#foswiki 2012-09-20,Thu

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pharveySvenDowideit: my .plan for 1.2.0 is sent. If I get through the first 4 things that I listed, I'll be ok... I think. [00:30]
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SvenDowideitpharvey, sweet
btw, if you read last night logs
jast, has gotten buyin for working on i18n
so we might get somewhere
personally, I'd like to see some difficult char topic examples in the TestCases web
and then some TestCases that use them - so that when I run the tests I know i've not instantly stuffed it up
[02:14]
pharveyok [02:16]
SvenDowideiti also asked micha and jast to make a feature req that specifically calls to make utf8 the default setting [02:16]
pharveyI pushed a newly merged unicode branch [02:16]
SvenDowideitwith pros and cons [02:16]
pharveyRender.pm had diverged a lot so I had to manually re-apply cdot's commits to that file [02:16]
SvenDowideitso that we have a chance of actually considering it
rather than just missing it constantly
SvenDowideit runs again :)
[02:16]
pharveyohhhh damnit. Scalar::Util::tainted($Assert::DIRTY) fails with unicode branch? Hah. [02:23]
Source file /tmp/sVSNi1LOLj/Foswiki/AUTHORS does not exist at /usr/local/src/github.com/cdot/foswiki2/core/../BuildContrib/lib/Foswiki/Contrib/Build.pm line 848.... wha? [02:30]
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hi jast! I updated Foswiki unicode branch, just for you :P [03:06]
gac410Answered my own question from earlier. Setting shebang to #!perl is worthless. The shell does not search the path, so it MUST be an absolute path. The workaround is to use #!/usr/bin/env perl ... but you then cannot pass the -wT [03:20]
SvenDowideitalso
there were a huge number of bugs with env
lots just recently raised in debian - i've not read up on what, but its just as ew
I would definitily appreciate a perbrew friendly setup :/
i've not looked into perlbrew yet, but its clearly on the list
gac410 what is your timetable wrt 1.1.6?
I'm going to quietly look at building a test release every month, somewhat like perl does
[03:21]
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GithubBot[foswiki] FoswikiBot pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/erGlSg
[foswiki/master] Item12080: Change length() to scalar() - GeorgeClark
[03:47]
***GithubBot has left [03:47]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item12080 [ Item12080: Perl 5.16 deprecates length ( @array ) - need to use scalar ] [03:47]
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gac410oops. Sorry SvenDowideit speaker muted
I don't think I can close some of the current blockers, so once the blockers are either deferred to 1.2, or fixed, I'll go for it.
1.1.5 was released in April, so 6 months for 1.1.6 would put it mid-october. That make be a bit tight with the current blockers, but maybe string freeze 10/1, and shoot for release by end Oct / mid-Nov?
[04:16]
dj_segfaultI think my Foswiki installation at http://wiki.agilenewengland.org may have been hacked! The CSS is not working (the layout is all messed up), and when I go to /bin/configure, I get an internal server error. [04:23]
gac410file permissions issues? I get a 403 forbidden trying to read the CSS files.
Is it your server, or a hosted site?
[04:25]
dj_segfaultHosted site but I have ssh access [04:27]
gac410Can you look at the apache error logs? to find what the internal error is? [04:28]
dj_segfault[Wed Sep 19 23:21:07 2012] [error] [client 75.149.142.18] File does not exist: /home/neagile/foswiki/public_html/403.shtml, referer: http://wiki.agilenewengland.org/bin/view/System/WebHome
[Wed Sep 19 23:21:07 2012] [error] [client 75.149.142.18] Options FollowSymLinks or SymLinksIfOwnerMatch is off which implies that RewriteRule directive is forbidden: /home/neagile/foswiki/public_html/pub/System/FootNotePlugin/styles.css, referer: http://wiki.agilenewengland.org/bin/view/System/WebHome
[04:31]
gac410Did the hosting site change the apache config? FollowSymLinks is usually needed. Or maybe they moved directories to a symlink while reorganizing diskspace? [04:32]
dj_segfaultThat's what I'm guessing.
