#foswiki 2012-05-30,Wed

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WhoWhatWhen
***AlexisHazell has left "PING 1338337934" [00:32]
SvenDowideitoh dear. julian_work you should make them give you membership points for getting smeone to do a talk too! [00:46]
julian_workI do it every month.. hehe [00:50]
SvenDowideiter, dumb q - have you got something for june? [00:51]
julian_workyes sir, a tax time talk [00:51]
SvenDowideity, that's 12 points a year until someone silly votes you out
excellent - i might try to come so i can get comfortable with the audience
but that means someone needs to update meetup and the calendar :p
[00:51]
julian_worki'm waiting for confirmation on it before anything is added [00:55]
SvenDowideitd'oh :) [00:57]
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gac410ArthurClemens: It appears I've totally botched the WysiwygPlugin link handling.
gac410 now wishing I never touched it. I'm not getting very far with a solution
[02:19]
SvenDowideitgac410, you keep asking about branching
can you not worry about it?
we don't need to branch until after we need to branch
if you know what i mean
i'd like to make life simple for the unicode guys
[02:20]
pharveyhi gac410 [02:21]
gac410trust me at this point I'm totally distracted .. [02:21]
SvenDowideitif they commit something that breaks 1.2.0 into trunk, then we think about it [02:21]
gac410hi pharvey... I've utterly botched it. [02:21]
SvenDowideitnot before :) [02:21]
gac410thats fine SvenDowideit [02:21]
SvenDowideiti'm distracted too, enjoying writing rexify things
i'm mostly worried that the unicode guys will spend time worying or thinking about branching or whatever, rather than just doing it
[02:22]
gac410Only reason I wanted to branch was to make it easier for them to go crazy. But if it doesn't help, fine with me. [02:22]
SvenDowideitif we talk of branching, then they might wait until we decide, and then wait until we do
but as its trivial to create a branch from any point in history, thats just borrowing trouble
[02:23]
gac410that's fine.
I'll stop asking. And given the status of WysiwygPlugin, I should take up ditch digging.
[02:23]
SvenDowideitme too :) [02:24]
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pharveygac410: I'm sorry I haven't helped out with testing. I'm still running code from november. Just been totally swamped
I should have remembered the can of worms that is link handling
[02:43]
gac410Definitely a nightmare. [02:44]
pharveyI'm adding AlexanderStoffers in WaitingFor for Item11906, who must have solved this problem already for CKEditorPlugin - perhaps you can check his diffs [02:44]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11906 [ Item11906: Wysiwyg badly breaks MACRO variables ] [02:44]
gac410The issue is when macros have embedded quotes, the href=" ... "" ... " is broken.
well one issue. there are several :(
The unit tests didn't cover some cases, and one case I actually had a broken expected ... missing the </a> that was passing.
[02:46]
pharveyRight. It's difficult code, solving a complex set of problems. [02:47]
gac410The merge from trunk to 1.1.5 really should not have been done. And I should only have worked on the white space and not attempted the other bugs.
20-20 hindsight
[02:48]
pharveyyou did it because WysiwygTaskTeam has been lazy :) [02:48]
gac410And I was really naive [02:49]
pharveyprogrammers never say no [02:49]
gac410yeah. [02:49]
SvenDowideitno, no, no! [02:49]
gac410er. no! I mean No... [02:49]
SvenDowideitoh dear, there's a one-der-full test
are you a programmer:....
