#foswiki 2014-07-16,Wed

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WhoWhatWhen
gac410er running the browser on the local server. .
pharvey, iis 403, not foswiki denied'
[00:00]
foswiki_irc7For the remote user, it's the IIS 403 error, for a user on the server it's foswiki's denial page. [00:00]
pharveyDoes the IIS server run anything else? Or was it installed/configured just for Foswiki?
There might be eg. an .htaccess somewhere doing something
as well as IIS config deny access on the LAN?
[00:01]
foswiki_irc7It's currently running on my PC, and is just to get things going. When things are looking good, I'll transfer Foswiki to our main server, which is already running IIS. [00:03]
pharveyI suppose what I'm getting at, is the IIS server in a known good working state to do what you expect. Does it correctly serve other content/applications [00:03]
gac410hm.... When we send a 403, we send it with the html message. could IIS be overriding our 403 message and supplying it's default message. [00:04]
foswiki_irc7Good question. It's only being used on my PC for Foswiki at the moment. I have tried static pages, but no other CGI content. [00:04]
pharveyan important thing to get right in the Foswiki configure stage is the PermittedRedirectHostUrls and DefaultUrlHost
gac410: that's possible
[00:05]
gac410Are you using the same browser locally and on the remote client? Some versions of IE always display a hard message and not the server provided 403 document. [00:05]
pharveyif Foswiki sees it's serving from an unknown hostname/domain/URL-path it will deny a redirect to the login page when you try to edit [00:06]
gac410hm. but the exact same page / url / user gets foswiki Access Denied page, when browser is on the local system. [00:06]
pharveyI know. Just going through my mental checklist I've had to use in the past for such issues :)
is FastCGI in use?
[00:07]
gac410Ah.... Is the remote system going in by hostname, or by IP, for ex. http://localhost/Main/Web vs. http://192.168.../Main/Web. That could be related to a redirect issue.
FastCGI on IIS?
[00:07]
pharveyI believe ActivePerl does FastCGI doesn't it?
which perl env is in use?
again, I guess it's already been covered, but have you seen or are you following http://foswiki.org/Support/FoswikiOnWin2KR2IISAndActivePerl ?
[00:08]
gac410no idea. never touched IIS. Actually if foswiki_irc7 has an operational config, it would be reallly helpful to comment on our ancient IIS information. [00:09]
foswiki_irc7I'm using ActivePerl. Same browser on server and remote PC (Chrome). Both browsers using local PC's name in address, being resolved by local DNS. [00:09]
gac410Ah... I forgot that StevenHill updated that for us. [00:10]
pharveyThere's also http://foswiki.org/Support/FoswikiOnWindowsIISAndPerl [00:10]
gac410hm. The user is already logged in (right?) So there isn't a redirect. I just verified. It returns a 403 status with the 403 page generated by Foswiki.
If you use the chrome developer tools to trace the connection, you should see the response. no redirect. It would be interesting to compare what actually happens locally vs. the remote system.
[00:18]
foswiki_irc7Thanks, I'll learn about the developer tools.
By the way, http://foswiki.org/Support/FoswikiOnWindowsIISAndPerl is quite out of date.
[00:23]
pharveyis http://foswiki.org/Support/FoswikiOnWin2KR2IISAndActivePerl more relevant? [00:24]
foswiki_irc7I'll have a look at it. Unfortunately we are running Small Business Server 2008. [00:26]
gac410I'm sorry we are not being all that helpful foswiki_irc7 - We just don't have much experience with IIS. I'm afraid that you'll be encountering some challenges ... especially as you install extensions [00:26]
foswiki_irc7I was hoping to avoid Apache, as the server already has IIS, and there may be some resistance to putting apache on the server. [00:30]
pharveyI take it the IIS logs don't give any clues? [00:31]
gac410It's not just Apache. There are just some things that are going to be difficult to run on Windows. Esp. things that use external tools. DirectedGraphPlugin for ex. Plugins that use tools to generate thumbnails, etc.
I'm not saying that it won't work, just that there will be some challenges along the way, and not a lot of experience here to help :)
I do run a sanity check on an old Windows XP VM w/ apache and Strawberry perl, on my laptop before I build each new Foswiki release. But not much else I'm afraid.
