#foswiki 2012-05-07,Mon

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WhoWhatWhen
gac410and the server I use for a couple of production sites is gentoo as well. A **long** time ago it was a disk install of knoppix. and where I worked a couple of years ago it was ubuntu.
And I guess there was a RedHat system that I've blocked out of my memory. I hated that system.
[00:01]
greg4567Was redhat was too limiting? or too bloated? [00:02]
gac410It was a "corporate image" ... much to old. everything out of date. [00:03]
greg4567oh. didn't think of that. [00:03]
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gac410Hm. Do we need a FeatureProposal to add a CPAN module. I think it makes sense to add Crypt::PasswdMD5 - one small module, no dependencies not in corelist Needed to support the default htpasswd encoding. [00:27]
Went ahead and added PasswdMD5 to our shipped CPAN modules. Avoids the issue greg4567 encountered [00:41]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to Release01x01: http://git.io/V73aYQ
[foswiki/Release01x01] Item11821: Add Crypt::PasswdMD5 as a default - GeorgeClark
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11821 [ Item11821: Default htpasswd encoding needs non-core CPAN module ] [00:49]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/9NSKug
[foswiki/master] Item11821: Add Crypt::PasswdMD5 as a default - GeorgeClark
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greg4567On the documentation for installation guide part 2, if I suggest changes to the foswiki.org installation guide, does that automatically get into the distribution version of the installation guide? [00:51]
gac410no. We have a conundrum there. files shipped in the distrubution are under revision control, so updated need to be checked into svn. [00:52]
greg4567Any changes I make may make it more verbose, but simpler for the novice. Would my suggestions be better aired here than contributed to the foswiki.org page? [00:54]
gac410Can you make the suggestions, or post a reworded paragraph or two to a Task?
I know ... darn it, it's a WIKI. :)
[00:55]
AlexisHazellgac410: Would it be at all practical for any changes to the f.o docs to cause a svn commit on page save? [00:57]
gac410We've thought about it AlexisHazell, SMOP (simple matter of programming). We have thought through some of it, I think there might be a proposal. Just no committed deveoper to try to work through it. [00:59]
AlexisHazell*nod* Fair enough. i'm hoping i might soon have some more time to devote to FW dev, rather than on more org-specific stuff. [01:00]
gac410The complexity, is we have (currently) 2 active development threads. trunk (the upcoming 1.2) and release01x01 (probably a 1.1.6). The trunk.foswiki.org web is a "svn checkout". foswiki.org is a tarball install. [01:01]
AlexisHazellNot sure whether it would be a good idea for me to work on that particular issue, though! [01:01]
gac410It is indeed an embarrassing situation. A wiki that can't :) [01:01]
AlexisHazellHow do other wikis solve this issue? [01:03]
gac410tbh, I don't know. twiki attempted to have a separate web per release, or something like that.
AlexisHazell: See http://foswiki.org/Development/SimplifyNonDeveloperEditingofReleaseManagedTopics
[01:05]
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greg4567gac410 -- at 20:55 [+4hr gmt] you asked whether I could ``Can you make the suggestions, or post a reworded paragraph or two to a Task?'' where and how is that done? [01:39]
gac410Oh. foswiki.org/Tasks/ Click the "Create a new task" Component is "Documentation" [01:40]
greg4567cool [01:40]
gac410ah. Don't even need a new task!
You can just comment on Item11746
[01:41]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11746 [ Item11746: General documentation task for 1.1.6 release ] [01:41]
gac410even simpler. [01:41]
greg4567ok [01:42]
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gac410Babar, if you are not sleeping, kip3f found a bug in the commit hook. http://pastebin.com/kaFXrgWY er. Even if you are sleeping, he still found a bug. [02:52]
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kip3f: For when/if you check logs. Tested new plague.pl. Two issues - needs unix line endings, and needs to split the WaitingFor for tasks waiting for more than one user. Works great! Thanks
But I'm stuck checking it in as well :(
[03:37]
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revised version attached to Item11822 [03:53]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11822 [ Item11822: fix plague mail security hole - rewrite to remove usage of eval ] [03:53]
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usepidgin1would be neat to port Foswiki's power to meteor's platform [05:52]
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Babargac410: hum... odd
checking
[06:30]
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ok, found the bug
but fixing doesn't seem to fix
this doesn't make any sense... I test the very same code in local, and it works!
[06:45]
foswiki_irc6Hello, is there anyone who can help with with an default installation. I just tried twiki which installs without any problems and no I can't get the foswiki installation up and running.
I'm just getting a internal Server Error and the log only says: "Premature end of script headers: configure "
[07:00]
Babarok, got it! [07:01]
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GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/POkzNA
[foswiki/master] Item11808: perltidy parameters were incorrect, as Kip found out. Sorry! - OlivierRaginel
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11808 [ Item11808: perltidy check on checkin ] [07:34]
Babarqed. (I fixed it) [07:34]
***ChanServ sets mode: +o MichaelDaum [07:37]
MichaelDaumBabar, no ICalPlugin does not depend on MetaDataPlugin
CDot, HomePagePlugin was causing serious data loss on some wiki apps manipulating the session internals during a save. If the fixes broke the tests, the tests are wronky as well.
Babar, oh sorry.
http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11823
Babar, perltidying non-core plugin was a *VERY* bad idea.
does http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11808 mean *EVERYTHING* is going to be perltidied on check in?
[07:44]
BabarMichaelDaum: yes. And we knew you wouldn't like it
which is why I've been thinking on a way to disable it for some plugins
[07:54]
MichaelDaumI hate it [07:55]
Babaroh, and to be fair, I raised the idea a long time ago, but I wasn't the one implementing it this time ;)
we know you do, which is why we did it when you were on holiday :)
[07:55]
MichaelDaumwhile I can stand the f*ed up perl formating in the foswiki core. I don't want it in non-core plugins for which I use a perltidy cfg of my own.
note also that these plugins are in coordinate with author mode
[07:56]
Babaryes. which is why I wanted to ask you... would you rather not have perltidy bother you at all, or would you prefer it knew your configuration?
yes, but I haven't changed the code
[07:56]
MichaelDaumreverting it means pointless merge and revert for me now
with tons of conflicts
this sux massively
shit
[07:57]
Babargive me a list of your plugins, and I'll revert it
I'll also make sure perltidy won't bother you
and I'll revert also all the lib/CPAN/lib changes I did
while you make that list, I'll go to work :)
[07:57]
MichaelDaumBabar, just perltidy core code and plugins and nothign else
first, please revert the post-checkin handler not to botch the code unasked.
MichaelDaum finished updating his code with 63 conflicts ... and a need to fix them _all_ right now or being left with a broken wiki
there are even new perl errors in the ckeckin
wtf
[08:00]
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BabarMichaelDaum: no, I won't revert the post-checkin, as I wasn't the one who put it there
as I said, I'll happily revert all your plugins, and ensure they're not touched afterwards
[08:26]
MichaelDaumwhoever put it in there: please remove it again.
Babar, no
[08:26]
Babarbut many of us agreed it was a good idea, you're the only one pushing against it. So I can ensure it won't bother you [08:26]
MichaelDaumI am okay with core - not with plugins in CoordinateWithAuthor state
CoordinateWithAuthor doesn't say: fuck em in the arse does it?
[08:27]
Babaroh, and yes, ICalPlugin depends on MetaDataPlugin btw [08:28]
MichaelDaum[09:49] <MichaelDaum> Babar, oh sorry.
