#foswiki 2013-02-12,Tue

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GithubBot[foswiki] FoswikiBot pushed 1 new commit to Release01x01: http://git.io/3_9VIg
foswiki/Release01x01 0a73e4f SvenDowideit: Item12389: update patches for 1.1.7...
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item12389 [ Item12389: debian pkg for 1.1.7 ] [00:25]
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GithubBot[foswiki] FoswikiBot pushed 1 new commit to Release01x01: http://git.io/uUBMzg
foswiki/Release01x01 44c7053 SvenDowideit: Item12389: update patchlist...
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SvenDowideitmmmm
gac410, we need to do something about jquery
[01:00]
gac410wassamatter [01:00]
SvenDowideiti keep coming across foswiki's that are running 1.1.5,6 (and now 7)
but have JQueryVersion set to 1.4.3
and there's nothing warning them that they have doooooooom
plus, the jquery theme is unset
[01:00]
gac410hm... Doesn't the config checker complain? [01:01]
SvenDowideitnope [01:01]
gac410:P [01:01]
SvenDowideitshould it? [01:01]
gac410Well, given that old versions are being removed, it probabaly ought to warn about backlevel setting. [01:02]
SvenDowideit(as in, i agree, it could do with a checker, but i don't know if it has one)
that oo
[01:02]
gac410Oh... No idea. ... looking [01:02]
SvenDowideiti wonder what i have here
wow
so this system is on 1.1.7
[01:02]
gac410jQuery 1.3.x and earlier are not compatible with Foswiki default plugins .... that's the check [01:03]
SvenDowideitand has jquery versions 1.4.2->1.8.2 in the pub dir
but its set to 1.4.3
[01:03]
gac410Yeah, if you upgrade the 0ld version stay behind. [01:03]
SvenDowideitcourse, it doesn't appear to havce broken anything
unlike when _other_ people upgrade their debian
[01:04]
gac410It probably ought to somehow warn when the chosen version is not the default version. Failures are subtle I suspect. [01:04]
SvenDowideitwhen the twistie cookies die, and all sorts of doom
SvenDowideit hears about terrible things, but they never happen to me
something to do with my never skipping a version
[01:04]
gac410Definitely 1.2 should get a checker. I don't want to do 1.1.8 :) [01:06]
SvenDowideitgrin [01:06]
gac410No checker for the theme. [01:06]
SvenDowideitoh well - we agree :) thats all that matters [01:07]
gac410I'm not sure there is a way to examine the "default" setting vs. the current setting in a checker. [01:07]
SvenDowideitmmm, ask tim >:} [01:07]
gac410Probably is, since the gui can show the default. But I don't know how to get to it.
Tim has been MIA ... no email replies in over a week.
[01:07]
SvenDowideitdamnit, don't these people realise that foswiki is their one and only priority? [01:08]
gac410er. Timother ... I'm not sure he's a "tim" :)
er Timothe I'll get it eventually
[01:08]
SvenDowideitoh well :)
SvenDowideit has never been able to be precious wrt names - almost no-one pronouces mine properly - including me
[01:08]
gac410I was hoping he'd validate the @ISA hack I came up with for SSL email ... It works for me but... [01:09]
SvenDowideiti hope it works :) cos i've applied it to the deb [01:10]
gac410gac410 has the name that never ends. g.e.o.r.g.e...o.r.g.e...o.r.g.e.o.r.g.e From a very old George Carlin comedy routine. [01:10]
SvenDowideitnice! [01:11]
gac410If you have a way to validate SSL email esp. under fastcgi (like to gmail) that would be a good test. I've held off doing a patch waiting for Timothe or anyone with object foo knowledge to verify. [01:11]
SvenDowideitmmm [01:12]
gac410I did set up a fastcgi server and with my patch, was able to register users.
Without the patch, I get the recursive object definition.
[01:12]
SvenDowideitthere's a big problem with my having only one server atm
i can't really do much testing :/
[01:13]
gac410I updated my laptop to the newest "udev" layer, which needed a kernel config change to disable the kernel ide drivers. and now my drive keeps spinning down and system gets sluggish ... really annoying. [01:16]
SvenDowideitvery
i've sidestepped inertial rust systems, so i don't see things like that as much
[01:16]
gac410Can't find anyone else complaining. Maybe an apm or acpi issue, I'm not sure. [01:17]
SvenDowideiti have a stupid number of disk based drives just sitting in shelves now
mmm, so the 1.1.7 deb works for me
[01:17]
gac410I keep them as backups. :) Just finished syncing over 200G to my last laptop drive as a backup. [01:18]
SvenDowideiti think i'll just release it on the unsuspecting world >:} [01:18]
gac410:_
:)
[01:18]
SvenDowideityup, backups too
thats why i put up with the slowness that is linux software raid
[01:18]
gac410usb 3.0 is really fast. :) [01:19]
SvenDowideiti'm looking forward to getting something that has sata3 - usb3 is way too modern for me :) [01:19]
gac410yeah. I played around with an esata card, but added a pci-express usb3 for my backup drive caddy. [01:20]
SvenDowideitmeanwhile, i <3 my new wifi-ac router - browsing massive images that are on my file server from my notebook is astounding - compared to the old slow wifi-g
nice
ok, rpm and debs qued up to be pushed online tonite
[01:20]
gac410cool [01:24]
SvenDowideitnext up, mumble mumble windows mumble
course, i don't have a functioning vm for that yet
so my MS tax is to re-re-re-re-re^2^2^2^2^2...... install again-again
SvenDowideit is quite over that
[01:24]
gac410I downloaded some msi builder tools and tried to poke at it a bit, but got lost. [01:25]
SvenDowideity, it takes alot of learning [01:25]
gac410tbh I'm not sure of the benefit of bundling strawberry and apache. IMO better to just install separately. [01:26]
SvenDowideitand tbh, i'm not that interested - my next thing will be to replace both windows things with just the usbstick version
and to not include apache - rather to use plack
users complained bitterly
so i included it all
maintainers complain about bundling, users complain when its unbundled...
