#foswiki 2015-03-03,Tue

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WhoWhatWhen
Rich_MorinI have a draft page on "Wiki Data Flow" (expandMacros, et al): http://wiki.cfcl.com/Learn/WikiDataFlow?leftbar.x=17&leftbar.y=12&leftbar=Hide Comments solicited. [00:04]
gac410RiskReward: If you want to get rid of them, sure just delete the files. Each topic has 2 files. The .txt file, and the .txt,v file. [00:08]
RiskRewardGreat, thanks. [00:09]
Rich_Moringac410: Can you give me a pointer to the relevant code in Foswik::Render ? [00:20]
gac410sub getRenderedVersion
it's pretty complex.
[00:22]
Rich_MorinI was just hoping for a URL to put in the Resources section of the page... [00:23]
gac410https://github.com/foswiki/distro/blob/master/core/lib/Foswiki/Render.pm#L197 [00:25]
Rich_Moringac410: updated. [00:28]
gac410Only other thing I noticed was you have a link to svn.foswiki.org - our old repository. I wouldn't be surprised if it goes away at some point. [00:31]
Rich_MorinI'd be delighted to have a better link - that was the best I could find [00:32]
gac410You just trying to point to a Foswiki.spec? [00:32]
Rich_MorinWell, some appropriate rendition of that content. [00:32]
gac410https://github.com/foswiki/distro/blob/master/core/lib/Foswiki.spec
The github links i've given you are all for the master branch, (upcoming release 1.2)
[00:32]
Rich_Morinupdated
gac410: Has anything diverged (at this level of description) from TWiki?
[00:37]
gac410I don't think so. Basic macro expansion and rendering is similar. [00:41]
Rich_MorinCool. [00:41]
gac410There may be new handlers, etc. but you are not to that level of detail.
Biggest thing is that twiki is much more monolithic Foswik has split out a lot into separate modules. Quite a bit of internal refactoring that really isn't visible to the user
[00:41]
Rich_Morinupdated [00:49]
gac410Foswiki is much more dependent upon javascript, and lots of embedded jquery. Foswiki 1.2 isn't going to function very well at all without javascript. BTW we're getting really close to needing alpha & beta testers. 1.2 is in real good shape. no serious blockers.
If you guys have time to test, you can get nightly builds from http://foswiki.org/Download/NightlyBuilds Very different install & initial configuration hopefully will be a lot easier.
As soon as we get a little more translation done, we'll build a beta.
[00:54]
Rich_MorinVickiBrown is our Foswiki admin and local expert on this stuff. I've passed along your notes. [00:58]
gac410Anyone interested in translation of Foswiki: http://foswiki.org/Development/TranslationUserInterface We need help!
Register on http://translate.foswiki.org. Recommended to have github & foswiki.org accounts for checkin credit.
Is Vicki around? Her task about printing slideshows: http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13281 I can't get it to print any more than the 1st page so I have no idea how to investigate the printing situation.
Is there an example presentation on your cfcl website that demonstrates the issue?
Tarbox What GuilainC said. Macros are ONLY ever set in the base or primary topic.
Tarbox: There is some docs about preference settings and includes here: http://foswiki.org/System/PreferenceSettings#Preference_settings_and_topic_revision_history
[00:59]
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Rich_Moringac410: V sez try http://wiki.cfcl.com/BAAPT/SocialMediaUse?slideshow=on;skin=slideshow#GoSlide1 [01:17]
gac410okay yeah I see what you mean. The slideshow on 1.2 is very very different - completely javascript based. I can't get it to print more than one page. [01:20]
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Rich_MorinV sez: It really does need to be printable. :-( (FWIW, I agree.) [01:26]
gac410yeah I don't know. The Foswiki 1.x slideshow plugin had some maint issues iirc. It was completely rewritten for foswiki 1.2. Neither were my particular area of expertise, and now with javascript rendering, I'm even less capable. [01:28]
Rich_MorinIf the old one has features (albeit buggy) that the new one does not, perhaps the new one should be made available in a way that allows both to be installed and either to be used...
different isn't always better, but better is always different...