[09:50] <MichaelDaum> http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11823
[08:28]
BabarICalPlugin/lib/Foswiki/Plugins/ICalPlugin.pm
22:use Foswiki::Plugins::MetaDataPlugin ();
[08:28]
FoswikiBothttp://trunk.foswiki.org/System/PerlDoc?module=Foswiki::Plugins::MetaDataPlugin [08:28]
Babarit's not really optionnal [08:28]
MichaelDaum... which I can't checkin due to the bastarded post-checkin handler [08:29]
Babarok, you should be able to checkin now
I've *TEMPORARILY* disabled it
until we agre on a course of action
*agree
(at least it should be disabled, let me know if it still bothers you
+)
[08:30]
and Micha... to know what policy a plugin has, I have to find the plugin's topic, and get it from the wiki, and extract this information
which is a real pita.
so I'd rather have a list. And you want a inclusive list, I want an exclusive one
[08:37]
MichaelDaumtry %SEARCH
or look at http://foswiki.org/Extensions/CoordinateWithAuthor
[08:38]
Babarright. For every commit I will trigger a SEARCH [08:38]
MichaelDaumbetter dont fuck the code at all [08:38]
Babaror I could cron that daily, more a JSON version of that SEARCH
right. Or code according to the project guidelines (which we haven't written yet)
[08:38]
ArthurClemenson Item11808 it is not clear if source files are being perltidied or if only a check is done [08:43]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11808 [ Item11808: perltidy check on checkin ] [08:43]
Babaronly a check is done [08:46]
ArthurClemensso the problem is that files cannot be committed if they are different from the perltidied version [08:50]
Babaryes [08:51]
***Babar sets mode: +oooo AndreU ArthurClemens Colas ColasHome
Babar sets mode: +oooo MartinCleaver SvenDowideit terceiro VerboEse|Off
[08:52]
Babarok, started http://foswiki.org/Extensions/CoordinateWithAuthorToJSON?skin=text which I will cron, ensure it's proper JSON, then parse and exclude from the list. Micha, would that be enough for you? [08:53]
MichaelDaumno thats not enuf as it still touches lib/CPAN and lib/[^Foswiki] perl libraries
the recent perltidies under lib/CPAN should be reverted all
[09:00]
Babaryes, this I agree
I removed lib/CPAN/lib from the check
but I was about to revert
s/but/and/
[09:01]
MichaelDaum: about to revert it all. Will you hate me once more? [09:13]
MichaelDaumyes
let me do my checkins first please
[09:13]
Babarok [09:14]
MichaelDaumthen you've got all the hassle now instead of me [09:14]
Babarsure
ah no, wait... you're merging your stuff?!
[09:15]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/0HPytA
[foswiki/master] Item11808: reverting perltidy - MichaelDaum
[09:18]
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11808 [ Item11808: perltidy check on checkin ] [09:18]
MichaelDaumBabar, that's what I have on my harddisk after svn up and fixing it all again. [09:23]
Babarthat I don't understand
just do a mf all the time
[09:26]
***Babar sets mode: +o CDot [09:26]
CDotMichaelDaum: did you see my message about the HomePagePlugin? Your last checking broke the unit tests. [09:27]
MichaelDaumCDot, did you see my last message on your last message? [09:27]
CDotI had a look, but i couldn't see what you had done to cause the failure.
no.... on the Task?
[09:27]
Babaroh, and I had another question for you Micha. What functionnality does ICalPlugin that CalendarPlugin doesn't? [09:28]
MichaelDaumBabar, it implements %FORMATICAL{"somecalendarfile.ics" header="..." footer="..." format="..." separator="..." span="..."}% .... [09:29]
CDotiCalPlugin lets you *put* to calendars. CalendurPlugin only supports *get* [09:29]
MichaelDaumso it is _not_ a frontend ui [09:29]
CDotas I understood it, anyway [09:29]
MichaelDaumit sort of resembles CalDAVPlugin but for local ical files. [09:30]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/ZbTfNw
[foswiki/master] Item8402:Item11808: - MichaelDaum
[foswiki/master] Item11808: reverting recent perltidy - MichaelDaum
[foswiki/master] Item11824: bring back to life and improve ... work in progress - MichaelDaum
[09:30]
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MichaelDaumin addition it allows to sync Event DataForms and MetaData into an ics attachment [09:30]
CDothmmm. The tests just tested the function of the plugin, as in "does the redirect work". Pretty crude.... [09:30]
Babarok, got it now. Thanks [09:31]
MichaelDaumCDot, theres not much to test for in that plugin afaik [09:31]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item8402 [ Item8402: port BlogPlugin ]
http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11824 [ Item11824: bring back to life and improve ]
[09:31]
CDotMichaelDaum: does the iCalPlugin support remote calendars? Or did I mis-read that? [09:31]
MichaelDaumno. I left that to CalDAVPlugin. [09:31]
CDotno, there isn't; but it the tests required some delicate setup (context identifiers) and I thought that might have broken it
so what was the "serious data loss"? and how did you find it?
CDot is OK with fixing the tests, but doesn't know what to test for
[09:32]
MichaelDaumit manipulated {webName} and {topicName} during =save=. guess what happened. [09:34]
Babarit saved in the wrong topic :) [09:34]
MichaelDaumbingo [09:34]
CDotok, so you added context checks to stop it? [09:35]
MichaelDaumy [09:35]
CDotok, that helps. thanks. [09:36]
MichaelDaumit only ever should do somethign in login and view context [09:36]
CDotindeed [09:38]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 8 new commits to master: http://git.io/9c_eDA
[foswiki/master] Item11808:Item4912: - MichaelDaum
[foswiki/master] Item11808: reverting perltidy - MichaelDaum
[foswiki/master] Item11808: reverting perltidy - MichaelDaum
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CDotcrap, the tests fail because of where the initialiseUserHandler is called. Crappy handler.
ah, no, it's because of the topic existence check on the site default topic. That's a big assumption, that the landing topic has to exist. And IMHO it's wrong.
[09:47]
MichaelDaumredirect to a non existing topic? when would you like to do that?
as a "landing page"
[09:51]
CDotit's consistent with the behqaviour of the rest of the system; you can "point" to any page, and if it doesn't exist, you prompt to create
the alternative - to silently redirect them to a different page - is just confusing. "Why doesn't my personal landing page work" etc etc
[09:54]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 6 new commits to master: http://git.io/VAtiYg
[foswiki/master] Item11808: reverting perltidy - MichaelDaum
[foswiki/master] Item11808: reverting perltidy - MichaelDaum
[foswiki/master] Item11808: reverting perltidy - MichaelDaum
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11808 [ Item11808: perltidy check on checkin ] [10:02]
MichaelDaumQ:"Why doesn't my personal landing page work?" ... A:"Please check that it actually exists." [10:03]
***ChanServ sets mode: +o OliverKrueger [10:04]
OliverKruegerOliverKrueger pings MichaelDaum [10:04]
MichaelDaumCDot, also: any topic that does not exist produces a SEARCH on the server... which basically is a BadThingToDo(tm)... [10:05]
CDotMichaelDaum: where is that answer? Not in the plugin doc, not in the FAQs. Of *course* a landing page should exit - anyone who sets one without checking that it exists is an idiot. But that doesn't mean that *foswiki* has to fail mysteriously if it doesn't. [10:06]
OliverKruegerMichaelDaum: I saw your perltidy induced changes on FilterPlugin. Before you create the next release of this plugin, can you probably take a look at http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11807 ? :-) [10:07]
MichaelDaumCDot, foswiki should not try to redirect to a landing page that it *knows* it doesnt exist.
there's no mystery in that. just robustness.
OliverKrueger, will do. thanks.
[10:10]
OliverKruegerthx :) [10:11]
CDotdisagree. behaviour is now predictable and documented. [10:12]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/HWfOZQ
[foswiki/master] Item11808: reverting perltidy - MichaelDaum
[foswiki/master] Item11808: reverting perltidy - MichaelDaum
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BabarBabar loves how Micha works...
I committed it all in one go. But you had to commit each plugin in its own commit. Very convenient
let me know when you're done, so that I can commit my full rollback, and the changes that will ignore plugins which are CoordinateWithAuthor
[10:24]
MichaelDaumBabar, that's because I've got to check each conflict where it came from as there is always work in progress on my checkout area.
some things can't be reverted from my side as the upcoming changes are too bloody unfinished like ImagePlugin for one.
[10:26]
Babarwhich is what I don't understand...
ok. So you should have waited like 5 minutes that I revert everything, and then you would have had a clean tree
[10:26]
MichaelDaumI did an innocent svn up into my workarea and all of your changes clash with mine. pretty simple. and sad. [10:27]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 10 new commits to master: http://git.io/ugN3HQ
[foswiki/master] Item11808: reverting perltidy - MichaelDaum
[foswiki/master] Item11808: reverting perltidy - MichaelDaum
[foswiki/master] Item11808: reverting perltidy - MichaelDaum
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CDotCDot had the same issue, but has learnt his lesson. Now he has pertidied everything in his checkout. :-) [10:41]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 11 new commits to master: http://git.io/niDRvg
[foswiki/master] Item11808: reverting perltidy - MichaelDaum
[foswiki/master] Item11808: reverting perltidy - MichaelDaum
[foswiki/master] Item11808: reverting perltidy - MichaelDaum
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11808 [ Item11808: perltidy check on checkin ] [10:45]
MichaelDaumBabar, I can't revert the perltidy of ImagePlugin and SolrPlugin as there are changes that have to wait to be finished. [10:55]
Babarok Micha, I've got a version of the pre-commit.pl which doesn't check all plugins in CoordinateWithAuthor
ok. May I revert them for you then?
