.
do you really beleive that is what most _users_ will think?
[03:49]
gac410well, if they are using viewfile, then they won't see that the attachment exists. so they should not care. [03:50]
SvenDowideitunless this is an old wiki [03:50]
gac410right, view the topic, no attachments, viewfile ... and it's consistent. [03:50]
SvenDowideitwhere things used to just work, and the poor user has had an admin upgrade to the latest magics
:(
bbiab
thinking about what i'm seeing here - this 2004 twiki seems to have attachment,v files
but no attachment meta
[03:50]
gac410running with autoattach? ew.. [03:52]
SvenDowideitand a pile of in topics ATTTACHURL links that don't work because the filename spellings don't work [03:52]
gac410hm. or not. ... broken? [03:52]
SvenDowideitwhich suggests to me
that twiki from back then didn't have attachment meta
could be true, but i don't care to find out
SvenDowideit recons we have another something to test&warn about :(
SvenDowideit ignores the issue and installs the upadteattachments plugni and adds it to the migration script
[03:52]
gac410run your UpdateAttachmentsPlugin to sync the meta. hm. I wonder where I left the updates to it. [03:53]
SvenDowideityou updatoredit? nice! [03:53]
gac410did a bunch of work on it ... hopefully it works. :-) [03:54]
SvenDowideitsssshhhhhhh ;) [03:54]
gac410I think I added some further auth controls. don't recall now. [03:54]
SvenDowideitFoswiki:Main.GeorgeClark - revised for Foswiki 1.1
at minimum :)
[03:55]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Main.GeorgeClark [ GeorgeClark ] [03:55]
gac410:P ... looks like I have some stashed updates to add some further auth checking [03:58]
SvenDowideiti wonder if there's a wonder extension to push all stashes to github
backup syncing your git stash sounds like a pretty useful thing
nice
the first docco eg of cmd line use was broken a long time ago
./rest UpdateAttachmentsPlugin.update topic Sandbox.WebHom
maybe even before foswiki1.0
[03:58]
gac410IIRC I did test it ... looks like I also added some unit tests. [04:01]
Rich_MorinSvenDowideit: http://boingboing.net/2012/03/12/spiderwebs-coat-australian-cou.html - you guys have all the fun animals... [04:02]
SvenDowideitwe have like 7 of the top 10 most deadly snakes too
yeah, those are fantastic images
[04:02]
Rich_Morinnot to mention spiders, jellyfish, ... [04:02]
SvenDowideitthats nothing though - its entirely populated by criminals! [04:03]
Rich_MorinCalifornia has only one poisonous snake and it is polite enough to warn you if you're annoying it. [04:03]
SvenDowideitgrin
we have one that will attack you just for sport - if you come close enough
[04:03]
Rich_MorinI saw a wonderful sig a while back - "Thank God we got the criminals and not the Puritans." [04:04]
SvenDowideithehe
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/03/pictures/110331-pakistan-flood-spider-trees-webs/?source=ig_spiderwebs_wagga_news_gallery
looks awesome
[04:04]
Rich_MorinWe have a special place for rabid, poisonous creatures. It's called COngress. [04:05]
SvenDowideitSvenDowideit says nothing :) [04:05]
Rich_Morinowell [04:06]
SvenDowideitmmm, ok, so somthing not-good is happening
there are >20 META:FILEATTACHMENT lines
but only 3 listed in the attachments table.
oh - duh. lots of 'h'
[04:14]
gac410:) [04:15]
...... (idle for 27mn)
SvenDowideitfor those of you that have commited to foswiki:
http://coderwall.com/i/4f4c298a691e83000a000030/Ih9x39rl234
go on sign up :)
you know i want you too >:D
[04:42]
JulianLevensRich_Morin: In my work on VDBI I've been giving a lot of thought about how to handle links. You wanted to have relative links, so now is a very good time for me to ponder this point. However, there is a key question I need you to answer
Do you need to store relative links, or could the save script merely convert them to absolute links?
[04:46]
Rich_MorinI'm on the phone - can I get back to you in a few minutes? [04:48]
SvenDowideitgenerally, its not great to modify user input is a lossy way - it confuses when re-editing next time [04:48]
JulianLevensRichMorin: I can wait [04:49]
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JulianLevensSvenDowideit: I guess that makes sense. However, my key question is whether relative links need to be stored. I can worry about how to best way to convert them to absolute another time. [04:51]
SvenDowideity, and my point is that if a user enters a relative link, that is what they'd expect to see next time?
and thus you'd need to store that
[04:52]
JulianLevensOK: so let me ask you a different question: how useful would relative links be? [04:54]
SvenDowideitcan you give me an eg? [04:54]
JulianLevensSee http://foswiki.org/Development/SupportRelativeBracketedLinks [04:55]
SvenDowideitoh gads.