I better ping support.
You don't think it's the RewriteRule message?
Thanks.
[04:32]
gac410hm. You could try adding the FollowSymLinks.
I think ApacheConfigGenerator generally enables that option.
Or it may ask if you need symlinks. Again I almost always enable it.
[04:33]
***gac410 has left [04:37]
pharveyI'd say it looks like something about the environment changed which broke your config. [04:37]
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SvenDowideitoh choice.
my quick extract and integration of Data::Foswiki of course breaks MongoDB
nm, its not going to be used instantly
[05:04]
pharveyhooray for earth [05:05]
SvenDowideitoh nice - so micha noted that a meta obj doesn't init TOPICINFO all the time, and I now note that we pretty much never create a new topic object that is valid [05:06]
pharveybuy a new one [05:08]
SvenDowideitand we are :)
a new, shineyer one that comes in red
[05:09]
pharveyoh, I hate you tomcat, with the power of a thousand suns [05:12]
SvenDowideitgiggle [05:13]
pharveynone of my tomcat logs seem to be useful for gathering traffic stats [05:13]
SvenDowideitthat makes sense
you never ever put tomcat directly to the ourside world
you proxy it behind a safe and um, not crap webserver :p
[05:13]
pharvey'never' [05:14]
SvenDowideit:p
i love the word 'never' it carries so many laughable connotations
lol
[05:14]
pharveymaybe it's so obvious it doesn't need explaining [05:15]
SvenDowideiti can use the more formal termage [05:15]
pharveyclearly I'm an idiot and should be fired [05:15]
SvenDowideityou should always put an application server behind a proxy
and tomcat is .... :p
[05:16]
pharveyI don't have time to add more layers of breakage [05:16]
SvenDowideitna, you're just an amateur, and need, um, a professional consultant [05:16]
pharveyshit should just work [05:16]
SvenDowideiti can prepare you a 10 page report on how you should proceed!
it will of course be vague and inactionable, but at least you'd know
[05:16]
pharveypages 4-10 are ipsum lipsum aren't they [05:17]
SvenDowideitdepends on what day it is
does the day end in 'y'?
[05:18]
pharveyif only [05:19]
SvenDowideithell - we don't tell people that foswiki is also a long running heavy app server, and thus should have the same caveats [05:19]
***SvenDowideit sets mode: +ooo flexibeast jast pharvey [05:19]
pharveyhttps://secure.revion.com/knowledgebase/48/What-is-the-best-way-to-get-statistics-from-tomcat-logs.html
"Our recommended way for tomcat traffic reports is to implement "bug" 1x1 pixel image into your site and track visitors based on this "bug"."
[05:20]
SvenDowideiter, wow [05:20]
pharveyoh, not saying it's good advice or a good source of information, but it's about #5 on the first page of google tomcat logs stats [05:21]
SvenDowideityup, explains why the tradition i grew up with was toss the insecure bloatware java server behind a real webserver
its what we did in 1999 too
even proxying behind iis was considered better than allowing direct connections
[05:21]
pharveybut we have teh webscales 3.0 [05:22]
SvenDowideiti don't know what tomcat engineers actually say tho - but i'd be surprised if anyone suggests tomcat was even webscale 1.0 [05:23]
pharveyab -n 200 -c 3 http://keys.trin.org.au/key-server/data/0e0f0504-0103-430d-8004-060d07080d04/media/Html/taxon/Grevillea_robusta.htm gives 787 requests-per-second
which is kicking the shit out of Foswiki :P
(albeit static content)
[05:24]
SvenDowideiter, application...
its also reasonably well known you should not serve static content from the same server as the application content :p
SvenDowideit makes pharvey's life a misery
[05:25]
pharveypharvey implodes [05:26]
SvenDowideitdarn, i was hoping for an esplosion [05:27]
pharveyLOL. I forgot I was already running tomcat behind apache. That's what happens when you take 3 months off work. [05:30]
SvenDowideityou need my new patented brain upload feature [05:30]
pharveyironically, hitting tomcat directly is about 10% faster. Haha. [05:30]
SvenDowideit10%? for a static file? [05:30]
pharveyor at least 10% more throughput. [05:30]
SvenDowideitor for the heavy app [05:30]
pharveyfor the static file
hard to test the app, need to set up session etc.
