#foswiki 2013-03-20,Wed

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WhoWhatWhen
***ChanServ sets mode: +o pharvey [02:54]
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SvenDowideityay - guess who forgot to set a UserAgent and fell into peters ancient 403 null useragents trick [03:48]
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SvenDowideitwowo
.net's WebClient follows a redirect and then reveals your password
when i do something as simple as
POST to http://dowideit.org
which is set to redirect to /bin/view
it then re-requests - but this time with GET, and manages to still put the form elements that were posted before - which then turn up in plain text in the logs
(ok, not actually on that domain, but you get the idea)
[05:51]
SvenDowideit hammers f.o a littl [06:05]
aha. and of course, I forgot - there's no System web in ancient land
and to make life that much 'simpler' web bot found is not a 404, nor a 401 or 403
its a 302 to a helpful message
oh. us too :/
[06:14]
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***ChanServ sets mode: +o pharvey
ChanServ sets mode: +o pharvey
[07:50]
ChanServ sets mode: +o MichaelDaum [08:05]
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ChanServ sets mode: +o pharvey [08:46]
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MichaelDaumcool the blog is moved
but images are missing: http://blog.foswiki.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/foswiki-helmet.jpeg
[09:12]
jastyeah, Sven posted to the list about that [09:13]
MichaelDaumthere are a couple of things on that site that need fixing of course
two search boxes for one
[09:14]
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jastyeah, I think theme stuff is on the todo list, too [09:35]
MichaelDaumon which machine is it running now?
same as f.o?
[09:47]
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FloPriMichaelDaum: I get that error: Uncaught TypeError: Object [object Object] has no method 'hoverIntent' , but i have following config {JQueryPlugin}{DefaultPlugins} = hoverintent [10:08]
MichaelDaumit is missing quotes: ... = "hoverintent"; [10:09]
FloPriMichaelDaum: the complite line from LocaleSite.cfg is $Foswiki::cfg{JQueryPlugin}{DefaultPlugins} = 'hoverintent'; [10:10]
MichaelDaumdid you restart your apache server? [10:11]
FloPriMichaelDaum: no Sir, my fault :-( [10:12]
MichaelDaum;) [10:13]
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interesting discussion: when would you still need a foswiki once you've got sharepoint or jive?
any feedback?
[11:20]
SvenDowideiti don't know what jive provides
but no, when you have sharepoint, you have a prose wiki
if you want an adhoc situational app development env with semi-structured data, then sharepoint is difficult
exchange server 5.5 was awesome for that
but they took exchange forms out
[11:32]
MichaelDaummatches the discussion I had over here
wiki apps
twisties
tabs
n stuff
[11:43]
SvenDowideittwisties and tabs sharepoint can do
well, with help
[11:44]
MichaelDaumsure tis a web app in the end [11:44]
SvenDowideitoh, and sharepoint's idea of history is a tad dodgey [11:45]
MichaelDaumbut not inside word [11:45]
SvenDowideitmmm, ok, inside word is a scary place [11:46]
MichaelDaumisn't editing in a sharepoint "wiki" done via word? [11:48]
SvenDowideitno
it can be, but it is often down via the browser
and it makes a mess of the wiki when you do use word
[11:49]
MichaelDaumgood good [11:55]
SvenDowideitms wiki is basically wysiwyg html
plus one tag
[[link]]
unless you buy an addon thing
[11:55]
MichaelDaumjive meething sharepoint is interesting in so far as both have a significant feature overlap when it comes to social features in the enterprise [11:56]
SvenDowideitjive reads like vapid marketing
but i know nothing about it
sharepoint i know more - and its a heck of a lot better than its reputed to be
[11:56]
MichaelDaumjive is about to come up with a new sharepoint connector for the latest sharepoint edition which will allow to transport documents and stream events [11:57]
SvenDowideitand much more capable than most people realise [11:57]
MichaelDaumboth jive and sharepoint do have activity streams ... so there's a problem for companies when using both