[01:30]
gac410It's one of those things that needs developers. I'll have to ask MichaelDaum. ArthurClemens rewrote it for 1.2, but left the project. I believe Michael did another upgrade / rewrite. [01:32]
The old plugin is really awful. Generates the pages by manually spacing out <p></p><br /> lines over and over to space down to the next slide. I'm not surprised that it doesn't print correctly.
The old plugin could probably put a <p><!-- pagebreak --></p> as the last line of each page
[01:37]
RiskRewardHi, I'd like to have a custom search page where I can format the output of the search. How would you do that? [01:46]
gac410Rich_Morin: I have a patch for the old plugin that generates page breaks. There are lots of blank pages however due to all the filler <p></p><br /> blank lines [01:48]
Rich_Morin: I attached a fix for Vicki to try to http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13281
For the new one on 1.2, I have not a clue how to accomplish printing. Needs a javascript wiz
[01:55]
Rich_Morintnx! [01:56]
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RiskRewardDon't worry about my question from earlier. I've viewed the text on System.WebSearch and can modify that to suit. Sweet! [02:13]
gac410Hi RiskReward sorry. there are lots of examples. especially in the Foswik.org Tasks web. All our task searches [02:14]
RiskRewardYes, I'm looking into them. Thanks. [02:15]
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MichaelDaumjast, will you be able to come to Amsterdam? http://foswiki.org/Community/FoswikiCamp2015
I've added a few more sprint ideas to http://foswiki.org/Community/FoswikiCamp2015Discussion
[10:47]
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jastI don't know yet... I'll have to check with the higher-ups [11:32]
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MichaelDaumjast, your girlfriend? [11:58]
jastnah [11:58]
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TarboxGuilainC, thank you for the advice from yesterday. When you say query, do you mean DBQUERY? I have the topic OneWeb.OneTopic that says %INCLUDE{"OtherTopic"}%, and OtherTopic has %TOPICTITLE{"ThirdTopic" web="OtherWeb"}% and when you view OtherTopic directly you get ThirdTopic's title, but when you view OneTopic it's replaced with the literal string "OneWeb" Neither OneTopic nor OtherTopic have any other text. [13:01]
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***ChanServ sets mode: +o gac410 [14:06]
GuilainCI'm not familliar with topictitle, which is If I'm not wrong, come from dbcacheplugin
so i mean, retriving by dbquery, let me check the docu
[14:08]
TarboxIt does. I was excited when I saw it because I thought it meant I wouldn't have to puzzle out a dbquery. [14:09]
GuilainCok, then to be clear, include is as simple as copy/past code
but only from the topic
[14:10]
Tarbox... that's not clear. Include what where? [14:11]
GuilainCnon any structured or prefs on this topic (include all the topic is equivalent of copy/paste when you make a raw=on)
ok, taking two topic : M and I
I is the Included in Main
ok ?
[14:11]
Tarboxyes [14:12]
GuilainCdo you know the raw function (the one which you call when you click on view wiki text at the bottom) [14:13]
TarboxYes. [14:13]
GuilainCok, so, include is as make a copy/paste of the raw=on output
you've topic and nothing else
[14:14]
Tarboxto you? [14:14]
GuilainCjust the "core" of the topic (core is not an official word, is come from me)
so include I in M is like copy/paste raw=on
[14:15]
Tarboxyes okay I get it now. [14:15]
GuilainCif you look for topictitle
you will not find it in the raw=on (so in the core of the topic)
so you can't get it by including the topic I in M
you have to make a query (I think, there probably a quickest way, but i don't think so) on the I topic from the M topic
dbquery is good
[14:16]
TarboxI'm using parameters in topictitle to force it to check a particular topic for topictitle [14:17]
GuilainChum, please detail
:)
[14:18]
Tarbox%TOPICTITLE{"MyTopic" web="OtherWeb"}%
I've got debug inside handleTopicTitle in dbcacheplugin and when I view the "I" topic the debug is output
But if I view M including I handleTopicTitle is never called.
[14:18]
GuilainChave you right to do this kind of syntaxe on TOPICTITLE macro ? I've never seen this web option and not understand it, could you please give me a docu link
?
[14:19]
TarboxNo docu, I found it in the source code while trying to solve this problem.
