#foswiki 2014-11-19,Wed

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WhoWhatWhen
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foswiki_irc6I have an installation of foswiki 1.1.9 at dreamhost just just stopped rendering correctly. An earlier version 1.1.8 on the same host is fine. No code changes!!! [03:53]
gac410"just stopped" You didn't change anything? [03:54]
foswiki_irc6The one no working is wiki.wedgeblade.net, whereas the older version wiki1.wedgeblade.net is fine.
Didn't stop, just renders wrong. Have a look at wiki.wedgeblade.net
I wonder if something changed in Dreamhost's environment, but configure gives no clues
[03:55]
gac410You are getting a 403 from the server: You don't have permission to access /pub/System/PatternSkinTheme/jquery-ui.css
So either permissions or ownership changed on the pub/ directory, or the apache config changed.
Look at the page with the debug panel on firefox - Net tab - it shows you all the 403 messages for every pub/ request
[03:57]
foswiki_irc6Thanks. I don't think permissions changed, but maybe Dreamhost's apache did. [03:59]
gac410Do you configure with .htaccess files? I'm not familiar with dreamhost config. [04:00]
foswiki_irc6yes, it's a shared host, I use .htaccess. But there have been NO changes of any files, just noticed the problem today.
Can yopu give me an idea of what to ask Dreamhost about Apache?
[04:02]
gac410I'd double-check your .htaccess file in pub, and then tell them the server is giving 403 messages.
Single url: https://wiki.wedgeblade.net/pub/System/PatternSkinTheme/jquery-ui.css as an example
[04:04]
foswiki_irc6OK. The setup right now is a backup, I am changing it back now ... [04:04]
gac410There is probably a config issue as well, as the 403 also causes a 404. Probably the ErrorDocument directive is not valid. [04:05]
foswiki_irc6Just changed back to the original files from the backup, behavior is the same. Thanks for your help. I will narrow down the errors. Does wiki1.wedgeblade.net look OK?
What configuration problem would cause 1.1.9 to fail but 1.1.8 to be OK???
[04:07]
gac410it's probably on the apache side. Typically it's a file permissions / ownership issue for pub, Or the config is denying direct read by the server.
wkik1 looks fine. No errors in the page view.
[04:09]
foswiki_irc6Sorry for being stupid, could you tell me exactly how to use firefox debug panel?
I think I found it undser developer. In console I see "jQuery is not defined"
[04:12]
gac410Tools -> Web Developer -> Inspector Then look at the Net panel. It will show all the requests and responses. [04:15]
foswiki_irc6You have been enormously helpful, I really appreciate it!!! [04:16]
gac410sure. good luck with it. [04:16]
foswiki_irc6Thanks. I just saved to chat for further cogitation. Late here in Houston, turning in now. Where are you? [04:19]
gac410Boston area ... even later :) [04:19]
foswiki_irc6OK! Good night, really! And thanks again! [04:20]
gac410sure, glad to help.
you're welcome. g'night
[04:20]
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JulianLevensCDot, MichaelDaum: please check-out Item13100 and related http://foswiki.org/Development/StoresShouldBePassedConfigHash
I really want to complete work on the StoreTools (includes a better store copy) I been developing and I need some feedback first
[07:56]
CDotThanks Julain. I'm not going to be able to do much with chuck-it-over-the-wall partial patch, sadly :-(
Happy to review fixes checked in to core, however.
CDot has his work cut out with all the other things he has to do for 1.2
[07:57]
JulianLevensIt was agreed we need a better and thoroughly tested copy_store in the release meeting and that's what I'm working on
What the core lacks is any concept of managing two configs at once; but the tool will need to do just that
Actually forget it, it's a contrib and can do what it likes as long as core is unaffected. However, there are much better ways to do this with core support
[07:59]
CDotJulianLevens: why {StoreConfig{VersaPlain} and not {Extensions}{VersaPlain}?
Hmmm, on that note {RCS} ought to be moved into the {Extensions}{RCSStoreContrib} namespace
Oh, I think I see why you think "seperate configs" are needed. it's because you subclass PlainFileStore, right? And you want to configure the subclass differently to how the superclass is configured?