guess who installers are for :)
[01:26]
gac410I was playing around with lighttpd on a deb. vm. looks very easy, must simpler to configure. But the windows binary is old, and has some unpatched CVE [01:27]
SvenDowideitwhich is why i'd rather just do the usb one
with just perl
no web server needed
[01:27]
gac410y. Nice for the portable user. But for the site that really wants a production web server ... I'm not convinced. [01:28]
SvenDowideitif you are a _production_ serer
then you f**king better have the nuts to install properly
[01:28]
gac410Then again, I'm not sure why windows in the first place :D [01:28]
SvenDowideitthe installers i provide on windows are for trying and learning
SvenDowideit knows thats not the reality
but its impossible to provide a low budget installer that caters for more than one use-case
and i don't pretend that i do
[01:28]
gac410gac410 doesn't like to see us in the business of distributing apache or perl. [01:29]
SvenDowideitSvenDowideit prefers to be in the business of making things simpler
and without, was judged to be too complex by actual users
[01:30]
gac410I really like the plack / psgi solution. I know of one site that was using WOAS to ship engineering documents to a supplier [01:31]
SvenDowideityup
thats excellent
though one day, it'd be nice to hear from people like that
SvenDowideit can count the feedback from users of WOAS on one hand
[01:31]
gac410he talked to us a bit, but was not allowed to say much. I used to work with him. [01:31]
SvenDowideity - thats the norm :)
the windows installer, and the osx, deb, rpm etc stuff
was all created for shipping training docs to users
very cool project - but er, my my, 5 years or so ago
[01:32]
gac410It was a company that won the x-prize for sub-orbital launch
The only problem with plack is it sounds like a dental disease
[01:33]
SvenDowideitSvenDowideit will endeavour not to mention what makes it go :) [01:35]
gac410:) [01:36]
SvenDowideitand will quietly ignore the installer i think
have to think about it :/
[01:36]
gac410which installer? The Apache/Strawberry/Foswiki? [01:36]
SvenDowideity
and instead focus on WOAS
[01:36]
gac410IMO then we probably ought to remove it. Replace it with some upgrade instructions or something. [01:37]
SvenDowideity, should [01:37]
gac410Esp. because of the CVEs [01:37]
SvenDowideitas WOAS is so much more inline with the reason i made the installer
and is harder for people to upscale without realising their doom
wheras using the debs in production seems to work for alot of people/companies - including me
mmm
before i decide tho
i might jsut look at the stats
[01:37]
gac410Y, I have no objection at all with .deb or .rpm... Great idea, though need to be kept up to date. But you've been keeping up with that. [01:39]
SvenDowideiti've been better recently
but only in treading water
there's been no new dev
SvenDowideit hopes that ms's http://modern.ie vm's can be used for this
[01:40]
gac410$20/month at http://www.browserstack.com/pricing No thanks.
I have XP VM's with IE6, IE7 and IE8 installed. but that's where my local testing ends.
[01:43]
SvenDowideiter
you need to read more
[01:44]
gac410y. Just saw the vms. [01:44]
SvenDowideit$20 is if you use that service [01:44]
gac410y
I think ArthuraClemens has access to browserstack
[01:44]
SvenDowideitand its a pretty good price - when you need that kind of thing - i waste more than $20 of my time on installation and stuff every month :)
zactly
tho it is something the foswiki foundation could consider
to make testing more realistiv
especially if its scriptable
http://sourceforge.net/projects/foswiki/files/foswiki/1.1.2/Foswiki-1.1.2-0-strawberry.exe/stats/timeline?dates=2008-07-01+to+2013-02-12
er, 769 downloads in one month?
like mumble!@
[01:45]
gac410disappointingly high for such an old release. ;) [01:48]
SvenDowideitthat too
oh wonderful
and i've not updated my awstats for fosiki.com in a few years
so i have nothin
[01:49]
pharveywots woas? [01:49]
gac410I like the differentiation between "Try it / Portable" and "A real server" distributions. WOAS Plack for the quick try folks. And then an unbundled installer for the real server crowd
Wiki on a Stick
Sven, Can the new plack woas be installed on hard drive rather than a stick?
[01:50]
SvenDowideityou can like it - but none of us has time to put the work and testing into a 'real server installer'
yes
the only thing is that you have to copy the dirs into the root of the disk
[01:50]
gac410Ah... need to put it in the root, can't be in a user directory? [01:51]
SvenDowideitbecause strawberry perl makes asumptions [01:51]
gac410No... I meant your new plack version [01:51]
SvenDowideitaka - perl is compiled using specific paths
my new plack versions will still be limited by the perl issues
[01:51]
gac410okay [01:52]
SvenDowideitand by path length limitaionts [01:52]
gac410Is it windows only? [01:52]
SvenDowideitif you put your foswiki in c:\Users\SvenDowideit\Documents and Files\Something\foswiki etc
then windows has a spaz
[01:52]
gac410:) [01:53]
SvenDowideitum, talk to me after i've actually done it
the _test_ code i made was on windows
[01:53]
pharveyI wonder if I should finish git-autobisect.pl [01:53]
SvenDowideitbut its not like a PlarkContrib might be impossible [01:53]
gac410If it bundles strawberry, that probably answers my question :) [01:54]
pharveyI got stuck trying to pick a git API on cpan [01:54]
SvenDowideitits more that i need to get it done quickly, so i can go back to the other things that interrupted what i shoudl be doing :)
the WOAS bundles perl (strawberry)
else its as useless as the zip files we ship
[01:54]
gac410gac410 sometimes doesn't get it. Installing Strawberry and Apache is really not difficult. Now the apache configuration, well that's another story :) [01:55]
SvenDowideitimo its simple [01:55]
pharveyGit::Raw or Git::PurePerl or some Git::Wrapper abomination [01:55]
SvenDowideitusers see a web page / someone telling them to try foswiki
so they download the file, and then nothing happens
[01:55]
gac410pharvey. Shell script? [01:56]
pharveyoh yeah, and Git::Repository [01:56]
gac410y. If user expects it to "just work" with a single download/install, our zpifiles are useless. [01:56]
pharveygac410, perhaps I should. But I dont' want to parse porcelain plumbing myself [01:57]
gac410:) [01:57]
SvenDowideitok, how scary is this - it looks like there are ~2500 users of the deb repo hitting the files in the last 2 days [01:57]
gac410wow. [01:57]
pharveyhits, or users? [01:57]
gac410And how much of that is harvesters / scrapers / searchers [01:57]
pharveySvenDowideit you are the reason our sf.net stats are depressed! :P [01:57]
SvenDowideitthese are hits on the Release.gpg
not really
as thats users typing apt-get update
not installing something
ok, 18 hits in that time are crawlers
[01:58]
gac410Ah... so if they ever added the foswiki repo to their list, then the update will pull information. [01:59]
SvenDowideitso yes, mostly i think i can say there are at minimum 1000 users of the repo that update their repository list in the last day [01:59]
gac410cool [01:59]
SvenDowideitand __10__ downloaders of the twiki 4.2.3 vm
8 people installed the 1.1.6-2 deb
so will get updates tomorrow >:}
meanwhile, ~178-300 updating their rpm repo
__in 2 days__
as thats the log files i have
http://sourceforge.net/projects/foswiki/files/foswiki/1.1.7/stats/timeline?dates=2013-01-01+to+2013-02-12
so compared to that
[02:00]
gac410pharvey, I use cd ../../..; git bisect bad; cd - for "bibad" and a similar "bigood" So I can sit in the unit test directory, run a test, bibad/bigood., repeat, repeat ...