It works fine if handleTopicTitle is called.
[14:19]
GuilainCoh... [14:20]
Tarboxbut including I just skips calling handle. [14:20]
GuilainC:)
so you're above my skills ;)
[14:20]
TarboxCrap. Well, thank you for your advice. [14:20]
GuilainChappy for you, and sorry, I can't help [14:20]
TarboxNah it's cool.
I liked the "Include is raw=on" metaphor.
thank you.
[14:21]
GuilainCI've take 5 years for understand that ;)
but let me understand you usage, when you write %TOPICTITLE{"MyTopic" web="OtherWeb"}% you want to take topictile of the MyTopic in the web OtherWeb ?
isn't you
?
[14:21]
Tarboxyes. [14:22]
GuilainCpass through a simple query like (no warranty on syntax)
%DBQUERY{"name~'MyTopic'" format="$formfield(TopicTile)"}%
this kind of
[14:23]
TarboxThank you. That's a big head start for me. [14:24]
GuilainCle me install dbcacheplugin & other
i will try to make you a proof of concept
give me 5 min
letting apt-get made the install
Tarbox, could you make que %DBDUMP{"MyTopic" web="OtherWeb"}%
and find the field where topictile is ?
DBDUMP for me is like raw=all
very usefull for finding the name of the formfield (named field by myself too)
[14:24]
Tarboxtopictitle [14:27]
GuilainCso you can normally get it in the M topic by a simple DBQUERY{"name~'MyTopic'" format="$formfield(topictittle)"}%
or by QUERY (but you not using the cache
)
[14:29]
TarboxSo is DBCALL and DBQUERY a strict upgrade on include, or are there reasons to prefer one over the other? [14:29]
GuilainCGuilainC use his simple script for verifying perl dependencies after debian package install...
not the same
for what i've understand of dbcacheplugin (I'm not using usually) DBCALL is an INCLUDE equivalent
DBQUERY is the QUERY equivalent
but the two DBCALL and DBQUERY use cache mechanism
so quicker but more often not up to date
all right ? or something wrong ?
[14:29]
TarboxNo, doesn't work. But I'll puzzle it out. [14:36]
GuilainCok, i will make a try on my side, and come back to you if I found how to do [14:37]
TarboxD: %TOPICTITLE% doesn't work in M directly. Including has nothing to do with it. [14:42]
... because having a TopicTitle in the form overloads %TOPICTITLE%, meaning handleTOPICTITLE is never called.
%GETTOPICTITLE% works as expected.
[14:48]
gac410MichaelDaum: I've started at slideshow.js and slideshow.css on 1.2, for hours last night. I can't figure out how it actually hides/shows slides. It needs a printable view that reveals all slides [14:50]
MichaelDaumgac410, erm why
a slideshow is YAT (yet another topic)
nobody prints it while in the middle of a presentation
[14:51]
gac410When I print a slideshow to create "handouts", on 1.1.x it prints all slides. On 1.2.x it prints only the current slide.
I ALWAYS would create a handout of the slides prior to teaching.
IMO inability to print the slides is a blocker. It works on 1.1.x
[14:51]
MichaelDaumhttp://trunk.foswiki.org/System/BeginnersStartHere?cover=print looks just fine ... In my book [14:53]
gac410On 1.1.x they waste paper due to all the empty <p> tags, but at least they print.
No.. One slide per page, formatted as a slide.
Click "Start slideshow" and then click print
[14:54]
MichaelDaumthis never worked
feature request
not a bug
[14:55]
gac410It most certainly does. I'm lookinga t a printout now.
http://foswiki.org/System/BeginnersStartHere?slideshow=on;skin=slideshow#GoSlide1
Pagination isn't great. But that's a simple css fix.
[14:55]
MichaelDaumno page breaks as far as I can see
there is no "one slide per page"
[14:56]
gac410Right. I added it. The last <p> needs to be <p style=pagebreak> or whatever the syntax is [14:56]
MichaelDaumnew feature [14:56]
gac410No. It works on 1.1.x
Blocker.
It prints all slides with a cosmetic issue on 1.1.x, needs a very simple one-line fix to SlideShow.pm On 1.2.x, the slides are all hidden and only the visible slide prints.
