#foswiki 2012-08-20,Mon

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WhoWhatWhen
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MichaelDaumseen Lynnwood [06:58]
FoswikiBotLynnwood was last seen in #foswiki 11 hours 34 mins ago saying ":-)". [06:58]
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GithubBot[foswiki] FoswikiBot pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/VlmYfQ
[foswiki/master] Item12047: initial checkin - MichaelDaum
[07:15]
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item12047 [ Item12047: initial checkin ] [07:15]
CDotMichaelDaum: looks interesting. Driven off tables? [07:17]
Babargreat! A new plugin... so I can review why the hell my Net::GitHub code doesn't seem to create new repositories, when I can perfectly do that by hand [07:17]
CDotCDot is interested in developing a unified data REST API, that gives a common REST interface to data in tables and forms [07:18]
MichaelDaumCDot, have a look at JsonRpcContrib
jqgantt still has issues with jquery-1.8.0 that I am testing extensions against before checking it in
and of course, jqgantt is bar far on par with what others call a gantt
^NOT on par!!!
[07:20]
CDotI looked at JsonRpcContrib a while ago, but at the time it seemed to fall far short of what I had in mind. I will have another look.
y, it's important but only a small piece of the picture.
[07:25]
MichaelDaumbtw news from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foswiki [07:38]
Babaroh, so they went through with the request for merge
that's going to be funny :)
[07:39]
GithubBot[foswiki] FoswikiBot pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/OOQcEA
[foswiki/master] Item12047: fixes for jquery-1.8.0 - MichaelDaum
[foswiki/master] Item12047: removed debug leftover - MichaelDaum
[07:45]
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Babaroh, Matthias Wientapper hasn't updated the OS-X installers since 1.0.3 :( [07:48]
PeterSvendsenHi, do anybody know if Learning Management System e.g. Moodle and Foswiki can work together.. ? [07:52]
GithubBot[foswiki] FoswikiBot pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/3_whmw
[foswiki/master] Item12047: local patches - MichaelDaum
[foswiki/master] Item12048: - MichaelDaum
[08:00]
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item12047 [ Item12047: initial checkin ]
http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item12048 [ Item12048: upgrade to jquery-1.8.0 and jquery-ui 1.8.23 ]
[08:00]
CDotPeterSvendsen: that's an open question that can only be answered with "probably". Anything can be made to work with anything else, if you put a bit of effort in! [08:08]
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PeterSvendsenCDot: Ok... I can take a look :) [08:30]
AlexanderStMichaelDaum: Hi Michael, i have a short question regarding solr: What happes with formfield entries like "Im Plan" with a blank inside? Can i query the formfiled with %SOLRSEARCH{"field_Status_s:im Plan" ...}% [08:36]
MichaelDaumyou have to quote properly [08:36]
AlexanderStso do you mean "field_Status_s:'im Plan'" ? [08:37]
MichaelDaumfield_Status:'Im Plan'
see the references about the lucene query language out there
[08:37]
AlexanderStokay, i will give it a try. thanks! [08:39]
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MichaelDaum: it works with "field_Status_s:"im Plan"" ... thanks [08:54]
PeterSvendsenHi all, I have installed the latest version of foswiki on a server and then taken my old foswiki directory and overwritten it all (to secure that I get the content) and now I would like to run an update to the latest version of the wiki..... but how do I do that?
Are there no way that I can copy all content + setup from the old server to the new?
[08:58]
Babaryou copy the old content, and you extract over it the upgrade tar ball [09:02]
PeterSvendsen@Barbar: so... Install Foswiki --> Copy old content (whold foswiki directory) to new installation?
@Barbar: tar ball?
