#foswiki 2014-09-08,Mon

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WhoWhatWhen
SvenDowideitis someone making a git-store?
I just came across `git notes`, and thought of you :)
[00:17]
gac410not that I've heard of recently. [00:18]
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RiskRewardHi, does anyone have a moment to explain how the Tasks form on Foswiki.org creates topics that automatically increment? I've found the line <input type="hidden" name="topic" value="ItemAUTOINC1" />, but when I use it my new topic is just called "ItemAUTOINC!"?
Oops, spoke to soon, it DID correctly name the topic. Wow, how about that!
[01:45]
gac410Yup. See http://foswiki.org/System/TemplateTopics#Automatically_generated_topic_names [01:46]
RiskRewardThat's a great entry, thanks gac410. Just when I thought I knew all the documentation :) [01:52]
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uebera||gac410: Thanks a lot for the pointers. I'll have a look at this tonight. [03:23]
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gac410sure uebera|| ... have a good night all [03:41]
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ChanServ sets mode: +o MichaelDaum [06:15]
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ChanServ sets mode: +o MichaelDaum [06:31]
MichaelDaumwrt implementing a git store: I still wonder how to use git in a multi-user environment as a web app is. git seems more tailored towards a single user operating on the repo. it is not able to cope with concurrent changes.
this is an old discussion we had here on the channel
it led to the question of how to organize webs and topics when mapping them onto a repository structure
(1) one monolithic repo for all of the site (2) one repo per web (3) one repo per topic
of course you can have concurrent checkins to independent repositories
... which would lead to choosing a solution as in (3)
however (3) seems out for a couple of reasons
for one loss of history when moving content between repositories
... which in effect seems to rule out (2) as well
in both cases (2) and (3) you'd also loose one big advantage: reverting renames that affect content all over the site as part of a WikiWord rewrite
from that perspective (1) seems to be most attractive.
however this seems to require to linearize all checkins done concurrently on the site
this could in theory cause a serious performance problem. I am not sure this problem shows up that soon in practice. Probably not on small-to-medium size wikis.
this all under the premise that git can't cope with operations hitting it concurrently.
in any case linearizing changes is a necessity on (1) -- either performed by git itself internally or by a web app layer above it.
baseline: there is a trade-off between controlling (i.e. reverting) global changes and concurrent changes
added to the scale any other benefits that a git store would offer (ease of replication etc)
when do you think will it outweigh requiring linearizing changes across all of the site?
[06:45]
jastI think git is overkill for this kind of application. if you have one repo for all of the site, and there's no way to combine changes to several topics into one semantically meaningful commit, merging and the like become essentially meaningless [07:08]
MichaelDaumy
I don't think (independent) changes to several topics should make up one commit
the foremost goal should be to replace rcs with something available easily on lots of platforms
PlainStore seems to be a good approach
even for txt files presumably
PlainFileStoreContrib
this seems to be an obvious step forward
... for a low-dependencies install
[07:13]
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jastyeah [07:42]
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MichaelDaumshould we convert to markdown once it gets a specification: http://commonmark.org/ [10:09]
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JulianLevens1Ref running with taint mode: Question552
In practice we've been running production without taint mode since 2009 at least
If you need to test for taint mode in any code please note the ${^TAINT} variable available from perl 5.8 (FW Base level is 5.8.8 iirc)
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JakeFromStateFarIf there's a site moderator, please add a hint to the Virtual Appliance download, all you need to do to fix the site if you update it to Ubuntu 14.04 is rename the virtual cost file to .conf
conf not cost*
[12:28]
gac410JakeFromStateFar: Are you talking about http://foswiki.org/Support/VirtualMachineImages ? What virtual appliance download? [12:30]
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justenHi guys,
Someone use TSE MAC in u-boot with mSGDMA?
[12:59]
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gac410justen: Are you in the right forum? I have no idea what you just asked. [13:27]
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TarboxSo if no taint mode is reasonably okay, is there a fast way to turn it off globally? [14:32]
jastin bin/*, in the first line replace -wT with -w [14:41]
Tarboxjust in the bin directory? [14:42]
jastalso the tools dir to be safe, I guess
that'll affect cronjobs and the like
[14:42]
TarboxThat's good. I was worried it'd be the whole tree. [14:54]
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jastnah [15:13]
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gac410Tarbox If you use FastCGI then you need the latest http://foswiki.org/Extensions/Testing/FastCGIEngineContrib [15:32]
TarboxWotsit change? [15:32]
gac410The old version insists on enabling -T when it starts / respawns the backend. MichaelDaum fixed it.
