#foswiki 2012-12-12,Wed

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WhoWhatWhen
SvenDowideitwow and :/
apache suexec does not allow me to have softlinks in the suexec dir
but if the suexec dir is a softlink itself, its 'ok'
[00:10]
gac410hm. well sort of. You can have links, but not outside of the server webroot filesystem or something litke that
Ie pseudo-install softlinks all work fine.
[00:11]
SvenDowideity, but is the suexec ''dir' __is__ a softlink
you basically are telling it that the docroot is elsewhere
and its ok with that
which is a brilliant exploit
[00:11]
gac410My server root is /var/www, so any links within / between /var/www .... directories is fine. But I tried moving /var/www/foswiki to a different file system due to space issues, and :P [00:12]
SvenDowideiti'm using this suexec together with userdir [00:13]
gac410Ah. [00:13]
SvenDowideitand its pretty interesting what you can abuse it to
softlink the suexec userdir to /
[00:13]
gac410Oh... you also cannot softlink within the /bin. I can't pseudo-install any bin scripts. [00:13]
SvenDowideitand then do wahtever you want [00:13]
***Rich_Morin has left [00:13]
SvenDowideitthe more i think about this the less this thing i'm using constatnly feels like a good idea :/
but it makes development very much easier
[00:14]
gac410So when I pseudo-install compareRevisionsAddOn, compare fails with 500, unless I copy it to be a non-soft link. The rules for SuexecUserGroup seem quite arcane at times. [00:15]
SvenDowideitSvenDowideit has little patience for custom bin scripts
oh poo, i think i need to totally re-do my server landscape :(
my dev box died a few hours before the GA, and 2 hours later i was on my way to syndey
and now i have the feeling (need to measure) that my current setup has doubled my power bills
[00:15]
gac410I ended up doing a bind type mount to get around suexec restrictions, forgot about it a year later, and "rm'd" duplicates that were not. [00:17]
SvenDowideitoutch :) [00:17]
mmm, gac410 and pharvey
I will need to talk to the stratus5 people soon wrt hosted cloud foswiki
can you guys give me some idea of a timeline wrt the board looking into it?
I'm currently thinking I will do it as fosiki if the foswiki association doesn't want to
[00:29]
gac410I'm still v. confused about how their proposal would work. I think it became clear as a non-profit we can't accept that type of revenue. [00:31]
SvenDowideiti don't think its clear - though meh
given that the association would not be providing a service, that money would be a donation
[00:31]
gac410It was based upon comments from the folks in germany where we are incorporated. The situation sounds a lot more complex than it would be here. [00:32]
SvenDowideitbut that ends up depending on the board being motivated enough to do whatever is needed to make something possible [00:32]
gac410Last thing I want is to face extradition to Germany :) [00:33]
SvenDowideitand y, i agree, it sounds like that motivation isn't there
ok - so, can i ask you / pharvey to confirm that the board has said 'no we won't take up the offer' when the first board meeting happens?
[00:33]
gac410Maybe it's language, but something about the proposal just struck me as strange. They offer a commercial service, They sell access to Foswiki, they won't provide support, but want to pay the F.A. for the right to use our software, which is free anyway [00:34]
SvenDowideitI'd rather the association does get money for free, and everyone in the community feels motivated to point others to that zero complexity install
they don't pay for the right
they just donate for the niceness and because they don't do marketing
to me it seems like a really simple and obvious thing, which is presumably why i fail to explain it :/
[00:35]
gac410I don't get what they get out of it. We get money, but we certainly suck at marketing, ie none at all for 1.1.6 [00:35]
SvenDowideitthey don't get paid unless someone mentions things that generate revenue for them
it costs them sod all to have a dormant foswiki cloud thing up there
as they run the registration, deployment and provisioning systems already
but if they get a few more paying users via our pointing people that have trouble installing to them
then they generate revenue
and so to motivate us, they offer something where atm we have nothing
[00:36]
gac410So they are saying, we pay you F.A. to recommend their service to people looking for a wiki, vs. say a self-install on D.H. [00:38]
SvenDowideitish
i would rephrase it as
we donate to the association whenever a user takes up foswiki hosting with us
if you choose to recomend us, we all win
and support for that system is the same as self-install on DH
community, or if you really need it, pay a consultant
[00:38]
gac410I'd want to have someone review a contract. But really I suspect someone who knows german non-profit corp. law would need to review to avoid troubles. [00:40]
SvenDowideitbut cleverly, they seem to make zero demands on how things are marketed - i think specifically because a dormant foswiki cloud signup is zero cost to them
i've not even gotten to the point of talking contracts with them
so that would be a sensible question for the board to put to them
[00:40]
gac410I don't have a problem with it. I just don't have the legal / business knowledge to even have a clue regarding the legalities of their suggestions. And as a board member I suppose there is some liability that attaches.