btw jive is considered the leader in the gartner's magic quadrant closest matching foswiki
[11:58]
SvenDowideitimo using more than one collab tool means the organisation probably doesn't use either well
SvenDowideit regularly sees fun gartner stuff
[11:59]
MichaelDaumnot true [11:59]
SvenDowideitincluding how to get yourself into the better quadrant :) [11:59]
MichaelDaumsharepoint is foremost a dms [11:59]
SvenDowideitno, its not really [11:59]
MichaelDaumwhile jive is a social intranet and so on [11:59]
SvenDowideitsharepoint is foremost a semistructured data store with fast scalable indexer
the user UI is taked on - and is terrible for a reason
[12:00]
MichaelDaumnow that more yammer stuff enters sharepoint, people using jive already have probs [12:01]
SvenDowideity, not surprising
MS moves very well to cover other companies offerings
without needing to do so well
[12:02]
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ColasI use a separate site to provide comments on my wiki site, to keep wiki account for admins / authors (i.e.... just me :-) but these discus-like systems have their issues. So I was toying with the idea of using wordpress as a comment engine (with lots of spam-handling goodies) plugged to foswiki
a googling told me that such an extension exists for wikimedia
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:WordPress_Comments
"when I have time" (famous last words) I will see how to adapt this to foswiki
[13:10]
FloPriWhen i want to add something in the <head> of every wiki site, which is the best way to do that? [13:15]
ColasYou mean, as a webmaster (html / wiki code), or as a developer of a plugin (perl code)? [13:17]
FloPrias a webmaster, just for my wiki [13:17]
ColasThe best way is to define custom skins by just derving an existing one
doc is at: http://foswiki.org/System/SkinTemplates
[13:18]
FloPriColas: thx [13:19]
Colasbasicall you will make a "flopri" skin
i.e., create a file templates/view.flopri.tmpl
including the default skin (pattern), via a: %TMPL:INCLUDE{"view"}%
and then redefining the bits you want
actually, not templates/view.flopri.tmpl but XXX.flopri.tmpl, where XXX contains the part you want to redefine
Understanding how the templates syetme work need a bit of effort, but it is well worth it, you will then be able to do plenty of cool things
[13:20]
***ChanServ sets mode: +o gac410 [13:27]
MichaelDaumColas, for a external site services like Disqus are easy to add
you'll need an appkey and then add some js to your skin templates. done.
[13:37]
ColasYes, I am using js-kit for years, which is similar
but depending on an external site is not totally satisfying
[13:38]
MichaelDaumthe only drawback is that your site's search won't find any hit in a comment [13:38]
Colasthis is actually a benefit
no worry about being banned by google for a spam in a comment
[13:38]
MichaelDaumthere's a guy who did a cpan module for disqus to have the comment system added to the page serverside.
that'll allow you to index that stuff, presumably
[13:39]
Colasmmm, cool. [13:40]
jastthe spam handling goodies in wordpress are not all that effective
they catch the obvious stuff, of course, but these days quite a lot of spam appears to be manually posted, probably via mturk and such
[13:51]
Colaswell, it is the deletion of spam in wikis that can be problematic, it is more difficult (not impossible) to revert all chnages by an user [13:52]
gac410I also wonder about the moinmoin regex list we use. It's huge, but the only thing I've seen it block are legitimate .html links and bit.ly shortning. [13:52]
Colasone-click-delete-all-the-posts-of-an =-user is more confortable
Basically I would have liked and open source discus engine to add to my site :-)
[13:52]
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PeterSvendsenHi all, I have a funny problem.. when I try to delete a attachment I press manage and from there press Delete...and from there I agian press Delete....then I get the following message "Access Denied Attention "Trash.TrashAttachment" topic does not exist You are trying to perform an action on a topic that does not exist (action 'rename'). "
so.. how can I now delete my attachment?!