[05:31]
SvenDowideitas you should add caching proxying for the static files [05:31]
pharveybut then what would this VM do all day? [05:32]
SvenDowideitmmm, i should really go find a source of dividends and other valuations raw data [05:32]
pharveyI need to keep it busy somehow [05:32]
SvenDowideityou do?
harumpf
SvenDowideit sends you the distributed foswiki renderer proposal
of course, it needs psgi :D
one plack server per core - 1 (for IO)
all proxied behind a session caching apache
oh, look , webscale!!
when the f*&^k will i stop being sick, the family just got another flu, sore ears all round
[05:32]
pharveyhow odd that unicode branch gets OOM-killed with RcsWrap and not RcsLite
would've thought it'd be the other way around
[05:36]
SvenDowideityeah, its a bit odd [05:37]
pharveySTDOUT/ERR shenanigans? Or... something :/
pharvey tries perl -CSAD
[05:41]
SvenDowideiti imagine its the overhead of forkin [05:42]
pharveybut... forking eats ram on every fork?
and only on unicode branch? Madness
[05:42]
SvenDowideitna, more that the spike of parsing a complicated ,v makes rcs go spazz
but who knows - measure is the only answer
[05:43]
pharveyit's an incremental leak - no particular test makes it sad
TestRunner.pl grows and grows
[05:44]
SvenDowideitoh that again [05:45]
pharveyif I was a workman blaming his tools I'd blame perl somehow, haha.
so instead I'll just blame the universe
[05:46]
SvenDowideitthere are plaenty of perl bbugs...
might be good to let jast know and see if he sees or knows something different
[05:46]
pharveyI added notes on the http://foswiki.org/Development/UnicodeSupport [05:47]
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holy crap
running perl -CSAD is the difference between epic memory leak and not, with RcsWrap
[06:02]
***ChanServ sets mode: +o MichaelDaum [06:09]
dj_segfaultAre there supposed to be any working lines in the root folder's .htaccess besides Options -Indexes and the redirect for index.html? [06:19]
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If I'm getting Internal Server Errors, is there a logfile I can look at for the nature of the errors? [06:36]
SvenDowideitdj_segfault, the apache error log first
the suexec or similar second
and if you're on a hosted server, then 'it depends'
and honestly, if you are hosted, i hope they're as good as dreamhost
[06:46]
MichaelDaumSvenDowideit, why do you think that I changed $meta->text() [06:47]
dj_segfaultExactly ;( The log files I have access through on their cpanel are just saying "File does not exist: /home/neagile/foswiki/public_html/500.shtml" [06:48]
SvenDowideitMichaelDaum, because in my definition of meta->text() an added \n is not correct [06:48]
MichaelDaumtrue [06:48]
dj_segfaultI'm on HostGator, who I *love* 96% of the time [06:48]
SvenDowideitbut if thats how foswiki has always been [06:48]
MichaelDaumand I did not change that [06:48]
SvenDowideitthen i'm willing to go with that for this 24 hrs :)
as the girls have the same flu pam and i started 2 days ago, and its the second in a row
[06:49]
MichaelDaumthe newline maze got me to Foswiki::UI::Save as your mentioned the extra newline only slipping in on a save => UI_FN ... which was the hint to the right place. [06:49]
FoswikiBothttp://trunk.foswiki.org/System/PerlDoc?module=Foswiki::UI::Save [06:49]
CDotyou need to get that seen to. So much 'flu isn't healthy :-( [06:49]
SvenDowideity - your comment shows we suck