So I guess, I'd support it, provided there was some legal determination within the jurisdiction of our corporation saying we are not going to be in trouble.
I just don't know enough. Well I know that I don't know enough. :)
[00:41]
SvenDowideity, i grok that
the key point is to find out if anyone is interested or motivated enough to do that work
[00:44]
gac410So you could say you have my "qualified support" er... .what work? legal/corp? need someone in germany I suspect. [00:44]
SvenDowideitand if the answer is no, then the board should say no-thankyou, we're not motivated enough to worry about the legals
whatever is needed to go from where we are now to having it happen
[00:44]
gac410so 1) Need legal determination .... someone in germany. 2) Proposal on what they want us to do, Our responsibilities, their responsibilities, etc. think that has to come from them. [00:46]
SvenDowideitok, thats the same as no-action [00:47]
gac410do you think what I'm asking is unreasonable? [00:47]
SvenDowideitif the board does not drive, then nothing will happen
nothing
this is not a question of reasonable
its a question of do we want / not, and if we want then we have to do the work
where work includes finding out the legal aspects, and all sorts of other details
[00:47]
gac410So who do we ask about that? Who did our incorporation?
I sure don't have any contacts in Germany.
[00:48]
SvenDowideitwe did - with help from lawyers
and yes, i think oli is the last man standing
[00:49]
gac410I think this one would be better to work out on the board email list. not everyone is on irc to participate. [00:52]
SvenDowideitall i can do is ask for discussion :)
what i'd like (wish for) is to know after the first board meeting if there is a definite 'no' or a definite 'we will look into it'
where the second I would hope to be 'actively look into it'
[00:52]
gac410I think the outcome was we need more information. You have the contact with the company, can you lay out a proposal listing what you think are our and their responsibilities, obligations, etc. And then board says yea/nay on take it to a lawyer [00:54]
SvenDowideitno?
the discussion at the GA made it clear that i have zero understanding of the concerns that almost everyone else has
[00:54]
gac410If we go to a lawyer with an open ended question, we'll be drained.
I don't recall the concerns being more than. 1) is it legal, 2) Is it compatible with our tax status / incorporation, 3) and wtf is the proposal
[00:55]
SvenDowideitand so given that i know i don't understand the concerns, i'm totally not qualified to write that kind of thing [00:56]
gac410I sure as hell am not either.
I would tell stratus5. We have some interest, We don't know the tax / corporation limits without consulting a lawyer, to do that we need a proposal. Please come back with specifics about what you want and we'll have it reviewed. (provided it doesn't empty the coffers).
[00:57]
SvenDowideiteither way, i get the feeling that the presumption is that my communications and thoughts about it are much further along than they are
SvenDowideit stops realising that no, we're not going to talk each other into doing the work :)
[00:59]
..... (idle for 21mn)
kip3fFoswikiBot: seen kip3f [01:21]
FoswikiBotkip3f: kip3f was last seen in #foswiki 1 seconds ago saying "seen kip3f". [01:21]
kip3fi was curious about that [01:22]
SvenDowideitgrin [01:22]
kip3fhi Sven [01:22]
SvenDowideitheya :) [01:22]
kip3fI think that some of the confusion about stratus5
could be reduced by showing an example of how they work with another software project
[01:23]
SvenDowideitand they gave 2 eg's
vtiger and another
essentially, they gave us references we could go follow up
ah, openbravo
[01:24]
kip3fok ... we don't want to follow the vtiger example [01:25]
SvenDowideiti don't know what that means :) [01:25]
kip3fon their website, they say "click here to signup for 12/month"
I don't think anyone wants THAT for f.o
[01:25]
SvenDowideiti've never understood why not
in that i would list them the same way as all other 'releases' of foswiki
(without thinking too deep about it - in the table of how to get foswiki in the release topics)
but that is one of the reasons why i'd go for the money going to the association
that way everyone has a reason to like it on our project pages
it gets much harder to do that if (for eg) my company (er, single person) gets the money
on the other hand, if we imagine that the association does make money on it, i recon we'd have a hell of a time spending that money
[01:27]
kip3fgood problem to have tho [01:31]
SvenDowideitnot necessarily
as arguing about that has a good chance of creating similar bad will to just having the money all go to one person
[01:32]
kip3fI see your point [01:32]
SvenDowideitits not like the negativity towards twiki.net is now gone [01:33]
kip3fwell, if the foswiki assoication doesn't need the money
then ...