[09:08]
Babar@PieterSandvik: yes, you can do that... or simply, copy old content, extract upgrade package. [09:10]
PeterSvendsen@Barbar: But if I extract the upgrade to the directory that contain the installation... I quess I'll change the configuration files? aznd setup? [09:11]
Babar@PieterSandvik: The all point of the upgrade is not to over-write anything that could have been changed. Of course, if you upgraded system topics not in the recommended way, then it might over-write some things. [09:17]
PeterSvendsenI didnt overwrite.... only the preferences evt :) [09:20]
Babarpreferences should be set in Main.SystemPreferences, which is NOT in the upgrade package [09:20]
PeterSvendsenokay.. I try agian then... last time I didnt succed [09:21]
Babarif it is, shoot gar410 on sight :) [09:21]
PeterSvendsenNormally when Ienter the wiki I enter ".../foswiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome" if I do that in the new installation I just get the error "Not Found The requested URL /foswiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome was not found on this server."
and if I enter .../foswiki/ I get to the installation page :/
[09:27]
Babardid you configure apache? [09:28]
PeterSvendsenyes...if I only enter ... then it say "It works" [09:29]
Babarbut did you configure the ScriptUrlPath, etc... ?
and are foswiki/bin/* executable?
[09:31]
PeterSvendsenApache... ScriptUrlPath, etc... ? no... thanks... I'll take a look at the apache setup on the old server and copy the setup...
foswiki/bin/* executable?.... good question... must admit I dont know how to check :(
[09:33]
Babarthey should be incuded in the upgrade
which one did you take? tar.gz or zip?
[09:33]
PeterSvendsenI took the zip [09:35]
BabarI don't think zip has file permissions... not sure
which OS are you running?
[09:36]
PeterSvendsenWin 2008 server...... [09:36]
Babaroh. [09:36]
PeterSvendsenso you propose me to try to redo it all and try with tar.gz? [09:36]
Babarthen permissions are irrelevant
no no, it has to be something else
check the apache config then
it should have something like: ScriptAlias /foswiki/bin "C:\...\bin"
[09:37]
PeterSvendsenScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ "C:/Program Files (x86)/Apache Software Foundation/Apache2.2/cgi-bin/" [09:38]
Babarno, not that :) [09:39]
PeterSvendsenIf it should point at the site directory then I need to change it [09:39]
Babaron your old installation, you should have something in your apache config
the one you generated for foswiki
[09:41]
PeterSvendsenyes I'll try to compare these 2... [09:41]
Babarand ensure it's loaded :) Easiest way to do that is to put a bogus line like "blah" in the file, and try to restart apache. [09:42]
PeterSvendsenok.. I just restart it... :)
thanks a lot Barbar.... :)
[09:43]
Babarafter all the hints I gave by mispelling your nickname.. didn't you get it that mine isn't Barbar? [09:44]
PeterSvendsenUps sorry.... ;) to stressed to notice this....
Barbar is easier for me to pronounce maybe therefore I didnt pay attention :/
[09:46]
Babarthe Swedes I know never seemed to had an issue pronouncing BaBar when they were talking about the experiment :) [09:49]
PeterSvendsenDanes ;) Actually I'm pretty sure I then have made the error before.. I secure I remember to the next time :) [09:51]
Babaryes, I'm sure you've made it before. Danes? Lavr never seemed to have an issue :) [09:52]
PeterSvendsenYes from DK :) No but I think Kenneth have been in the game for many years... he's also smarter then me [09:53]
CDotIt's just wishful thinking http://www.brasserielefebvre.be/en/product/1/barbar#/product/resized/1_barbarbld-bouteille-et-verre-pt.jpg
"golden in colour with a generous head"
[09:54]
PeterSvendsenNow we're talking [09:55]
CDot"smooth and refined, spicy like liquorice root and slightly sweet" [09:55]
Babar15L ? That looks nice :) [09:56]
CDotStrong; 8% [09:57]
Babarthat's mild :) [09:57]
***Babar sets mode: +ooo CDot Colas ColasHome [09:57]
CDotfor belgian beer, I guess so
damn; Lefbvre don't have a UK distributor :-(
[09:58]
Babartime for CDot Enterprises to become one! [10:00]
CDotaha; found a pub near me that serves it :-) [10:00]
Babarnice! [10:00]
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GithubBot[foswiki] FoswikiBot pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/7iSTpg
[foswiki/master] Item10770: some internal code re-org, plus fix for macros in the choices for a select box. Not releasable yet because it uses the Tables code from the core, which isn't in 1.1.5 - CrawfordCurrie
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item10770 [ Item10770: EditRowPlugin - Cannot update via double click cells with macros ] [10:15]
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GithubBot[foswiki] FoswikiBot pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Ityscg
[foswiki/master] Item11828: corrections - CrawfordCurrie
[11:15]
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11828 [ Item11828: Abstract and core-ify EditRowPlugin's table parser and object model ] [11:15]
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PeterSvendsenis it recommented to have PHP installed to get the best experience in a foswiki system? [11:41]
Babarwhat would you need PHP for? [11:43]
PeterSvendsenno idea.. just looking at the apache conf file and can php was installed on the old server [11:44]
Nicekiwihey... i installed foswiki from the debian repos in ubuntu, how can I totally remove it or retinstall it automatticly?