[14:57]
MichaelDaumthere is no print css for this feature atm
I never was aware of the specs including a "one slide per page" requirement
[14:59]
gac410It doesn't need print css. Just use the browsers print button. It prints mostly okay except for page breaks, which are a simple fix. [15:00]
MichaelDaumfor printouts
the new SlideShowPlugin uses different css ... which doesnt print out nicely as it is only tailored for screen presentation
[15:00]
gac410Maybe it's a US thing then, but for my whole working career, the presenter always gave a paper copy of the slides. "Handout" mode in powerpoint. [15:01]
MichaelDaumat some point you have to believe me that the css is the reason this is causing a bad print out [15:01]
gac410My feeling is that just like Lavr reverted the SlideShowPlugin for 1.1.0 I'll need to do that for 1.2, if we can't print. [15:01]
MichaelDaumMichaelDaum wonders what ticked gac410 into berserk mode [15:02]
gac410Not beserk. Item13281. I recreated Vicki's issue on 1.1.x, and fixed it. Then tried to recreate on 1.2.x and spent all night trying to understand the magic in the css
She and Rich proved to me that it mostly worked on 1.1.x
So not to be beserk. Just Feature works on 1.1.x, seems reasonable (I've used it myself), and broken on 1.2.x
[15:03]
MichaelDaumas things are .... at the moment ... handouts have to be created in "continuous mode" that is all slides are printed one after the other ... NOT in "one slide per page" mode [15:05]
gac410If you want a 1.1.x style handout, you have to view and print each slide one at a time. [15:05]
MichaelDaumcss is tailored towards screen presentation, i.e. it uses absolute positioning. this obviously cant be printed out using the same css.
using this css all slides are "printed" one over the other
on page one
[15:06]
gac410Ah. So the z-order then? [15:06]
MichaelDaumthat's due to the css positioning the sldies on the screen
to reorder slides so that they appear one after the other again .… during print ... additional media="print" css needs to be added to the SlideShowPlugin
[15:06]
gac410Seems it would be simple tweak to position them sequentially with <p style="page-break-after:always;"></p> [15:08]
MichaelDaumcouple of lines to make slides flow again ... instead of abs pos
right
[15:08]
gac410I was willing to try to fix it. Just didn't understand what the css was doing. Had a 2nd person also studying it and we got no where. [15:08]
MichaelDaumpub/System/SlideShowPlugin/slideshow.uncompressed.css needs a @media print { ... }; section and you are on track again [15:10]
GuilainCTarbox, happy that gettitletopic works, for dbquery, that's kind of code works : %DBQUERY{"topic =~'TopicExterieur'"}% be carefull of the syntaxe, lightly different of QUERY macro see : http://foswiki.org/Extensions/DBCachePlugin#Syntax_of_search_queries [15:10]
TarboxThank you. [15:10]
MichaelDaumMichaelDaum takes action on SlideShit [15:10]
gac410Thanks MichaelDaum I was glad to try to fix it, just didn't understand enough of css. [15:12]
GuilainCGuilainC have perhaps found a bug between editchapterplugin and dbcacheplugin, is there a sandbox web accessible on the internet with this two modules activates ? [15:14]
gac410GuilainC: Only one I can think of is maybe Michael's demo site? Definitely not on Foswiki.org. ... they both show as installed on his demo site. [15:17]
GuilainCproof of concept of the code http://foswiki.org/Sandbox/TestEditChapterDBCache
i will make a task, should be better i think, linking toward the proof of concept
it doesn't work on my install, i suppose it will be the same elsewhere
anywhere ?!
in an other install ;)
[15:17]
jast'elsewhere' looks fine :) [15:18]
gac410Check with MichaelDaum's demo site. It looks like both plugins are installed there.
+1 elsewhere was just fine.
[15:18]
GuilainCok, I've no idea which plugin fails should i create a task in special manner
thanks for your help on my english training
GuilainC going to register on MichaelDaum demo site
[15:19]
gac410You can just list both EditChapterPlugin and DBCachePlugin in the Component section.
Sometimes you can tweak these things by changing the load order of the extensions.