[10:55]
MichaelDaumyes please [10:56]
Babarok
you're done then?
about to go to lunch
I'll commit after
[10:56]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 8 new commits to master: http://git.io/39kgVQ
[foswiki/master] Item11808: reverting perltidy - MichaelDaum
[foswiki/master] Item11826:Item11808: - MichaelDaum
[foswiki/master] Item11808: reverting perltidy - MichaelDaum
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11826 [ Item11826: make at least some <p>s real paragraphs ] [11:01]
CDothmmm. I have a JQueryPlugin that depends on UI, but the css for the plugin is being <link'd before jquery-ui....... is that correct? If so, why? [11:14]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 5 new commits to master: http://git.io/nGwsZw
[foswiki/master] Item11808: reverting perltidy - MichaelDaum
[foswiki/master] Item11827:Item11808: while reverting perltidy - MichaelDaum
[foswiki/master] Item11808: reverting perltidy - MichaelDaum
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11808 [ Item11808: perltidy check on checkin ]
http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11827 [ Item11827: external helpers produce different charset encodings each ]
[11:17]
CDotoh; it appears that jquery UI is included from THEME, not UI. When did that change? :-/
CDot added 'THEME' to the dependencies and it works now. Not sure why. MichaelDaum probably knows.
CDot notes that other plugins (such as NatEditPlugin) list UI in the dependencies, but not THEME
[11:17]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/bVmWvA
[foswiki/master] Item11808: - MichaelDaum
[foswiki/master] Item11808: while reverting perltidy build a new release - MichaelDaum
[foswiki/master] Item11808: reverting perltidy - MichaelDaum
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GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 4 new commits to master: http://git.io/m8UUYA
[foswiki/master] Item11808: reverting perltidy - MichaelDaum
[foswiki/master] Item11808: while reverting perltidy ... - MichaelDaum
[foswiki/master] Item11808: reverting perltidy - MichaelDaum
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jomoseen MichaelDaum [11:47]
FoswikiBotMichaelDaum was last seen in #foswiki 51 mins 15 seconds ago saying "yes please". [11:47]
jomocool :) [11:47]
MichaelDaum: have problems with MetaCommentPlugin. Probably Javascript problem, because the comment is saved (it is showing the next page-reload), but when pressing Save - to the browser i got: "{"jsonrpc":"2.0","result":null}" - IMHO, thats an reply for some Javascript but somewhat it is not handled… Any idea how to debug the problem? [11:54]
MichaelDaumjomo, try upgrading JsonRpcContrib [11:56]
jomofreshly installed - together with the MetaCommentlugin
how to check the Javascript? What javascript must be loaded?
jomo just installing FireBug into FF
[11:56]
ArthurClemensWhat I find missing is the rendering of form fields according to their field definition. We have renderForDisplay, but it is not used when rendering FORMFIELD.
So if I have a date field I want to have it rendered in current time
instead of the plain text value
[11:59]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/tTXB6g
[foswiki/master] Item11806 : add more flexibility for manipulating stored key-values and rendering (just) the value - ArthurClemens
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11806 [ Item11806: Implement datetime format ] [12:00]
ArthurClemensrenderForDisplay is only used in the form on the topic page [12:00]
MichaelDaumArthurClemens, have a look at FlexFormPlugin. [12:05]
ArthurClemenshmm, apparently it is used by SEARCH
does it render form field values outside of the topic?
[12:05]
MichaelDaumlike the formfield values of some distant topic? sure. [12:07]
BabarMichaelDaum: just to be 100% sure. You're done, and I can proceed with my own changes, correct? [12:08]
CDotMichaelDaum: do you have any comment on the THEME dependency I described above? Should all UI dependencies be moved to THEME? [12:08]
MichaelDaumArthurClemens, FlexFormPlugin basically leverages the Foswiki::Form::* api to wiki apps [12:08]
FoswikiBothttp://trunk.foswiki.org/System/PerlDoc?module=Foswiki::Form [12:08]
MichaelDaumBabar, yes I am done [12:08]
Babarawesome [12:08]
MichaelDaum:(
CDot, well the theme css is a lot less sensitive to ordering constraints than js. while js simply breaks, css might look a bit strange worst case.
thats why I probably never came across an issue here
[12:08]
CDotagreed. However I have CSS that needs to override UI (specifically, ui-icon defines display:block and I need inline-block) [12:10]
MichaelDaumlinear ordering constraints in css is a very weak way of enforcing your own rules while cascading css properties [12:11]
CDotsure. If there was another way to do it, I would use it. [12:11]
MichaelDaumwith regards to NatEditPlugin, it doesnt use jquery::ui that much atm .... but will do more as soon as the simplemodal dialogs are replaced with ui::dialog
the other way to apply your own rules is to add a stronger css rule
[12:11]
CDotin this case that would not be easy. It would involve a style attribute. [12:13]
MichaelDaumstarting with things like body.mySkin or whatever container is specific for the snippet within a page
like <div class="funkyContainer"> my stuff goes here </div>
most of the time there already is some dom node nearby that could be specified directly
[12:13]
CDotI have no "handle" for that, unfortunately. I'm not worried, I resolved it usin the linear dependency, but there is no doc to be found to explain that, which is why I asked. [12:14]
MichaelDaumlike: table.foswikiTable is stronger than the normal .foswikiTable rule [12:14]
CDotyes, I know how it works. Doesn't help me much, though. [12:15]
MichaelDaumMichaelDaum not sure what your use case is then [12:15]
CDotI have a bunch of buttons that need to work in various contexts. Some of them need to be vertically aligned, others horizontally
there is no single context for them; some are in divs, some in td's
and no simple naming scheme, as the DOM nodes are automatically named (in code)
[12:16]
MichaelDaumEditRowPlugin? [12:17]
CDotthe easiest way by far to classify them is using a class
yes, ERP.
[12:17]
MichaelDaumoic. there definitely is some "button problem" there [12:17]
CDotthe buttons are just standard UI buttons; this is really an ongoing UI issue, I know [12:18]
MichaelDaumI had the impression that they did not follow http://jqueryui.com/docs/Theming/API [12:18]
CDotI don't even need a solution; I just needed to understand why. [12:18]
MichaelDaumthe jqueryui theming api also gives you hints how to classify the complete edit widget of ERP
... which seem to be missing
[12:19]
CDotyou did? oh. They do, afaik
y, I know there are some classes on the container that could be there. Some day I will sit down and work out which.
[12:19]
MichaelDaumyou need .ui-widget and optionally an .erp-widget with it
the inner content then is covered by .ui-widget-content.
most of the time .ui-widget-content is a separate dom node
[12:20]
CDotI have no way of applying attrs to the container [12:21]
MichaelDaumbut thats not necessarily the case afaik [12:21]
CDotthe table I generate is a |table|
so without generating a new %TABLE tag.....