[02:49]
pharveyhaha. [02:50]
gac410not really. [02:50]
SvenDowideit'if you use the word 'no' in response to somthing cool, then nope' :) [02:50]
pharveygac410: in the past when I've screwed up & released it, I reverted TinyMCEPlugin but incremented the version number [02:51]
SvenDowideitSvenDowideit thus hasn't been a programmer, ever [02:51]
gac410TMCE is not the issue. This is squarely in Wysiwyg. [02:51]
pharveyI know, I just mean, it's a strategy you could employ if you want some breathing room to sort this out in a calm manner [02:52]
gac410I can't really revert, the 1.1.5 whitespace issues are huge. I could maybe back out pieces of the fixes related to link handling. [02:52]
pharveyhave you spoken to CDot on these problems? [02:53]
gac410I'm afraid that they are inter-related. Not sure yet if going backwards or forwards will be better. But simple revert is not in the issue. [02:53]
pharveyI understand
inter-related-fix-mess
[02:53]
gac410no. ArthurClemens just discovered it a little while ago. Wrong time for CDot. [02:54]
SvenDowideitwe wish you a merry fix-mess, we wish you a merry fix-mess, we wish you a merry fix-mess and a happy bug hunt [02:54]
pharveyOk. I should become more available in July. Until then, my commit average has dropped off the cliff. And now, I have another meeting to prepare for... gotta run [02:55]
gac410thanks SvenDowideit thanks pharvey . [02:55]
SvenDowideitgac410, /me has done nothing useful - whereas you're actually acheiving, even if it doesn't feel that way [02:56]
gac410achieving breakage anyway... [02:56]
SvenDowideitif you've added one unit test.... :p [02:56]
gac410I'll be mostly offline the next 2 days. :( [02:56]
SvenDowideitsounds familiar - we all have lives [02:57]
gac410I still don't get why the HTML2TML process decodes %xx entities in URLs. It was breaking mailto links. So I excluded them. But it also matches macros like %BASEWEB% (decoding the %BA) :(
I contrived a test case for entites in a Web/Topic that needed decoding, but don't understand why it's needed. It goes back to a fix CDot did back on (tm)wiki
[03:00]
SvenDowideitsadly, i understand none of it [03:06]
..... (idle for 22mn)
pharveygac410: These re-de-encoding patterns might just be to work around old glitches that aren't necessary any more.
gac410: the main thing I remember about URI encoding is that the code which automatically detects http://path/to/attachurl and replaces it with %ATTACHURL and friends
[03:28]
gac410yeah I'm pretty sure that still works. And for the other entity decoding, I commented it out. :P [03:29]
pharveythere are several interesting failure modes, because IIRC the hash which holds the pref values is octets, whereas the URI might be an octet string with %percent-escaped, or an actual unicode string, I forget. [03:31]
gac410Actually I just might be making some progress ( I state that to ensure that I am missing some other glaring issue. All ROUNDTRIP tests pass. [03:31]
pharveyw00t [03:31]
gac410the TMl2HTML failures are I hope just small encoding differences. [03:33]
pharveypharvey wonders why Extensions.PackageViewTemplate isn't working
this all reminded me that we should really have a %SEARCH showing Ugent open tasks (possibly excluding status 'New')
but then that would require an intelligent way to link to the previous release
so many worms, so few predators
[03:34]
gac410gac410 wants to only open one can at a time. [03:36]
pharveyI also wanted to tell jast that our experience with mongodb + 240,951 topics in Foswiki shows that splitting hairs over indexes vs no indexes is a very small detail compared to ensuring that Foswiki can effectively delegate the entire search function to the DB at all. That means no one-by-one post-processing of topics (eg. checking ACLs in perl)
I can delete all of our indexes and mongo will still answer almost any query in under a second
[03:39]
gac410cool [03:41]
pharveyof course with indexes it's a few ms but I mean, the main bottlenecks in Foswiki aren't necessarily indexes IMHO
well, I tell a lie. an Op_Ref query like IdentifiedBy/Affiliation/Country='Germany' can take 10s of seconds, but mongo isn't supposed to be good at that type of query
[03:41]
gac410woo! Unit tests all passed.
If a href= contains embedded quotes, then I protect the whole tag instead of trying to allow it to link.
And if a [[ ]] TML link contains %BLAH% macros, then that is protected instead of treated as a link.