what a dangerous hammer
next he'll be asking for [[*/SubWeb.WebHome]] to create 3 links
or better
Main...System.WebHome
[04:57]
JulianLevensWell I have my doubts about this. I'm trying to avoid it, and suggest alternatives [05:00]
SvenDowideit(i detest the / syntax for sub web, and insist that . should be able to be used too)
ie One/../Three.WebHome == One....Three.WebHome
ie One/Three/WebHome == One/Three/WebHome i mean
er
ie One/Three/WebHome == One.Three.WebHome i mean
cos it always has before
so ../Foo also means ...Foo
i recon the core thing is - how often does this cause pain - is it often enough that it needs resolution
and the problem with that q is that i doubt enough of us are using subwebs enough to know
[05:00]
JulianLevensI was also wondering if we are using subwebs enough to know
I am also of the opinion that as we do not really have clear uses cases and pain points to analyse. I should ignore this for now and only revisit it iff it becomes an issue
I was hoping Rich could provide clear and compelling use cases etc otherwise I wont give it any more thought
[05:03]
SvenDowideitprobly - as its not in core
and you've enough existing things to work through :)
[05:08]
JulianLevensy [05:08]
SvenDowideitheck - he might :) [05:08]
JulianLevenscross that bridge etc [05:08]
SvenDowideitbut implementing store stuff is full of things already
have you started looking at the impact SEARCH querys have on your schema?
[05:09]
JulianLevensno. My day job has given me some real 'work' to do, you now for clients [05:09]
SvenDowideithehe :)
same main for me - need more twiki import stuff finished
and i'm really doing the 'last 10%' :/
[05:10]
JulianLevensNo coding to speak of for a few weeks, I try to keep thinking about stuff, which can be really good in refining things [05:11]
SvenDowideityup [05:11]
JulianLevensTalking about work, I need to get ready to go. Hopefully back later [05:12]
SvenDowideit:)
laters
[05:12]
Rich_MorinJulianLevens: I can't really cite a compelling use case. For example, it would be possible to gain a lot of the reduction in path text simply by using %foo%.
That said, if folks start using subwebs a lot, absolute path names are going to start being more and more annoying.
Which is why OSes have relative path syntax...
[05:14]
SvenDowideitthey do?
i thought it was a layer above the FS that had relative paths
and there's a point - foswiki store cares nothing about the content atm - and a written address that might be relative won't get passed to the store that way (at this point)
it'd be expanded by the foswiki core before then
[05:19]
......... (idle for 41mn)
AlexisHazellRelative paths, yuck.
Had to work on a system once where i ended up having to spend a lot of time trying to work out what the person who had specified the relative paths was trying to refer to.
It might have been fine if groups of paths had been moved around as 'bundles', as it were; but since things hadn't panned out that way ....
[06:02]
JulianLevensAs the implementer of VDBI, I vote not to build in support for relative links. If a case is one day made for them then it could always be retro-fitted
Scope creep checked :)
[06:08]
SvenDowideitgrin [06:08]
JulianLevensbye [06:09]
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ChanServ sets mode: +o OliverKrueger
OliverKrueger sets mode: +oooo CDot Colas gmc terceiro
[07:32]
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JulianLevensf.o is being spammed. Who can stop this? [08:27]
OliverKruegerOliverKrueger pings gmc [08:30]
Babarhum, many of us can
got a username?
[08:36]
JulianLevensSee FoswikiSiteChanges there are a few [08:37]
gmcmorning [08:47]
JulianLevensmorning [08:56]
Babarok, I'll deal with that from work, if nobody beats me to it [08:56]
at least I've changed the password for the spamming accounts, but it seems to be spamming a lot [09:01]
OliverKruegerI'm going to delete some spam pages... [09:04]
BabarBabar did that already
so you can find the topics back if you want
[09:05]
OliverKruegerk [09:05]
Babarand I've commented out the spammer accounts by writing SPAM in their password field
so you may delete those
Babar going to work, ttyl
[09:06]
OliverKruegerk [09:06]
CDotjeez, they really were trying [09:06]
CDot killed off the other bogus registrations [09:17]
OliverKruegerJulianLevens: thanks for the notice. [09:19]
JulianLevensno problem [09:21]
OliverKruegersame timestamp? [09:22]
CDotdunno; just looking in htpasswd
Sep 8 2011
may have been a probe
[09:23]
OliverKruegerThere is a very similar spam topic in Trash created by Gladys. [09:26]
CDotright [09:27]
OliverKruegersame pattern...
btw: when do we empty the trashcan?