[01:34]
SvenDowideitthese are all q's that i would have liked to discuss with the community [01:35]
kip3fperhaps we can make a webpage listing foswiki commercial hosts [01:35]
SvenDowideitbut i had to go :/
mind you, i also gave up, because it was more negative / non-action than i can push against
[01:35]
kip3fwell, I think that people were not clear on exactly what was being proposed, [01:36]
SvenDowideit(er, i don't mean that in a bad way, just that in trying to make a decision, the temperature wasn't 'yay, lets doit' [01:36]
kip3fand there was an agenda to cover [01:36]
SvenDowideitthis was post adgenda!
ie, all business completed
ok - so to sum up from my pov
there was insufficient enthusiam for the idea for me to do more than ask for someone else that might be interested to take over
and i hope that the board can just simply determine that there is no-such-person, and then for us to tell them that
i am not advocating them, i just see this as a way to fill a need that foswiki appears to have
[01:36]
kip3fwell, here are the open questions as I see them:
If stratus5 pays the assn, will their be legal problems regarding non-profit status?
Given that stratus5 is paying the assn, they would generally expect something in return ... exactly what would that be?
What will the foswiki assn. do with the money? Does it need it?
[01:40]
SvenDowideityup, you seem to have the same q's as gac410 :)
they are good questions - my question is 'who is motivated to get answers to them'
[01:41]
kip3fwho indeed
Q #3 ... we can use the money to pay the lawyers for Q #1
[01:43]
SvenDowideitas without that, we should say no-thankyou to stratus5 [01:43]
kip3fwe shouldn't say nothanks
if they are providing foswiki hosting,
[01:44]
SvenDowideitif we can't find someone to do the work, we should [01:44]
kip3fthen we certainly should link to their site [01:44]
SvenDowideitthat presumes that they will provide foswiki hosting without someone else [01:47]
gac410They can also link to their site gratis. Our front page allows users to add example sites. [01:47]
SvenDowideitand that isn't what they seem to do
ok - lets take this discussion to a further conclusion
(this is speculative, but even so)
[01:47]
kip3fif they will not provide foswiki hosting services without f.o directly sponsoring their site, then I think that's somewhat odd [01:49]
SvenDowideitoption1 == foswiki association does it
option2 == foswiki ass says no for a number of reasonable reasons
and then someone like me takes up the offer
and thus there is a saas foswiki hosting option called http://foswiki.fosiki.com
therefore the project has a simple place to point users that don't want to go through installing and upgrading
whats the difference between these 2 options?
option1 has more community support, and thus probably would have a few extra people mentioning it than option2
and option1 would not be divisive until there are issues deciding what to spend it on
whereas option2 would be annoying for everyone?
[01:49]
kip3foption2 does not preclude option1 later
except for inertia
[01:53]
SvenDowideittrue too [01:53]
kip3fbut, option1 is not too feasible methinks ... because we WILL need to get it vetted by a lawyer [01:54]
SvenDowideitand people worried about disenfranchising the person that worked to do option2 (people are like that) and possible dilution of user visibility
we need all our association actions vetted by a lawyer
thats not really a problem
ok, i shoudl re-phrase
to me there is a much stronger STOP that comes a long way before - and that is a fundamental lack of enthusiasm for the idea
damn. my local::lib install didn't work with my foswiki
wish i had time to look into that :/
[01:54]
kip3ftoo bad your local::lib was not hosted by stratus5 [01:57]
gac410I can't get enthusiastic without understanding our obligations. Free money with no obligations ... sees too good to be true. There has to be a catch. [01:57]
SvenDowideitgac410, yup, and i won't argue against that :)
except to say that there does not need to be a catch - but while we're all more worred about its existance than enthused by whatever it might solve, we have a sopt point
[01:57]
gac410gac410 would be clicking on the "This stock is ready to pop" emails that come in 10 a day ... and the MY DEAREST FRIEND IN CHRIST... help me get this inheritance emails. [01:59]
SvenDowideitand the agile response is to get to stop as fast as possible [01:59]
kip3fwell I ASSUME that they are willing to give up some revenue to increase visibility of their name and to increase their business [01:59]
SvenDowideiter no? those you already know the catch - both its existance, and what it is
kip3f, that is their stated business model
not so much willing, but thats what they do
[02:00]
gac410So essentially we are selling them a "banner ad" and we get paid for each sale. I know... not precisely, but general concept. [02:01]
SvenDowideiti feel that analogy is flawed more because of the negative connotations you're conjuring
as i don't think those apply
i see it more as the approach that twiki.net should have taken
they add a small value to the world, without denegrating the open source project
[02:02]
gac410I had no negative connotations. Just trying to get a concept of what is being exchanged of value. BTW Twiki is part of it. [02:03]
SvenDowideityou may not have intended the connotations, but the association with banner ads is negative [02:03]
gac410Companies such as vtiger (leading open source CRM), Openbravo (leading open source ERP), and Twiki (leading open source wiki) are some of the leading open source vendors that are currently leveraging the Stratus5 platform for hosting [02:04]
SvenDowideitah, excellent - good to see its written down :) [02:05]
gac410Maybe "targeted ad" is better than "banner ad" then. But essentially paying for "product placement?"