Never saw the need to get more automated than that.
[02:03]
pharveyI want a script that blames every test failure on a specific commit.
and then it emails foswiki-svn with the result :P
[02:04]
SvenDowideitSvenDowideit would hug pharvey for that [02:05]
gac410Ah.. That would be cool [02:05]
pharvey* F: Sadness::test_is_broken - 0123deadbeef Foswikirev:14444 by PaulHarvey 2013-02-10 [02:05]
FoswikiBothttp://trac.foswiki.org/changeset/14444 [ Changeset 14444 – Foswiki ] [02:05]
pharveyetc. [02:05]
SvenDowideitso, does pharvey <3 his x230? [02:13]
pharveyVBox runs very, very quickly. And I don't have my SSD in it yet..
still annoying having such a vertically squishy screen
[02:13]
SvenDowideitSvenDowideit pushes some jealousy pharvey's way
and goes to check the t420s auctions
i didn't mind the vertical squish while i had the x230
[02:14]
pharveyI will definitely make my next purchase slightly bigger, I think, or one that doesn't waste as much bezel space [02:14]
SvenDowideitbu that time, things will have changed lots [02:15]
pharveyOTOH I am not missing the HD+ resolution of the Dell XPS12, I think. 1366x768 is already a pretty high DPI [02:15]
SvenDowideitunless you're expecting to flip it next year
y, it is
[02:15]
pharveymmm I shall keep it at least 2 years I think [02:15]
SvenDowideittoo high for my old-y-world-y eyes
by then intel will have kicked the pc notebook market into retina
as they've been sending warning signs all last year
[02:16]
pharveyI'd like the higher res, but not enough to actually buy a dell :) [02:17]
SvenDowideitgiggle [02:17]
pharveyactually the *main* gripe I have, after the squishy screen, is that I still feel lost on the new keyboard. It's nice to type on, but there's no features for me to feel my way around when hitting F-keys
but everything else about it is just about perfect
[02:17]
SvenDowideity, i also had a weird time with the lack of tactile cues [02:18]
pharveyit's harder because they moved the screen brightness, thinklight Fn+Fnn shortcuts around [02:18]
SvenDowideiti'm used to feeling the gap beside the delete and things [02:18]
pharveyso half the time I go to dim my screen and actually put it into hibernate [02:18]
SvenDowideitoutch :)
thats just an incompetence thing tho, so :)
[02:19]
pharveySo I disabled hibernate, it sleeps instead now :P
lol
there used to be gap between F5 and F6 you could feel for on the x61, I think
also, Lenovo lost my $1 USB DVD burner
or at least TNT did
[02:19]
SvenDowideitwow, what, er, modern pain [02:20]
pharveyfirstworldproblems [02:20]
SvenDowideitfun :) [02:25]
......................... (idle for 2h2mn)
oh noes, rdf is what i want :(
SvenDowideit regrets the rabbit-whole trip and thinks next time he'll pack a knife
[04:27]
http://xkcd.com/1172/
gac410, how perfect
[04:36]
lwhalenso, I'm trying to organize a wiki for an IT consulting company. I've created a Web called "Clients", and I'm putting new topics for each of the company's clients
under that web
but I'm finding that I've got a lot of information, such as "Contacts" or a "Network Map" that need to be different per-client, but they'd be called the same
Under the "FooCorp" topic, there'd be "FooCorp NetworkMap" for instance. But if I try to create "BazCorp NetworkMap", the "NetworkMap" topic has already been created
do I need to do sub-topics for each of these, or am I thinking too hard?
[04:37]
SvenDowideitno, you're not thinking too hard :)
if there are lots of these
then I make a subweb per client
if there are several
[04:40]
gac410SvenDowideit: My laptop keeps me warm holding down the spacebar ... especially when it's on my lap :) [04:40]
SvenDowideitthen i call them things like FooCorpNetworkMap
gac410, yeah, mine too!
need to upgrade!
[04:40]
lwhalenthere would hopefully be lots of these :-)
I need about five right now
[04:41]
SvenDowideiti mean lots of subtopics
rather than lots of clients
[04:42]
lwhalenahhh [04:42]
SvenDowideitbut even so - yes :)
don't forget that you can move them when things get big
[04:42]
lwhalenwell, there would need to be 'ContactInfo', 'NetworkMap', 'VendorInformation', 'DeploymentList', etc [04:42]
SvenDowideitSvenDowideit points out that 'etc' is not informative here :p [04:43]
lwhalenhehe, fair enough :-) [04:43]
SvenDowideitand notes that he need to go shooping so his kids don't starve tomorrow [04:43]
lwhalenso, in my "Clients" web, I should create a subweb per-client? [04:43]
SvenDowideityeah - most likley [04:44]
lwhaleninstead of a "Topic" with "sub-topics"? [04:44]
gac410Subweb is just a directory, so you end up with a directory per client. And you could use a _Template web to have a collection of standard client topics. [04:44]
lwhalenwill I be able to make an auto-populating index? [04:44]
SvenDowideityes [04:44]
lwhalenso when folks browse to the Client web... sweet [04:44]
SvenDowideitala the _Template thing gac410 mentions
SvenDowideit runs :/
[04:44]
gac410bye SvenDowideit [04:44]
lwhalenalright, so I've got this Client/FooCorp subweb
and I've got all my topics created for it - ProjectsList, ContactInfo, DisasterRecovery, HardwareList, NetworkInfo, VendorInfo
how do I create that auto-populating index, preferably just of topics under WebHome?