[18:40]
gac410Ah... Someone deleted the default TrashAttachment topic. You need an admin to recreate it as an empty topic in the Trash web. [18:42]
PeterSvendsenok I'll try thx :) [18:46]
Another hopefully short question... I have a viewtemplate that I have used for a specific form.... now I would like to use the same viewtemplate or a copy of this to another form... but can not find the process to do this....any hints? [18:52]
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btiffinI kinda got burned on Dreamhost, blindly upgraded from 1.4 to 1.5 and there was a Perl dependency (version checks) that Dreamhost was behind on, so ended up nuking the install and going back to 1.4. I'll try again after more careful reading someday soon, but now I have a question about SourceForge Project Web space. How much grief can I expect when trying to install Foswiki within the confines of a SourceForge project web space? [19:08]
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jastbtiffin: in a pinch, you can always install newer CPAN modules yourself
though there is no 1.4 and 1.5... we have 1.1.4 and 1.1.5, and the version changes were in 1.1.6 :)
[19:28]
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btiffinYeah, sorry I skipped the 1. Umm, can I CPAN install on SourceForge? Excuse as I haven't Read all The Fine Manual yet, as I prefer asking friendly humans first, in case there is pre battled wisdoms to be had. [19:51]
jastwellll... I don't actually know SourceForge's hosting very well... it's been ages since I last went there
but simple, pure perl modules, you can simply upload manually yourself
in those cases it just comes down to uploading the .pm files to an appropriate place
Foswiki ships a few CPAN modules itself and uses them if the system doesn't provide them, at lib/CPAN below the Foswiki root dir (IIRC)
lib/CPAN/lib, actually
[19:51]
btiffinCool, good 'going in' ammo. Thanks jast. I assume 1.1.8 is the way to go today? I've not read up since 1.1.5 [19:57]
jastyeah, be sure to read the upgrade instructions though
there are still some issues in 1.1.8, but less than in the previous versions (I believe) :)
[19:57]
btiffinThis will be a new install, for the OpenCOBOL project. We abandoned a 10 year old XOOP install due to robot spam. Moved things to the forge, and now I'd like to rebuild the actual project web site using Foswiki. [19:58]
gac410You can also tell foswiki to "prefer" the cpan modules we ship. That would allow you to override the locally installed "version" [19:59]
btiffinOh, thanks. Maybe I'll start with .7 then jast. gac410. And thanks for that news, good ammo for the next attempt at upgrading on Dreamhost then [20:00]
jast.7 offers no advantages over .8 that I'm aware of [20:00]
gac410The only 1.1.8 issue I know of is the use of "defined @array" which breaks on very recent perl (5.16) [20:01]
btiffinI have some reading to do. Thanks everyone. Sorry jast I misread. I read it as 'less in the previous version' 1.1.8 is the read then. :-) [20:01]
jastah yeah, that wa sit
but hosters are extremely unlikely to have perl 5.16, so you should be fine
[20:01]
gac410y
Same with most packaged distributions. And if you roll your own perl, you can probably edit Net.pm and delete the word defined.
Though where I've seen perl 5.16 more frequently is on windows.
[20:01]
btiffinDH has perl -v at 5.10.0 [20:03]
jastno worries then [20:03]
***ChanServ sets mode: +o MichaelDaum [20:04]
btiffinOh I always worry. :-) Then make mistakes anyway, and luckily computers allow for do overs. [20:04]
jastyeah [20:04]
btiffinDH is a CentOS system. Would it be worth while looking to the .deb packages by umm, fosiki Sorry name is eluding me, Sven?
never mind. I see it advertises as needing root, so I'll not.
[20:08]
jastcentos, being redhat/fedora-based, doesn't support .deb packages anyway [20:11]
btiffinOh, then I'm wrong on the base system then. ;-) Bodes well. no yum, but dpkg was there. [20:13]
jastsome flavour of debian, then. lsb_release -a might tell you more. [20:14]
btiffinSorry to keep pestering. perl -Mversion -e 'print "$version::VERSION\n"' is showing 0.74 still. So what do I read up on pointing foswiki to prefer local modules?
Yep. Brain. I was recalling the SourceForge base, not DH. DH is Debian 5.