[12:21]
MichaelDaumbut yo _do_ produce custom html clicking on edit [12:22]
CDotwithin the <td>'s, yes
and I wrap the |table| in a <form>
[12:22]
MichaelDaumbingo
theres your widget container
[12:23]
CDotwell, I'll try it, but I'm not holding my breath
CDot didn't think a form could be a widget container
[12:23]
MichaelDaumgive it a nother div if you prefer [12:24]
CDotwould rather not. trying to keep the markup to a minimum; the reason I generate a |table| is to allow other plugins (SSP, TablePlugin) a look-in
extra markup tends to make that more..... "hazardous"
[12:25]
MichaelDaumcan't you load it via ajax and replace the read-only table with the returned markup? [12:25]
CDotCDot will try the <form>
ERP works without JS
[12:25]
MichaelDaumMichaelDaum hates the page reloading thingy [12:26]
CDotme too. But it's still lurking there in the requirements list for ERP, so.... [12:26]
MichaelDaumthere is no "without JS"
there is only "without IE"
[12:26]
CDotpffffft [12:29]
BabarMicha: how did you merge it?! [12:32]
anyway, doesn't really matter. I'll revert only what you haven't done already, so I won't be bothered by your checkins
weird... it seems I have changes in ATP
[12:37]
MichaelDaumBabar, did you already check in? [12:39]
Babarno
I'm making sure what I'm about to check in is correct
ok, I'm ready
so Micha, unless you want to squeeze in a commit, I'll revert the rest of the CoordinateWithAuthor plugins, and the CPAN libs
[12:39]
MichaelDaumyea go for it. am ready to take it all.
there's a new ICalPlugin released that removed the hard dependency on MetaDataPlugin
[12:41]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/CyUkYw
[foswiki/master] Item11823: made dependency on MetaDataPlugin optional - MichaelDaum
[12:47]
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11823 [ Item11823: make MetaDataPlugin an optional dependency ] [12:47]
Babarok, sent.
Babar still to make sure with gac410 that I haven't rolled back any of his changes, but I haven't found any
ok, it's in, and the new pre-commit.pl is active
Micha, fire at will, and let me know if it still bothers you
[12:51]
padraig_lennonHi MichaelDaum [12:58]
Babarok, revert done. Hope everybody is happy now :)
speaking of the devil... ;)
[12:59]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/n444yA
[foswiki/master] Item11808: Prevent perltidy from tidying up plugins which are in CoordinateWithAuthors. List is updated automatically daily - OlivierRaginel
[13:00]
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11808 [ Item11808: perltidy check on checkin ] [13:00]
gac410Howdy Babar [13:00]
BabarHowdy gac410 ;)
oh, I should comment also on the task...
[13:00]
padraig_lennonI upgraded FilterPlugin this morning to 3.00.. Since I did a number of my WikiApps have broke.. Do I need to change something? See here for an example: http://pastebin.com/TqNhHPHm
How do I revert to the previous version?
[13:01]
Babarpadraig_lennon: speaking of WikiApps... where are we with your little project that you started at CERN? :) [13:07]
gac410Babar, I don't think I had anything that would have been impacted by the tidy/rollback [13:08]
Babarthat's what I thought too.
you're the only one (with Micha and Arthur) who committed stuff in-between
[13:08]
gac410padraig_lennon: If you are on 1.1.4 or 5, there will be a backup tarball of the updated extension. Assuming you used the extension installer and did't manually install with tar/unzip
Backup file is in working/configure/backups or something like that.
[13:08]
padraig_lennonWorking (if you call it that..) on a local version here.. Havent had a minute lately to even go near it.. gac410.. How do I tell configure to revert?
Just reverted there.. Apps are working again..
[13:09]
gac410sorry - that part is manual ;) untar the backup from the foswiki root. [13:10]
padraig_lennonJust looks like regex searches are not being handled correctly..
by FORMATLIST
Will try to move away from the regex searches..
tomorrow :)
[13:10]
CDotlook slike f.o has been spammed again :-( [13:15]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to Release01x01: http://git.io/uYdqTw
[foswiki/Release01x01] Item11808: revert perltidy on all lib/CPAN - OlivierRaginel
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GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Krkyow
[foswiki/master] Item11808: revert perltidy on all lib/CPAN and all plugins which are CoordinateWithAuthor, as requested by Micha - OlivierRaginel
[13:18]
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CDotoh; no, it's not a spam, it's Arthur's rolling advertisement for "built with foswiki" :-8 [13:19]
Babarright.
Babar had a few checks on the sites "built with foswiki", and 2 (or 3?) of them no longer run FW
shall we remove them?
[13:20]
gac410might be a good idea :) [13:21]
MichaelDaumpadraig_lennon, sorry for the breakage. what exactly is broken?
as I don't have the data to repro the app in the pastebin
[13:31]
CDotCDot has committed the new multi-level sequential-access event-based table parser, with abstract object model. Zowie! [13:37]
jomoMichaelDaum: Just installed one fresh foswiki. The only plugin what i installed is the MetaCommentPlugin (got installed JsonRpcContrib too..) The result the same: after saving the comment I got JSON->encoded string as a result exaclty: "{"jsonrpc":"2.0","result":null}". Something is badly broken, really need your advice - what i shall check… [13:38]
MichaelDaumjomo, thats because your JsonRpcContrib doesnt seem to have the redirectto feature added to the extension 10 Jan 2012. [13:40]
jomoso in the repository is some old version and configure install some old version? [13:41]
BabarCDot: didn't have any issue with the perltidy enforcer then? You're the first one to test it :) [13:41]
jomobecause just installed it from "configure" - just 10 mins ago... [13:42]
CDotnah, went like a breeze :-) [13:42]
jomohave installed: our $VERSION = '$Rev: 14609 (2012-04-16) $'; [13:43]
Babar\o/ [13:43]
MichaelDaumpadraig_lennon, arg got the error [13:44]
BabarCDot: and /home/svn/CoordinateWithAuthor.json contains the list. oh... one thing I haven't checked :) [13:46]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/dwpcuw
[foswiki/master] Item11828: abstracted tables parser out of EditRowPlugin to provide a general service for parsing tables embedded in topics. Not currently used by the core, though it will be at some point. - CrawfordCurrie
[13:46]
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11828 [ Item11828: Abstract and core-ify EditRowPlugin's table parser and object model ] [13:46]
padraig_lennonMichaelDaum - Sorry was away from my desk.. [13:50]
MichaelDaumseems as if http://foswiki.org/Tasks/WebHome is broken: the sidebar is gone [13:57]
ArthurClemensI see it has been changed today [14:00]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/cGIFag
[foswiki/master] Item11829: fixed lists not being processed properly before iterating over them - MichaelDaum
[14:00]
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11829 [ Item11829: lists aren't processed properly before iterating over them ] [14:00]
MichaelDaumwhile trying to upload a new release of FilterPlugin I get the following error:
Request to edit Extensions/FilterPlugin failed http://foswiki.org/bin/edit/Extensions/FilterPlugin -- 500 Internal Server Error
[14:01]
ArthurClemensI will revert the page [14:01]
jomoMichaelDaum: I didn't get any redirectto parameter, so in the package Foswiki::Contrib::JsonRpcContrib::Server; the $redirectto = $request->param("redirectto"); returns $undef… [14:02]
FoswikiBothttp://trunk.foswiki.org/System/PerlDoc?module=Foswiki::Contrib::JsonRpcContrib::Server [14:02]
MichaelDaumArthurClemens, and SophieDZelmani seems to be a spam account [14:03]
ArthurClemensok, will remove [14:04]
MichaelDaumpadraig_lennon, are you still editing http://foswiki.org/Extensions/FilterPlugin ?
anyway. breaking your lock so that I can upload a new release.
padraig_lennon, FilterPlugin 3.01 should cure your monitoring_tests
[14:04]
padraig_lennonCool.. Will test now.. [14:07]
MichaelDaumlet me know whethere that worked out [14:07]
padraig_lennonLooks good... Thanks Michael for the quick turnaround... [14:08]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/g5ClKw
[foswiki/master] Item11830: fixed syntax error in init handler - MichaelDaum
[14:17]
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11830 [ Item11830: syntax error in init handler ] [14:17]
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GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Yvuf4w
[foswiki/master] Item11808: reverting again - MichaelDaum
[14:45]
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11808 [ Item11808: perltidy check on checkin ] [14:45]
jomoMichaelDaum: Are you sure, than from the "metacomments.tmpl" do not missing something like: <input type="hidden" name="redirectto" value="%BASEWEB%.%BASETOPIC%" /> ?? [14:50]
........ (idle for 38mn)
MichaelDaumBabar, Please remove whatever blocks me checking in code.
we now have some checker on svn.foswiki.org that prevents checkin in code based on some perltidy regime. this is insane.
it would be okay for core but not for the rest ofthe code base.
this sux and doesnt add any value
[15:28]
bguptawhere do I set registration_enabled? [15:40]
Babarsure. King Micha has spoken, please everybody obey. [15:42]
gac410bgupta, have you checked out the Registration tab in bin/configure? Which mapper are you using/ [15:44]
bguptachecking [15:45]
gac410the registration_enabled is internally set automatically when Foswiki knows it can register users. .htpasswd is writable, for example. [15:46]
bguptaok so color me dumb.. what is the defualt username for config/bin? [15:46]
gac410Is this the first time you've configured?