[03:43]
pharveySvenDowideit: we'll be cracking 300k topics this week :P
gac410: good compromise
[03:45]
SvenDowideitpharvey, excellent
you're only licensed for 298k
so i'll need that upgrade fee :p
[03:47]
pharveylolol [03:47]
SvenDowideitwrt indexes vs full delegation, y, its annoying that to get benefit from a more complex store, you have to implement most of the query engine [03:48]
pharveywhat all this migration work tells me is that next mission is Foswiki::Form2 [03:48]
FoswikiBothttp://trunk.foswiki.org/System/PerlDoc?module=Foswiki::Form2 [03:48]
SvenDowideitand to get more, you have to implement the formatter
or at least replace the * in 'SELECT * FROM ...' with only what you actually need
[03:49]
pharveyor link handling
SvenDowideit, indeed
[03:49]
SvenDowideitin the unlikely event that you have time to read
i hear that the wikipedia wikidata project have been working on datalinking stuff
[03:50]
pharveyyeah, I meed a tweet, and looked at their things
interesting that they're not leveraging SMW
[03:50]
SvenDowideitisn't the past tense of tweet a twart? [03:51]
pharveytwarted, sorry
I twarted
[03:51]
SvenDowideitor a twort [03:51]
pharveyhaha
interesting that MW are using Lua as their 'template' language
[03:51]
SvenDowideity
when i read tim's reasons why, i think they don't apply to much more than a php thing
[03:52]
gac410Now to tidy it all, checkin on trunk, and let ArthurClemens try to break it. [03:53]
SvenDowideiteven more, an in-server process sripting tool that uses php
:)
[03:53]
pharveySvenDowideit: I found it hard to get excited about joining in. I hate to be a language snob, but hear there's a special exception - everybody is allowed to hate PHP irrationally or otherwise :) [03:55]
julian_workisn't PHP a hate word? [03:56]
SvenDowideiti'd rather code in php than java (i think) [03:56]
julian_workpeople don't need PHP anymore since cataylst is about. :) [03:56]
SvenDowideiti found catalyst to be too rail-ish [03:57]
julian_workI love it tbh. [03:57]
SvenDowideiti hope that next time i start a greenfield web project i use a c based framework from ccan :p [03:57]
julian_workfor me, it leaves the webdesign in the background and allows you to just code. [03:57]
SvenDowideitthough i did enjoy using node.js and express, so meh [03:57]
julian_workI'm a wanna-be coder.. So my opinions can be ignored. [03:58]
SvenDowideiti didn't find that catalyst helped re-architecting in the longer run
same as rails
for me, code gen needs to be DSL based and symetrical
if its not, you can't re-work the overarching arch when you need to pivot
[03:58]
julian_workahh ok
I just wrote a cat app to do ldap registrations and modifications
for a SSO service I am trying to build
[03:59]
SvenDowideitSvenDowideit thought that you could just use them off the shelf
JAS SSO or something?
though its java iirc
[04:00]
gac410ArthurClemens: Just checked in fix to Item11906 for trunk. Please beat up on Wysiwyg link handling to see if there is any more breakage. [04:02]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11906 [ Item11906: Wysiwyg badly breaks MACRO variables ] [04:02]
julian_workCAS [04:02]
gac410gac410 carefully crocheting the worms into fine lace [04:03]
SvenDowideitjulian_work, y, that [04:03]
julian_workI've herd it is a good comapred to pubcookie.
SSO is for OpenNIC. A DN project thing I help with.
DNS i mean sorry.
[04:03]
FoswikiBoti mean sorry. is . [04:04]
SvenDowideitFoswikiBot, you are weird [04:04]
FoswikiBotSvenDowideit: Okay. [04:04]
SvenDowideitFoswikiBot, you? [04:04]
FoswikiBotSvenDowideit: you are weird [04:04]
julian_workhehe
go the infobot.
[04:04]
Babarstop playing with my bot :p
what the hell are you still doing up gac410?!
[04:07]
SvenDowideitBabar, humpf :p [04:08]
Babarit's 6am!!! [04:08]
gac410Hopefully i've actually managed to fix my mess. Time for sleep. g'night all. If nobody finds any issues and ArthurClemens confirms fix is good, I'll try to release a new WysiwygPlugin tomorrow night (20 or so hours from now) [04:08]
Babarah no :) [04:08]
SvenDowideitnite :) [04:08]
Babarit's just midnight :) [04:08]
gac410Babar, not that late. Just past midnight. [04:08]
Babarright
I feel like 6am, even though it's just midnight
must be the bourbon
[04:08]
gac410bye [04:09]
SvenDowideitna, its just some rogue elements [04:09]
***gac410 has left [04:09]
Babarok, good night too then :) [04:10]
SvenDowideitnite :p [04:10]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/nbdogQ
[foswiki/master] Item11906: Avoid corrupting links - GeorgeClark
[04:18]
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foswiki_irc8hi
this in regards with the statistics page, i.e. I had refreshed the statistics, the statistics of month got reset to the statistics of the day
Is there any major issue
If so, then how to get it rectified
No replies yet
?????/
[04:53]
julian_workyou've only waited 2 mins bud [04:55]
foswiki_irc8k.. waiting for reply [04:56]
julian_workI can't help sorry. :) [04:56]
foswiki_irc8anyone else.... [04:56]
julian_workbe patient my friend. :) [04:56]
.... (idle for 16mn)
SvenDowideitfoswiki_irc8, http://foswiki.org/Tasks/WebStatistics
sort of suggests that there are no major issues
so its more likely to be something to do with your local foswiki