FoswikiBot... you're driving me nutz gmc where o where are you.... Sleeping probably :D
[00:31]
foswiki_irc7Thanks @gas410. That makes me a bit nervous... Are you saying better not to consider Foswiki unless I can also run apache / linux ? [00:38]
gac410No, just that you'll probably be needing to do more testing than on a linux/apache server. or nginx or lighttpd The windows env. is just different enough [00:39]
foswiki_irc7OK, I'll go and do more homework on the 403 error, and read the http://foswiki.org/Support/FoswikiOnWin2KR2IISAndActivePerl page, thanks. [00:41]
gac410Welcome back and ask around off and on. Maybe someone with windows experience might pop up. SvenDowideit built our windows installers, but he's been really scarce lately. [00:43]
pharveyhi might suggest running boot2docker ;-)
he*
[00:44]
SvenDowideitoooooooo man
i am soooo no there
[00:44]
foswiki_irc7I have some great news! The page http://foswiki.org/Support/FoswikiOnWin2KR2IISAndActivePerl had the answer: Disable custom errors to allow Foswiki custom error codes Open ‘Error Pages’ ‘Edit Feature Settings’ Select ‘Detailed errors’ [00:44]
pharveyall windozed out? [00:44]
SvenDowideiti need a foswiki Dockerfile :/ [00:44]
pharveyah :) [00:44]
SvenDowideitbut i has no time - I think I just failed to acheive the one and only task i had for the day
and its only 11am ffs
[00:45]
foswiki_irc7Thanks everyone for your help. I'm going to sign off now. [00:45]
gac410Howdy SvenDowideit Long time no talk. We are making slow progress toward a 1.2.0 release. Configure is still a conundrum.
see you foswiki_irc7 let us know how it goes.
[00:45]
pharveygood luck :) [00:46]
foswiki_irc7Thanks! [00:46]
SvenDowideitheya :) yeah, i see hints here and there
there is also an analysis out there that says the fosiki (github) org is the third top contributor to Docker
so ... well done :)
[00:48]
gac410SvenDowideit: We'll have a release meeting on Monday 7/21 at 1300Z So far 2 meetings a month. We can pick your brain on some of the unfinished work. So far it appears we can just ignore it. Nothing stands out as requiring revert
fosiki or foswiki ?
[00:49]
***ChanServ sets mode: +o Lynnwood_ [00:49]
SvenDowideitfos_w_iki
because pharvey and I are in the foswiki orgs i imagine ;)
yeah, you should be able to ignore
most things were working at trin enough to be 'ok'
[00:49]
gac410damn you FoswikiBot [00:51]
pharveytrin issues mostly related to the usual RCS shenanigans that were actually worse IIRC under 1.1, and pushing MongoDB quite hard [00:51]
gac410CDot's plain file store contrib looks like it will be a big help for the rcs issues. [00:52]
SvenDowideitna, you're all crazy :) [00:55]
gac410:P [00:56]
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foswiki_irc5Hi, I got such great support here this morning that I'm keen to ask another question. [02:15]
gac410sure go for it! [02:15]
foswiki_irc5Thanks! When I edit a topic I can see faint text behind the actual words I've typed. I just deleted an entry in a table, and I can see written in light blue the words "protect on save" in the empty cell. Is this normal? [02:17]
gac410Ah yes. I assume you are using the Wysiwyg editor? That's a <div> or is it a <span> that marks the block to not be modified during the save process.
You can probably ignore it. The wysiwyg editor is really a HTML editor. The foswiki uses TML - topic markup language. So the "protect" attributes prevents conversion from HTML back to TML which can lose some html attributes that TML doesn't support.
You can manually protect blocks of TML (Plain Text / Wiki Text edited content) by using <sticky> </sticky> pseudo tags. That will end up watermarked as "Protect Forever" when editing.
[02:18]
foswiki_irc5I think I understand. I think it might be distracting/confusing for some of our less technical staff. Is there a way to hide the watermarking? [02:21]
gac410Hm, I'm not really sure. [02:21]
foswiki_irc5I assume the WYSIWYG editor is actually the TinyMCEPlugin? [02:23]
gac410Yes.
