#foswiki 2013-04-19,Fri

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gac410hm... some unit tests become inconsistent on perl blead. Hash routines have changed to become unpredictable in order. [01:07]
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GithubBot[foswiki] FoswikiBot pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/mwpCMQ
foswiki/master d5633e0 GeorgeClark: Item12446: Better compatibility with version...
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item12446 [ Item12446: Dependency check is inconsistent with Perl version comparisons ] [01:23]
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AinsleyRamaihello
anyone here
[02:48]
gac410Hello AinsleyRamai [02:49]
AinsleyRamaiI need some help with wiki [02:49]
gac410What's your question. [02:49]
***gac410 sets mode: +o jast [02:49]
AinsleyRamaihow do i create a wiki with foswiki? [02:49]
gac410uh... Did you install Foswiki? [02:49]
AinsleyRamainope
don't like installing software before i have an idea of what it does
[02:50]
gac410http://foswiki.org runs foswiki. There is a Sandbox web for experimenting Foswiki:Sandbox/WebHome [02:51]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Sandbox/WebHome [ WebHome ] [02:51]
gac410There are some other very easy ways to try without installing a lot. Foswiki on a USB stick version for windows for ex.
Foswiki:Download/OtherFoswikiInstallers (Though some of these are getting very old :( )
[02:53]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Download/OtherFoswikiInstallers [ OtherFoswikiInstallers ] [02:54]
AinsleyRamaiok, well i need to do an assignment which is a collaborative effort, i need to get the other team members onboard. is there an invite function? [02:54]
gac410No, Just point them at Foswiki:Main/UserRegistration Though Sandbox is for experimenting, not for live use. Stuff can be deleted anytime. [02:56]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Main/UserRegistration [ UserRegistration ] [02:56]
AinsleyRamaiI actually need to develop a project plan with a group of 5 members and I need to invite my lecturer as an administrator so he can see out individual inputs
our
[02:57]
gac410Foswiki is a very powerful wiki, but it's also pretty complex.
Foswiki.org is not intended as a general public shared wiki. It's our software development & demonstration site.
[02:58]
AinsleyRamaioh, so it's not a platform that i can use to create my own wiki then? [03:00]
gac410Not foswiki.org. You need to get a server or hosting site and install the software. [03:00]
AinsleyRamaiwell this is really sounding kinda complex now [03:01]
gac410If you want a public wiki for education use and don't want to set up a server and software, you could look at wikispaces. Or something like that. [03:01]
AinsleyRamaiwe were told to look for wikis that have project management tools like gantt charts and excel [03:02]
gac410We have 100's of extensions.. I'm not sure if any do gantt charts. Foswiki has a basic spreadsheet capability but it's not excel. [03:04]
AinsleyRamaithanks for your help, but i don't think this is what I'm looking for. [03:05]
gac410Yeah, Foswiki is rather big for a small one-time project like that. It's more geared for enterprise deployments. Have you looked at wikimatrix?
Have you looked at http://wikimatrix.org or http://wikispaces.com
wikispaces seems to be very focused on what you are looking for.
[03:06]
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AinsleyRamaiyep looked at both, infact wikimatrix landed me on foswiki [03:23]
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ChanServ sets mode: +o pharvey
ChanServ sets mode: +o pharvey
[04:33]
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MichaelDaumno MetaCommentPlugin has nothing in common with the normal CommentPlugin
other than that they are both used for commenting
CommentPlugin can do a lot more on plus.
not necessarily related to commenting
[05:55]
***ChanServ sets mode: +o pharvey [05:56]
MichaelDaumon the other hand comments created by MetaCommentPlugin are addressable in their own: search, filter, approve, approve, hide, format in different ways, threaded...by separating data from presentation
for that MetaCommentPlugins stores comments in META:COMMENT units.