(asking because the answer might be different)
[15:47]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/MChVZA
[foswiki/master] Item11808: Sorry, don't know what went wrong with my seletion, but few plugins has already been fixed by Micha, and got reverted by mistake. - OlivierRaginel
[15:47]
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11808 [ Item11808: perltidy check on checkin ] [15:47]
bguptaNo but I do it fairly infrequently.. it doesn't allow me to use my wiki user, so I think I have to go back and use the pw in LocalSite.cfg [15:47]
gac410Is it asking when you enter bin/configure, or when you try to save. Two differen passwords :( [15:48]
bguptaohh nvm, I am in [15:48]
gac410oh... what release of Foswiki? [15:49]
bguptaThis site is running Foswiki version Foswiki-1.1.4, Tue, 20 Dec 2011, build 13483, Plugin API version 2.1
Ok it's a bit funky it let me in but didn't take my pw when I tried to save the changes
[15:50]
gac410Two different passwords. The access to configure is controlled by apache, uses .htpasswd. Save uses the password in LocalSite.cfg
The save needs the password used by the "admin" login on the wiki.
[15:51]
bgupta$Foswiki::cfg{Password} = 'blah'; ?? [15:51]
gac410well it's an encrypted string. If you can't remember it, delete that line and you'll be prompted for a new password when you save. [15:52]
bguptathat reminded me.. thanks.. Knowing that it was encrytped that is
SO any idea why https://foswiki.brandorr.com/foswiki/bin/view/System/UserRegistration is redirecting to the login page?
New usergegistrion is enabled
[15:52]
gac410Ah... that sounds like apache? or someone added "view" to the AuthScripts list
probably the latter.
[15:54]
bguptaattach,compareauth,edit,manage,previewauth,rdiffauth,rename,rest,restauth,save,statistics,upload,viewauth,viewfileauth
are any of those wrong?
This install has been upgraded many times and was originally twiki.
[15:54]
gac410hm. Did someone set ALLOWTOPICVIEW or ALLOWWEBVIEW on the System web or topics?
that list sounds okay
[15:55]
bguptaYeah, it's locked down..
I basically don't want unauthenticated users to be able to do anything other than register.
Set DENYWEBVIEW = WikiGuest
Set ALLOWTOPICVIEW = AdminGroup
Set ALLOWWEBCHANGE = AdminGroup
Set ALLOWWEBRENAME = AdminGroup
[15:56]
Babarthen you have to ALLOWTOPICVIEW = WikiGuest in the UserRegistration [15:58]
gac410You needs to unlock registration. On the UserRegistration page (and anything it %INCLUDES% you need to DENYTOPICVIEW = someuser. ... [15:58]
bguptaI think I must need to override the perms on the registration page. [15:58]
gac410yup.
Might also want to unprotect ResetPassword
[15:58]
bguptaseem right?
* Set DENYWEBVIEW = ""
* Set ALLOWWEBVIEW = "WikiGuest"
[16:04]
gac410No - not on the topic. Need to use ALLOW or DENY TOPICVIEW
a deny "blah" allows everyone else. So I think you'll only need "DENYTOPICVIEW = blah" If you set ALLOWTOPICVIEW, it has the side effect of denying everyone else.
Restricting System to the AdminGroup is going to block all user documentation. even things like the editor help
[16:04]
BabarBabar thinks you can set it to an empty space just as well. But hasn't tested in a long time [16:07]
gac410gac410 thinks the same thing but was hesitant to suggest it. ;)
Actually in Foswiki, most of the Web* topics are %INCLUDES of the system web version. So you are probably breaking a lot of stuff restricting System to the AdminGroup
[16:07]
.... (idle for 18mn)
bguptaWell, the only people who need access will be added to the AdminGroup as soon as they have registered.. If there is a better workflow for this, I am game. [16:27]
gac410Will there be any users who are not in AdminGroup? [16:29]
...... (idle for 27mn)
CDotgac410: yes, 1.2 (the tables parser)
htough I'm not proposing to recode the TablePlugin to use it (too cowardly)
[16:56]
gac410okay. thx. :) [16:56]
CDotit's all part of the DemandParsing feature. [16:57]
gac410(It ws just a hint to set the Planned For field :D ) [16:57]
CDoty, fixed it [16:58]
BabarCDot: I don't mind being the BOFH in the thread :)
great. I made him flee :(
[17:08]
gac410Wow you are Mr. Popular today. :) [17:11]
Babarseems so :) [17:23]
.......... (idle for 46mn)
satchHi everyone
oh, thanks @SvenDowideit for creating debian packages!
I'm starting with foswiki and I'm quite happy about it, but today as I was thinking about organizing content I just realized there is no support for subpages
I think nested web would work also in a similar way creating a second hierarchical step
[18:09]
jomosatch: here ARE subwebs, and EVERY topic has his own parent…. so.. [18:13]
satchbut I'm not sure it will work nice with regular plugins
oh yeah, I've read about metadata information stored in every topic
[18:13]
jomoso, i'm not sure what you mean with "subpages"… [18:14]
satchIn my case, I'll be writing manuals like ManualAir, ManualWater, etc... and I'd like to export subtopics as a pdf for example
so I found myself writing topic names like IntroductionAirManual, Chapter1AirManual
Maybe I could use that as a prefix and filter using TreePlugin?
[18:14]
jomoyou can write ManualAir ManualWater into their own topic, and into topic WholeManual you can %INCLUDE{"ManualAir"}% - etc… [18:16]
satchI was thinking about creating subwebs like AirManual and then topics could be AirManual.Introduction, AirManual.Chapter1
oh yeah jomo thats a good option too!
[18:17]
gac410you could use explicit includes, or use a topic form to record the document, chapter ordering, etc., and %SEARCH to generate the INCLUDEs
So each topic has metadata about the containing document, order of inclusion, etc.
[18:17]
satchbut I'd like to prevent topic colision, and because of that thought about creating subwebs
there can be lots of introduction topic as every manual will have one
[18:18]
jomosatch: IMO, you will realize than it is much better having less webs...
and making different webs only for really different things…
[18:21]
satchso the best option should be to use a prefix for each manual and then use includes to create the big document
like AcmeManIntroduction, AcmeMan01HandleThings and then %INCLUDE all them in a single topic for reference
[18:22]
jomoyes, with this style workinge me - but as gac410 alredy told - you can hide the structure into topic metadata and after make a big document with one %SEARCH [18:23]
satchoh, I will wikify both comments for later reference ;)
thanks jomo and gac410
[18:24]
jomoyou probably will run into some (small) problems with Heading-levels - and TOC… Foswiki still not support heading-level-shifting by nested inlcude levels… (as far as i know - maybe im wrong)… [18:28]
satchoh, so maybe I should just limit myself to heading 2 levels for nested topics [18:29]
..... (idle for 23mn)
anyone tried moinmoin? [18:52]
jomosatch: IMO here is _only_ one competitor to Foswiki - "xwiki" (really very good and "polished" wiki). Unfortunately (for me) its written in java and uses DB - not plaintext files. Foswiki (not counting bugs) is really very powerful. [18:57]
satchoh god, I really love the plain files way [18:58]
jastjava... instant disqualification :} [18:58]
satchI just got to know moinmoin when looking for subpages sinomyms before ;)
wow, xwiki seems like a uberpowerful complex wiki
[18:59]
ArthurClemensany opinion on http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11833? [19:00]
jastI better not mention confluence now [19:00]
satchmaybe one day I could try to configure something like this using foswiki http://changelog.complete.org/archives/1182-moinmoin-as-a-personal-wiki-zen-to-done-and-a-bit-of-ikiwiki
I tried confluence, but the model didn't seem to scale very well for my personal needs
I'm using foswiki to document personal projects with several people
I can collaborate with someone, and need to keep materials as reference
so that's a user ...once you hit 10 users, costs are insane for personal use
I plan to explore also data forms with foswiki, and I assume it's one of it's most powerful (and complex to get used to) features
one of the things I envy from moinmoin is emacs mode hahaha I would love it, even thought there is an org-mode to docubook to twiki mode
[19:01]
jomoyou should check Extensions… e.g. Extensions.FullCalendarPlugin and so on... [19:05]
satchI have full calendar plugin, I was more worried about the incoming parser mail extension
if that exists
[19:05]
jomomean something like Extensions.MailInContrib? [19:08]
satchjomo, something exactly like that [19:08]
jomo:) [19:09]
satchI've been the whole day diving foswiki info...at work at home...