Or, i need to change the URL it runs on from localhost/foswiki/ to just locahost
[11:46]
Babarthere is 4 lines to uncomment to enable ShorterUrls in the Debian version, iirc
#see /etc/foswiki/ShorterUrl.conf to activate ShorterUrls
as written in the config
so it's even as simple as including / symlinking this file
[11:48]
AlexanderStHi there, is anyone of you combining another task-management tool like the ActionTrackerPlugin with Foswiki? I just ask myself, if the ActionTracker is still working well (still performing) with a lot of actions in different topics and different webs, let´s say for 500 employees.
...i do not feel very confident, building a wiki app with a lots of protocol topics and a personal topic where i get listed all my wiki-wide actions via %ACTIONSEARCH%
[11:50]
PeterSvendsenWhen I try to access the main page through "/foswiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome" ... I get this error in the log file "The system cannot find the file specified. : couldn't create child process: 720002: view" [12:04]
AlexanderStCDot: Do you maybe have a hint for me? would you recommend to use the ActionTrackerPlugin to create wiki-wide tasks and present them in a personal topic? What do you think about the performance if a 500 employee company use the ActionTracker for all their projects? [12:06]
BabarPeterSvendsen: did you run tools/rewriteshebang.pl after unzipping the upgrade? [12:07]
CDotAlexanderSt: it totally depends on the volume of actions. I have worked with up to 100 users, but nothing bigger than that.
searching for actions has the same performance constraints as searching for anyhting else; and 500 people could generate a lot of topics
I'm not saying it *won't* scale, I'm just saying that I have never pushed it that far.
[12:07]
AlexanderSt...hmm...i would not like to be the first one where it isn´t working anymore :-)
do you have ideas to embetter the performance or scalability of the ActionTracker? What do you think about a solr connector for instance?
[12:09]
Babaror a MongoDB? :) [12:11]
NicekiwiBabar: wow, awsome! :D thanks! [12:11]
CDotof course, I have lots of ideas. The implementation there already uses the standard search APIs so should link to solr/mongo already
though again, I have never tested it
other ideas include caching actions out of band
[12:11]
jastexcept solr doesn't plug into the standard search API :) [12:12]
CDotbad Solr [12:12]
AlexanderSt:-) [12:12]
BabarNicekiwi: np. SvenDowideit did the work, so he deserves the credit :) [12:12]
CDotmongo implements the API, so that should work [12:13]
PeterSvendsen@Babar: No I trry to do that... was not aware I should do that..... [12:13]
CDotbut this is all assuming that searching is a problem on a large DB. It might not be - I just don't know. [12:14]
AlexanderStok, but if i understand it, the whole wiki has to be stored in the MongoDB, right? [12:14]
BabarPeterSvendsen: Nice of you to use my nick :) And that's true, it's not often written in the documentation, because it works for most of the installation. But it will never work on windows... [12:14]
CDotI think they implemented it as a shadow cache. But I'm not sure. [12:14]
AlexanderSti think, there should maybe a task-db what is independent from the wiki... [12:16]
CDotmaybe. depends on what you are trying to do [12:16]
PeterSvendsen@Babar: Yes please pay attention that I remembered it correctly this time :) [12:16]
CDotfor e.g. I would implement an RM system in the wiki in an eyeblink, but I wouldn't use it as a bug tracker (personally I think there are cast iron commercial solutions out there that are better than anything you can do in a wiki)
even some OS trackers are pretty good, and there are even some wikis that specialise in the field (Trac)
but for free-form actions, there's nothing to beat FW + ATP, IMHO.