Even with all the -T options removed from the bin scripts, you'll discover ( from ps aux) that the foswiki.fcgid tasks have -wT on them.
Lynnwood was fighting with it the other day, turns out MichaelDaum had fixed it.
[15:32]
TarboxCuriosity, how much performance increase is this? [15:34]
gac410Others have suggested 10% improvement. [15:35]
Lynnwoodmorning gac410 - heard my name called just now (and saw late last night you had pinged me)
i did see MichaelDaum comments.
[15:35]
gac410yeah. MichaelDaum reported that he had fixed FastCGIEngineContrib ... disabling taint moe.
mode
[15:35]
LynnwoodBut that was recent fix he checked in, correct? [15:36]
gac410Yes. But if you are running the Extension zipfile, you won't have it. You need Extensions/Testing [15:36]
Lynnwoodright [15:36]
gac410That's why the git source doesn't show the -T ... fixed in git but not released to Extensions [15:36]
Lynnwoody. I’m glad he figured away to intervene with fgcid to force non-taint [15:37]
gac410Checkins are here: https://github.com/foswiki/FastCGIEngineContrib/tree/Item13010 [15:38]
JakeFromStateFargac410 yes I was, however I am still having issues with WebRSS and WebAtom, not sure if it was 14.04 so I reverted to a snapshot of 12.04 and same issue :( [15:42]
gac410What's the issue with rss / atom feeds? [15:43]
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JakeFromStateFargac410 http://pastebin.com/tyNe9QNV [15:59]
gac410Ah... down in ldap mapper somewhere. :( Unfortunately I don't have ldap facilities available here.
And its only the Rss searches that fail. not a regular search? Strange. The rss/atom pages are just a plain old search, iirc, but using a special skin.
[16:00]
JakeFromStateFarWebChanges does the same thing
AND so does sandbox...huh
Regular search (top right corner) works fine.
[16:04]
gac410Sounds like something in Search has gotten messed up. Sandbox page also has an embedded %SEARCH macro.
What changed that triggered all this?
[16:06]
JakeFromStateFarI'm not sure, I will have to back-trace it as much as I can. [16:07]
gac410MichaelDaum probably knows ldap best but he just left. [16:09]
TarboxWhat's happening exactly?
Ldap and search are my two best friends, although that doesn't mean I know enough to help.
[16:09]
JakeFromStateFar{UserMappingManager} Foswiki::Users::TopicUserMapping
Seems to do the trick
it was LdapUserMapping
[16:13]
gac410Did you have ldap mapping set up and running with a valid ldap configuration & accounts? [16:17]
JakeFromStateFaryes everything else was working, and it seems to continue to work as expected. [16:18]
gac410Even with the ldap mapper disabled. Something seems really strange. [16:19]
JakeFromStateFarI'm very new to Foswiki (and twiki) so I really have little knowledge of what the differences are in the plugin. [16:19]
gac410Well Ldap mapping says that foswiki is dipping into your ldap server to map login names to wiki names, etc. Generally if you use Ldap, then you are not going to use local mapping (ie WikiUsers topic) [16:20]
JakeFromStateFarHmm, the one change I found is my wikiname change from the common name to the login name. [16:25]
TarboxLdap does that. [16:25]
JakeFromStateFarare there required group mappings? I currently only map the AdminGroup [16:26]
TarboxThere shouldn't be. I don't even map admingroup [16:26]
JakeFromStateFarTarbox do you do any {Ldap}{RewriteGroups} [16:27]
Tarboxno
oh bah
I currently have a setup where bin/configure is botched
I've got an authoritative Ldap setup
no map, no rewrite, no merge.
or wait I do have map
I do have users on my exclude list
[16:27]
JakeFromStateFarHmm, WikiName is not working at all.
with Ldap or Topic mapping
[16:38]
Hey, working now, Thanks Tarbox/gac410
I'm using LdapMapping, but not using WikiGroups, only LDAP Groups
Now to figure out permissions :)
[16:49]
GitHubBot[FoswikiOrgPlugin] gac410 pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/yD5h1w
FoswikiOrgPlugin/master c3a057c George Clark: Item11267: Add support for Item specific branches....