[05:58]
rfHi. Are $Foswiki::{cfg} values initialized before or after initPlugin() is called? [06:01]
pharveyrf: before, although there's nothing stopping plugins from manipulating $Foswiki::cfg whenever they like
but hopefully they don't ;-)
[06:02]
rf:) yeah, I just wondered because I can't get any values printed for debuggung in initPlugin() at the moment. [06:04]
MichaelDaumrf, print STDERR "initPlugin called\n"; ... and then watch your webserver logs. [06:06]
rfSolved, I print to debug.log over Foswiki::Func::writeDebug. [06:07]
FoswikiBothttp://trunk.foswiki.org/System/PerlDoc?module=Foswiki::Func [06:07]
pharveyrf: also check that you don't have a syntax error in your Plugin.pm - hopefully your apache error log complains though, if that's the case (although I've had weird mod_perl config where it didn't)
cool
[06:07]
rfI somehow restricted foswiki from write access...
Sorry. :)
[06:08]
foswiki_irc6is possible disabling the webdav: url in the TopicInteractionPlugin attachments? I dont want webdav but simple download for the .doc attachments. If yes, how? [06:21]
MichaelDaumfoswiki_irc6, $Foswiki::cfg{TopicInteractionPlugin}{WebDAVFilter} = ''; [06:24]
foswiki_irc6Easy! thank you ;) [06:25]
MichaelDaumyou are welcome [06:27]
foswiki_irc6maybe - few words abut it in the doccu... ;) because, it isn't obvious - at least, no for less intelligent monkeys, as me... ;) [06:34]
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ColasHomeMmm, found out why was Short URLs were breaking some things. The redirects lose the parameters of POST requests, so plugins using POSTs requests will not work with Short URLs [06:50]
MichaelDaumyeeha jquery-2.0
No more support for IE 6/7/8 ...
[06:50]
ColasHomeI am toying with 2 solutions: [1] quick and dirty fix to not redirect POST requests, only need fix in the apache config, or [2] proper one where getScriptUrl( 'view' ) emits the Short URLs, avoiding the redirect [06:53]
MichaelDaumoh oh, jquery-2.0.0 doesn't pass yuicompressor [06:53]
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***ChanServ sets mode: +o CDot [07:23]
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fsfsCDot: sorry, I've been meaning to look at the failing unit tests for a while...
Use of uninitialized value $version::LAX in regexp compilation at /home/f/fschlich/FOSWIKI/Release01x01/core/lib/Foswiki/Configure/Dependency.pm line 363.
that's what it says
and my perldoc of version::Internals contains no reference to $version::LAX
[08:12]
it only seems to be documented from version-0.82 [08:27]
MichaelDaumColasHome, there's nothing between you and getScriptUrl('view') generating short urls right away
$Foswiki::cfg{ScriptUrlPaths}{view} = '';
[08:28]
ColasMichael, yes, but it incomplete
it lacks provision for the shortening of the Home web and WebHome
[08:30]
fsfsCDot: and I've put the HTMLValidation output up at http://fschlich.userpage.fu-berlin.de/foswiki/trunk/ - first I looked at seems to be complaining about a lacking TinyMCE plugin [08:31]
Colas/ƀin/view/Home/FooBar => /FooBar & /ƀin/view/Home/WebHome => / & /ƀin/view/Main/WebHome => /Main/ [08:32]
MichaelDaumtrue. [08:34]
***ChanServ sets mode: +o MichaelDaum_ [08:37]
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fsfshmm, now that I've sent the email, I realize that I'm taking the shortcut from Sven's script of not doing a full SVN checkout if there already is one. I'm doing one now, let's see if it helps the HTMLValidation tests [09:05]
Babarwhy don't you use git?
Babar wrote vagrant config and ruby chef tasks to do it :)
[09:07]
fsfswell personally I'm much more comfortable using git over svn, but I wasn't sure what's needed to create a "valid" test-environment and thus was trying to follow Sven's steps as closely as possible [09:16]
MichaelDaumthis is not really git. it is git-svn. a pita.
current git affairs can at best be called an interim state towards a real git repo.