[12:17]
PeterSvendsen@Babar: Thanks now I can access the site.... I guess now I need to install all the plugins [12:18]
AlexanderStjust now i have basically 2-3 concerns regarding the ActionTracker: 1. Scalability of the actionsearch macro. 2. Topic lease conflicts. 3. Assigned_to could have conflicts with the underlaying topic view rights. [12:18]
CDotall solid concerns.
it would be very irritating to be assigned an action and be unable to close it
lease conflicts could be a problem, but IME rarely is
scalability of searching - well, that's a known problem, and the usual solutions (better DB, caches) are all available should it become an issue.
[12:18]
AlexanderStWe have that usecase. There are protocol topics of the board of governors, and sometimes (allways) they raise tasks to people who are not in the board of governors. They do not have the right to see the protocol of the board...and so they cannot see their own task... [12:22]
CDotA while ago I seriously considered re-implementing ATP to take actions completely out of band and store them in an external DB
I know how to do it. Just not motivated :-(
heh; perhaps you need to train the board of governors to be more open in their dealings with other people!
[12:22]
AlexanderStyeah...that is what we did ;-)
...but what happes...they will have another inoffical protocol where they will store the top secret details
[12:23]
CDottypical [12:25]
AlexanderStso maybe we only have to jump into the cold water and we will see what will happen if 500 people work with the atp [12:25]
CDotI think if it comes to it I can advise scalability solutions should you get stuck [12:26]
AlexanderStok, perfect...we will come up to you, if the system is running out of memory :) [12:27]
CDotok; good luck! [12:27]
MichaelDaumthere are usability problems in atp
it was okay when wiki apps was new. but not today anymore.
[12:29]
AlexanderSti have another question regarding utf-8. Michael told me that you created a utf-8 fork. How much work is to do there anymore? Can we still help with getting fw utf8 capable?
MichaelDaum: What kind of usability problems are you thinking about?
[12:30]
MichaelDaumhaving to type %ACTION{...}%
and it doesn't really look sexy
people want rest clickipoint
[12:32]
AlexanderStactually atp is very sexy in comparism with sap r/3 transaction masks for example :) [12:34]
MichaelDaumhow hard is that? ;) [12:35]
AlexanderSt...thats the standard of our customers...but you are right. atp is not very sexy if you compare it with an up-to-date application. [12:35]
MichaelDaumsap isn't really in the same market segment as foswiki.
to compare against
competitors to watch out is confluence, sharepoint and jive
[12:36]
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CDotAlexanderSt: we created such a branch (utf8) but gave up due to lack of interest from anyone else. I suspect it would be too far behind the curve now to be useful.
However the lessons learned are valuable; the main one bing "it's easy to convert the core to UTF8, but extensions are a minefield"
Babar was leading the work on the utf8 support, but was lost in the jungle while out hunting for bosons.
[12:55]
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Babartrue :(
but we found bosons!
[13:43]
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MichaelDaumTest::Class is actually pretty nice [14:06]
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MichaelDaumhm chanserv und nickserv are gone? [18:46]
Babaryes
341201244 [FreeNode] -groupcat(~mrmist@freenode/staff/amazing.groupcat)- [Global Notice] Sorry folk, services have run off again. We expect to catch them again shortly, after a brief period of network breakage.
and just before that, Christel sent: 341201117 [FreeNode] -christel(christel@freenode/staff/exherbo.christel)- [Global Notice] Hi all, autumn tends to bring out the most aggressive of bugs... not only are we desperately trying to swat away the wasps and horseflies, we also appear to have found a rather unfortunate services bug which cores services. Apologies for the inconvenience, we're working on it!
[18:58]
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MichaelDaumah ok. [19:14]
Babarand it's back :) [19:15]
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