I'm trying to evangelize about it at work too
Active Directory integration article was really useful
I almost finished to get it working, and will contribute with some useful tips
[19:09]
jomogood to hear - keep your enthusiasm when you will meet bugs too… ;) ;) [19:10]
satchIt feels really good to be able to contribute with documentation
I'm a diligent bug reporter hahaha
althought most of my bug reports were for emacs
I live into it
well and into foswiki right now!
soo many things to configure
[19:10]
BabarBabar hopes his email to Lavr wasn't as harsh as his to Micha. Stayed calm, and tried to expose a point, not troll. [19:12]
satchMy next step would be to use rsync to get contents from my server to my laptop
It could make it much more useful
even thought maybe I could break something doing both way syncs
anyone tried?
[19:13]
BabarCDot wrote a plugin for ReaWriteOfflineWiki
based on Unison, iirc
*ReadWriteOfflineWiki
[19:16]
satchlovely! [19:16]
Babarbut I don't think it's open source, and he said he had better ways now [19:16]
satchmaybe then I should try unison, as my wiki doesn't have lots of users
Thanks Babar
[19:18]
gac410Babar after fighting through cherry-pick-from-hell syncing up 1.1.4/5 and trunk, I thoroughly support the tidy checks for core+default. And you've suggested several reasonable accommodations for non-core.
gac410 wonders what happens if first line is #>>> and last line is #<<< Does that disable tidy altogether?
[19:26]
Babaryes.
you can try it. Pretty stupid, but it works :)
[19:27]
gac410So it sounds like there are many reasonable ways to work around objections [19:28]
Babaryes, which is exactly what I told Micha this morning
I wanted to do the rollback for him, and then implement a whitelist based on his extensions
he told me to use the CoordonateWithAuthor, which I did, but...
anyway
[19:42]
gac410yeah no sense re-hashing. What's done is done. [19:43]
.......... (idle for 47mn)
jomojust reading Tasks/Item11808 - where i can find foswiki's preferred .perltidyrc? [20:30]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11808 [ Item11808: perltidy check on checkin ] [20:30]
....... (idle for 30mn)
Babarjomo: cp /dev/null .perltidyrc
it's the default :)
[21:00]
jomonearly ok - i'm using -l=0 and -nsfs - others default… ;)
and _never_ use "-ce" ;)
[21:01]
BabarBabar isn't profilient in perltidy's settings :) [21:02]
jomo:P [21:02]
Babar-l == columns, right?
-l=0 means you can have lines as long as you want?
[21:02]
jomoyes, because i have wide monitor.. ;) [21:03]
Babar-nsfs = no space for semicolon, so for ( $i; $i < 3; $i++ ) [21:03]
jomoyes, [21:03]
Babarand you don't cuddle your elses
Babar used to cuddle elses, before using perltidy
[21:03]
jomocuddle = hate…
;)
[21:04]
Babar-l=0 I'd hate. And I have a wide monitor too :p [21:04]
jomowhen need enter another elsif - the cuddled elses mean more work... [21:04]
Babar-nsfs I could live with. [21:05]
jomoi havent any probems with default 72 chars lines... [21:05]
Babardefault is 80 :) [21:06]
jomoyes? i'm again learned something… ;) [21:06]
ArthurClemensworking with Trac issue tracker. You cannot change the issue description! Our bug system is not that bad after all. [21:08]
Babarjomo: as per the doc: Execute perltidy on file somefile.pl with all defaults except use "cuddled elses" (-ce) and a maximum line
length of 72 columns (-l=72) instead of the default 80 columns.
or... The default maximum line length is n=80 characters.
[21:11]
jomoas i told, I can live the default line-length - and i'm not checking into FW (yet) ;)
s/live/live with/
[21:17]
Babaryou wouldn't be able to anyway, with such perltidy settings ;) [21:18]
jomo:O
ArthurClemens: Most things what are done with Foswiki, are really cool. The drawback is: too much bugs… ;(
[21:18]
ArthurClemensyou give us a hand? [21:21]
jomothat was not a critique - only evaluation of the current status - I can't develop, because i'm not agree with your some basic decisions - anyway, i'm an _hardcore_ fw user. d:) [21:24]
gac410Which decisions? just curious. [21:25]
jomoyour - mean not you, but FW "team" at all.. ;)
gac410: 1st - developing new features in the bugged core, instad of really debug (rewrite) the core and only after developing new addons… this is my main concern. It is easier optimise a bug-free code and debugging the optimised one...
mean: It is easier optimise a bug-free code AS debugging the optimised one...
but, don't read me wrong - i love FW.. ;)
[21:25]
Babarbug-free code? Has hell frozen over yet? [21:30]
jomook ok… you know, what i mean...
jomo reading: http://www.murphys-laws.com/murphy/murphy-computer.html
[21:30]
ArthurClemensI would gladly put a thousand monkeys to work to bang out bug free code [21:34]
jomoguys, simple forget what i told… I don't want critique FW team… :| [21:36]
Babarno, but our point is that bug-free code doesn't exist
we know the core is ugly, and it would be much better would it use pure catalyst, or something similar
but... nobody has the will nor the manpower to fix it, so we have to live with it, and it's working great
Gilmar made a great job setting the bases for FW 1.0 :)
[21:37]
jomojomo is todday angry, because not able find where is one bug.. ;( [21:39]
ArthurClemensspeaking of bugs. Now I am getting this one: Can't use an undefined value as a symbol reference at /data/foswiki/lib/Foswiki/Request/Upload.pm line 86.
when trying to attach
also mentioned a short while ago: http://irclogs.foswiki.org/bin/irclogger_log/foswiki?date=2012-04-04,Wed&sel=224#l220
FW 1.1.5
it 'ought' to be fixed in http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item9418
oh, but that was fixed in trunk only
[21:43]
jomo5.14 here - upload without problems… 1.1.5 [21:47]
ArthurClemensin 2010
y, of course it will be specific to this setup
[21:47]
gac410Didn't it get merged? foo. [21:47]
Babarwhen did we branch 1.1? [21:48]
gac410I suspect some of this stuff is very sensitive on CGI versions. One of those related to "Don't use CGI version blah..." things that we can't figure out who declared it bad or why. [21:49]
Babar5 October 2010
so it is in 1.1.x :)
still, this piece of code needs a check that $fh is defined, otherwise it should die with bells and whistles
[21:49]
ArthurClemensCGI version 3.51, that one is not listed
if it dies silently you still cannot upload, right?
there might be funny things going on with the authentication system
[21:53]
Babarcould be [21:56]
jomooooo wow. Attachments in 1.1.5 works nice with utf8 names… Cool! Thanx! :) [22:01]
gac410jomo: agree somewhat. The challenge with foswiki is to try to maintain compatibility with twiki while moving foswiki forward ... Many twiki/foswiki installs are inside corporations. With plugins that we can't see, using the older APIs. And older wiki apps are very frequently regex based, meaning touching TML layout is dangerous.
A common challenge with older more mature software. Remodeling the aircraft in-flight
1.2 and 2.0 has some fairly major changes. Store is being rewritten. The UTF8 work is stalled because there is nobody stepping up to test,
But certainly if you find bugs, open tasks. And if you think it is critical enough to block an upcoming release, mark it urgent.