[08:06]
JulianLevensY [08:10]
CDot^superclass^stand-alone class
I really don't think that's necessary.
you will never have them cohabiting in the same FW instance
we *did* think about multiple stores once, but there are many, many other reasons why that can't work
and certainly won't work for 1.2
[08:10]
JulianLevensDuring copy_store it's possible to copy from PlainFile to PlainFile [08:11]
CDotyes [08:11]
JulianLevensWith different configs [08:11]
CDotbut in that case you can use local %Foswiki::cfg
http://perldoc.perl.org/functions/local.html
basically copy_store has to copy from "Foswiki::cfg version A" to "Foswiki::cfg version B"
we have to maintain separation of other things besides the store (such as plugins)
CDot is thinking on his feet, so if this hasn't been discussed before, that's why)
[08:11]
JulianLevensYes I've realised that: different ACL options and pref implementations are not strictly store but are likely connected [08:15]
CDot$ perl copy_store.pl -from /var/www/old_foswiki -to /var/www/www/new_foswiki
i.e. maintain complete separation between the instances
[08:15]
JulianLevensI think you also need to support:
$ perl copy_store.pl -from LocalSite.cfg -to NewSite.cfg
[08:16]
CDotisn't that the same thing? [08:17]
JulianLevensi.e converting existing instance to use new store [08:17]
CDotconversion-in-place will always be very dangerous
what happens if the server crashes halfway through the conversion?
then you have to think about recoveiring a half-converted server
[08:17]
JulianLevensIf you are copying a Store then the source should be read only [08:18]
CDotwhereas if you maintain complete separation, that isn't an issue (just bin the new copy; the original is still pristine) [08:18]
JulianLevensI've been copying to a DB store there should be no risk to the source (a requirement even if with full separation) [08:19]
CDotyeah, but you are making assumptions about the store impl [08:20]
JulianLevensSimilarly I've copied from data to pfdata [08:20]
CDotlet's say (for example) I want to copy from RCS store version 999 to an RCS store version 1000
the copy-in-place also inherently requires the complexity of Item13100 (multiple store configs in a single instance)
where copy from-to doesn't - it should be do-able with the existing core code
[08:20]
JulianLevensThat's the same problem. I can instantiate multiple Foswiki instances whether they have full separation of partial (probably new store only) [08:23]
CDotyou can or you can't? [08:24]
JulianLevensI appreciate I can copy config-A to $Foswiki::cfg; then call Foswiki-A store etc; then copy config-B to $Foswiki::cfg then call Foswiki-B store etc
Actually, the core will not let me instantiate two independent FW (in the same perl script) there are various globals around
[08:24]
CDotsuch as?
CDot thought he had eliminated them all
the unit tests instantiate multiple FW configs all the time (albeit not simultaneously) so the globals had to be handled for that
[08:26]
JulianLevensMaybe that just feels ugly
I'm not sure of the performance hit: I'll need to switch FW instances between thousands of calls to copy stores
[08:28]
CDotnot a problem; they would be co-existant
the switch could be done through a "switch" function that simply dispatches calls to the appropriate session
[08:30]
JulianLevensI'll look at unit tests that do this; so any come to mind?
s/so/do
[08:31]
CDotunit test sessions don't co-exist
the session is regulrly renewed with createNewSession, however
I think that's part of FoswikiTestCase
UnitTestContrib/test/unit/FoswikiTestCase.pm
[08:32]
JulianLevensThanks
Hmm, I'll need to think about, but it sounds like a rabbit hole for me at the moment; but I could be wrong
[08:33]
CDotactually, I think it's pretty simple [08:36]
JulianLevensOK; I'll I have a look around [08:36]
CDotyou just have to think "I'm not going to modify either Foswiki instance; how do I maintain high level separation?"
and that means 'local' and separate %A and %B versions of %Foswiki::cfg
so your "site" instance contains (at least) a $session and a %Foswiki::cfg that get switched on when that instance is called
[08:36]
JulianLevensI've been learning lots of stuff recently: so I'm going 'Oh no not again!' possibly too easily [08:40]
***MichaelDaum changes topic to: 19 Nov: Happy Birthday, Foswiki. You Rock! Todays log: http://tinyurl.com/7atzrpz - Next Release Meeting Monday 17 November, 1300Z at #foswiki-release: http://tinyurl.com/mf4egh2 [08:42]
CDotJulianLevens: learning is good :-) [08:42]
JulianLevensIt's even enjoyable; but you do need breaks for your head to catch up
I am concerned about taking weeks out to learn stuff instead of getting things done
Of course; long term really knowing my stuff will accelerate my work
Anyway; I've started looking at code
[08:45]
***MichaelDaum changes topic to: 19 Nov is Foswiki's 6th anniversary. Keep on rocking! Todays log: http://tinyurl.com/7atzrpz - Next Release Meeting Monday 17 November, 1300Z at #foswiki-release: http://tinyurl.com/mf4egh2
MichaelDaum changes topic to: Today is Foswiki's 6th anniversary. Keep on rocking! Todays log: http://tinyurl.com/7atzrpz - Next Release Meeting Monday 17 November, 1300Z at #foswiki-release: http://tinyurl.com/mf4egh2
MichaelDaum changes topic to: Today is Foswiki's 6th anniversary. Keep on rocking! Channel logs: http://tinyurl.com/7atzrpz - Next Release Meeting Monday 1 Dec, 1300Z at #foswiki-release: http://tinyurl.com/mf4egh2
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jastgood grief, I just discovered a wiki topic with a >20 MB ,v file. retrieving a version from it takes >1sec
at least it's not on a public wiki
[09:40]