http://forum.civicrm.org/index.php/topic,24318.0.html
[02:05]
SvenDowideity, that and good will
imo our spruiking it on irc would be higher value
but what do i know
[02:05]
gac410Anyway, so presented to the association and proposal to the attorney, can we accept revenue from "product endorsment" / "product placement" / "targeted banner ad" type references on the Foswiki.org site. [02:07]
SvenDowideitmmm, while i feel weird about putting it that way, as we would probly also make the signup etc foswiki.org branded
yes, that might be about the depth of the association commitment
the rest is er 'community driven' and so not the associations legal responsibility
[02:08]
gac410That's what I've been trying to get to. I think that defines it enough to AskAnAttorney ... Oli is our point of contact? [02:09]
SvenDowideitand as a secondary q - do we want to do that
y, oli &micha would be the tchermans :)
[02:09]
gac410I see nothing wrong with it. Other question... is it "exclusive"? [02:09]
SvenDowideitit felt like the answer was no, but yes, you guys would want to ask that ;) [02:10]
gac410And where does that put us with other "placements" - paid extensions, paid consultants, ... [02:10]
SvenDowideity [02:10]
kip3fand [02:10]
SvenDowideitand would the association use foswiki.com/net
and so on
[02:11]
kip3fwhat's stopping fosiki from providing a different foswiki distro [02:11]
SvenDowideitnothing [02:11]
gac410people / time / interest [02:11]
SvenDowideitit already does :) [02:11]
kip3fwith different set of plugins instegrated
and same for other consultants
[02:11]
SvenDowideitfosiki has rpm & deb & windows distros
they are really just the core, but in reality, they are all an opinionated distro
[02:12]
gac410We desperately need a doc review. Read Foswiki:Support/ShorterUrlCookbook lately? yech. [02:13]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Support/ShorterUrlCookbook [ ShorterUrlCookbook ] [02:13]
SvenDowideitand that would be the first thing i would request the association to pay for [02:13]
gac410And need to do a pass validating Extensions. Reports come in of them not working. T* claims they tested every extension against their new release. [02:13]
SvenDowideiteven if its micro payments to community members
SvenDowideit looks at crowdsourcing :)
[02:14]
kip3fhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowdspring
?
oh graphic-design focused
[02:16]
SvenDowideitloveit
they say one of largest
[02:17]
kip3fhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_crowdsourcing_projects [02:17]
SvenDowideitand i say never heard of them
cept actually i have :)
[02:17]
kip3fI like the name of this one: http://www.getaslogan.com/ [02:19]
SvenDowideithehe
i like uwiki.com
and stratus5 suggests i should just use them for it
and i'm thinking about it
mmm, uwiki.net is more the test idea tho
but gosh there's alot of work todo to make what i really want
[02:19]
kip3f"At the same time, I'm experimenting with new UI interactions - very similar to things we worked on in 2005 (Inline, Wikiwyg, Component edit), but browser support is much much better, so slicker." [02:23]
SvenDowideity, instant inline editing is really nice [02:24]
kip3fah [02:24]
SvenDowideitexcept that i have to also fix Wysiwyg editing [02:24]
kip3fis that the 'sectional edit' [02:24]
SvenDowideituwiki.net has a pretty nice inline wysiwyg edit, but WysiwygPlugin hates its html output
y, sectional and wysiwyg
[02:24]
gac410Sven... all ... anybody seen *any* other key except {ScriptUrlPaths}{view} ... [02:34]
SvenDowideityes
i can't recal what it was for tho :/
[02:35]
gac410:( In any event it needs to be edited into the config. except for {view} that is. [02:36]
SvenDowideityup
its very advanced :)
back when micha made the deleted single bin script
there were uses to distribute things
argh!
dammit, this was working
[02:36]
gac410okay thx. Timothe trying to understand it. [02:37]
...... (idle for 25mn)
SvenDowideitoh wow
Argument "5.8.1" isn't numeric in numeric lt (<) at /var/lib/foswiki/lib/Foswiki/Configure/Checker.pm line 505.
mmm, thats 1.1.5
i presume this is me hitting the versions issue?