Ie if it's failing with the default load order (alphabetical?) Add the EditChapterPlugin to the load order in configure and see if that helps.
[15:20]
GuilainCGuilainC have a dream, when wiki will be connected, and then, be able to connect on MichaelDaum demo wiki with his foswiki.org account... he dreams...
ah good gac410
let me try
no think about that !
any improvement :(
[15:22]
gac410It was worth a try. Sorry about that. Sometimes extension interaction is pretty complicated. MichaelDaum might have to look into this one, esp. if it fails on his site too. [15:28]
GuilainCGuilainC waiting the email confirmation from the demo of Michael Daum, server seems to be far away, or the mail come from by carrier pigeon [15:28]
JulianLevensgac410, MicahelDaum: how do you create new FW VMs. I'm able to build a new VM on demand now, via vagrant picking up the latest stuff from git master [15:29]
gac410gac410 doesn't use foswiki vm capability. Would much rather have completely independent fw. installations. [15:29]
GuilainCI forgott all the time this loading option, but I've to say is not very easy to understand this one, when you are not a developper, IMHO [15:30]
JulianLevensI can't help thinking that I'm covering ground already trodden by others [15:30]
gac410I don't use vagrant either. I just use plain old apache vm's and un-tar foswiki into a separate /var/www/<virtualhost> directory
I only have 2 public wikis, and would *never* attempt to update both at the same time. I like that they are totally separate.
[15:31]
JulianLevensI'm more thinking about development, you often state here that you are throwing together a new VM to test xyz out
Or is that launching a VM that you already have lying around
[15:32]
gac410Oh. yeah. I have a few qemu images on my laptop. If necessary I copy the virtual disk to another one.
In those cases, I have mixture of distros as well. Different debian / ubuntu / suse installs.
I don't think that Foswiki VirtualHostingContrib would help there either ;) If that's what you mean by a Foswiki VM
[15:33]
JulianLevensMichaelDaum: Your thoughts on VM building [15:34]
gac410Another is the Foswiki 1.1.9 vmware vdisk image we have available for download. [15:35]
JulianLevensI trying to be able to build a VM automatically from a specific git reference eventually and indeed other distros
Something like this was done by Babar some time ago: http://foswiki.org/Development/EasyDevelopment
I used this for some time to get me up and running, but it needs more work. Now I'm in a position to refine it
[15:36]
GuilainCGuilainC have found a real bug ! :) on task more ! :) [15:38]
gac410JulianLevens: I guess I'm well established with vm's and checkouts using qemu. so trying to learn another env. like vagrant, chef and virtualbox. just seemed like too much to tackle [15:39]
JulianLevensThe goal is indeed to make it real easy for a new dev to get up and running quickly [15:40]
gac410I installed virtualbox once, still have the drivers built, but IIRC, I had trouble, where as qemu worked well for me. [15:40]
JulianLevensy, I figured you and the other established devs will do their own thing
Just wanted to pick brains for any commonality
I'm also using Windows as my host, although I'm keen to try other hosts and VM providers
At work I'll need this to work via HyperV and the scripting is important
[15:40]
gac410Ah. yeah The most I do with windows is an ancient WindowsXP VM cloned from my original hard disk on this laptop, where I test the .zip packages we build in foswiki releases.
One of these days I need to boot it again and try 1.2.0 on it
[15:43]
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TarboxWhat does %DBCALL{remote="on|off"}% actually control? I have a bug that remote="off" fixes but I'm hesitant to explain all the details of the situation if it's just generic knowledge.
or I'm full of crap and refreshed the wrong page. :(
[15:57]
gac410:) [15:58]
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TarboxSo using Func::saveTopic skips afterEditHandlers. Is there a polite way to call those from within a plugin? [16:25]
gac410It should call the afterSaveHandlers, not afterEdit, as an edit wasn
wasn't actually performed. Just a save :)
[16:26]
Tarboxokay. What's the preferred way to create a new topic inside a plugin?
I tried to use saveTopic but DBCALL can't see new topics until I manually save them.
[16:26]
gac410Ah. Sounds like a bug in DBCache then. afterEdit is documented as ONLY called by preview: *NOTE:* this handler is _not_ called unless the text is previewed. [16:28]
TarboxWell now that I look DBCache has afterSaveHandler
I think my eyes crossed somewhere.