[20:14]
jastif you make foswiki use the stuff in lib/CPAN, that doesn't automatically translate to perl on the command line
though I don't know how to tell Foswiki to prefer lib/CPAN over the system locations in the first place
[20:15]
btiffinWell then, I'll have to up my Foswiki know-how game then. I'm willing to struggle to get the install, but as COBOL is the target project, I'd prefer to keep my Foswiki internals know-how to simple fanboy status. :-) [20:18]
jastmakes sense [20:18]
btiffinWhen I succeed (no if), I'll post a how-to somewhere.
Both for Dreamhost and the SourceForge. And thanks agian.
again
[20:21]
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foswiki_irc4Hello @all. I have 2 issues
at first natskin: I would like to create my own jazzynote variation
I have created TestVariation.css + TestVariation.uncompressed.css within /pub/System/JazzyNoteTheme
but Test isn't show as variation in my foswiki :(
My secound issue is the following point: Locale::Maketext: 1.13 installed. Version 1.23 optional.
I have installed foswiki 1.1.8
[20:25]
gac410That one I can help with [20:31]
foswiki_irc4perfekt :) [20:31]
gac410I have no idea why it's saying 1.23 optional. Just a side effect of our dependencies file. First, are you running with Internationalizatoin enabled? [20:32]
foswiki_irc4No
with, I get a red icon :)
currently it is yellow
[20:32]
gac410Okay. So without i18n, you can just ignore that. Locale::Maketext is not used.
It's just a point out that you might have a vulnerable version of Locale::Maketext installed, just in case you decide to enable I18N
[20:33]
foswiki_irc4But I would like to have another language [20:34]
gac410With 1.1.8, Foswiki has added checks to hopefully be secure, regardless of the version of locale::Maketext that is installed. [20:34]
foswiki_irc4and now, it is red :(
okay
but I remember, that for a few days, nothing was red
[20:34]
gac410So you can ignore the error, and hope we got the fix 100%, or upgrade Locale::Maketext and be more certain :) [20:35]
foswiki_irc4I think it was written, it is v1.23 isntalled
and suddently it was 1.13
[20:35]
gac4101.23 should not cause the red error. It has the security fixes. [20:35]
foswiki_irc4yes, when it was written 1.23 everything was ok and green [20:36]
gac410I don't know why your maketext would be downgraded. Are you using Debian system? [20:36]
foswiki_irc4so, do you know, which extension of foswiki or linux changed it to 1.1.3 or I am getting stupid?
no, ubuntu
[20:36]
jastclose enough [20:36]
foswiki_irc4so...ubuntu...debian... very similary :) [20:37]
gac410Locale::Maketext comes with the system. Foswiki shouldn't be changing it. [20:37]
foswiki_irc4ah okay...so maybe it was the system [20:37]
jastcheck the system version: dpkg -l liblocale-maketext-perl
if those are different, something weird is probably going on
(ignore the -whatever suffix)
[20:37]
foswiki_irc4no version?
hmm
[20:38]
jastif it doesn't say 'ii' in the first column, you don't actually have the system package installed [20:39]
foswiki_irc4no, it is written un
un liblocale-maketext-perl
[20:40]
jastthat means 'not installed'
so, something else is providing it
[20:41]
foswiki_irc4okay, do you know, how to install? [20:42]
jastaptitude install liblocale-maketext-perl [20:42]
foswiki_irc4it's removing so many pakages [20:43]
jastthat's not good [20:44]
foswiki_irc4Entferne linux-headers-2.6.32-31-server ... Entferne linux-headers-2.6.32-31 ...
removing from .32 to .42
[20:45]
jastuhh
oh, so it's forcing some additional upgrades on you
good grief
[20:45]
foswiki_irc4:)
but there is still v1.13
[20:46]
gac410note that debian folks patched 1.13 with the security fixes, but didn't change the version ...
So our code thinks it is vulnerable, and escapes backslash, so does the module, and you end up with duplicate \\ in the translated strings.
[20:46]
foswiki_irc4ok, so I realize, it is not from foswiki, it comes from the systems
bye
[20:47]
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