I'm poking around trying to see if the markup comes from css or a graphic. Have not found it yet.
As your users become more familiar, the ability to protect markup becomes pretty important.
Protect on save is automatically applied to any Foswiki macro. %SOMEMACRO{"blah" parm="foo"}% It makes sure that TinyMCE doesn't break the markup.
[02:23]
foswiki_irc5How do I explain it to them? For example, edited the Main page they get "Welcome to the <nop>%USERSWEB% web" in large brown text. Is there a Foswiki page that talks about what <nop> means? [02:27]
gac410Hm http://foswiki.org/System/EditingShorthand covers a lot of that. The <nop> that one was missed. It basically escapes a wikiword to prevent it from linking. [02:29]
foswiki_irc5I think that page talks about wiki text, not strange codes you could expect to see in the WYSIWYG editor. [02:30]
gac410This is embarrassing ... I can't find where <nop> is defined. The <nop> is part of regular wiki text, nothing to do with wysiwyg. [02:31]
foswiki_irc5I think some of our team might never edit using wiki text (if they can avoid it), [02:31]
gac410I expect that is true. It's not unusual.
I'll keep searching and update the docs for 1.2. <nop> is an important markup. As is the ! exclamation point escape. There are subtle but important differences.
[02:32]
foswiki_irc5Maybe I can tell them: "sometimes you'll see light blue text (like a watermark), behind some of the special codes used on a page. Those codes need special treatment, hence the watermark, but any text you write won't be affected." [02:36]
gac410right. That should be pretty clear. Those "protections" show up at the bottom of the Wysiwyg "Format" dropdown selection box. Protect on Save and Protect Forever. [02:38]
foswiki_irc5I see, they do too. Thanks. Seems like we are in the same timezone. Are you around for the rest of the day? [02:41]
gac410Actually it's nearly 11pm here. Sleep on the agenda for sometime in the next couple of hours :) [02:44]
foswiki_irc5OK, my mistake. I'm going to duck out for lunch so may not catch you again. Thanks for your help. [02:45]
gac410sure. stop back anytime. [02:45]
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RiskRewardHi gac410, are you still online? [03:32]
gac410yes. still here. [03:33]
RiskRewardI was talking to you earlier using IRC on the support page, but have just downloaded an App [03:33]
gac410Seems to be working :) [03:34]
RiskRewardQuick question. I'm setting up a quality management system at our office, and intend to use Foswiki to create and collaborate on the documents...
...hence I am experimenting with the Workflow Plugin. It has a nice feature where it can email people if a topic has changed state...
...what I'm wondering is this: I'd like the email to contain a link to the wiki topic being revised. I noticed that in the standard password reset email...
...there is a link that says "Please vist http://localhost/Foswiki-1.1.9/bin/view.pl/System/ChangePassword to change your password...
...is there some wiki code that expands to the full http:// address for the install, that I can slip into the email sent out by the Workflow plugin?
[03:35]
gac410The email is generated from the template templates/mailworkflowtransition.tmpl
I don't know why it doesn't generate a clickable link for the %WIKINAME% has moved %WEB%.%TOPIC% to %TARGET_STATE%
Ah.... because the mailnotify template builds a link
<a href="%SCRIPTURL{"view"}%/%WEB%/%TOPIC%"><b>%TOPIC%</b></a>
So you could edit the templates/mailworkflowtransition.tmpl and change teh %WEB%.%TOPIC% to the html I just posted.