CDot, yeah, cept thats how it goes here in the sub shitty tropics
[06:49]
MichaelDaumthis extra newline added to text during a save has been there for ages ... and yes it sux. [06:50]
SvenDowideitwinter is a time of horribleness, because of the temperature differences between min&max, and because everythig is built for higher temps
MichaelDaum, sweet, and good work
[06:50]
CDotah, the joys of a temperate climate! All we have to deal with is months and months and months and months and months of rain [06:51]
SvenDowideitCDot, y, and houses built to keep you at a steadyish temp [06:51]
CDot:-) [06:51]
dj_segfaultAHH! They finally told me what the real log says! "configuration error: couldn't perform authentication. AuthType not set!: /bin/configure, referer: http://wiki.agilenewengland.org/ " [06:51]
SvenDowideitrather than going from 10 c to 35c in one winter day [06:51]
CDotCDot has been watching "Grand Designs Austraia" and has yet to see a sensible house being built [06:52]
SvenDowideitharumpf
we havn't got that yet
maybe in 10 years time
and yup, that'd make 'sense'
[06:52]
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dj_segfaultCan anyone help me diagnose this one? When I go to http://wiki.agilenewengland.org/ I see no styles, but not the welcome page. It's a page with bullets for README, license, Installation guide, etc, then "Note: These pages do not need to be accessible by browsers. Preventing access will increase security and will not affect Foswiki in any way."
The redirect in the root is "Redirect /index.html http://wiki.agilenewengland.org/bin/view"
[07:07]
jastyeah, but did you specifically request /index.html? [07:08]
dj_segfaultNo. [07:08]
jast(but if you do, you get a 500 from the foswiki script)
didn't you use the ApacheConfigGenerator? it tends to set most things up correctly on its own
[07:08]
dj_segfaultWhen I do it does redirect to /bin/view then I get my friend the 500 again. yes [07:09]
jastthe 500 tends to be accompanied by entries in apache's error.log [07:09]
dj_segfaultThis is a hosted site so I don't have access to that.
Yes, the error is : "configuration error: couldn't perform authentication. AuthType not set!: /bin/configure, referer: http://wiki.agilenewengland.org/ "
[07:09]
jastoh, that'll be a bit tricky, then
right... what *can* you configure?
[07:09]
dj_segfaultYes. The support guy can tell me what's in the log file but I can't see it myself
.htaccess files.
[07:10]
jasthmm
is mod_rewrite enabled?
[07:10]
dj_segfaultBy way of context, the site has been running for almost a year, then I got an email from them saying it was being slammed from Chinese and Russian spiders so they did "something" [07:11]
jastoh hooray
and let me guess, they don't recall themselves what they did
[07:11]
dj_segfaultThey intimated they changed the DocumentRoot's .htaccess to put RerwriteRules in there to block spiders. I have that file. But I also renamed my DocumentRoot and restored from a backup about two weeks ago that's doing the same thing, so I'm pretty convinced that it's something to do with their files [07:12]
jastcan you provide a copy of the .htaccess file? [07:13]
dj_segfaulthttp://pastebin.com/dDLWQYwA
That's what's there now
What they had in there was "RewriteEngine On" and "RewriteCond %{HTTP_USER_AGENT} (bot|spider|crawler) [NC]" and "RewriteRule .* - [R=503,L]"
Oh, and ErrorDocument 503 "System Undergoing Maintenance". But none of that is currently in there.