[16:28]
gac410Yeah that's the correct handler that is called after a topic save. [16:28]
Tarboxwell crap
it's being called.
So what else is needed for DBCALL to see the topic?
[16:29]
gac410gac410 doesn't know what DBCALL is ... sorry [16:30]
TarboxDBCachePlugin's DBCache aware version of INCLUDE [16:30]
jastDBCALL is DBCachePlugin's version of INCLUDE, roughly speaking [16:30]
gac410So when you save a topic, the cache isn't getting notified of the update for some reason? [16:31]
TarboxWhen I saveTopic from inside a plugin, yes. When I save through the UI, it's notified.
would using ignorePermissions matter?
[16:31]
gac410I don't see why it would.
I'll have to check out DBCacheContrib to look. I don't have the repo cloned yet.
[16:32]
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TarboxIt only happens on a new topic.
DBCALL gets notified when changes are made to an existing topic.
[16:39]
gac410Tarbox: There is a writeDebug commented out in DBCachePlugin/Core.pm in the afterSaveHandler that might give you some more information.
At least know if it's being called (and with what parms) after a topic create.
[16:39]
TarboxIt's being called. Appears to be the same parameters. [16:44]
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Rich_Moringac410: I have some niggling questions about when some things happen. For example, "Set foo = ..." and %INCLUDE%
Incidentally,this search failed in an amusing way: http://foswiki.org/System/WebSearch?search=%25INCLUDE%25&scope=all&web=System
[17:51]
TarboxSet statements inside an included file will not be parsed and hence unavailable to the including topic. [17:52]
Rich_MorinTarbox: Indeed, but that is not my question. I'm trying to figure out where Sets occur in the data flow - http://wiki.cfcl.com/Learn/WikiDataFlow?leftbar.x=17&leftbar.y=12&leftbar=Hide [17:53]
Tarboxheh. oops. [17:54]
Rich_MorinTarbox: Please let me know what errors and omissions you find on the page... [17:57]
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TarboxSo I haven't finished the last step or two of proving it but it seems if you make several saves to a topic all within a second of each other, dbcachecontrib does not recognize the later changes as having happened because .cache_time's resolution is one second. I have to go to lunch but I'll poke it more in an hour or so. [18:28]
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GithubBot[distro] FoswikiBot pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/x69O
distro/master afddf2b Raul F Rodriguez: Item13252: Translations updated using Weblate (French)...
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GithubBot[distro] MichaelDaum pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/xi8x
distro/master 885fe2a MichaelDaum: Item13281: fixed print css for handouts
distro/master 418628f MichaelDaum: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:foswiki/distro
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GithubBot[distro] MichaelDaum pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/xi4b
distro/master 01aa09f MichaelDaum: Item13281: fixed slideshow
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GithubBot[distro] MichaelDaum pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/xiB1
distro/master f6a51fb MichaelDaum: Item13281: fixing topicinfo
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Rich_Moringac410: VickiBrown added some "Practicum" to my page - http://wiki.cfcl.com/Learn/WikiDataFlow [20:26]
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[20:27]
gac410gac410 had to google Practicum [20:28]
.... (idle for 16mn)
TarboxYup. DBCache monitors rev time with a 1 second resolution, so multiple changes within a single second get missed. Rewriting my code to only save once is probably the smarter thing to do anyways. [20:44]
gac410Rich_Morin: If you could let Vicki know. MichaelDaum fixed the upcoming 1.2 SlideShow plugin to print slides correctly. He released it to http://foswiki.org/Extensions/Testing/SlideShowPlugin
It looks good here, and is much better than the old version, which inserted all the blank lines
[20:52]
Rich_Morinforwarded; thnx! [20:54]
gac410Rich_Morin: Also, for your document, I'd recommend, instead of hiding settings inside <!-- --> html comments, consider using saving them in the Topic "Settings" page. Which puts them in metadata
Foswiki 1.2 will gradually migrate Auth ALLOW / DENY settings into metadata. Other settings will be left along for now.