[09:27]
CDotnow? [09:27]
OliverKrueger;) [09:28]
CDotAdlineSlater3 confirmed spammer
MinerviaSinclair confirmed spammer
[09:28]
OliverKruegerreminds me of implementing a EMPTYTRASH macro... ;)
Minervia and Adlines topics are already in the Trash web.
moving their home topics to "spam".
[09:29]
CDotthat's how I found them :-)
CDot is developing a heursitic spammer-sniffer
[09:32]
OliverKruegeris it safe to edit the htpasswd file on f.o. directly? [09:34]
CDotyes [09:34]
OliverKruegerah, you already commented them out... [09:35]
CDot:-) [09:35]
OliverKruegerabout 500 topics in the trash. the oldest dates back to Jan 2009. [09:37]
CDotany other signs of spamming? [09:37]
OliverKruegernot with this pattern as far as I can see.
I will make a tarball of (data|pub)/Trash and empty the web.
300M with all attachments
compressed
[09:38]
CDotok; shout when you are about to do it, I'm still looking for spam patterns
CDot sees TrasAtatchment1 and TrashAttachment2 topics as well
[09:44]
OliverKruegerOliverKrueger shouts.
I can wait with deleting.
[09:45]
CDotok; /me gives up
nah, I'm not finding anything
[09:45]
OliverKruegerk [09:45]
CDotCDot thinks we should create an admin-only "patterns that spammers use" page for reference [09:49]
OliverKruegerThe spammer did not moved the stuff to Trash, it was moved by Arthur. [09:59]
Is there any rcs commandline magic to revert TrashAttachment.txt to rev 1? ;) [10:06]
***OliverKrueger sets mode: +oo padraig_lennon pharvey [10:06]
OliverKruegernever mind
oops, reverting a topic via the browser carries over all META lines.
[10:07]
Trash is empty now. [10:19]
gmcooh, foswiki is now also a freebsd port!
lagging behind a version though
[10:20]
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foswiki_irc7hi
living there in the channel?
[12:05]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/4J0nYg
[foswiki/master] Item11635: WebSiteTools was still using the deprecated search script - SvenDowideit
[12:17]
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11635 [ Item11635: WebSiteTools was still using the deprecated search script ] [12:18]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 8 new commits to master: http://git.io/MIiw0w
[foswiki/master] Item10659: add filter ordering via hash, make check handler work with params hash, and cope with an report crashes, that way we can diagnose missing dependencies - SvenDowideit
[foswiki/master] Item10659: restrict report output to Admins, as it will contain secured topics too - SvenDowideit
[foswiki/master] Item10659: up the version number, enale but nop if not admin, add TODO for literal url's in text - SvenDowideit
[12:32]
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item10659 [ Item10659: ImportExportPlugin ] [12:32]
JackSpamhi
quick question.. is it possible to display/hide entire rows created by the TABLE macro?
i tried using foswikiHiddenclass for one row, but because of the div-container for that row, it is not renderd correctly by the TABLE macor
*renderd * macro
[12:43]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 2 new commits to Release01x01: http://git.io/U4WNTQ
[foswiki/Release01x01] Item11636: give the user a link to the topic that they think had an atachment on - SvenDowideit
[foswiki/Release01x01] Item11635: WebSiteTools was still using the deprecated search script - SvenDowideit
[12:46]
***GithubBot has left [12:46]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11636 [ Item11636: You are trying to viewfile an attachment that does not exist. lacks a link to the topic. ] [12:46]
JackSpam*rendered [12:46]
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SvenDowideitgac410, oh god.
http://trunk.foswiki.org/Tasks/Item2349
[13:16]
gac410hi SvenDowideit [13:16]
SvenDowideithow exactly we get into the situation where pwd mgr=none, but we're still able to register new users is bejond me :( [13:17]
gac410Yeah, I don't understand the application of that particular combination. [13:19]
SvenDowideityup, i'm going to back away quietly from that task again
luckily, itsa my bed time :)
see you on the morrow
[13:19]
gac410and I need another cup of coffee. g'night [13:19]
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JackSpamanyone here who has worked with the SpreadSheetPlugin?P [14:25]
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CDotJackSpam: unfortunately most of us have been exposed to that particular disease. Please describe your symptoms, and we will see if there are any drugs that can help. [16:50]
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GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 2 new commits to Release01x01: http://git.io/ZTsVMg
[foswiki/Release01x01] Item9526: Template changed - GeorgeClark
[foswiki/Release01x01] Item9526: Trying again after git svn rebase - GeorgeClark
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item9526 [ Item9526: Translation work (needed for Pootle auto-checkin - please don´t close) ] [18:01]
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btiffinWhat's the preferred (ok, really I mean lazy person's) method of getting a TOPICLIST by one particulat author? [20:15]
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AlexisHazell has left "QUIT :Leaving." [23:15]

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