[03:40]
RiskRewardThanks. I'll give it a go. [03:43]
That seems to work! How do I modify it to be link to other things (i.e. the user's wikipage - %WIKINAME%)? [03:52]
gac410Same thing %WIKINAME% becomes <a href="%SCRIPTURL{"view"}%/%USERSWEB%/%WIKINAME%>%WIKINAME%</a>
or <a href="%SCRIPTURL{"view"}%/%WIKIUSERNAME%>%WIKINAME%</a> (%WIKIUSERNAME% includes the webname when it expands)
[03:54]
RiskRewardFor some reason the emails are being sent as plain text, so the <ahref="..."><b> etc tags are all visible. [04:00]
gac410hm. let me check
Ah... okay sorry about that. Instead of <a href .... just use the %SCRIPTURL{"view"}%/%WIKIUSERNAME% ie eliminate the html markup
%WIKINAME% has moved %WEB%.%TOPIC% to %TARGET_STATE%
%SCRIPTURL{"view"}%/%WIKIUSERNAME% has moved %SCRIPTURL{"view"}%/%WEB%.%TOPIC% to %TARGET_STATE%
It depends on the email client making http://somesite.com a clickable link.
[04:02]
RiskRewardThanks. It's a shame we can't send html emails.
By the way, do you know how to make the appearance of something in a topic conditional on something else (i.e. if/then)?
[04:08]
gac410RiskReward: You could probably send HTML by changing the templates. The MailerContrib sends multipart messages, html and plain.
Look at the mailnotify template.
[04:11]
RiskRewardOK, I'm looking for it now. [04:13]
gac410Look at the System/VarIF help
You can indeed do if / else ... somewhat rudimentary though Simple IF then else
[04:13]
RiskRewardThanks, I'll look it up too. [04:16]
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RiskRewardThanks for all your help gac410. [04:19]
GithubBot[foswiki] FoswikiBot pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/6hbRpg
foswiki/master 7521e37 GeorgeClark: Item9693: Add some missing pieces to docs...
[04:24]
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item9693 [ Item9693: Documentation updates for Foswiki 1.2.0 ] [04:24]
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TarboxOkay, I have 4MB+ of logs that MichaelDaum requested.
What's the preferred format here?
[13:40]
gac410Is there anything sensitive in them? If not, you could upload and attach them to the task. I'd suggest using http://trunk.foswiki.org/Tasks/Item12965 for the upload. (no fastcgi, RCSWrap )
If sensitive, you might try to catch MichaelDaum online and arrange to email them to him directly.
[13:42]
TarboxOh gosh.
There *is* sensitive stuff.
But I can make a set without any.
but not right now. :( Later today maybe.
[13:42]
gac410Michael is the cache guy, so best to work it out with him. [13:43]
TarboxI click create accuont on trunk and get nothing.
just returns to login
[13:45]
gac410Use same credentials as on foswiki.org.
It uses the same password file as foswiki.org. Runs mainly with unknown users
well logged in but no wikiname defined, since trunk main web isn't populated.
[13:45]
TarboxStrange.
the pw change I made yesterday... probabl yI screwed something up.
had to reset
[13:47]
gac410btw, trunk.foswiki.org has the cache enabled,
Updates from foswiki.org don't fire the cache updates on trunk, so you need to click the "get a fresh copy" ... .I forever am forgetting that.
Everything *should* be clean on the password file side. let me know if you have any troubles.
[13:47]
TarboxGot it.
But they've drafted me for other duties. Gonna have to come back to this.
[13:50]
gac410okay. np. thanks.
ping gmc, are you around?
[13:50]
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Hm, *this* is surprising. <nop>WikiWord%BR% not only escapes the WikiWord, It escapes the macro. the %BR% is displayed :o
No it doesn't. Dumb typo. Have to actually put the BR where you intended it :P
[14:15]
dutchiehi, having some trouble with %SEARCH% and forms. Here's what i've got: http://pastebin.com/uNkb1Q2a. Unless I'm mistaken, this should give me a list of all topics with a ProjectForm where Active is set to Y. But it doesn't match anything
i've tried all sorts of different queries and can't get it to work
I can get all the topics with a ProjectForm of any kind, but not just the Active ones
[14:18]
gac410Try putting quotes around the ProjectForm.Active, or remove them from around the 'Y' [14:19]
dutchieif i remove them from the 'Y' I get a load of seemingly unrelated topics
other permutations just give me nothing
[14:21]
gac410hm Sorry, i'm not the best with forms and query search. Let me look a bit [14:22]
JulianLevensdutchie try scope="text" [14:25]
dutchienope [14:26]
gac410hm. how about just "Active = 'Y'" None of our query searches in Tasks web use qualified field names [14:26]
dutchieaha that's got it
thanks!
