#foswiki 2013-07-22,Mon

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dj_segfaultI added " * Set ALLOWTOPICVIEW= WikiGuest" to System/UserRegistration, and when I go to that URL when not logged in, Chromimum says "This webpage has a redirect loop" then an internal system error [00:00]
gac410Ah... Check to see what the page %INCLUDES
DefaultUserRegistration maybe?
something like that anyway.
[00:00]
dj_segfaultError log says "warning | Foswiki::Plugins::InterwikiPlugin | InterwikiPlugin: user 'guest' did not have permission to read the rules topic at 'System.InterWikis' " [00:01]
FoswikiBothttp://trunk.foswiki.org/System/PerlDoc?module=Foswiki::Plugins::InterwikiPlugin [00:02]
gac410Oops.. need to allow that too.
There are some basic operation topics that you'll need for guests.
It's been a while since I've played with this stuff,
but System.UserRegistration %INCLUDES System.DefaultUserRegistration or Main.UserRegistration
[00:02]
dj_segfaultSame thing on the browser, but now no error at all in the logs. So I need to add allowtopicview for guest to those other pages too? [00:08]
gac410Yes, System.UserRegistration has a %INCLUDE for System.DefaultUserRegistration
If you want a guest to view a page, then all included components, and TemplateTopics also must be allowed.
For ex. if the topic needs a custom ViewTemplate, you'll need to allow that one too.
Ah,... But don't allow WikiGuest, Deny foofoouser :)
[00:09]
dj_segfaultUgh [00:11]
gac410Remember, allowing WikiGuest, will deny your logged in users. It's a pain. I know. [00:11]
dj_segfaultYes, but the auth system was the main reason I chose Foswiki, [00:12]
gac410yeah, it's pretty flexible.
It would be nice to have an AllUsers pseudo user, At least it would be clearer than the deny route. But doing that type of change is probably beyond me. :)
[00:13]
dj_segfaultSo I add " * Set DENYTOPICVIEW = %USERSWEB%.foofoouser" to ALL pages we talked about that I need everyone to get to? (UserRegistration, DefaultUserRegistration, PasswordChange, etc) [00:14]
gac410PasswordReset, You should not need to add it to PasswordChange, since a user needs to know their password to use that one. [00:14]
dj_segfaultJust so I understand, fooofoouser doesn't mean anything, it's job is to not match ANYTHING. Right? [00:15]
gac410Right. And it would probably be clearer for future admins to use NonExistingUser or something like that. [00:15]
dj_segfaultThat's where I'm going with that... Yes
This all needs to be written up somewhere. I *think* I have perms to contribute to Foswiki docs. but if not I'll put something out there for someone else to add who can
[00:16]
gac410There might be something there somewhere already. You are not the first person to have asked. [00:17]
dj_segfaultWould it be safe to use %USERSWEB%.Nobody or is that a special thing that will run me into trouble? [00:20]
gac410hm... Not sure. I think it would be safe. [00:21]
dj_segfaultI guess I'll find out. Maybe I should use SantaClause instead [00:22]
gac410Ah... There is a "NobodyGroup" that is an empty group. Docs say" Used to prevent dangerous actions e.g. renaming DefaultPreferences - put NobodyGroup as the only group allowed to rename a topic and it can't be renamed. "
We could probably add to that topic. If you DENY NobodyGroup, then everybody will be allowed including WikiGuest.
Well if the Support web covers this topic, I can't find it :(
[00:23]
dj_segfaultWhat page is that on? [00:26]
gac410Main.NobodyGroup [00:26]
dj_segfaultNo, I mean where did you see that in the docs? [00:27]
gac410It's in the NobodyGroup (self documenting) [00:28]
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dj_segfaultOK, PasswordReset isn't a wiki page so I can't edit it. But they have to be registered in order to have a password to change, so i don't think that one is needed. [00:33]
gac410Doh... Try System.ResetPassword. And that's used when the user forgets his/her password.