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gac410MichaelDaum (for the logs) ... ItemBranchCheckins now supported. And I re-delivered the checkins for FastCGIEngineContrib, so the tasks are updated.
You can "catch up" the tasks by going to the settings for the repository, Find the responses that said "Branch not supported" and click "Redeliver" link for each of them.
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GithubBot[distro] gac410 pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/bBsXKQ
distro/master c9c79e5 George Clark: Item11267: Add verbose options, disabled...
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JakeFromStateFarSorry if this has been asked, but I am looking for a way to have a centralized database of Subnets, and assign then to clients, each client would have its own page with a combination of data sourced from other pages, as well as it's on specific information, you can add things like a hosts to subnets. [19:30]
TarboxWhen you say subnets and hosts, it implies you want something like http://foswiki.org/Extensions/VirtualHostingContrib but then you talk about them having their own page with data sourced from other pages and it puts me in doubt. [19:34]
gac410Hm. http://foswiki.org/Extensions/HomePagePlugin can do it by domain in the url, But nothing by client IP address [19:38]
TarboxBy *client* IP address?
Are you using apache? Possibly their rewrite engine.
grap whichever ip address you're interested in and rewrite the URL to something HomePagePlugin then sends to where you need? Maybe that's too convoluted, maybe there's a way to do it with just the rewrite engine.
Although I suspect trying to twig off of client ip address can only lead to tears in the long run.
Clients would have their pages disappear just becaue they switched providers.
[19:39]
JakeFromStateFarhold on
Let me be more generic.
I have a page that has all information pertaining to a client, Logins, Services, Locations.
I want to be able to find all clients by Service
and all services a client has
or 'Subscribes to'
Subscriptions can change, and clients can become inactive, but never leave.
because client history must be retained.
[19:42]
TarboxYou're getting into WikiApplication programming. [19:47]
JakeFromStateFarYes. [19:47]
Tarboxokay.
hold on
[19:47]
JakeFromStateFarbut it can be simple tables/queries
Thanks Tarbox
[19:47]
Tarboxwell if I can find the links you can define a form which is essentially a row definition
and then there's a contrib that lets you search pages like they're a table.
[19:48]
JakeFromStateFarthat sounds like the direction I am looking for.
So far forms confuse me a little bit in foswiki
[19:49]
Tarboxhttp://foswiki.org/Extensions/OpenSourceProjectInAWebContrib is the go to source for good examples.
http://foswiki.org/System/DataForms is the reference.
At the very bottom of that second one is searching in form data
but there's also http://foswiki.org/Extensions/DBCachePlugin
And maybe someone else can pop up to explain it better because that may be the limit of my understanding right there.
[19:49]
JakeFromStateFarAre you aware of any regex text validation/jscript that can be added to any of these items? [19:52]
TarboxYou're welcome to write anything you want in javascript and attach it to the page.
I feel like there almost has to be serverside regex, possibly in %CALC
but I'm more than a little junior with Foswiki
[19:52]
JakeFromStateFarhmm, ok I'll give this a shot, thanks for your help. [19:53]
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TarboxSeeing, I dunno, 50% speed improvements from the switch to no-taint. Or so. [20:23]
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calebsgjjj
Hello?
So, I will assume that someone will see this. I have a question. Lately we had an issue crop up where in our wiki, we click on the manage link on a large attachment (over 30MB) and we get the error of 504 Gateway timeout. However, it seems to work fine on files smaller than 10MB, this just cropped up on Friday night.. Anyone have any ideas?
[21:04]
TarboxCould be coming from a variety of different places.
Apache can be set up to time out on scripts
If you're using FastCGI I know the default set up times out after 40 seconds
[21:08]
calebsgok ...not sure why a timeout when it's just loading another page [21:10]
TarboxWell I'm not sure what you mean by the manage link
Possibly because I use NatSkin
[21:11]
calebsgthat's interesting...but at the bottom of the page when I click 'Attachments' it gives the list of attachments. Beside each one is 'manage' which hyperlinks to a page for updating the attachment [21:15]
TarboxYeah. I tried reverting back to pattern skin just to help you and that link doesn't work at all for me.
give me a second though I think I'm on to something.