CDotjast: zowie! Is that retrieving using Lite or Wrap? [09:42]
jastwrap
using the native tools directly is just as slow
rcsdiff says: retrieving version 1.471 (1 sec wait) retrieving version 1.472 (1 sec wait) [diff]
[09:42]
CDothow many revs? [09:45]
jast~480 [09:45]
CDotbinary or text? [09:45]
jasttext
net topic size is ~300 KB, thanks to supremely deoptimized HTML
the WYSIWYG editor in use in that wiki likes to eliminate whitespace (including line breaks), so containers not touched by WysiwygPlugin are usually on a single line, making the diffs not extremely efficient
but even so, that would explain very old revisions being slow, but not the ones near the 'top'
[09:45]
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JulianLevensHow do you guys use sudo when *developing*: not at all (web-server id=self); add self to web-server group; sudo -i; sudo almost every command or other? [11:30]
GithubBot[distro] cdot pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/AJRtZA
distro/master c56c7de crawford: Item10009: finish the job of separating out the embedded serialiser from Foswiki::Meta
distro/master ae0820a crawford: Item13099: Delegated the PUBURL implementation to the store, and dealt with all the worms that poped up when I did it. PUBURL (and PUBURLPATH) end up being signficantly more functional. Tests in Fn_ICON - no excuse for that, just lazy.
[11:36]
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HenroRitchieHi All. How can I list the atttachments to a topic in a query search result? [12:22]
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jastJulianLevens: I run the web server as me [13:05]
JulianLevensExcept on production/client servers of course [13:06]
jastwell yeah, you asked about development :) [13:06]
JulianLevensI know, I was just thinking how you need to switch modes of working: dev or production. OTOH, you probably have to that anyway at clients which will have their own rules [13:08]
GuilainChello everyone, Just a simple question, is it possible to run foswiki under fcgi with https protocol ? My debian foswiki installation run out of the box both with http or https, but when I switch to fcgi, it refuse to serve with https. I haven't found anything over the web. [13:09]
JulianLevensGuilainC: I believe the answer is yes, I'm pretty sure MichaelDaum has that working [13:12]
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GuilainCthanks I think I have found my mistake : beginners mistake :( thanks JulianLevens for the answers [13:17]
jastyeah, there's a lot of diversity in our deployments... at least they're all on Linux, that helps
and in dev I use pseudo-install a lot, so that's a fairly significant difference right from the start
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gac410JulianLevens: You asked about Sudo? I use apache SuexecUserGroup to have the apache vhost I test with use my own ID for cgi.
The only gotcha is that the bin directory is not allowed symlinks, so I have a small fixbin that changes the links to files.
[14:06]
JulianLevensWhy not just tell apache to run as self:self as jast does? [14:08]
gac410I guess I started with suexec on a prod server, to separate vhost instances into separate users. I hosted some unrelated stuff and didn't want the world owned by apache. [14:09]
JulianLevensI'm trying to work out a method for my dev work on my own laptop that is productive, yet if possible be similar if I need to work on our production box
I'm really working on my linux foo
[14:10]
gac410And that copied over to my testing. Simple enough to add SuexecUserGroup gac users and in my case it's somewhat consistent with my prod system. [14:10]
JulianLevensSounds like that could work for me - except that I'm trying to use nginx ;) [14:13]
gac410hm with nginx, since most work runs under the fcgi process, can't that just run as the local user, and leave nginx on its own id? (just guessing here ... have not done much with nginx) [14:14]
JulianLevensThat makes sense, just need to get the fcgi process up and running :( [14:18]
gac410The little I was testing with nginx, think I just ran a foswiki.fcgi from my shell ... hmm let me try to remember which vm has nginx, my script is there somewhere :) [14:20]
JulianLevensDon't fret about it; I suspect strongly that my set-up was fundmentally borked
That's why I'm now taking time to really learn linux
I was working on 1.2 and testing nginx and AUTOCONFIG; with Michael's help I made progress but realised a lot of issues were elsewhere
[14:20]
gac410I did get autoconfig working on nginx, but I had to use a script to set some ENV variables to help it a bit. And also made code changes to let fcgi survive a missing LSC
But now my vm is booted and I cannot remember my (#*&$@( password
[14:25]
JulianLevensPart of my trick was to pass some ENV variables in the init.d script; and I think that would be acceptable as part of a fix
Push comes to shove we can always ask ngix users to run configure from the command line to initialise; although hopefully we can avoid that
[14:27]
gac410I figured bootstrap was a one-time event, so user would kick off a "special" bootstrap fcgi script to set the env. Not needed once the lsc is saved. [14:30]
JulianLevenszactly [14:30]
gac4104 line script. export HTTP_HOST, PATH_INFO and REQUEST_URI. and the "perl -T foswiki.fcgi -l 127.0.0.1:9001 -n 3
And I modified 2 files bin/foswik.fcgi and lib/Foswiki/Engine/FastCGI.pm
[14:32]
JulianLevensWell getting 1.2 and nginx working is my focus right now [14:34]
gac410significnt change in Engine/FastCGI was in sub run. Added "defined $localSiteCfg to the tests for lastMTime
so if lsc was undefined, it "restarted" after each request.