So guest needs to have access.... Unless you like admin work resetting passwords :)
[00:34]
dj_segfaultUserRegistration still isn't working. "InterwikiPlugin: user 'guest' did not have permission to read the rules topic at 'System.InterWikis' But I have " * Set DENYTOPICVIEW = %USERSWEB%.NobodyGroup" on System/InterWikis [00:38]
gac410Hm... [00:41]
dj_segfaultCould it have to do with the interaction between the plugin and the page? [00:42]
gac410Try System.UserRegistration?debugenableplugins=EmptyPlugin [00:44]
dj_segfaultAlso that page has all sorts of unusual stuff on it. Could placement matter? It's currently at the bottom below %JQREQUIRE{"chili"}% [00:44]
gac410Placement should not matter. Hm... unless there is already a ALLOW or DENY in the meta. Look at the raw=all view [00:45]
dj_segfaultWHen I go to UserRegistration?debugenableplugins=EmptyPlugin I get the login page [00:46]
gac410Now add System.UserRegistration?debugenableplugins=EmptyPlugin,InterwikiPlugin
That should break it. And we need to figure out why the Interwiki rules are not being permitted.
[00:46]
dj_segfaultThe URL is http://wiki.agilenewengland.org/bin/login/System/UserRegistration if you watn tot try it yourself
That also brings me to the login page
[00:47]
gac410I must have the syntax wrong. [00:49]
No I have the syntax right. This is really strange. What this tells me is that it's actually not the InterwikIPlugin that's having the issue. [00:56]
dj_segfault: This is really confusing, I have no idea why that's failing. But I can't view your System.InterWikis, so are you sure there isn't a typo in your DENY? [01:06]
dj_segfaultCould it be something else that it pulls in? There are SO many things pulled into that page
<!--
* Set DENYTOPICVIEW = %USERSWEB%.NobodyGroup
-->
Let me try changing it to something besides NobodyGroup
[01:06]
gac410I was about to suggest that, but Nobody Group should really work. Might be a bug if it doesn't [01:07]
dj_segfaultNope. Same thing. I changed it to NowhereMan (I thought maybe the Beatles reference would help) [01:08]
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[01:09]
gac410Check the raw=all view, is there any other access control in that topic? [01:09]
dj_segfaultSame "Page created a loop", same error in error.log
I did http://wiki.agilenewengland.org/bin/login/System/UserRegistration?raw=all That's what you meant, right?
[01:11]
gac410Hm... no System.InterWikis
If the DENYTOPIC is set correctly, then I should have been able to view that topic.
[01:12]
dj_segfaultSame thing. I get "InterwikiPlugin: user 'guest' did not have permission to read the rules topic at 'System.InterWikis'" a bunch of times in the log [01:13]
gac410No... as admin, go to System.InterWikis?raw=all Is there any other access control that might conflict with the DENY [01:14]
dj_segfaultOh, as admin. I've been doing all these tests in my other browser not logged in! [01:14]
gac410I'm not asking you to test
We need to figure out why your DENY in the System.InterWikis is not working
[01:14]
dj_segfaultSee http://pastebin.com/nXPCmTvx for what I'm seeing [01:16]
gac410Code that generates the error issues: Foswiki::Func::checkAccessPermission( 'VIEW', $user, undef, $interTopic, $interWeb) So for some reason, guest still can't read the Interwiki topic. [01:16]
FoswikiBothttp://trunk.foswiki.org/System/PerlDoc?module=Foswiki::Func [01:16]
dj_segfaultInterWikis has no other allow/denies
Go home, FoswikiBot. You're drunk
[01:17]
gac410Hm... Do you have a Main.InterWikis topic? [01:18]
dj_segfaultNo [01:18]
gac410Hm Try " * Set DENYTOPICVIEW = " That is, set it to an empty string. That should also be an allow all.
What do you have in your System.WebPreferences, in FINALPREFERENCES?