[04:55]
gac410The %SEARCH% macro is the magic for dynamic pages.
%TOPICLIST% lists all the topics in a web.
[04:57]
lwhalenooOOoooo
is there a way to list all topics EXCEPT the web-ones?
WebChanges, WebCreateNewTopic, etc?
[04:59]
gac410excludetopic="Web*"
See Foswiki:System.VarSEARCH
[05:00]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/System.VarSEARCH [ VarSEARCH ] [05:00]
lwhalenyou, sir, rock my stripey socks [05:00]
gac410Hm. TOPICLIST doesn't have the exclude, but SEARCH does.
You can also do forms based applications. The Foswiki Tasks web is an example. Other than individual ItemNNNN topics, most pages are %SEARCH results.
Although for a simple templated web like that with a set of common topics, you could just use a WebHome template topic that lists the key index topics.
Then ProjectList might be a search for all Project* topics or Topics with a ProjectForm attached, several ways to proceed here.
[05:00]
lwhalenwhat's the difference between a "topic name" and a "web name"? [05:05]
gac410A Topic is a single file on disk. A web is a collection of topic files. in the foswiki store, a web is a directory
So foswiki/data/Web/Subweb/Topic.txt
Look around in your data directory. It's just a file system structure.
Generally a SEARCH can be bounded by a Web. (searching within a single directory) or can be across webs.
[05:06]
lwhalenok, this search macro is COOL AS HELL
pardon my potty-mouth
[05:09]
gac410:) [05:09]
***gac410 has left [05:11]
..... (idle for 22mn)
lwhalenhrm, I am not making the best use of this Search macro
I can't seem to get any of the children topics I've created to show up
[05:33]
pharveylwhalen: what is the %SEARCH expression you've tried so far [05:36]
lwhalen%SEARCH{search="*" nonoise="on" recurse="on" topic="*" web="Clients"}%
and all its returning are all the WebLeftNav, WebChanges, WebNotify, etc, stuff
I've got topics under WebHome that I'd like displayed
[05:36]
pharveyit's been a while but it should be something like %SEARCH{"parent.name='WebHome'" type="query" nonoise="on" web="Clients"}% [05:38]
lwhalenbut it's a subweb
would "web="Clients.FooCorp"" be valid?
[05:39]
pharveyOnly if Clients.FooCorp is a web [05:40]
lwhalenit is
woooooot
now, if I wanted to templatize this
because there's going to be an arbitrary number of client sub-webs
is there a way to make web= refer to the current subweb?
[05:40]
pharveyI'd whitespace it as http://pastebin.com/ywgTjKGQ btw - many people forget %MACROs can be multiline
you can have web="%WEB%", sure
if you're writing this macro into a TopicViewTemplate you'd better use web="%BASEWEB%" though
[05:41]
lwhalenI haven't even touched templates yet
I'm a confluence refugee, and just got this thing up and running over the weekend :)
[05:43]
pharveyI'm a FW admin in an Confluence organization. We use Confluence for some occasions, Foswiki for others :)
and drupal, rails, etc. wherever it fits.
[05:43]
lwhalenhehe fair enough [05:44]
pharveyI hope we have a good topic explaining the difference between WEB vs BASEWEB but essentially %WEB% expands to whatever topic the %WEB% expression is stored in
%BASEWEB% is always the topic being viewed
[05:44]
lwhalenahhhh ok [05:45]
pharveyoften these are the same as each other but they become different if you're INCLUDing or doing ViewTemplate stuff [05:45]
lwhalenso if I do the macro as %WEB%, originally for Clients/FooCorp
when I go create Clients/BazCorp %WEB% will still be pointing to Clients/FooCorp
[05:45]
pharveysorry, I don't have enough understanding from you to answer confidently [05:46]
lwhalenno worries. Once I get to the templating stage I'm sure I'll be back in here :-) [05:47]
SvenDowideitSvenDowideit jumps for joy [05:47]
pharveydepends on where WEB is written - if it's on a dashboard topic like "Clients.ShowChildrenHelperTopic" then %WEB% as used in that particular topic will always be Clients
gotta run though, my lift is here
good luck :)
[05:47]
lwhalenlater mang [05:47]
SvenDowideit:) [05:47]
lwhalenhowdy Sven!
hey, you were the guy helping me out with the HomePagePlugin the other night?
[05:47]
SvenDowideitdon't tell anyone! [05:48]
lwhalen:-)
I still think I'm doing it wrong
[05:49]
SvenDowideitthen do it right dammit! [05:49]
lwhalenI want my users to automatically go to the MyCorp web on login, but they keep getting shunted to Main
or at least, my preexisting user does. I haven't created new users to try it with them
[05:49]
SvenDowideitMain.WebHome? or Main.what topic? [05:50]
lwhalenMain.WebHome [05:50]
SvenDowideithome page plugin really defaults to a particular topic [05:50]
lwhalenbut I want them to go to MyCorp.WebHome [05:50]
SvenDowideitso in configure, what setting did you set to what value? [05:50]
lwhalenin configure, I set {HomePagePlugin}{SiteDefaultTopic} to "MyCorp.WebHome", and I UNCHECKED GoToHomePageOnLogin [05:51]
SvenDowideitah, ok, ah, y, that will be interesting
Home Page plugin would goto MyCorpWebHome if you goto a url that doesn't specify a web/topic
ie http://foswiki.org/bin/view
and the on log only happens if you check GoToHomePageOnLogin
and even then, it might be at the mercy of the skin author - i'm not sure
[05:52]
lwhalenwell, the effect I want is for folks who go to wiki.mycorp.com to be shunted to wiki.mycorp.com/MyCorp/WebHome
instead of wiki.mycorp.com/Main/WebHome
would that happen if I set SiteDefaultTopic to "http://wiki.mycorp.com/MyCorp/WebHome"?