Foswiki 1.2 will ship with a tool tools/convertTopicSettings.pl which converts any inline Auth settings to Meta settings, and optionally converts ALL settings.
[20:55]
TarboxVisibility in WebPreferences was nice. [20:59]
GuilainC_gac410, on this subject, is for me a little bit obscure, how to modify metadata in a non wysiwyg environnement (neither natedit or tinymce) in pure "edit" template [21:00]
gac410Probably can be displayed with a macro. Need to think about that. The "all settings" is currently optional.
Hm. Foswiki 1.2, I think requires one or the other. I've not had any luck when I disabled NatEdit and TinyMCE.
Part of the "Foswiki 1.2 requires javascript" challenges
[21:00]
TarboxSo far I've found broad support for javascript in the field. [21:01]
gac410y. The days of js being optional are pretty much gone.
At least Foswiki will be viewable without it. Some sites I can't get more than a blank screen without js enabled.
[21:02]
Tarbox( ^_^)b [21:02]
GuilainC_but by default i think that none of the two is installed ?
I think that js should be default
[21:02]
gac410On Foswiki 1.2, NatEdt and TinyMCE are both installed by default. [21:03]
GuilainC_ok [21:03]
Rich_Moringac410: I was totally unaware of the Preferences pages. This looks Foswiki-specific, but could be handy in some cases. I use Set a lot, mostly as a way to DRY up my pages and move URLs out of the body copy. [21:03]
gac410On Foswiki 1.1 and 1.2, TinyMCE is default, [21:03]
GuilainC_that explain, then a lot of docu have to be updated
when you install from fresh, but if you have an old install
i don't think there is something like please install tinymce or natedit
[21:03]
TarboxRich_Morin: As an extra bonus, the manage script can have its own security, but you have to think real hard about what you're denying to people. [21:04]
GuilainC_and last question all set command (like local variable) migrate to the metadata ?
or we should be still able to define variable in topic ?
[21:05]
gac410Rich_Morin: Twiki has edit preferences. Just checked my old twiki svn checout ...
I didn't think that was new.
GuilainC_: migration is optional, but if a setting is found in both places, meta will be the authority
[21:06]
GuilainC_ok good to know
the script for migration can be run only on some specific web/topic ?
[21:07]
gac410Hm. TinyMCE and NatEdit are both part of the tarball. If you are using deb pkgs though, I have no idea. But if you install what the project builds you get the TinyMCE (and on 1.2) natEdit by default
IMO the deb foswiki package *should* install exactly what the tarball installs. Otherwise support is a nightmare.
And for the git clone users, " pseudo_install.pl default" installs TinyMCE and Nat by default as well.
[21:08]
GuilainC_ok ok, I'm working on deb package...
we will see :)
[21:09]
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gac410convertTopicSettings [-update] [-fixdeny] [-convert] [-all] [-verbose] [-debug] [WEB .. ] [21:10]
GuilainC_ok nice :) [21:10]
Rich_MorinI really wish there was a way to INCLUDE settings. [21:11]
gac410Thats an early architectural restriction dating from very early days. Before my time
I've worked around that using spreadsheet variables. Those CAN be included.
So include topic has a bunch of %CALC{$set()}% and parent topic can use %CALC{$get()}%
[21:12]
Tarbox%EXPAND% works [21:13]
Rich_MorinIn Elixir (http://elixir-lang.org), there are separate ways to import functions and macros. [21:13]
gac410Foswiki needs developers to propose and then *implement* improvements. It's all volunteers (or sponsored). If you really want something, then you need to make it happen :)
Most of us fix / implement stuff that we find personally interesting / rewarding, or have sponsored development. FeatureProposals without a dev don't go anywhere!