[01:20]
dj_segfaultI don't have one
---++ Access control
Users or groups who are allowed to view, change and rename topics in the <nop>%WEB% web
* Set DENYWEBVIEW = %USERSWEB%.WikiGuest
* Set ALLOWWEBCHANGE = %USERSWEB%.AdminGroup
* Set ALLOWWEBRENAME = %USERSWEB%.AdminGroup
Users or groups allowed to change or rename this <nop>%TOPIC% topic
* Set ALLOWTOPICCHANGE = %USERSWEB%.AdminGroup
Thanks for sticking with this. My entire web hosting is down until I get this worked out, and that includes our main public-facing site
[01:23]
gac410I don't understand why, but try changing all your DENYTOPICVIEW from NobodyGroup or whatever, to just a space. * Set DENYTOPICVIEW =
I'm changing my wiki here to try to recreate this.
Also you'll need to allow System.WebTopBarExample
[01:32]
dj_segfaultDENYTOPICVIEW = should have no effect
Is System.WebTopBarExample a user?
[01:33]
gac410It's documented as deprecated, but DENYTOPICVIEW = <a space> is documented as allowing everbody. The WebTopBarExample, WebLeftBarExample, and WebBottomBarExample are all skin topics for rendering the page.
Probably better to actually set their permissions in the metadata rather that <!-- html comments -->
[01:35]
dj_segfaultOK, you lost me. Are you saying I need to add " * Set DENYTOPICVIEW = " to WebTopBarExample, WebLeftBarExample, and WebBottomBarExample as well as changing InterWikis, UserRegistration,,... [01:37]
gac410Yes
Or if you customized, WebTopBar, instead of WebTopBarExample, etc.
Either "Edit settings" ... or if using an external file editor, add a line:
%META:PREFERENCE{name="DENYTOPICVIEW" title="DENYTOPICVIEW" type="Set" value=""}%
[01:38]
dj_segfaultOh, I never saw that syntax before! That's instead of the bullet list? [01:40]
gac410Yes, But you add that using the "Edit topic settings" under "More topic actions"
But add it as a bullet, it gets saved as metadata
So .. More actions, Edit settings, * Set DENY ... Save, Then look in the raw topic debug view (raw=all) and you'll see the metadata
Especially important in templates and included topics, HTML comments can really mess things up.
[01:41]
dj_segfaultAh, maybe that was the problem all along [01:43]
gac410No probably not in the way you think If a <!-- is nested inside another <!-- via includes or whatever., the first --> closes both comments and will totally break some browsers
The $100000 question, is this approach working?
Hm... still cannot view InterWikis :(
I basically have it all working by using the set DENYTOPICVIEW to an empty string
[01:44]
dj_segfaultI know I'm forgetting a page. There was one page that loaded an example page. Do you remember which one? [01:47]
gac410Hm. Well the skins all include WebTopBarExample, WebLeftBarExample, WebBottomBarExample, and WebLeftBarWebsList, and UserRegistration includes DefaultUserRegistration [01:49]
dj_segfaultAh that last one was it. I'lll be done in a sec
No go. Same problem (loop, and Main.InterWikis)
[01:52]
gac410Main.InterWikis or System.InterWikis
(I think the default is System.InterWikis)
[01:55]
dj_segfaultYeah, working on that now
Now I get the "loop" but nothing in error log. In my book that's worse
[01:56]
gac410I just don't get it, I don't ever get the loop here no matter what I do. [01:58]
dj_segfaultWTF! My edit disappeared!
Every time I edit System/InterWikis it saves, then when I edit it again, the changes are gone!
[01:58]
gac410Wysiwyg? [02:01]
dj_segfaultNo, I always edit in raw. I hate wysiwyg
All of them, not just foswiki.
[02:01]
gac410Do a "shift-reload" refresh the browser cache.
What version of Foswiki are you running.
[02:02]
dj_segfaultI just upgraded a few weeks ago to 1.1.8 from 1.1.4 [02:03]
gac410I've been testing on my trunk git checkout, let me switch over to 1.1.8 [02:04]
dj_segfault** Note that normal text added to that page saves, but the %META:PREFERENCE{name="DENYTOPICVIEW" title="DENYTOPICVIEW" type="Set" value=""}% disappears. So it's something about the tag [02:04]
gac410Oh.... You cannot edit that in with the editor. As I said, you need to use the "More topic actions" :"Edit Settings" and then add it as a plain old bullet format. [02:05]
dj_segfaultOK, it worked as a bullet but I'll try the more topications [02:06]
gac410The only way to add the %META line manually is with an offline editor, like VI [02:06]
dj_segfaultIs that specific to the InterWIkis page? [02:06]
gac410When you add a bullet to the Edit Settings, it saves it as %META. Nope,
That's how Foswiki manages settings in metadata. Using the Settings editor.