[07:15]
jastthat's a bit silly, really [07:17]
dj_segfaultCrude, yes [07:18]
jastanyway. that looks like the default foswiki .htaccess file, but the assumption there is that everything is already configured in the virtualhost block
does bin/ have a .htaccess file, too?
if not, there is definitely some out-of-band configuration that's broken
after all, you've got a broken auth config for /bin/configure... can't come out of nowhere, now can it :)
[07:19]
dj_segfaultBut he's telling me he's seeing that message just going to http://wiki.agilenewengland.org/
I just noticed that in a backup copy there's no .htaccess and there is an index.html. I'm gonna try renaming the .htaccess
[07:20]
jastright, in that case the same broken config is applying to that, too [07:21]
dj_segfaultWhen I do that I get the Welcome to Foswiki content in the index.html but no CSS (no images, just the title, bullet list and the note)
http://wiki.agilenewengland.org/
[07:23]
jasttry requesting a CSS file directly... chances are you'll get the same 500 error. because the apache config is broken. :} [07:24]
dj_segfaultInteresting. When I put RewriteEngine On in the .htaccess then I got an internal server error. [07:25]
flexibeastIs there a existing plugin that can list all backlinks for all topics in a given web? [07:28]
dj_segfaultI've been waiting about 8 minutes for him to read me the last line of the error log file. I just asked him "Are you having it FedExed to you? "
Wait, when I go to http://wiki.agilenewengland.org/pub/System/RatingContrib/rating.css I get Forbidden. Is that right???
[07:35]
jastunlikely
it should either be subject to authorization or be routed through the viewfile script (in which case you'd be getting another 500), or just be available publicly
forbidden usually implies incorrect filesystem permissions, or custom configuration somewhere
[07:42]
dj_segfaultAll files are owned by the right user, pub is drwxr-xr-x, and the .htaccess has Allow from all
I tried putting a foo.html right in /pub and I'm getting a Forbidden on that. They're definitely screwing with me.
[07:44]
jastask them to give you the virtualhost config section [07:48]
dj_segfaultI have a feeling in addition to whatever they're doing to me, the rewrite rule in /.htaccess is wrong. When I tried to go to /pub/foo.html I got a Forbidden. When I renamed /.htaccess, then I can get to it. I thought "Redirect /index.html http://wiki.agilenewengland.org/bin/view" would only redirect http://wiki.agilenewengland.org to the view script, and shouldn't affect anything else. [08:00]
jastyeah
what's the rewrite rule, then?
[08:01]
dj_segfaultSorry I meant to say redirect. The only other active line in that file is "Options -Indexes"
http://wiki.agilenewengland.org/System/WebHome gives me a 404
[08:03]
jastyeah, that'd need additional configuration
without that, it can only work as /bin/view/System/WebHome
[08:05]
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dj_segfaulthttp://wiki.agilenewengland.org/bin/view/System/WebHome gives me internal server error.
I finally bullied him into making a support ticket after 4 hours of working with him. We'll see what happens from there.
And I have to be up in 2.5 hours for work. Later, folks.
[08:28]
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pharveyhihi [10:14]
jastpharvey: you merged just for me? I'm so flattered now :)
and hi to you too
[10:16]
CDotwhy is htpasswd.lock in core/working? [10:16]
pharveyjast: Hi! CDot might give you permission to push the unicode branch if you have a github account name you can give him
(and ask nicely, etc :-)
I remember somebody moved htpasswd.lock for a good reason
pharvey tries to recall
ah
CDot: might be Item11409
[10:18]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11409 [ Item11409: HtpasswdUser issues when shared between multiple Foswiki instances ] [10:21]
CDotah right - that's what's biting me right now too :-( [10:21]
pharveyFoswikirev:13556 [10:21]
FoswikiBothttp://trac.foswiki.org/changeset/13556 [ Changeset 13556 – Foswiki ] [10:22]
pharveyoh. That doesn't seem to be the commit... [10:22]
Maybe Item11458 [10:29]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11458 [ Item11458: TopicUserMapping blocks registration if passwords are not writable - FAIL!! ] [10:29]
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CDotI thought I'd fixed that one... [10:48]
pharveyI was adventuring to answer the question, why is htpasswd.lock in core/working :) [10:53]
CDotoh, ok. I think it's there because it's there. I need to separate WorkingDir anyway, so it's not a big deal. [11:03]
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GithubBot[foswiki] FoswikiBot pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/D6xU0Q
[foswiki/master] Item12081: set consistent #! shebang in scripts - GeorgeClark
[15:47]
***GithubBot has left [15:47]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item12081 [ Item12081: Insert a space into the shebang line of all scripts. ] [15:47]
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***adams.freenode.net sets mode: +o ChanServ [19:17]
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foswiki_irc3Hi guys, I have installed foswiki from the fosiki.com apt repository. Everything works great except the CompareRevisionsAddon, it give me a 404 though everything seems to be in place... any ideas? [19:50]
gac410The bin/compare file exists?