[03:02]
gac410Hm. Ah... is that the issue that rcs or something added a 3rd level to it's version? [03:04]
SvenDowideitoh, i wonder
bingo
[03:04]
gac410yeah. 1.1.6 fixed it ... (i hope :D ) [03:04]
SvenDowideittalk about a trillion things todo
thanks :)
[03:04]
gac410yeah. I was pretty sure that sounded familiar.
Item11955
[03:05]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11955 [ Item11955: Configure fails with new RCS version, Argument "5.8.1" isn't numeric in numeric lt (<) ] [03:06]
SvenDowideitSvenDowideit does the simplest thing that he has to and stops paying work to make the 1.1.6 deb :) [03:06]
...... (idle for 25mn)
pharvey1asd;flkj [03:31]
gac410yeah your keyboard works. not sure if the connection between hand and brain is correct though... :)
Or is that your password?
[03:31]
pharvey1haha, sorry. wrong window (I seem good at crashing software at the moment) [03:33]
.... (idle for 16mn)
gac410Sven: So if Sven just sets MaxLSCBackups to 0, he should be all set...
That disables the backup facility.
[03:49]
SvenDowideitmm, ok :)
i just made a patch to convert the die to a print STDERR
but that is simpler
as it seems i have to change the cfg i ship too
mmm, actually, no the patch needs to stay :/
[03:50]
pharvey1It seems my LocalSite.cfg can't be a symlink
and $Foswiki::cfg{Plugins}{UpdatesPlugin}{ConfigureUrl} just went from '$Foswiki::cfg{ScriptUrlPath}/configure$Foswiki::cfg{ScriptSuffix}' to '$Foswiki::cfg%7BScriptUrlPath%7D/configure$Foswiki::cfg%7BScriptSuffix%7D'
sigh sigh sigh
[03:52]
gac410That was just the last check I think... I just noticed it and reported it.
er. last checkin
[03:54]
pharvey1ok [03:55]
gac410Or at least the last day maybe. Timothe has had a few recent changes.
What happens with LSC is a symlink.
[03:55]
pharvey1it somehow gets clobbered into being a real file [03:56]
gac410Ah. I think he might write a new file and rename to avoid clobbering a good existing file. which will also kill Sven's no-create issue.
I just sent him an email for that as well.
[03:57]
pharvey1I mean, I'll admit I probably should find a better way than using a symlink
it's just a lazy habit :)
(I track my LocalSite.cfg in git).
[03:58]
SvenDowideitpharvey1, easy [03:58]
gac410nah... we should not be surprising people [03:58]
SvenDowideitdebian has the lsc in /etc/foswiki
and so that is what LocalLib.cfg points to
actually
i had to reverse it
$foswikiLibPath = "/var/lib/foswiki/lib";
@localPerlLibPath = "/etc/foswiki";
and by the power of greyskull, /etc/foswiki/LocalSite.cfg is used
[03:58]
pharvey1haha, cool [04:00]
SvenDowideitthat way, configure can be told to get nicked [04:01]
pharvey1I was vaguely aware of this, just haven't tried it [04:01]
SvenDowideitits tested on every debian install [04:01]
julian_workSvenDowideit: why did u highlight me then?
You didn't even say my name
lol
[04:01]
SvenDowideitjulian_work, wow, nice :) [04:01]
julian_worknicked : that might be the keyword.