[09:17]
fsfswell, I guess optimally I'd throw away the entire build tree on every run, and then a git clone from github is of course a lot faster than an svn checkout [09:18]
MichaelDaumalas we are stuck in the middle with svn die-hards, git-svnerds and git-readonlyiers [09:19]
fsfsanyway, /me off to lunch for a while [09:19]
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BabarMichaelDaum: I know. I need an unbreak now task to push me to do it. This week-end I'm away, next week-end I have friends coming over... I should do it overnight :( [09:34]
MichaelDaumMichaelDaum forks Barbar on github
we need two of you
[09:35]
Babarfsfs: if you do something like: [ ! -d foswiki ] && git clone ...; cd foswiki ; git clean -fdx ; git reset --hard HEAD ; git pull ; git checkout master ; run-tests.sh ... nobody will yell at you :)
fsfs: as I said, I wrote the chef ruby recipe. The all idea is to have a MINIMAL system so we exactly know what kind of dependencies are required. But the process itself can be tuned.
MichaelDaum: that would be great. My clone could work for $paid_job, and I could work for Foswiki :)
[09:36]
CDotfsfs: yes, TinyMCE is the problem; it has to be installed [09:38]
MichaelDaumand who is taking out your girlfriend and spend the fortune [09:38]
CDotCDot volunteers [09:38]
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Babarso that's settled then :) [10:33]
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fsfsCDot: but TinyMCE is installed when pseudo-install.pl -A developer is called - where could it be "not installed"? [10:48]
CDotfsfs: if it was not enabled, perhaps? Can't really tell from here :-( [10:54]
fsfswell, there's $Foswiki::cfg{Plugins}{TinyMCEPlugin}{Enabled} = 1; in lib/LocalSite.cfg for sure... [10:55]
CDothmmm [10:57]
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FloPriHi folks; WYSIWIG editor isn't working and i get the following message: Failed to load: https://*******.ffg.at/pub/System/TinyMCEPlugin/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/foswikiimage/editor_plugin.js any idea? [11:22]
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CDotFloPri: off-the-shelf 1.1.8? [12:35]
TerjeAndersenDoes it exist any UML diagrams or similar which describe the foswiki core? [12:38]
CDotTerjeAndersen: no [12:40]
TerjeAndersenok [12:40]
***ChanServ sets mode: +o Lynnwood [12:45]
CDotTerjeAndersen: I did write a description of the major modules some years ago, but I never maintained it, and frankly it's not that useful. [12:51]
foswiki_irc1hello @all
I hava a short question to you
is there a plugin/marko to load content lagged?
e.g. I would like to have a front page with lot of searches. so, my idea is now: to display the "static" part very fast and to load some queries a few secound alter
later
maybe it can show like tabpane
[12:53]
TerjeAndersenfoswiki_irc1: for me it sounds like a job for javascript sending requests to a plugin thats implemented a REST handler
delivering the results
[12:56]
***ChanServ sets mode: +o gac410 [12:56]
TerjeAndersenbut im afraid im a novice, some others will probably have better advice for you :-) [12:57]
foswiki_irc1yes, maybe you are right. is there something like that? [12:57]
TerjeAndersennot that i know of [12:57]
foswiki_irc1wrong answer :D [12:58]
TerjeAndersen:) [12:58]
foswiki_irc1but DBCall is not like that or? [12:58]
TerjeAnderseni don't know to be honest [12:59]
foswiki_irc1okay. thanks [13:00]
gac410fsfs: Can you run the view script on your unit test setup, even as a cli script? I know I've dealt with this issue of html in the head, but I just cannot remember what the root cause was.
It's not obvious like a missing extension. It might be a missing dependency, or some other subtle issue that causes the reported extension to fail to load.
Configure tests should be fixed. Sorry for that one. BTW we have another lurking issue about to raise it's head. Any code that depends upon the order of a hash will have intermittent failures on perl blead.
[13:01]
fsfsCould not find a suitable Class::Load implementation: Can't locate Class/Load/XS.pm in @INC
there's Class::Load::PP in lib/CPAN/lib, but not XS
and yes, pseudo-install.pl complains about a missing Class::Load
[13:03]
GithubBot[foswiki] FoswikiBot pushed 1 new commit to Release01x01: http://git.io/Qd1rMA
foswiki/Release01x01 9c741ce GeorgeClark: Item12446: Use local regex for better compatibility...