[02:06]
dj_segfaultUsing the " * Set Foo = Bar" always seems to work until now. [02:08]
gac410It still should work. [02:08]
dj_segfaultWhen I do edit topic preference settings and put in %META:PREFERENCE{name="DENYTOPICVIEW" title="DENYTOPICVIEW" type="Set" value=""}% then save it and do that again, it comes up blank [02:10]
gac410No no... put a Bullet in the settings
I'm sorry, Way back ... somewhere I thought I said you only use %META if you edit the .txt file offline.
Your site was down so I wasn't sure what you were doing
A bullet in the Setting page becomes a %META line when you save the settings.
[02:10]
dj_segfaultSorry, maybe my bad. I got them to open a hole for my IP. So the wiki is up for me, and I'm doing all of this over the web
I should have said that. Sorry
I can also SSH in if need be
I've never used META before. I always use " * Set"
[02:12]
gac410META is internal, You should never use that directly, except in real dire circumstances :)
Always use * Set that is the correct approach. But use the Settings editor for critical topics, avoid the <!-- comments
[02:14]
dj_segfaultOK, so should I go back and put " * Set DENYTOPICVIEW = " on System/InterWikis? [02:15]
gac410System.InterWikis and Main.InterWikis yes
For them, your choice, inline, or a <!-- comment, or a "topic setting"
[02:15]
dj_segfaultMain/InterWikis doesn't exist [02:16]
gac410But for WebLeftBarExample, etc, I'd recommend using the settings editor since it's included so much and is part of the skin. [02:16]
dj_segfaultBut you told me <!-- comments can break things when pages include other pages [02:17]
gac410InterWikis isn't included anywhere that I know of.
I'm sorry, I'm just not communicating very well tonight I guess :(
back in a minute
I'm back
I just don't get why your InterWiki plugin is having these issues. I'm unable to recreate that particular failure.
[02:17]
dj_segfaultOK so I'm editing the settings of WebTopBarExample. Do I put the meta thing in there or do I put the bullet format? [02:24]
gac410Editing settings, put in the bullet.
I've recreated the InterWikis fail. But I still don't get a redirect loop.
[02:25]
dj_segfaultSo it's not me, then
I get the same loop. If it helps, this is the URL in the browser after I get the loop error:
http://wiki.agilenewengland.org/bin/login/System/UserRegistration?foswiki_origin=GET%2clogin%2c/bin/login/System/UserRegistration%3ffoswiki_origin%3dGET%252clogin%252c/bin/login/System/UserRegistration%253ffoswiki_origin%253dGET%25252clogin%25252c/bin/login/System/UserRegistration%25253ffoswiki_origin%25253dGET%2525252clogin%2525252c/bin/login/System/UserRegistration%2525253ffoswiki_origin%2525253dGET%252525252clogin%2
(My IRC client didn't like that. DId you get that URL?
[02:27]
gac410Yes, I was just running wireshark to look at the redirect.
It has to be a plugin of some sort. debugenableplugins= causes the page to not redirect.
Look at your System.InstalledPlugins. You could start adding them one at a time .. .or a few at a time, to the url For ex:
http://wiki.agilenewengland.org/bin/login/System/UserRegistration?debugenableplugins=TwistyPlugin,JQueryPlugin,InterWikiPlugin
and it still works. But I don't know what other plugins you use.
One of them is going to start the redirect loop, and we can go from there.
It's not InterWiki ... That just logs an error and renders the Interwiki link as a literal.