[05:54]
SvenDowideitno
if you set SiteDefaultTopic == MyCorp.WebHome
then when they goto http://wiki.mycorp.com it should show MyCorp.WebHome
[05:55]
lwhalenit definitely does not do that
it goes to Main.WebHome
[05:56]
SvenDowideitand when they hit login from there, foswiki (nothing to do with Home page plugin) should goto where it came from
however
[05:56]
lwhalenwell
I've got my wiki set so that you can't view anything unless you log in
[05:56]
SvenDowideitif your web server is set up to direct http://wiki.mycorp.com to http://mycorp.com/bin/view/Main
then Home page plugin doesn't get a look in
ah, ok, that might be a wrinkel - tho i'm not sure
[05:57]
lwhalenhrmmm, I don't think I've got apache set to do a redirect. I did the bog-standard install, but let me check my ReWrites [05:57]
SvenDowideitdamn, i've forgotten the story of 'bog-standard'
other than its ww1 / ww2 :(
SvenDowideit has forgotten so very many things
wow, and trying to figure out how to add a disk and partition it under windows 8 is er, soooo um, nope still havn't found it
[06:00]
lwhalenhere's my apache conf: http://pastebin.com/7PZcEqPs
I don't see any rewrites that SHOULD affect it, but...
the only thing that MIGHT be doing it is:
Alias / "/var/www/wiki/bin/view/"
RewriteRule ^/+bin/+view/+(.*) /$1 [L,NE,R]
RewriteRule ^/+bin/+view$ / [L,NE,R]
[06:02]
SvenDowideitnope, your bog looks good to me [06:03]
lwhalendo I need to set anything for the user? [06:04]
SvenDowideitimo no
but its been a while since i touched it
[06:04]
lwhalenhrm, is there a log or something I can look at to see what it might be doing? [06:08]
SvenDowideitnot that i can think of no [06:10]
lwhaleneh, actually, don't worry about it. At this point, I think I should just email the developer [06:10]
SvenDowideitSvenDowideit says nothing [06:10]
lwhalen...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
well then, to use another expression, I think the buck stops here :-)
[06:10]
SvenDowideitthis buck runs for the hills :p [06:11]
lwhalenand here I thought you were Just Another User(tm) who just happened to be familiar with the plugin [06:11]
SvenDowideitlalalalala [06:11]
lwhalenoh now this is interesting
could I perhaps use the Expert setting
[06:12]
SvenDowideityou could, but um, that might make the 'its not working' even more 'its not working' [06:12]
lwhalenand define a hostname-per-web such that "http://wiki.mycorp.com" => "MyCorp.WebHome""
ahh ok
[06:13]
SvenDowideithey don't take my word for it, i'm just as in the dark as you are [06:14]
lwhalenwell, at this point it certainly can't break things any harder than they've been broken (which is to say... not at all) [06:14]
SvenDowideitq1 - did you enable the plugin?
q2 - are you sure?
[06:14]
lwhalenq1 - yes; q2 - no [06:14]
SvenDowideitq3 - (the more useful one) what does the System.InstalledPlugins topic tell you about HomePagePlugin [06:14]
lwhalenthis is my first enabled foswiki plugin [06:14]
SvenDowideitq4 - what? its almost decembler!
turns out i don't have the code here, bizzare
[06:14]
lwhalenoh goody, it IS enabled:
HomePagePlugin (1.2.0, $Rev: 15292 (2012-08-12) $): Allow User specified home pages - on login
[06:15]
SvenDowideitexcellent, thats the worst problem out of the way [06:15]
lwhalenmuch profanity [06:17]
SvenDowideiter, i have a small feeling [06:17]
lwhalenno love - same behavior [06:17]
SvenDowideitthat the author has er, fogotten to use the old code path [06:17]
lwhalenthat sounds... mildly not-good?
how would one assist the author in confirming or denying that one?
[06:18]
SvenDowideitwriting unit tests :p [06:18]
lwhalenI was told there would be no math... [06:19]
SvenDowideitgiven that the author appears to lack motivation
i might look into it tonite
[06:19]
lwhalenhehe fair enough :) [06:19]
SvenDowideitwhen i'm nearer a comuter that has foswiki
i'm reading the code direct from foswiki's svn repo
and it looks like convoluted pig swill
[06:19]
lwhalenaccording to your (rather impressive) Foswiki profile, you're half a world away so unfortunately I can't buy you a beer at the moment [06:20]
SvenDowideitthank god!
do you know what a beer would do?
i'd have to have nice lie down
and then a good sleep!
[06:20]
lwhalenincrease your motivation 10fold, decrease your code quality 10,000-fold?
that's what it does to me, anyway
[06:20]
SvenDowideitnope, much worse [06:20]
lwhalen"because having my every pore soaking in tasty, tasty booze is the PERFECT time to be at the root-prompt!" [06:21]
SvenDowideitSvenDowideit sniggers at the idea :) [06:21]
lwhalenanyway, speaking of a nice lie-down, it's about that time for me [06:22]
SvenDowideiti still can't see why the simple setup doesn't work for you tho [06:22]
lwhalen2AM EST... wake up for work at 11AM EST...
hehe, me neither
[06:22]
SvenDowideitit looks more like _if_ HomePage is set on the user's topic
then things are probably crap
but otherwise, it looks ok
so me points fingers, shakes bones and gives up :)
[06:22]
lwhalenwell [06:23]
SvenDowideitemail me your setup
some time
[06:23]
lwhalenHomePage *is* set on my user [06:23]
SvenDowideitoh, ok, there's your problem then :) [06:23]
lwhalenbut I didn't think that affected anything other than my UserForm
if this works...
[06:23]
SvenDowideitcorrect, that would be what i think the code reads like its written by a drunk idiot [06:24]
lwhalenaaaaaand no love, same behavior
let me try with a fresh user...
(there are some benefits to being root...)