[22:01]
jomogac410: agree - here is only _one_ right solution. Start works on modern core simultaneusly and froze the old one at some moment. It is impossible maintain old things forever… imo..
gac410: when i'm working actively with FW, filling reports on daily basis.. ;) /joking/
[22:06]
gac410There was an effort to convert the core over to plac (sp?) framework. It started at last year's foswiki camp. But work has somewhat stalled. [22:07]
Babarplack [22:09]
jomoAd testing - I simple havent enough perl-skill to writing test-units. (i never used Test::_anything_ yet). All my web-based perl-project works well (now mostly PSGI/Mason) and never wrote any test.. i knwo this is bad - but never find enough time learn Test::* modules.. [22:09]
gac410thanks. All I could come up with is dental hygiene :D [22:09]
jomoi'm happyly using foswiki with Starman (PGSI) half year ago in production… works without flaws - but only in PSGI/CGI emulation. Anyway, that giving me 5 min installation, and really good speed.. ;) [22:11]
gac410The foswiki test framework is it's own beast. I said similar things. But eventually discovered I could cut/paste test subroutines with minor changes in many cases. [22:11]
Babaryeah, I think AndrewJones did some basic work to make it work better with plack, but I haven't heard from him much since the summit [22:12]
gac410Two huge values to test cases. 1) allows easy repeated debugging. Testing a TML->HTML->TML round trip is so much easier to add a couple of strings to TranslatorTests, than to wysiwyg a topic repeatedly. and...
2) points out when the next dev. breaks what you fixed. :)
[22:13]
Babarand 3) allows devs to hack around and refactor / rewrite stuff without being afraid they broke everything [22:14]
gac410Also as I discovered with Wysiwyg. TMCE also munges up the HTML. So the unit test is a way to separate out functions. [22:14]
jomoyes i agree with test units - my problem is my not enough deep knowledge... :x
i would be happy help somewhat with utf8 testing - but don;t know how… so, need learn a bit.. (or more) :)
but again - the core is "octet" based .. ;( too bad to write clean code...
[22:15]
Babarright... you know how long it took for Catalyst to support utf-8? [22:19]
gac410Exactly. An effort was started to convert core to UTF8. (Was it CDot?) but it stalled without testing and advice from sites that would need UF8
I think he checked in a UTF8 converter, didn
didn't he?
[22:19]
jomonah, i;m not catalyst fan, but i know utf8 problems. e.g. Mason not utf8 clean too - and it is really new and modern system... [22:20]
Babarhis unicode branch is on github [22:21]
jomowill check it.. ;) - guys, again - i know than FW contain enormous volunteer work… i'm happy with it - my comments based on my own preferences - and based on comments of my users… i understand than here is a legacy and so.. and must say, every release is much better - only priorities are a bit different of my needs… [22:26]
gac410jomo from legacy, tw* had ~0 test cases. (very few) 1.0.10 was 1951 test cases. 1.1.5 is 2983 cases, with 75023 "assertions" trunk is similar as pharvey has done great work unifying the test framework
And still we find places without test coverage. :(
[22:28]
jomoomg - incredible amount... [22:29]
gac410so another big downside of the unit tests ... they take too long to run :(
It's been a couple of years in the making, but the test case coverage makes it easier for the devs to make major changes. You generally know right away what you did wrong.
[22:30]
jomofor my PSGI/CGI Foswiki would be nice run those tests - i'm really wondering than the CGI-emulations breaks something or no… but, based on my experience - broke nothing.. ;) [22:34]
gac410I don't think the tests would cover that, but I don't know enough about how PSGI works. The tests don't use a web server. [22:36]
jomoah so.. then probably will find nothing… so, here are no tests for FCGI or ModPerl or CGI differences? [22:37]
gac410no. The tests are a framework to drive the internal functions at various levels. Function calls, Macro expansions, etc.
The Selenium tests (not currently functional) were added to test the client side, but I've never been able to get it installed, and they are currently broken.
[22:38]
satchSeeing current conversations I think I will be on the reporting side forever... [22:40]
jomoand the tests-core are based on CPAN's Test::* suite? or they are fw invention? [22:40]
gac410unfortunately a foswiki invention. [22:40]
jomohm… CPAN modules are un-usable? [22:41]
gac410no, we use cpan internally quite heavily. But foswiki itself is not in cpan. [22:41]
jomosatch: don't worry - those guys are really open-minded (as you can read in the above lines)… and bug-reports are neded… ;) [22:42]
gac410satch: Don't let this discussion put you off. Even one-liner changes are greatly appreciated. Everyone starts somewhere. Find an annoying bug, suggest a fix. [22:42]
satchI'm just focusing on the documentation at this stage [22:43]
gac410I started out fixing an extension that was not working for me GenPDfAddOn iirc. It was a long time ago. Never expected to get sucked into being a release manager :D [22:43]
satchI visit a topic, follow step by step, fix an extra space in code that doesn't work when pasted, added some info on remote backups from mac
nothing spectacular but could be useful
[22:43]
elsatchat least for newcomers [22:44]
gac410elsatch: Trust me ... documentation is probably one of the areas that needs really serous help. Our docs are pretty abysmal in places. [22:44]
jomogac410: DON"T CALL for making more docs - please! [22:45]
gac410and it is truly annoying (and embarrassing) that you can't just fix them on the wiki :( jomo: agree. We have too much. and often conflicting. Because people create new docs rather than fix the old docs, then wander off. [22:46]
jomothe one bad thing in the FW is TOO MUCH docs. Mixed deep things (for programmers) and simple things (for users). [22:46]
elsatchI'm still surprised about the design of some of the manuals
or the contents
I'm not sure if it's the same thing as jomo is talking about
For example, I was looking information about topic and subtopics, nested webs and so on
[22:46]
gac410documentation written by developers ... we can't relate to users. And the experienced developers are even more inclined to take out the cruft that is really needed by the newbie. [22:47]
elsatchin the reference manual, there is a section about managing topics, webs, but in the latest sections [22:48]
jomoheh - probably yes - one example: the installation manual - the good manual should contain 10 bullets - and done… FW has 20 pages long manual… ;( [22:48]
elsatchmaybe because it's covered elsewhere
what's a web, what's a topic some basic definitions should appear the the begining of the doc
I know it's probably into the InstallationGuide customization steps linked
but to me it seems strange
anyway I'm getting more used to the concepts and learning lots of tricks everyday
[22:48]
gac410the foswikicamp started an effort to simplify the install doc. Stripped it way down. I noticed that all info about perl prereqs were removed. So users have **no idea** that they would need to install HTML::Tree for ex [22:50]
elsatchit was somekind of flossmanuals 5 day effort?
wow my english word ordering skills are dropping by the minute
hahaha
[22:51]
gac410http://trunk.foswiki.org/System/InstallationGuide is the new stripped down version. (but I added the perl module deps back in at the end) [22:52]
jomosometimes - less = more ;) i understand than developers writing manuals with their deep knowledge… When talking about the manuals - need cutting them into 2 piece - for users and for developers/admins. Users reallyu don't care about the "Change hostory" for example of TablePlugin - they only want to know how make nice tables (WITH MUCH examples) :) [22:53]
gac410Interesting. So you would split out the revision history? Or just hide it in a twisty? [22:54]
jomoso, probably here is needed elsatch initiative - writing USER-manuals, (and what are ready to localisation)… developers making good work already.. [22:54]
elsatchI found extensions docs quite useful, in fact the DataForms simple app example is quite interesting by itself [22:55]
jomoTake out. Everty time thing about the FW as TOOL for a blonde secretary… ;) [22:55]
elsatchI would love it [22:56]
gac410It is an occasional objection. That System web has both admin docs and user docs and operational topics. Some want to lock down System to hide the nuts and bolts But that also locks down simple stuff like editor help. [22:56]
jomowiki-app-developers, perl-developers and admins can dig into any doccu - but _normal_ users don't like too much technical texts... [22:56]
elsatchBeing a sysadmin, maibe that's the reason I'm used to dig that kind of info [22:57]
gac410Maybe should create System/Administration sub-web Extensions are tough as they have history (self-contained configuration and documenation in one topic installed that "defines" the extension. [22:58]
elsatchgac410 maybe creating UserManuals could be useful too [22:59]
jomome, personally hate plugin installation report too… i want know Plugin is installed OK) = and when not, want click into twisty to see why… now, with every plugin installation get X pages long report - and i searching the "OK" middle of garbage.. ;) [22:59]
elsatchI think right now System is like admin tool + admin doc + user manuals [22:59]
gac410Extensions install VarXXXX topics. XXXX = macro name. One per macro implemented by the extension. Pages like Macros ... are a search that %INCLUDE all VarXXXX topics. [22:59]
elsatchjust reading, I'm so happy of deb packages :) [23:00]
jomodeb has packages for Plugins? [23:01]
elsatchyeah
like 150?