[02:32]
dj_segfaultMaybe a plugin that isn't playing nice after 1.1.8 upgrade [02:36]
gac410Not a lot of people lock down system web, so it could also just be a buggy plugin. [02:37]
dj_segfaultRight, but Systems web is exactly what I need to protect from crawlers [02:38]
gac410We'll get there. We need to identify what is the problem. Because a simple debugenableplugins fixes the issue, we should be able to resolve this. [02:39]
dj_segfaultI think there's another logic problem though. When I go to http://wiki.agilenewengland.org/bin/login/System/UserRegistration?debugenableplugins=TwistyPlugin,JQueryPlugin,InterWikiPlugin it redirects me to the login page. But it shouldn't and that's the real problem. I should be able to get to UserRegistration without logging in.
I think we need to work on that first
DO you agree?
[02:40]
gac410yes indeed, you are correct [02:41]
dj_segfaultIt happens :)
Could it be that I can get to UserRegistration without logging in but it's including something else that needs login? I just checked settings for DefaultUserRegistration and that does have " * Set DENYTOPICVIEW = "
[02:41]
gac410Okay, Do you have a "Main.UserRegistration" topic?
Ah... You also need to add Set DENYTOPC to System.UserRegistration.
[02:42]
dj_segfaultNo [02:44]
gac410System.DefaultUserRegistration does not redirect, System.UserRegistration does.
Grrr. But it does loop if you remove the debugenableplugins :(
[02:44]
dj_segfaultI have " * Set DENYTOPICVIEW = " in the system settings of System/UserRegistration [02:45]
gac410I'm not being asked to login http://wiki.agilenewengland.org/bin/view/System/UserRegistration?debugenableplugins=TwistyPlugin, [02:46]
dj_segfaultSo it *is* a plugin causing it? [02:47]
gac410I think so.
Still working: http://wiki.agilenewengland.org/bin/view/System/UserRegistration?debugenableplugins=TwistyPlugin,JQueryPlugin,TablePlugin,EditTablePlugin,WysiwygPlugin
[02:47]
dj_segfaultDude I have like 50 plugins [02:48]
gac410That's what I was afraid of :) [02:49]
dj_segfaultMaybe I'll start with the "Topic*" ones
Wouldn't it have to be a plugin used on that page?
[02:49]
gac410If you figure out which one, you could probably DISABLE it on the registration page to get things working.
Not necessarily.
Could be in the plugin init code, or a CommonTagsHandler, etc.
Only if the issue is in a registered TAG handler, would it need to have a tag on the page.
[02:52]
dj_segfaultSide Note: On InstalledPlugins, JEditableContribPlugin and JSTreeContribPlugin are red instead of blue and have no description [02:57]
Found it: TocPlugin
Does that mean there's a bug in it?
[03:02]
gac410Hm... They don't have a plugin topic then. Probably because the plugin componenent is a minor part of the contrib.
TocPlugin, ... probably.
I'm not really familiar with it.
%TOC% is a "special tag" so the plugin probably does some unnatural acts to process it, and has to read the topic
[03:03]
dj_segfaultI disabled that, and without the debug parameter, UserRegistration takes me to the login page. Which is still wrong. [03:07]
gac410So there is still another issue. :(
TocPlugin uses readTopic, which bypasses access permission checks.
[03:07]
dj_segfaultTocPlugin is not used for the normal %TOC%, right? [03:09]
gac410I don't know. [03:09]
dj_segfaultLet me test [03:09]
gac410I'm not familiar with that plugin at all. I was just poking through the code looking for what might trigger a redirect. But as you still redirect, it's not that one. [03:09]
dj_segfaultNo, %TOC% is still working. Good.
WAIT!!! Somehow the URL got changed from bin/view/UserRegistration to bin/login/UserRegistration!!! The first URL works!
I want to test adding a user, but there's no way to delete them fully. Oh well, I guess I'll try anyway
[03:10]
gac410AntiWikiSpamPlugin has code that will remove a user [03:14]
dj_segfaultOK registration works. Let me go over the site one last test
OK, I think we finally have it!