[06:24]
SvenDowideity, blame, fear, loathing
and um, fire!
wow
windows8 keeps telling me what i shoudl do
'do not turn off your computer' is the most common screen
makes me think i'm back in kindergarten
[06:25]
lwhalenaaaand no love with the fresh user, with no HomePage set [06:27]
SvenDowideitwhat if you tick that checkbox?
tbh, i think you need to shutdown your server, re-seat your ram and probably get a new heat sink
y, i'm sure its your heatsink
[06:27]
lwhalenwell
slap mah 'fro and call me Susan
works like a champ
[06:28]
SvenDowideitmumble [06:28]
lwhalenHAHAHA
and now my regular user works too
wtf
[06:28]
SvenDowideitso basically, the 'on-login' needs the HomePage setting
how depressing
[06:28]
lwhalenhey Mr. Developer, I think I may have found a bug... [06:29]
SvenDowideiti think so too, but i'm not sure we can fix it [06:29]
lwhalencertainly not tonight [06:29]
SvenDowideitsnap :)
it'll take at least a little dinner ;)
[06:29]
lwhalenlulz [06:29]
SvenDowideit5pm here [06:30]
lwhalenwhat can I send you to help debugging if/when your motivation returns? [06:30]
SvenDowideitand i'm so over waiting for windows8 to get tot he point where i can use it
come around to irc next week
:)
or tomorrow maybe
[06:30]
lwhalenaight, will do [06:30]
SvenDowideiti might be at my parents tomorrow
still, i have a pretty good idea how to cause it, so thats all good
and thus -thaknyou and goodnight :)
[06:30]
lwhalenhehe back atcha man!
many thanks!
[06:31]
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ChanServ sets mode: +o MichaelDaum [06:50]
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jastis anyone somewhat familiar with WysiwygPlugin's parsers? I get spurious whitespace on conversion from HTML to TML, e.g. "(<a href="...">...</a>)" turns into "( [[...][...])"
I went through the code and figured out it inserts a $WC::CHECKw before the generated TML link, and that is later converted to a non-breaking space
but I have no idea why it does that :)
[07:54]
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SvenDowideitjast its _possible_
that the space is to avoid links becoming broken
ie
this (IsNotLinked)
whereas iirc ( ThisIsLinked)
due to the insanity which be twikimarkupusingregexp
i would not cry if this insanity were weeded out and killed, but i imagine there are some that are relying on it
[09:33]
jastit's only for bracketed links [09:40]
SvenDowideitand? [09:40]
jastjust saying... not sure if it's relevant :) [09:40]
SvenDowideiti'm thinking that it might be - specifically because we try to share code wherever we can [09:41]
jastWysiwygPlugin does its own processing for everything [09:41]
SvenDowideitso <a href gets turned into both [[]] and WikiWord
and then (magically) it works it out
i'm guessing that <a href is turned into a [[][]] link, and then if both parts look the same, and is scripturl simple
is turned into a WikiWord
and so on
but y - i'm not looking at the code :)
[09:41]
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TilJ has left [13:03]
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foswiki_irc9Hi, i got an issue with my foswiki upgrade from 1.15 zo 1.17 i copied all the files into the installation and now it shows me the first web just fine but when i click on another web it says 404 not found [14:04]
gac410What OS, What Web Server? [14:05]
foswiki_irc9Windows Server
using apache
[14:06]
gac410by "copied all the files" you mean you copied the expanded foswiki-upgrade-1.1.7.zip into the installation? [14:07]
foswiki_irc9this is kidding me
im sitting here trying to solve this problem since 1 hour now
and now that i have wrote here i found the problem
sorry for that ;)
[14:07]
jasthappens fairly often. it's just the way things happen sometimes. :) [14:08]
gac410:) No problem. Sometimes just describing the issue (thinking out loud) makes the issue clear. [14:09]
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CDotjast: any chance of some docco in your SWP changes, saying what the new modules do? It's fairly obvious after a bit of head-scratching, but some up-front intro could have saved some follicles. [15:56]
jastyou mean code documentation? [15:57]
gac410Any spanish speakers around? http://foswiki.org/Blog/Crear_cuenta_en_foswiki
Google translate wasn't all that helpful to me, though it's probably not spam
[16:02]
Babarlooks like instructions on how to create a new blog post [16:05]
CDotI think it's a bug report - seems the only thing they can do is create a blog post.
But.... they say it's because "everything else is using plugins" - which makes no sense to me.
jast: yes, please
[16:13]
gac410I wonder if it's about our blog, or if they've installed the BlogAddOn / BlogPlugin [16:15]
CDotdunno. You could try answering them.... in Polish >:-) [16:16]
jastis there some kind of best practice for code docs in foswiki?
(something written down... if there isn't I'll figure it out myself)
[16:21]
gac410Yes, there are a few iirc [16:21]
jastgac410: I'd be happy to implement a fix for the &apos; issue but I don't know which markers would survive other parsing/conversion steps, so I'd need some input on that :)
(Item12388)
[16:22]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item12388 [ Item12388: HTML2TML relies on XML-specific =&apos;= entity ] [16:22]
gac410Looked like CDot had better input than me. I'm really clueless on the character set concerns. [16:22]
CDotit's not a character set concern so much as an entity conversion concern [16:23]
gac410jast: there is some stuff linked off of http://foswiki.org/Development/DevelopersBible regarding style and practices. May need to wander through a few topics. [16:24]
jastright, will do [16:24]
gac410See! I can't even describe the issue correctly. :D [16:24]
jastwell, the idea is we get rid of the entity conversions, and just temporarily replace them with special markers instead that nothing else will touch
as George commented, that's probably better than converting back and forth
[16:24]
CDotit's a balancing act. For example, if someone pastes a M$Word doc, all the quotes will occupy the high code point. Now, you can assume that they all must be "preserved", or you can down-point them to the ASCII equivalent
or you can replace with an entity
which is the correct approach depends on what the user is doing - and most of the time, they don't know themselves (or don't care about the issues)
[16:24]
gac410So one question, part of the issue is we claim HTML, but don't we generate XHTML 4 ? [16:25]
CDotno [16:25]
gac410And I suspect I'm not asking that right either [16:26]
jastit's only actually treated as XHTML by browsers if you deliver it with content-type application/xhtml+xml [16:26]
CDotwe abandoned strict XHTML some time ago. It's way too anal. [16:26]
jastand in that case it's _really_ strict, and browsers would probably just show an error [16:26]
gac410But the specific issue jast has encountered is we are using xhtml supported entities in html markup. So at least &apos; is wrong. [16:27]
CDotif TMCE is trying to generate strict XHTML, it's probably working too hard [16:27]
jastin any case, IE7/8 don't support XHTML and they don't support &apos;
and &apos; is technically invalid in plain HTML
[16:27]
CDotI don;t think we explicitly use &apos; anywhere. It's probably being generated by HTML::Entities (or the JS, if it's coming from TMCE)
so it may be a case of passing the right params to whtever is generating it
[16:28]
gac410It's explicit in the TML2HTML code [16:29]
CDotso it is. Tsk. [16:29]
gac410hence the bug :) [16:29]
CDotadded by someone called "MichaelTem". Who is that?
of michael tempest
hmmm. Wonder why he did that? Comment isn't clear.