[14:27]
gac410You should be able to qualify the field, not sure why that's not working. hm...
Is your form "enabled" in the WebPreferences?
[14:27]
dutchieyes [14:36]
gac410I have no idea then. What you used initially is consistent with the examples and I don't see why it didn't work. Maybe someone else will see something and comment later. [14:38]
dutchieyeah, that's why i was confused
it's working now at least
[14:39]
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GithubBot[foswiki] FoswikiBot pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/ACxt4Q
foswiki/master 86715a0 GeorgeClark: Item9693: Further clarify blocking links & macros...
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JulianLevensdutchie could you pastebin a couple of topics (raw text) that contain the data you're querying? [15:20]
dutchiehttp://pastebin.com/uNkb1Q2a
er
not sure what happened there
what i had typed before pasting that link destroyed it all was:
well i'm only querying on the form, and I posted that up already at that pastebin link
(it's grown a couple more fields now though: http://pastebin.com/cDuHZqxV
)
[15:22]
gac410dutchie: If you view a topic with url param ?raw=all then you'll see the metadata that you are querying against. That might be helpful too. [15:27]
JulianLevensOK I can see the DataForm layout, I need to see some topics that contain the actual data and ?raw=all and gac410 suggests\ [15:28]
dutchiehttp://pastebin.com/qDYyu8h7
as it's working now my main conern is migrating all of the existing topics to using forms rather than just in the topic
[15:29]
JulianLevensActually I have an idea, can your try this query: "form.name ~ 'ProjectForm' and ProjectForm.Active = 'Y' "
So, you have many existing topics that contain the data you want, and you need to convert them en masse to move that data into a DataForm?
[15:31]
dutchieit's a bit more involved than that; we're looking to standardise the data and it's generally a bit of a mess
trying that query now
no matche
s
[15:34]
gac410Ah.... The form name is qualified with the web. You might need to use the exact name in your queries. Try form.name = 'Engineering.ProjectForm'
Checking our Tasks web, %META:FORM{name="ItemTemplate"}% doesn't include the web name.
[15:36]
dutchiei think i tried that one already [15:37]
gac410hm. okay. I've exhausted my ideas. [15:38]
JulianLevensActually gac410 I think the form name should not include the Web qualifier. I think something very similar came up at the last release meeting [15:38]
gac410In the metadata? or in the query? [15:38]
dutchiethe docs suggest doing "form.name ~ '*.ProjectForm'" [15:39]
JulianLevensIn the metadata
try that dutchie it's worth a try
[15:39]
dutchieooo that works
as does = 'Engineering.ProjectForm'
[15:41]
JulianLevensGood, that I believe is the better syntax
gac410: http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item10484 seems related to me
[15:42]
gac410yes I think that's it, though even with Crawford's feedback, I still find it confusing :( [15:44]
JulianLevensI have the same problem :(
I'm really not sure that the form name in the META:DATA should have the web qualification
[15:45]
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dutchie which Foswiki version are you running on? [16:37]
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gac410: form means the same as META:FORM, so to test if a topic has a form named 'UserForm' you test for "form.name ~ '*.UserForm'"
That's from the QuerySearch docs and it's wrong
It is valid to have META:FORM{name="UserForm"} in some forms and META:FORM{name="MyWeb.UserForm"} and the intent is to find either
But the form.name ~ '*.UserForm' will find the latter but not the former. That's because it would require META:FORM{name=".UserForm"} to match
I think when dutchie tried a search with just Active='Y' then SEARCH would have found any topic with a formfield named 'Active' and would not care about the form name
[16:56]
When he was trying ProjectForm.Active the parser cannot assume that ProjectForm is a formfield reference (context sensitivity?). When the form.name is provided in the query then it can presumably resolve the DataForm definition and then recognize ProjectForm.Active as a formfield reference and the query works
Please check my thinking though
[17:07]
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gac410JulianLevens: That does sound very reasonable. It does sound like the docs need some tweaking. [18:00]
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RiskRewardHi, is anyone available to answer some Foswiki plugin questions? [22:59]

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