are you doing it from cron, or by clicking the link
if clicking the link, are you in the admin group
are there any details in the various log files
um, yup, out of quick diag ideas
[05:12]
pharveyis it an old foswiki? there were some bugs fixed recently [05:19]
foswiki_irc8@SvenDowideit: Where do we see the log files [05:25]
SvenDowideitdepends on your setup
i start looking in my apache error logs
then look in the foswiki logs dir - foswiki/logs or foswiki/working/logs or - well, depends on the local cfg
[05:25]
foswiki_irc8working/logs does not exist
neither /logs
[05:28]
SvenDowideitthen look in your config file - i'm working from memory :/ [05:29]
foswiki_irc8i have no idea oon how to view the config file [05:31]
SvenDowideitok, er, i _am_ talking about server logs which you need shell / server access to see
(just to make sure you're not trying with the browser)
[05:31]
foswiki_irc8actually I am not the admin of the teamwiki
it is our project portal
[05:33]
SvenDowideitthe you won't be able to look at the server logs [05:33]
foswiki_irc8ya
is there anyway to retrieve the earlier stats
[05:33]
SvenDowideitdepends on why they got lots in the first place [05:34]
foswiki_irc8means?? [05:34]
SvenDowideitmaybe, maybe not, neither of us has enough information to answer the question [05:35]
foswiki_irc8k.. thanks
for assistance
[05:35]
SvenDowideitgood luck :) your admin should be able to work it out tho :) [05:36]
foswiki_irc8k.. [05:36]
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***ChanServ sets mode: +o MichaelDaum [06:38]
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pharveyyou know your old code sucked pretty hard when you get the runtime down from ~5 hrs to 36 seconds [08:17]
CDotpharvey: depends; were you running it on the same machine? [08:23]
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jastMichaelDaum: any idea what else could trigger "unknown field 'collection'" errors in a Solr index run? I've already applied the patch from Item11816... [09:07]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11816 [ Item11816: SolrIndex fails with Broken Pipe Error ] [09:07]
MichaelDaumjast, MetaCommentPlugin is the only plugin I know that interacts with SolrPlugin that way
what other plugins do you have?
any tagging related things?
[09:09]
pharveyHi CDot, same machine; just a throw-away script I created to do a job one day, not realising we would keep using it. The re-write does some simple stuff to fit into ram and only process the things it has to. [09:14]
CDot"just a throw-away script" - sometimes these have the longest lives of all. [09:15]
pharveyindeed. There's a 200 line perl script out there I wrote in 2007 which pretends to be a web telemetry service, that I coded up on-site under pressure. Still in use. That code must have the highest profit-to-LOC ratio of anything I've written :) [09:18]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to Release01x01: http://git.io/0Ug9xA
[foswiki/Release01x01] Item11904: better method name, added documentation - ArthurClemens
[09:20]
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11904 [ Item11904: Split out logout code from LoginManager ] [09:20]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/9U9j2A
[foswiki/master] Item11904: better method name, added documentation - ArthurClemens
[09:20]
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jastMichaelDaum: thanks for your help. problem solved... there was a mismatch between schema version and plugin version. huge tangled mess and everything. now all I've left to deal with is one particular document that gives a (IIRC) "unknown field 'container_id'" error. [10:12]
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SvenDowideitjomo, CDot and others...
I could imagine that https://metacpan.org/module/Config::Model
would make re-doing our config files interesting
given that it has a curses, ssh, tk edit ui
(i've not looked for more than a minute, but an abstracted cfg system with UI's would mean html were possible too
[11:04]
mmm, maybe its too simple to add our checkers stuff too, someone will have to poke it [11:17]
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***SvenDowideit sets mode: +oooo AlexisHazell CDot Colas ColasHome
SvenDowideit sets mode: +o pharvey
[11:34]
CDotSvenDowideit: does it have HTML?
it might be interesting to bolt it under =configure=, as it has a similar low-level API. Alternatively it might be interesting to bolt it under $Foswiki::cfg. Sounds like a lot of work just for a command-line edit tool, tho.
[11:36]
SvenDowideity
i was thinking more as a re-write
given that configure has outgrown its 'design'
but its even lower on my list than unicode
unless i happen across needing a complicated conf thing for the rex:box thing i'm doing
[11:40]
CDotI would be delighted to replace the lower levels of =configure= with an easier-to-use configuration engine (read: hierarchical hash) because the hoops we're forced to jump through to get the .spec and .cfg files are painful. But I still think the value of the other bits of configure - the checkers - is too great to lose.
of course if someone wants to come up with a top-to-bottom designed solution, including checkers and an interactive configuration UI, I'd be delighted.