He wrote: "This meant that I had to change the text to Unicode characters (not encoded as UTF-8) before decoding entities, which meant extra conversions, including a step to convert characters that cannot be represented in the site charset to entities."
ouch
CDot recommends reading svn log -r7854 HTML2TML.pm
[16:31]
jastthat's what the whole thing is about? I missed that part when reading the message the first time [16:35]
CDotyup [16:36]
jastuhh, why not just do it properly? ;)
I have certain doubts that this would work with, say, non-Western charsets
[16:36]
CDotirrelevant; this comes in via an XMLHttpRequest, which is always encoded in UTF8 [16:39]
jastdoes tinymce handle unencoded characters properly? [16:39]
CDotthis conversion generates a "munged UTF8" string, which is then pushed through a conversion to the site charset
at least, that's how I read the code
[16:39]
jastif it does, we can probably just get rid of all the madness [16:40]
CDotIIRC tinyme does as little as possible to characters; it works in unicode space (like all JS) so doesn't really have to worry [16:40]
jastyeah [16:41]
CDotthe problems occur when the UTF8-encoded request has to be converted to the local site charset
as I read the rest of the comment, the goal was to convert to named entities to "improve readability" of the TML. And indeed if you left a ' as an entity, you&x27;d have to put up with &x27;this sort of stuff&x27; all over the place
since there *is* no named entity for the high codepoint for ', there's no other choice.
[16:41]
jastIMO the converter shouldn't mess with entities
it's perfectly legal for TML text to contain literal 's, after all
[16:46]
CDotaccording to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_XML_and_HTML_character_entity_references &apos; is defined for HTML 4
jast: it has to, because of the problems with macros
actually, no, I take that back. IIRC I coded it originally to convert back to plain characters
Michael was obviously trying to fix some problem with that :-/
[16:47]
gac410CDot: that wikipedia ref. calls out apos; as an exception: Because of the special &apos; case mentioned above, only &quot;, &amp;, &lt;, and &gt; will work in all processing situations. [16:50]
jastnote that the table lists XHTML 1.0 as the standard for &apos; [16:51]
gac410For the purposes of TMCE would it be reasonable to generate that response as XHTML instead of HTML (Probably a dumb question :( ) [16:53]
jastIE7/8 will still display &apos; as "&apos;" in topics
(and everywhere else)
[16:54]
gac410So on save, we need to convert back. which is separate from generating markup to be edited by tmce. [16:55]
jastwell, I gotta go. I'll read any further conversation later. [16:55]
gac410Does tmce handle the &apos; correctly or does ie end up showing it as &apos; in the editor. [16:55]
CDotthis isn't really to do with conversion - character set is a bit irrelevant, except insofar as it limits the 'native' character range we can use [16:56]
gac410gac410 doesn't really understand all this, so any comments I make may be utterly absurd. [16:57]
CDotthe problem here is to do with the 'friendliness' of the TML. If you don't care - if you are happy storing topics in HTML - then there is no need for this conversion, as the numeric entity can be kept
but the TML would look horrible
[16:57]
gac410I suspect most would prefer that the TML be friendly. [16:58]
CDotexactly [16:58]
gac410So the character in the tml (') needs to be rendered as something that TMCE can edit. And then when saved, somehow be converted back to (') and avoid &apos; since IE can't handle it.
Is that the crux of the challenge?
[16:58]
CDotpretty much
I'm not quite sure why Michael felt he had to convert ' to &apos; in the first place; why didn't he just generate ' for both 39 and x27?
there's method in his madness, for sure, but I'm not sure what it is
[16:59]
gac410Ug, I had it backwards. The code is in html2tml, so indeed after edit, not before. [17:01]
CDotright
oooooohohhhhhhhh...... I think I see
[17:01]
gac410So just converting the 39 and 27 back to ' might be reasonable? [17:02]
CDotyes, it might
what I don't understand is why HTML::Entities::_decode_entities is not converting &apos; back to ' - it's a named entity, it ought to handle it
maybe that's the exception because it's missing from HTML
hmmmm. Someone needs to poke code.
[17:03]
gac410I don't think it was included in the WC:safe_entities()
I was looking at it a bit a few days ago.
This code is horrible to follow. WC::safe... is actually defined in Convert.pm, and then monkey patched?
I have to run out ... back later sorry
[17:05]
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CDotCDot is tearing his hair out trying to get IE to resolve hosts listed in lmhosts. For goodness sakes, it's M$ own bloody protocol! [17:34]
success! All I had to do was whine here, and the problem magically resolved itself :-) [17:43]
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gac410:) I would have suggested power cycle. [18:12]
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CDotgac410: I just added project honeypot to AWSP [18:32]
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gac410Oh... cool [19:39]
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foswiki_irc5hi
could anyone help me with extending standard user form with picture?
i tried to follow guidance for PersonalInfoAddon - but it do replaces my own user form with his one
and this is not what I am waiting from it :(
[20:04]
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could I have somу help, please??? [20:22]
gac410foswiki_irc5: I suggested the PersonalInfoAddOn on your support question. But I don't really know how else to do it. [20:23]
foswiki_irc5yes, I installed it and it works by replacing my form
but what I actually want - is to take just picture from PersonalInfo addon and use it
and her I am bumping my head against the wall and could not invent anything :(
[20:24]
gac410The PersonalInfoExampleUserForm I think is meant to be an example to help you tailor the default UserForm
The picture information is stored in the form attached to the user topic.
[20:32]
foswiki_irc4Hello. I remake a fresh install at www.perl.blog.br but I'm having somo issues when users try to register. [20:45]
gac410One issue .. .your site is misconfigured. It gives an internal server error trying to serve the css / javascript files. http://www.perl.blog.br/pub/System/ProjectLogos/favicon.ico [20:47]
foswiki_irc4you mean the apache configs are wrong? [20:49]
gac410I don't know. Either apache configs, or foswiki config, or file system directory permissions. You should be able to retrieve the pub files directly
Probably some combination.