[14:36]
JulianLevensMichael didn't like some of those changes - don't ask me why
At least not yet
[14:37]
gac410well I didn't check them in. Last I saw he removed the lastMtime check completely, but thats really bad. That means you need to have shell access and kill the foswiki.fcgi tasks if LSC changes.
but he knows more about nginx and fcgi than I do. But I'd really hate to see that we lost the ability to "just work" after lsc changes.
[14:38]
MichaelDaumgac410, reExec is broken under FCGI::ProcManager
as soon as the fastcgi engine tries to do so while there is a request being served
[14:40]
JulianLevensWe'd only lose it for nginx though. It might mean some hosted sites sticking with apache [14:41]
MichaelDaumyou end up with one hanging foswiki.fcgi that blocks any new foswiki-fcgi-pm to start with a "bind failed, address already in use" error message [14:41]
gac410As I said I dont' know much about it. It works fine on foswiki.org under apache anyway. :) [14:41]
MichaelDaumyea right. thats because under apache and lighttpd the thing does not run in FCGI::ProcManager mode
as these http servers manage the lifetime of the foswiki backens by themselves
I was not able to find a properly way to reExec under FCGI::ProcManager up to now
but I'd expect that things get even worse with your bootstrap patch
gac410, I think the problem goes deeper into foswiki
[14:42]
gac410I didn't run into the issue with my very limited nginx testing. but I only tried it once or twice to get a successful bootstrap, [14:43]
MichaelDaumit always thinks that it is serving a request whenever called ... which is not the case when started by a system-init script initially [14:44]
gac410I wanted to capture the complete %ENV environment so I could add a nginx / fcgi simulation to the unit test in TestBootstrapPlugin [14:44]
MichaelDaumbest would be when the FastCGI engine would be able to re-read LSC without respawning all of it
so foswiki worker processes get a new LSC one by one as soon as they finished the previous request
[14:45]
gac410hm The unit test code can recreate Foswiki which rereads LSC I think.
er... maybe not completely reread thoug. Stuff happens in BEGIN block. We'd need to unload Foswiki.pm to get it to really start from scratch.
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In thinkgin about fcgi, the full respawn is quite important I suspect. It's not just LocalSite.cfg, After any perl code change, all you have to do is "touch LocalSite.cfg" to cause fcgi to reload
If we just refreshed LocalSite.cfg, we'd lose the reloading of changed perl modules.
The other refresh is to just kill all the fcgi processes, at least that works on apache. probably not on nginx though
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JulianLevensnginx and apache are choices for any FW admin; as long we document the pros and cons of these servers they can make an informed choice [15:48]
gac410agreed. [15:49]
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[16:31]
gac410Whoohoo Babar comes back. Howdy Babar [16:37]
JulianLevensHi Babar [16:38]
GuilainCis there any possibilities to find all topic which had been created in a specific year ? (using querysearch or other)
in other word how can i get the date of the revision 1 ?
[16:51]
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Tarboxhttp://foswiki.org/Extensions/HistoryPlugin
%HISTORY{format="$date" web="Web" topic="Topic" versions="1"}%
The code for that uses my ( $date, $user, $revout, $comment ) = Foswiki::Func::getRevisionInfo( $web, $topic, $rev );
[17:29]
JulianLevensI think %SEARCH{ type="query" can do that; but it's likely to be slow, current Stores have to unpack revisions one by one to get to rev=1
As a one off is might be OK; if you need a long term performing solution then may need to look at Plugins or wait for 1.2 and PlainFileStore
Oops, must dash
[17:32]
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GuilainCthanks you for your help ! Tarox and JulianLevens [17:35]
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TimWegnerI would like to redirect http to https on my Dreamhost (shared hosting) foswiki site. The HttpsRedirectPlugin doesn't seem to work, and using .htaccess breaks foswiki. Is there another way? [19:38]
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