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item12446 [ Item12446: Dependency check is inconsistent with Perl version comparisons ] [13:05]
gac410I think we are going to have to remove the dependency on Class::Load, it in turn has some complex dependencies. Log::Dispatch needed it, and Sven then added it for other things.
Which makes Log::Dispatch in core also questionable.
[13:05]
GithubBot[foswiki] FoswikiBot pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/80I4hQ
foswiki/master 29b9949 GeorgeClark: Item12446: Use local regex for better compatibility...
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fsfsthe other thing that pseudo-install complains about is IO:: something something [13:07]
CDotfsfs: XS is the interface between Perl and perl functions implemented as native code (e.g. C)
without XS, the world will stop turning and we'll all fall off :-(
[13:07]
fsfsCDot: but why does it want XS and doesn't take the PurePerl implementation instead? [13:07]
CDotmaybe something is loading it explicitly [13:08]
fsfsIO::Socket::IP [13:08]
CDotpossibky; it will be calling a C lib [13:08]
fsfsClass::Load::XS is not a string that can be grepped [13:09]
CDotfoswiki_irc1: TerjeAndersen has the right idea. There may be a rest handler for DBCALL; TBH I don't know.
look for Class::Load
[13:10]
gac410fsfs: If I recall, you might have Class::Load in both lib/cpan/lib and your local perl, and depending upon order, one is looking for XS and one is not.
It's a really confusing area of cpan modules ... at least for me.
[13:11]
fsfsah, looking at the call stack, the Class::Load that foswiki ships requires Package::Stash 0.14, but only version 0.05 is available [13:12]
gac410TBH we really should stop shipping CPAN modules altogether, And let them install using App::cpanminus which seems to do the right thing a lot more often. [13:12]
fsfshmm... lib/CPAN/lib/Package/Stash.pm: $Package::Stash::VERSION = '0.33'; [13:14]
gac410.deb/rpm/ packagers would prefer that we include no CPAN, and let the packages resolve them. lib/CPAN/lib is a "just in case" mess.
I really don't know a good answer. trunk is in a bit of a mess because of this.
[13:14]
fsfsah, the system Package::Stash shadows the foswiki one
gac410: so when I 'use lib ...lib/CPAN/lib' in lib/CPAN/lib/Class/Load/PP.pm, I do get proper HTML output from the view script
[13:15]
gac410fsfs, in LocalLib.cfg $CPANBASE can be set to prepend / append / ignore the lib/CPAN/lib libraries. [13:17]
fsfsgac410: ah, and with that, the HTMLValidationTests pass! [13:17]
CDotExcellent!
CDot prefers to use apt-get rather than CPAN where possible. I've found it a lot less hassle.
but i agree about not shipping CPAN modules. That's just bad.
[13:19]
gac410So now the question is how to fix this in general. One proposal: Foswiki:Development/MoveCPANLibToSeparateContrib [13:22]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Development/MoveCPANLibToSeparateContrib [ MoveCPANLibToSeparateContrib ] [13:22]
gac410There is the "we want Foswiki to work out of the box with no perl / cpan / os knowledge" faction vs. the "let the user install prereq's as needed" faction.
fsfs, did you change LocalLib.cfg to use lib/CPAN/lib as a prepend, append, or ignore?
ie are you using the system version of Class::Load, or the Foswiki version
[13:24]
fsfsgac410: oh, just now I only put "use lib '/home/f/fschlich/FOSWIKI/git/foswiki/core/lib/CPAN/lib';" at the top of lib/CPAN/lib/Class/Load/PP.pm
can try again with LocalLib...
[13:26]
gac410ah. So the issue probably due to mixing some modules from Foswiki, some modules from System [13:27]
fsfsgac410: yes, lib/CPAN/lib/Class/Load/PP.pm wants Package::Stash 0.14, but the system one exists and comes before the Foswiki one in PATH [13:29]
gac410our lib/CPAN/lib approach was fine for simple modules with few / no dependencies. But complex dependencies and especially XS code totally breaks our approach. [13:30]
salihgac410, I see that with Vtiger, they solved that by releasing types of installation. One with bundled MySQL and Apache, and One with just the source.