[20:49]
foswiki_irc4pubs permissions needs to be rw-r-r? [20:50]
gac410Yes, and readable by apache. Web server in same group as the files. [20:51]
Babarthose are files, right? [20:51]
foswiki_irc4right [20:51]
gac410Ah...right. directories need 755, rwx rx rx [20:51]
foswiki_irc4yes, just as they are.
well, I'll talk to my ISP again, I was getting same issue at cgi-bin directory.
Good Carnival to you.
[20:53]
Babarright. Mardi gras. tłuczy czwartek [21:03]
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foswiki_irc4fellows, a new foswiki install looks like this: www.perl.blog.br? [21:40]
gac410That looks correct
You won't be able to register users... email is not configured. And you really ought to protect configure!!
[21:41]
foswiki_irc4thanks for the tips. [21:43]
gac410So in configure, email tab, Mail General tab, be sure to set an email address for the admin. Save config and then configure, email, Email Test tab, test that you can send a message
Also, you need to fix the shorter url configuration
bin/configure General path settings, setting for {ScriptUrlPaths}{view} should be empty, remove the $Foswiki::cfg{ScriptUrlPath}/view$Foswiki::cfg{ScriptSuffix}
[21:44]
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TilJHi again. I got my test-case for 2-factor auth & SSL on apache working. Now I'm trying to install foswiki to use it (which should be automatic with apache auth enabled) and oddly when I try to view /foswiki, I get the text but not the template or graphics
If I manual try to view a missing image, such as foswiki/pub/System/DocumentGraphics/notify.png, I get an access denied error page that also has no template or graphics
[23:07]
gac410Sounds like apache configuration issue. [23:08]
TilJPossibly related, each page load takes a long time, almost like something is timing out [23:09]
gac410right. If the pub directory is not working, you will get that symptom. [23:09]
TilJSince the text itself is loading, it must be working to some extent
I used the apache generator, but I'll check out anything related to /foswiki/pub in my foswiki.conf
[23:09]
gac410So the text loads when a foswiki script serves it using cgi. The pub is typically served directly by apache. [23:10]
TilJThat makes sense [23:10]
gac410So your /bin/.. script directory is getting authorized. Need to look at the apache error log if you have access, to see what might be happening when you go after the /pub/ resources. [23:11]
TilJWould me using SSL affect this? If it tries serve from HTTP (port 80), there's nothing listening there and it'll time out
apache error log shows no errors, but that would make sense if the requests were going to port 80 instead of 443
[23:12]
gac410Ah... make sure that your pub references also use https. Can you access the /pub/... path using https://
what version of foswiki?
[23:12]
TilJWhatever the newest version in the freebsd ports tree is. One sec, I'll check.
Foswiki-1.1.5, Tue, 10 Apr 2012, build 14595, Plugin API version 2.2
[23:13]
gac410hm. that's a bit old. I'm not sure who maintains the ports. [23:14]
TilJWhere can I check for pub references/rewriting/etc in a standard foswiki.conf from teh apache configurator? I.e., what am I looking for? [23:14]
gac410I'm trying to remember if there is an issue with https://
Hm. I don't think /pub/ normally gets rewritten unless you checked the checkbox to protect pub resources using viewfile.
[23:14]
TilJneither 80 nor 443 exist in foswiki.conf for me [23:16]
gac410In your LocalSite.cfg, is $Foswiki::cfg{DefaultUrlHost} = set to the https:// url?
Right, normally foswiki.conf doesnt set the server port.
[23:16]
TilJThat's weird. That var had https://<my IP>. I changed it to my FQDN.
Restarted Apache, no change.
[23:18]
gac410If you manually enter a https url for a file does it work? http://foswiki.org/pub/System/ProjectLogos/foswiki-badge.gif for example
but crafted for your site
[23:22]
TilJhttps://itoteam.seekingfire.com/pub/System/ProjectLogos/foswiki-badge.gif <-- yup
(won't work for users that aren't hitting it via 2-factor auth though, Apache restricts that)
[23:24]
gac410Okay. So next question, Check your page source, What's in the base url. ... hang on. [23:25]
TilJBut https://itoteam.seekingfire.com/foswiki/bin/view/System/InstallationGuidePart2 gets me Access Denied: The "(Missing or illegal web)" web does not exist, etc [23:25]
gac410Ah.... Where did the foswiki come from?
LocalSite.cfg. the PubUrlPath
[23:25]
TilJchecking
$Foswiki::cfg{PubUrlPath} = '/foswiki/pub';
[23:27]
gac410Ah... That's the issue. Should be Foswiki::cfg{PubUrlPath} = '/pub'; [23:28]
TilJHey, there we go!
Thanks muchly :-)
[23:28]
gac410Great! Glad to help. Be sure to apply the patch for the CVE! [23:29]
TilJThere's still a signification delay on each page loading (say, three counts of "one thousand"). I'm on basic CGI, is that likely why?
Is the patch for the CVE necessary if it's not exposed until after Apache auth has succeeded?
[23:29]
gac410I guess it depends on how well you trust the users. Anyone who can edit, can cause an exposure.
Install PatchFoswikiContrib, and http://foswiki.org/Extensions/PatchItem12285Contrib
http://foswiki.org/Extensions/PatchFoswikiContrib
[23:30]
TilJReading ... [23:32]
gac410A crafted %MAKETEXT macro can execute any arbitrary command on the server under the cgi user.
PatchFoswikiContrib also resolves some issues with a version numbering change that will break configure if new extensions installed on an old apache. Though it requires the Cpan module "version" 0.77 or newer.
er . old foswiki, not apache. sorry
Hm... our download page doesn't even list the Freebsd ports. I wonder where that came from.
[23:32]
TilJAccording to http://www.freshports.org/www/foswiki/, the port was added to the ports tree by skv@FreeBSD.org
Installing those patches now
Last commit to the port was on Dec 16, so it seems to still get a bit of attention
Ah, but that was the portmgr just doing general cleanup/maintenance
1.1.5 was committed 21 May 2012 (after named port maintainer timed-out) by rm@FreeBSD.org from a port patch submitted by Kevin Oberman <rkoberman at gmail dot com>
So maybe it hasn't had much attention since last May
[23:37]

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