[21:15]
calebsgHuh. Waddoyaknow [21:15]
Tarboxwell in my case I'm on a mix of code that probably isn't healthy. [21:16]
calebsglol [21:16]
Tarboxwhat's the extension on the files?
Well the bottom line is I think something on that page is scanning the file for whatever reason and the scan is forcing the timeout because the file is so big.
If it's only 50MB maybe try it on foswiki.org/Sandbox/
see if they get the same error.
[21:18]
calebsg_interesting. I'll try that. Any suggestions where to look in the back end for logs/diagnostics? [21:22]
TarboxAll the errors are piped to stderr. Apache routes that to your error log in /var/log/apache2 [21:22]
calebsg_ok thanks Tarbox [21:24]
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RiskRewardHi Pharvey, are you online? [23:04]
pharveyyes, good morning [23:08]
RiskRewardGood morning to you. I've been setting up a wiki to manage the documentation we need for ISO9001 and ISO13485 compliance. I'm including the ability to generate records (via dataforms)... [23:09]
pharveycool [23:10]
RiskRewardI'd like to pilot the site with a small group of people from my team, but of course it's not quite ready...
I've been thinking of ways to run a site in parallel that I can break, then update the working changes to the alpha site...
And of course I thought about your experiments on the TRIM wiki using Git...
[23:10]
pharveyTRIN*, yes I see where you're going :) [23:11]
RiskRewardI'm quite keen to learn Git, but didn't want to dive in until we'd talked. What are your thoughts? For your reference... [23:12]
pharveya big factor for using git in TRIN is that we were already using git for other things
being able to quickly diff topics in data/ was good, especially developing & testing plugins which had beforeSaveHandlers and so on
I would hesitate to recommend the setup I was using, it was quite cumbersome and you may not get enough reward out of it
[23:12]
RiskRewardI see. I feel like git has potential for other uses for us too, but because most of our work is on big binary files, I'll need an opportunity to play with it first to see how it can be integrated. [23:14]
pharveyother methods of snapshotting/testing might be more appropirate
bbiab
[23:14]
RiskRewardOK, see you soon.
For your reference when you get back, our foswiki\pub folder is currently only 65Mb (i.e. not 180Gb like TRIN's)
[23:14]
pharveyat TRIN we were messing with the Foswiki core and plugin code a lot. So we ran parallel installations which shared the same physical data/ and pub/ dirs
automating new foswiki installations was important in that situation
if you're mostly working on DataForm stuff/WikiApps, and you want to continue developing dashboards/reports/etc without impacting users
the best way is probably to make your WikiApps parameterized as possible (using %VARS% and * Set VARs)
then you can have a Foo/Testing subweb where you develop those DataForms/dashboards
or a Foo/Dashboard (prod) and Foo/DashboardTest (test)
[23:23]
RiskRewardYeah, sounds sensible. [23:27]
pharveythe other thing we did was selective symlinking of only certain webs into a particular dev environment off the live environment
so the dev environment would have data/Foo webs that "symlinked in" the live server
but other webs would be their own separate copies that we were developing
I hated working that way though, tried to avoid it
I don't know the status of PlainFileStoreContrib these days but I'd give it some consideration before you go versioning the RCS Topic.txt,v files in an SCM like git
[23:27]
RiskRewardMmm. I think if I let go of the "this would be a cool opportunity to learn git", and actually focus on what I need to achieve, then your suggestion of parametising and using subwebs for testing is probably the best way to go. [23:29]
pharveyI liked the disaster-recovery aspect of the "commit everything to git" setup I described in the document I wrote about TRIN
there were a few occasions where I was able to use it to undo some damage users had done accidentally (usually SearchReplacePlugin)
[23:32]
RiskRewardYes, I like that aspect of it too. [23:33]
pharveybut for dev/testing, parameterized wiki-apps are the way to go IMHO
dev/testing of wiki-apps I should say
[23:33]
RiskRewardOK then. I'll give it a go. Thanks for your advice. [23:35]
pharveyparameterized wiki-apps depend on not renaming your formfield names though, so keep that in mind when designing your DataForms :)
otherwise users of the Test version will mangle the data for the Prod version :)
[23:35]
RiskRewardYeah, I think I've seen that already. Made me nervous (made me think hard about backups). [23:36]
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socfocuswhere is the wiki user statistics to see contributions for say a given month or does this have to be setup manually?? [23:57]

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