The firs is like a binary
with MySQL and Apache
for useser whou want out-of the box experience
[13:32]
CDotgac410: has the havoc in your neck of the woods died down yet? [13:34]
gac410We sort of do that now, but all from unofficial. There are rpm and deb packages. The Windows installer has the bundled apache, etc. [13:34]
CDotyeah, caught all that. Hard to imagine a motive for it, but I guess we'll find out eventually. [13:35]
gac410I'm trying to not watch the news. Talking heads keep getting it wrong. Pure speculation. One source reports a rumor, and then all the others pick it up quoting the first as authoritative.
round-the-clock blathering idiots who feel they have to fill air by saying *something*. ...
It's about 40 miles east of where I am.
[13:37]
CDotwell out of it, then. just keep your head down.
lsl
[13:43]
gac410Will do. [13:45]
fsfsI take the "fixes HTMLValidationTests" back. The use lib does fix the cli view call, but starting from scratch, the tests still fail :-/ [13:45]
gac410fsfs, I'm tempted to say leave this failing for now. We really need to solve the lib/CPAN/lib issue, without requiring local tweaks [13:46]
fsfsok, good, $work is calling... [13:47]
gac410:)
1) Ship pre-installed CPAN deps by default. 2) Ship pre-installed CPAN deps in a contrib. 3) Ship a deplist and tool to build missing deps with cpanm in a private lib. 4) Ship a dep installer like in tools that tries to install using multiple tools
[13:47]
Babargac410: typo in your last commit: requried ;) [13:56]
gac410:P Typo's in comments - I guess it's sloppy but meh... I though you were saying that I misspelled an active statement. I really did test. [13:58]
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I updated Foswiki:Development/MoveCPANLibToSeparateContrib I think that this is another blocker for 1.2. [14:14]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Development/MoveCPANLibToSeparateContrib [ MoveCPANLibToSeparateContrib ] [14:14]
gac410Opened Item12475 as a blocker for 1.2. [14:26]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item12475 [ Item12475: Recend additions to CPAN libraries cause issues on some systems ] [14:26]
gac410Grrr. Babar, I fixed that error. "Recent additions ..." :P [14:27]
TerjeAndersenAfter login with WikiName fetched from LdapContrib, how could i ensure that a user topic is automaticly created if it doesen't exist already?
Now, the user logs in, gets his wikiname correctly, but the user topic is not created automatically
[14:41]
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gac410TerjeAndersen: Check out the Foswiki:Extensions.NewUserPlugin [16:00]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Extensions.NewUserPlugin [ NewUserPlugin ] [16:00]
TerjeAndersengac410: thank you! :-) [16:01]
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rhubarbcan someone help me with LDAPContrib issue? Getting the following: ERROR: Could not open logfile /var/www/foswiki/working/logs/error.log for write. Your admin should 'configure' now and fix the errors! However, I log into config and I don't see any errors.
error.log is writeable so it's not a permission issue.
[19:00]
gac410How about ownership, is it owned by the apache user? [19:01]
rhubarbyes
seems rather large
which is strange
As if it didn't rollover
but there is space on drive.
[19:01]
gac410The plainfile logger has issues rolling logfiles. Which version of Foswiki are you on?
Where does that error show up? ( ERROR: Could not open logfile /var/www/foswiki/working/logs/error.log for write.)
[19:02]
rhubarbI run the following command to re-sync ldap cd /var/www/foswiki/bin && ./view refreshldap=on Main/WebHome
and the error appears
[19:03]
gac410Ah... What user are you running that as? [19:04]
rhubarbI don't want to say
haha
[19:04]
gac410Well not the apache user, and not root? [19:04]
rhubarbbingo
let me see if it works
[19:04]
gac410You should run that as the apache user.
You also must make sure that the ldap cache doesn't end up owned by the wrong user, and/or the logfile changes ownership, both of which could break the webserver
[19:05]
rhubarbI'm so dopey
:\
that was it
[19:06]
gac410No problem... I've done that a bunch of times :) [19:06]
rhubarbthx :) [19:06]
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