good way to see I'm still paying attention.. :)
[04:01]
SvenDowideitoi nicked it [04:02]
pharvey13:15pm and no coffee! [04:02]
SvenDowideitoh dear :)
2:25 pm and i've acheived nothing i need to acheive
but i've done 3 non-essentail things that are in my way :(
and there's a 1.1.6 deb being uploaded to the repo atm
it'll be interesting to see what else is new
[04:02]
julian_workSvenDowideit: yup. Nicked is the key word. [04:04]
SvenDowideitoh well, what a weird world :) [04:05]
julian_workindeed [04:05]
SvenDowideityup, time to go do something useful, i'm off to mow the lawn [04:06]
julian_workcan you do mine too? [04:06]
gac410pharvey, Timothe is working on the entity encoding issue, and is going to realpath LSC so it finds the right location to store files. [04:09]
pharvey1awesome! :) [04:11]
..... (idle for 21mn)
SvenDowideitoh wonderful
the sap libraries i'm using don't work under suexec
[04:32]
gac410SvenDowideit: Is there a good description of where files are stored. and what is readonly maybe by Foswiki tarball, .deb .rpm [04:32]
SvenDowideitSvenDowideit has no feet
i'm very very close to running my linux development desktop as root
gac410, i think i did describe it once
/var/lib/foswiki == normal foswiki install
[04:32]
gac410pharvey. UpdatesPlugin is a spec bug. Field is defined as a URL when it's a URLPATH [04:33]
SvenDowideitexcept that /etc/foswiki has LocalSite.cfg [04:33]
gac410timothe will check it in. [04:33]
SvenDowideitand that is all
what is readonly? mmm
that should be the opposite
[04:33]
gac410okay cool I thought that bin was moved outside of the webroot. into cgi-bin [04:34]
SvenDowideiteverything in your web server areas should be readonly
except for the barest essentialls for normal operations
setup is rare, and so shoudl not be how the thing is secured by default
yes, it once was, but there are a heap of reasons that is crap
so i don't do that anymore
[04:34]
gac410okay good. Then much simpler than I rememberd. and now deja vu all over again hits. we have had that conversation. [04:35]
SvenDowideitmany times :) [04:35]
gac410Why do I remember stuff like rcs version 5.8.1 not numeric and cant recall this other stuff. [04:35]
SvenDowideitbecause you remember the first instance of things?
and if you used the debs pre-2006, then it would have been that way
[04:36]
gac410who knows. I guess it was more dealing with intense pain on irc. Though 2006 was before I started with foswiki. Hm speaking of debian, we should remove the WARNING NEVER USE APACHE CONFIG GENERATOR warning from ACG.
for debian users.
[04:37]
SvenDowideitno, we should not
they should never ever use it
they shoudl never ever use configure to install extensions either
[04:37]
gac410That part I know.
er....
[04:38]
SvenDowideitdebian users should use what the debian package provides them
anything else, and they need to know enough to decide for themselves
ie, if they know enough to change the apache conf, then they should not need to ask for help here
not to say they are not welcome to ask, but by god i hope their brain is switched on
its hard enough testing _one_ cfg
[04:38]
gac410btw have you tried the new email wizard in trunk configure. Just enter a hostname and click the Auto-Configure button. It attempts connections to 587 , 465 and 25, in order of preferred security, checks for TLS, tels you if you need a userid/password, Tells you if you are missing a required AUTH method.
er. STARTTLS not TLS. Net::SMTP::SSL and Net::SMTP::TLS are no longer needed.
I've tested against gmail, postfix, 2 versions of exchange, and my ISP whatever they use. It's all just worked"
[04:50]
GithubBot[foswiki] FoswikiBot pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/yRf44Q
foswiki/master 17f1296 TimotheLitt: Item12180: Specification file needs to request the correct checks (and item type) for {Plugins}{UpdatesPlugin}{ConfigureUrl}...
[04:51]
***GithubBot has left [04:51]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item12180 [ Item12180: Implementation for AJAXOnDemandCheckersForConfigure ] [04:51]
SvenDowideitnope, i avoid configure on trunk
pretty much every time i try to use it, it fails
right now it complains at me about js version mismatch, and then reveals to hackers file system details they shoudl never know
which tells me that configure knows enough to fix itself
argh!
[04:55]
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***gac410 has left [05:36]
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MartinKaufmannHi MichaelDaum: What else could I try to get the update of SolrPlugin up and running? [07:26]
MichaelDaumHi Martin. I have no clue what's going wrong on your install. [07:27]
MartinKaufmannMichaelDaum: Initially, you were talking about Makefiles. Is there more than one? Maybe I'm not using the right one.
Is there more than one?
[07:32]
.... (idle for 17mn)
MichaelDaum: Sorry, it was a problem on my end. I made a mistake adjusting the path in the Makefile... ;-(
lt
[07:50]
......... (idle for 40mn)
MichaelDaum: Next problem while indexing: ERROR: 400 ERRORunknown_field_collection
at /home/httpd/foswiki-1.1.6/lib/WebService/Solr.pm line 185
Plus the facets and the TagMePlugin tags in SolrSearch are gone.