CDot is acutely conscious that =configure= came about through evolution, not intelligent design.
[11:49]
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jomohi, what is the best way getting data from tables? E.g. have zilion topics with tables and need search for some values in the tables - is here someting like %GETTABLEDATA{topic="…:" search="search for" return="this relative cell"} or something similiar... [12:20]
ArthurClemensjomo: for that you can use RenderTableDataPlugin [12:22]
jomojomo checking
hm.. exactly about me worrying "Only tables created by Foswiki syntax are supported" - because i managed a %SEARCH{type="regex"…} and for tests its working OK…. Until, my users get creative idea setting "alignment" in the WYSIWYG and the table is transformed into <table>… :( :(
wysiwyg + users = kill wiki apps… ;(
[12:23]
ArthurClemensI think we should protect a TML table [12:30]
jomoso, as i see, here isn't any plugin for uniform data-adressing from FW tables (so TML or HTML) [12:32]
AlexanderStjomo: hahaha, you are facing the same problems as we are...
maybe our customer target group is the same
[12:32]
jomoAlexanderSt: :) or better :( ;( [12:33]
AlexanderStwe have a lot of users with "computer dyslexia" :-) [12:34]
ArthurClemensnoone has offered a fix [12:34]
jomoand usung EDITTABLE does not helps, because the user simply press edit for topic, re-edit the table into unusabe form, and edittable stops working (ofc)... [12:35]
AlexanderStjomo...if you have the need of utf-8 wikis, do you also face problems with content multilanguage ability? [12:35]
jomoHAPPYLY not now - for me enough slovak yet (but with some international characters, because sometimes need write gree symbols or russian names... [12:36]
AlexanderSt...lucky.
jomo: we try to stricktly differ content tables (where users can work with the ckeditor) and wiki app tables (where users can work with EDITTABLE e.g.)
[12:37]
jomoi tried this too - but as told above - he simply ignoring the edit button under the table, going edit the whole topic (and i understand his, because the topic contain other texts too) - and re-edit the table with alignments ;(
therefore, the solution is not restricting users - but write a plugin for universal table adressing (TML+HTML)...
[12:40]
AlexanderSti do not allow to edit the content itself in several wikiapps. so the edittable macro is provided within an edittemplate. [12:42]
jomo(and when the tables will get names, will be easy get data from the 3th table from a topic)
yes - that can be a solution - for now… but, foreseeing my users reactions, "blablabla why I must edit the table separately and not inside a topic, where i have a nice table button…bla bla bla" ;(
[12:42]
CDotjomo: I recently wrote a generic tables parser that among other things provides a REST api for retrieving things from tables (and writing them back). I didn't package it as a contrib or plugin because of the lack of interest; but it sounds like what you are looking for.
see the trunk branch; lib/Foswiki/Tables
[12:50]
jomoCDot: lack of interest? omg, that would be the one of best plugins in FW.. ;) :) [12:51]
ArthurClemenslack of interest = lack of time [12:51]
jomojomo going to check [12:51]
CDotactually the REST API is still in the EditRowPlugin; but to repackage the parser as a plugin/contrib makes sense on several different levels. [12:52]
AlexanderStDoes anyone have experience with the SOLRFORMAT macro beside Michael? [12:54]
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GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to Release01x01: http://git.io/Z-m37w
[foswiki/Release01x01] Item11911: Expert settings no longer color marked - ArthurClemens
[15:06]
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11911 [ Item11911: Expert settings no longer color marked ] [15:06]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/KbfASQ
[foswiki/master] Item11911: Expert settings no longer color marked - ArthurClemens
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GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to Release01x01: http://git.io/XGCSTQ
[foswiki/Release01x01] Item11910: Several issues with {Trace}{LoginManager} - ArthurClemens
[17:35]
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11910 [ Item11910: Several issues with {Trace}{LoginManager} ] [17:35]
GithubBot[foswiki] foswiki pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/n7l1Gw
[foswiki/master] Item11910: Several issues with {Trace}{LoginManager} - ArthurClemens
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ChanServ sets mode: +o OliverKrueger
OliverKrueger sets mode: +oooo AndreU Colas ColasHome terceiro
[20:36]

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