apt-get install foswiki-coolplugin and done
love that
[23:01]
jomointeresant - and when you install a plugin package, got enabled it too? [23:01]
elsatchlet me check it out [23:02]
gac410I don't think it enables .. does it? [23:02]
elsatchIt gets CPAN dependencies via apt-get, and it appears in configure for you to enable [23:02]
jomojomo installing routinely approx 50 plugins… ++for debian.. ;) [23:03]
elsatchnow, I went to configure, and got an error an a warning hahaha [23:03]
jomo;)) [23:04]
elsatchyou have to manually enable plugins [23:04]
gac410The downside ... many of us don't use debs, and have no idea how to support the magic that debs do. [23:04]
elsatchI chose foswiki basically because of the debs [23:05]
gac410jomo, so you would hide the verbatim blocks output from the installer behind a twisty. [23:05]
jomoagain - doccu helps - unfortunately, my english is terrible… usable on irc, or for the bugreports, but not for doccu writing... [23:05]
elsatchfeatures + easy installation = win + win [23:05]
jomogac410: IMO, would be nice - if everything is OK - want know only OK ;)
but, it is marginal problem - can live with a long reports.. ;)
[23:06]
gac410Okay. If you could, add a "Enhancement" task, Component "Configure" - Foswiki:Tasks/Configure Gathering suggestions like this is important. Unfortunately the Configure list is too long. [23:09]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Configure [ Configure ] [23:09]
elsatchI'm getting addicted to enhance articles
hahaha
[23:10]
gac410Question... do other projects ship non-corelist CPAN modules that are requirements, or do they assume that users know how to use cpan, or ??? [23:16]
elsatchNo idea, really [23:17]
jomogac410: report done.. [23:18]
gac410Great Thanks jomo. [23:18]
elsatchjomo, btw I knew I had installed GenPDF but never tried it
it works wonders
[23:19]
gac410jomo... I was just looking at the output. The major steps are Dependencies, pre-install, install, post-install. I guess if there are any un-met dependencies, it should not be hidden? [23:20]
elsatchI have to figure out how to create a link in the toolbox to try it
but that should be another day
[23:20]
gac410link in the toolbox? [23:20]
elsatchYeah, extract this topic as a PDF
or export PDF or something like that
I've seen the options in the extensions addon
[23:21]
gac410I think there is a skin you can add SKIN = genpdf,pattern that addes a PDF button next to the print button. [23:21]
jomogac410: when here is ANY error what need my attention - should be shown. So, when i need manually install CPAN need to know = so show... [23:21]
gac410Been too long since I looked at it. [23:21]
elsatchI read about skins, but I'm still not familiar with all the nomenclature
I will investigate it further tomorrow
[23:22]
gac410Jomo okay. yeat that makes sense. What I'd probaly do for a first pass is report that each step was done. (dep, pre, inst, post) with a one-line and "show details" link [23:22]
elsatchthanks for your input and support [23:22]
gac410view your topic with skin=genpdf,pattern as a urlparam [23:23]
elsatchtried it gac410. Seems different but not pdf, dont worry
that would be my tomorrow Task
:)
[23:24]
gac410Should add on the bottom bar [23:25]
jomoad bundle CPAN modules or not - hard question - with budled modules the user get working (and tested) FW. At the other side, the user can have upgraded modules already installed from CPAN… so, i'm not sure. - probably the right solution is the Miyagava's "cpanm" - oneliners for module installs… If i know right Miyagava now working on some cpan-bundling solution... [23:25]
gac410Right now we ship some critical modules, but put the lib at the end of the search path. So if you install newer versions in the system library, they override. [23:26]
jomoif they are critical - it is probably ok having a "know working version in use"... [23:27]
gac410If you enable the developer settings then the foswiki cpan libs bump up to the top, so developers test with the modules we ship. [23:28]
jomoso, the answer is: yes, FW should bundle the needed CPAN modules - the user download one *tgz, unpack and run… ;) [23:28]
elsatchlast one.. is there any fast keybinding for setting heading levels in WYSIWYG mode? [23:29]
gac410I think we have a few we should add then. The big question was core is going to move to DateTime but it is huge, and is not in corelist. [23:29]
jomoelsatch: mean how to fast enter: ---++ :) [23:29]
elsatchhahaha [23:30]
gac410elsatch: That I don't know. I've been doiing wysiwyg fixes lately, but I usually don' t use it :( [23:30]
elsatchI'm for all welcoming the day where org-mode to foswiki is ready and I can work on emacs most of the time!
bye gac410 and thanks again
[23:31]
jomogac410: IMO, for the unexperienced admin (like me for PHP) i love, when i download a package, unpack it, point a broswer to some predefined url for configure and everything works… hate, when i need downloading some extra-php libraries or so… so, similiar is for FW - the normal user shoud get everything what is needed for run… (maybe the perl binary itself?) - experienced perl-admin - can configure FW anyway at expert level. ;) [23:33]
elsatchdon't you know that moment when you are typing similar prefixed topic names and feel there is a best way to do it using metadata... [23:35]
jomoand now, when i can i'm downloading virtualbox appliances for new systems what i want test - the most easy way... [23:35]
elsatchthat's the moment
yeah VM changed the proccess lots
[23:35]
gac410good point jomo. I think that says we shoud be more willing to ship cpan mods. The list of "optional" requirements is getting large. [23:36]
jomowith the bundled modules is one problem - XS… ;( like JSON_XS and so on… hard to "ship" bundled.. ;(
in the last week i get the idea to test "alfresco"… i know nothing about the tomcat and java containers.. etc… Painfull experience… just starting looking for VM appliance - will be enough for testing it...
[23:39]
elsatchI tried it and has some nice features
but it's not that easy to get users involved
[23:44]
jomohah - thanx - you just saved me much time… !! :) [23:45]
elsatchthe complete route is... sharepoint->alfresco->docuwiki->foswiki [23:45]
jomojomo is mac user - love simple things.. ;) [23:45]
elsatchI'm mac user too...at home
at work, you know, all these kinds of "Enterprise Quality Software"
[23:46]
jomoomg - THAT is NICE - you really SHOULD write a CaseStudy for FW.org… really. [23:46]
elsatchin the end we need some kind of semi estructured data to track a datacenter
we have project trackers, ticket trackers but they are to rigid for our sysadmin team
too rigid
in the end lots of info is lost or missing or at someone mail archive
so we are trying foswiki
[23:47]
jomoFW.org are short in CaseStudies… they're really needed - not only for "marketing" but for real study material... [23:48]
gac410It's hard to get corps to talk about their internal use. There are a bunch of older case studies on tmwiki, and some of those sites have migrated to foswiki. But have not gone public. [23:49]
elsatchI'm just wondering if we could use Rack Extension + custom app to track some assets
fortunately my other foswiki will be used to promote an open hardware project
so that could be much more easier to share
[23:49]
jomogac410: i know… i'm using FW for government and didn't get a permission talk about… ;( [23:50]
elsatchhummm government fw user, mac user, irc english...
too many coincidences
XD
are you using foswiki in your mac too?
[23:52]
jomoyup… OS X Lion/perl 5.14 - personal notebook - the main fw installation is on Freebsd… [23:53]
gac410We've got a at least one developer working with a mac. I think ArthurClemens [23:53]
elsatchsince last year I'm mac powered
well, emacs powered
into the mac
hahaha
[23:53]
jomo;0)) i started emacs only once - several years ago… ;) and must killed it from another teminal - don't know how to quit it…
jomo is an vim user…
[23:55]
elsatchC-x C-c [23:55]
jomo;) [23:55]
elsatch:q! is never far from my fingers either
I think I'll try to rsync my remote site to my laptop, mark as read only and run it on local server
but tomorrow too
jomo how much time does it take to install it aprox?
[23:55]
jomomean FW in mac? [23:57]
elsatchyeah in mac [23:58]
jomo5 min? maybe 10? (cpanm - some modules, edit one site.psgi, unpack FW, chown -R everthing, ./plackup)… done... [23:59]
gac410I'd say if you are experienced and have the prereq's met, foswiki itself is a 5-minute install. un-tar, chown (maybe), run configure, succss. [23:59]
elsatchwow [23:59]

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