[08:30]
MichaelDaumplease update schema.xml in your solr server
I am not aware that tagmeplugin and solrplugin are sharing tags
[08:34]
MartinKaufmannThere is the following setting:
{Plugins}{TagMePlugin}{SolrPluginIndex}
http://foswiki.org/Extensions/TagMePlugin#Foswiki:Extensions.SolrPlugin_integration.
[08:37]
......... (idle for 41mn)
jasthmm, EmptyPlugin claims that afterEditHandler is only called on preview, but Save.pm appears to be dispatching it on save and checkpoint instead
Preview.pm dispatches it, too
[09:19]
CDotjast: I thought the semantics of afterEditHandler were such that it should only be called on save/checkpoint and *not* on preview.....
after all, a preview is not a committed save
[09:30]
OliverSchaubHi @all... we're trying to get foswiki to run on a 64bit SL-6 setup and experiencing severe Problems with perl-Regular Expressions. As soon as a SEARCH has the "type=regex" parameter, we get an error 500 and have to restart Apache. Anyone having experience in running foswiki on a 6bit Linux System? [09:37]
jastCDot: for committed saves, there's always beforeSaveHandler [09:38]
OliverSchaubWe're on nativesearch... [09:38]
jastpretty much all of our wikis at work run on 64-bit systems, but we never really use regex searches [09:39]
CDotjast: true. I never really understood/liked/used the afterEditHandler [09:39]
jastCDot: I don't think I'll be using it either, I just noticed that while looking at something else [09:39]
CDotjast: what sort of searches do you use? Did you mean "...use regex or query searches usinf the default mechanisms"? [09:40]
jastwe generally use Solr-based search since SEARCH is pretty slow if you have thousands of topics [09:40]
CDotOliverSchaub: does nativeSearch run OK from the command line?
can you craft a min-CGI script to invoke NativeSearch from the command line..... does it work?
[09:41]
OliverSchaub@CDot: yes... tried the testscripts, and they work fine [09:41]
CDotand when run as the apache user....? [09:42]
MartinKaufmannOliverSchaub: We're running Foswiki on the following machine:
Linux wiki 2.6.26-2-amd64 #1 SMP Tue Jan 25 05:59:43 UTC 2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[09:42]
OliverSchaublemme check... [09:42]
jastmaybe apache has more restrictive resource limits [09:42]
MartinKaufmannDoes this error message run a bell?
Failed to acquire random test lock; please verify filesystem for lock directory './solr/data/index' supports locking
[09:42]
jastMartinKaufmann: what filesystem/OS is that on? [09:43]
MartinKaufmannjast: Debian ext3/4 (not Windows) [09:45]
jasthmm
this doesn't seem to be an error message from SolrPlugin; rather it seems to be coming from Solr itself
[09:45]
OliverSchaub@CDot: The test-script runs as user Apache too... [09:46]
CDotOliverSchaub: via a CGI script? [09:46]
OliverSchaubno, directly on the console...
my perl knowledge is rather basic... I'll try to come up with a simple script...
[09:47]
MartinKaufmannjast: I get this error message when trying to index a topic. [09:48]
CDotOliverSchaub: doesn't have to be perl (at first anyway) just create a shell script in the foswiki bin/ directory
#!/bin/sh
.... then whatever command you need to run the NativeSearch code on something useful
then invoke it via a web browser
[09:49]
OliverSchaubAh ok... lemme try... [09:51]
....... (idle for 30mn)
CDot: OK, made a script which invokes FoswikiNativeSearch and ran it as user Apache... no errors. I'm not quite sure how I could run this from the browser, though. [10:21]
CDotif you put the script in the foswiki bin/dir, then you can run it like any other foswiki bin script
simply look at the url used to access the 'view' script, for example, and replace 'view' with the name of your script
this is all assuming you haven't done anything too crazy with the apache config, of course
[10:21]
OliverSchaubWe of course did... ;-)
need to change the config... just a sec
OK... when I run it from the Browser, it crashes with the error 500...