Double check your LocalSite.cfg and make sure that compare has a switchboard entry. $Foswiki::cfg{SwitchBoard}{compare} = {
'function' => 'compare',
...
[19:51]
foswiki_irc3yes it exists, as well as the modules in lib/../Plugin... I'll just check the switchboard
the switchboard entry seems to be missing. could you please post the whole section I'd need to have in there?
[19:53]
gac410It should have been merged from Foswiki/Contrib/CompareRevisionsAddOn/Config.spec .... It's in that file.
you should be able to just cut/paste the {compare} and {compareauth} entries from there.
Just running bin/configure, and change/save something inconsequential might fix it for you as well.
[19:57]
foswiki_irc3great thanks, I've pasted it in there and now it works [19:59]
gac410SvenDowideit: please read the last few lines. Might need some changes to your debian packages ... once you wake up. [20:00]
foswiki_irc3Well if just running bin/configure would do it maybe it isn't an issue, I don't know if the guy who originally installed it ever did that. [20:02]
gac410In the non-Deb foswiki install, you need to run configure initially and all that gets done for you on the first save. I assume with .deb install, the package is supposed to do a lot of that for you automagically [20:04]
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foswiki_irc3I looked a bit further and I suspect that bin/configure was never run in this installation as it's prevented by some very eager mod_security rule. So it's only an issue if this .spec-merging should happen during installation time of the deb, otherwise you can forget about it. [20:28]
.................................... (idle for 2h58mn)
SvenDowideitgac410, y, thats the depressing thing about configure
the debs need it to be run too
i suspect that one day i'll just have to breakdown and make configure have a simplistic cmdline that just saves
ie, load all specs and then LocalSite and then save with no changes
which really the web version needs to do too
[23:26]
gac410One time I did look at untangling the UI but it was hopeless (for me anyway) [23:27]
SvenDowideity, that would be the much more complicated option [23:28]
gac410Or even just a rest handler that will merge all the Config.spec files into LSC [23:28]
SvenDowideiti was thinking (without looking) that it might be possible to load&save and direct the UI to /dev/null [23:28]
gac410The bad part to me anyway is that configure doesn't detect those changes. It's just magic, not logged or displayed as a change. [23:29]
SvenDowideitagreed
thats (conceptually) just a hash diff algo change
rather than diffing all values to their defaults, diffing to only the LocalSite hash
[23:29]
gac410yeah. I don't know. the internals are a bit arcane in places :) [23:31]
SvenDowideityup [23:31]
gac410SvenDowideit: I think I made things a bit more friendly with perlbrew. Adding a silly space to the #! shebang means you can easily "revert" the shebang changes by rerunning rewriteshebang with /usr/bin/perl.
And I documented what I've been doing to run the unit tests under perlbrew Foswiki:Development/UnitTests toward the end.
[23:35]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Development/UnitTests [ UnitTests ] [23:35]
SvenDowideitneat :)
oh dear, I'm starting to think about adding from="FormName" to SEARCH&QUERY
though its just an simplification of "form.name ='FormName'"
Wish i was going to the GA, i need to talk to julian
[23:44]

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