I can go to http://wiki.agilenewengland.org/bin/view/System/UserRegistration and register, and any other URL without logging in goes to the login page
[03:19]
gac410Excellent. If you have public content that Guest should access, check out those pages, You might need to authorize other topics [03:21]
dj_segfaultWith so many changes we did and undid I fear I would have trouble writing this up at this point, but if you don't find the other documentation, I'll try. Unless you have time to do it yourself
I should be able to show any page by adding DENYTOPICVIEW = to it though.
[03:22]
gac410Correct. [03:23]
dj_segfaultI'll bet if I tried to enable a whole web it would go badly though [03:23]
gac410hm... Since a whole web is what is denied, does that make sense? [03:23]
dj_segfaultLet me try quickly
So when do I need to use the edit preference settings, and when can I just add a bullet set at the bottom of the page?
[03:24]
gac410bullet on page, when you don't care if anyone can see it,
And for non-sensitive topics - some topics don't take kindly to extra lines added by the presence of <!-- -->
I added it as a simple bullet to the Top bar, etc. and messed up rendering.
By the way, you should really copy the Web*BarExample topics to Web*Bar without the example, So a future upgrade doesn't overlay them.
[03:26]
dj_segfaultNOpe. As expected I added the bullet to http://wiki.agilenewengland.org/bin/view/AgileGames2012/WebPreferences, and when I go to http://wiki.agilenewengland.org/bin/view/AgileGames2012/WebHome I get redirected to the login page [03:30]
FoswikiBot[ (Foswiki login) WebHome ] [03:30]
dj_segfaultIf I get this all to work, I'll do that. As it looks I may have to roll the whole thing back [03:31]
gac410I'm confused.... What did you add to AgileGames2012/WebPreferences [03:31]
dj_segfaultSet DENYTOPICVIEW = [03:31]
gac410DENYTOPIC only applies to the WebPreferences topic itself. DENYWEB would apply to the web. [03:32]
dj_segfaultSo I should be able to get to AgileGames2012/WebHome without logging in
DUH.
Sorry
[03:32]
gac410no problem,. it
it's getting late :)
[03:32]
dj_segfaultSuccess!
Yes, it's after midnight here. Thanks again
[03:34]
gac410You're welcome. (I'm in the same timezone) [03:35]
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GithubBot[foswiki] FoswikiBot pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/sfOZqA
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item12555 [ Item12555: Improve wording for InterWiki Link Rules ] [08:16]
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FeigrimDoes anyone know of a plugin for Foswiki that allows me to link information in a table to a topic, so that when information is changed in that topic the row in the table will automatically update, or the other way around
We have a wiki with a separate topic for each server in our datacenter, and we also have a separate topic with a big table of all the hostnames and IP addresses, and it would be convenient if we only needed to change the IP or hostname in one of the places and it would automatically update in the other place
[11:24]
ModAcOstYou can add an IP-field to your form and query that. [11:40]
Feigrimso that's a special type of entry in a form that you can grab and put into a table in another topic? [11:42]
ModAcOstYou can access any formfield value eg. %QUERY{"MyServerTopic/IP"}% would give the IP entered in the formfield of MyServerTopic. [11:50]
jastactually it's %QUERY{"'MyServerTopic'/IP"}% [11:50]
FeigrimI get a missing operator error, does the syntax change if there is a space in the form entry name? It's "IP Address" [11:52]
jastall bets are off, then...
but try using IPAddress in the query
[11:54]
Feigrimworked! :D
thanks
hmm, does the syntax change if I need to put it in another part of the wiki?
nvm solve dit
[11:55]
Is there any way to make the query have a fallback? So if the topic that I query gets deleted it will display a specific message in the form? [12:05]
jasttry an extra default="..." parameter in the QUERY macro
I'm not completely sure if it works that way... depends on the macro
if it doesn't, it gets more complicated
[12:14]
Feigrimok I'll test [12:19]
where should I put the default=? [12:27]
ModAcOstafaic default does not work in query [12:27]
Feigrimok [12:27]
ModAcOsts/afaic/afaik/ [12:27]
Feigrimit would be nice for the external IP addresses in the table to be left behind if a server (topic) gets removed so we can see that it's available [12:28]
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