[10:23]
CDotyour apache log will have more info [10:27]
pharvey1I wonder why I'm too stupid to use Foswiki::Func::saveAttachment() [10:30]
FoswikiBothttp://trunk.foswiki.org/System/PerlDoc?module=Foswiki::Func [10:30]
OliverSchaubSorry, I was wrong... the server was already crashed when I tried... just ran it again, and no errors. The Apache-Log remains silent. [10:31]
CDotare you searching for something equivalent to the search that is bringing down foswiki?
you need to push the resource usage
[10:34]
OliverSchaubCan I just add Search-options the call? Now I do something like: perl ../tools/native_search/FoswikiNativeSearch.pm fo.*swiki [10:35]
CDotI would guess you need lots of hits
and lots of data to search
if that still looks ok, then the next thing is to replace the shell script with a perl script
and then put that perl script under fcgid (assuming you are using it)
[10:36]
pharvey1Apparently I'm too stupid to use Foswiki::Meta->attach() too... this is a really stupid day. [10:37]
FoswikiBothttp://trunk.foswiki.org/System/PerlDoc?module=Foswiki::Meta [10:37]
CDoti.e. get it closer and closer to what foswiki is doing until it breaks
pharvey1: you are probably too hot. Try supercooling your head in a bath of liquid nitrogen.
[10:37]
pharvey1Pfft. The nearest liquid nitrogen is at least 200m from here [10:39]
CDotall I have to do is stick my head out the window. Not as cold as liquid nitrogen, but it feels pretty close. [10:39]
OliverSchaubCDot: Thanks for the Tips so far... I'll try to narrow it down (and to write a working perl *sigh*). I'll get back to you when I know more... cu [10:40]
CDotOliverSchaub: ok. I suspect it will prove to be an interaction with fcgid somewhere along the line [10:40]
OliverSchaubOne last observation... when we remove the "type=regex" from our searches, it works. So, simple queries seem to actually work.
could pcre be the problem?
[10:42]
CDotyou are running a regex search from the command-line, so I doubt it.
it mat be something to do with re-entrancy in the pcre library, but again, I doubt it
but I don't know. I don't have a failing platform to test it on.
[10:49]
SvenDowideitargh! i found a backup of the raid array i thought i lost! [10:51]
OliverSchaubOK, thank you very much for now... hopefully, I'll find the culprid. cu [10:52]
SvenDowideitand that my server sack uses ~300w when idle :( [10:52]
CDotSvenDowideit: about the same as a fridge-freezer [11:04]
SvenDowideity, and also about double the rest of the house's base load [11:10]
CDotsolar PV would more than cover that [11:13]
harlanIs there a recommended passwd encoding, or is it "not crypt"? [11:14]
SvenDowideitCDot thankyou - we've defered that, but its a good point
harlan yes - not-foswiki
aka not-htpasswd file
[11:18]
harlan'k, thanks SvenDowideit [11:19]
SvenDowideittho i hear that bcrypt is good if you must use htpasswd
i like ldapcontrib for big
but i like CasLogin sso more :}
[11:19]
CDotCDot reckons less than a third of houses in Perth WA have PV arrays of 4kW or bigger. Madness. [11:20]
harlanharlan elooks at CasLogin - we're gonna look at LDAP sometime, soon. [11:20]
SvenDowideitthere is legislation limiting us to 4 or 5 W
because the power companies whined
[11:20]
CDoty, we're limited to 4, or it becomes 'commercial' [11:20]
SvenDowideit'it breaks the grid' or someshit [11:20]
CDotpffft [11:20]
SvenDowideity
before last year, some sensible people were putting 30kw on it
[11:21]
CDotmind you, they pulled the run out from under your feed-in system, so not as attractive as it was
^run^rug
[11:21]
SvenDowideity, thats coming too
plus there's legislatoin saying you can't have a battery system if you're connected to the mains
[11:21]
CDotstill, a 4kW array should be no more that $8K [11:22]
SvenDowideity, so ~8 years of my server load :/
won't be an issue when i have an income again, but for now, both costs hurt too much
[11:22]
CDotsure; I know that feeling! [11:24]
SvenDowideityup [11:24]
CDotgo and work in Kimberley for 6 months. You can get $20K p.a. for cleaning. [11:24]
SvenDowideitcept thats not realistic for several reasons [11:25]
CDot:-( [11:25]
pharvey1have funz [11:32]
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gac410gac410 gets so lost when topics include sections that include sections that ... WebSearch fails to pick up the SEARCHDEFAULTTTYPE parameter. But it seems to be included on the page. I'm lost. [19:30]
........................................ (idle for 3h19mn)
damasterAnyone else noticed strange TOC links (seemingly) caused by EditChapterPlugin? All my TOC outputs have EditChapter links after each entry.
Looks like it was supposedly fixed in April, but it looks like its back. Is Michael around?
[22:49]
Adding a task (ITEM 12292) on Foswiki.org for this [23:03]

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