[21:14]
jmk0what's the meaning behind "SMELL" in code? [21:16]
gac410EVERYONE! Please test http://foswiki.org/Download/NightlyBuilds if you have time. 1.2 has an immense amount of work and changes and features. We need early feedback before going into beta [21:16]
TarboxIt means the author wants that comment to have more visibility because of decisions made. The PerlDoc feature will track comments marked SMELL so you can see all the SMELLs in one report. [21:16]
jmk0more to the point, if I have a regex I know will fail under certain circumstances but I'm blowing it off for the moment, is that a "FIX" "TODO" or "SMELL"?
k
[21:17]
Rich_Moringac410: true that, but I have my own projects (and haven't touched Perl in years!) [21:17]
gac410Yup. facts of life. The other option is $$ sponsored development. I'm not being negative. Just if you look at the list of stalled features. these things don't happen without an "interested" developer, be it motivated by cash or self interest. [21:19]
GuilainC_gac410, git/svn migration question : build deb call an "svn info" for getting the revision and add the revision in description of deb package. for me the best equivalent is to take the hash of the HEAD in git ? I'm right ? [21:20]
gac410yeah. hang on I can show you what I do in the test build code. [21:20]
GuilainC_GuilainC_ trying deb generation
GuilainC_ was estonnished as the script goes well... before it crash ;)
[21:21]
gac410my $rev = `git rev-parse --short HEAD`; And I also pull the branch info [21:23]
Tarboxjmk0, I'm pretty sure that's not a smell because most of the smells imply some sort of uncertainty. You know it's going to fail under a certain condition, so it's either a fix or a todo. I guess it depends on how bad the error is if it fails. [21:23]
Rich_Moringac410: V sez: I know about the Settings page :-)
But this hides things too deep for many people (often including me).
There's such a thing as "too hidden" leading to "lost".
also: "Users" (i.e. not power users) have enough trouble handling settings. Meta data and anything under More… confuses them — a lesson I learned on my million-page 2000-web 10, 000 user wiki. I would avoid forcing ownerships into Meta data unless there is a convenient front-end for doing it that doesn't require "More…"
[21:23]
gac410Wish is half way there. NatEdit on Foswiki 1.2 provides the Auth settings on a separate Tab. Tabs for Text, Form, Settings [21:25]
GuilainC_good option for short the hash :) [21:25]
TarboxScore! [21:25]
gac410# Modify Foswiki.pm to show the last revision
REV=`git log --abbrev=12 --format=format:"Commit: %h - %ci" -1`
BR=`git branch 2> /dev/null | sed -e '/^[^*]/d' -e 's/* \(.*\)/Branch: \1/'`
GuilainC_: That's what the shell script that updates http://trunk.foswiki.org does.
But TBH, if the deb is the "golden" released code, then you should not have to update Foswiki.pm. Once we build the golden code, the RELEASE/VERSION strings are cast in stone.
[21:25]
TarboxWill it be possible to put comments on settings made in the metadata? I've yet to try it... [21:26]
gac410Hm. Well comments on settings actually become part of the setting. Set BLAH = <and the rest of the whole line is the setting including <!--comments--> [21:27]
GuilainC_GuilainC_ takes time to understand gac410 information ;
;)
[21:27]
TarboxWell I'm thinking:
<!-- BigBossguy approved this -->
* Set ALLOWTOPICVIEW = SpecialUser
[21:28]
gac410Tarbox, no that won't work on settings. [21:28]
Tarbox* Set THEMOREYOUKNOW = Big boss guy approved this - ? [21:29]
gac410GuilainC_: On "nightly builds" And "test" builds, we stuff in the github rev info. On a golden build for general release. It's a traditional version string. For ex: VERSION v1.1.9 , RELEASE Foswiki-1.1.9, [21:30]
GuilainC_gac410, what's interested me in debian package is to have the simple master branch
of a release
and yes, I shouldn't take code not released.. so HEAD is not good
how release / version is done undercontrol (under git)
is it tagged ?
[21:31]
gac410Our releases have to be "built" from the master branch. We compress and uglify the javascript, compress all css, generate plain text HTML of the install guide, release notes, etc.
Yes it will be tagged. We *used to* create a subversion branch per release.
[21:32]
GuilainC_but that's is done by pseudo_install ? isn't it ? [21:32]
gac410No no ... pseudo-install " fakes it" nothing is actually compressed or uglified
pseudo-install is for testing / development. last thing a dev. wants is minified/compressed js and css
[21:33]
GuilainC_ok.. sorry, but i think that SvenDowideit script for building deb package, take care about this
is the extension have version / release ?
[21:33]
gac410I really wish he made his scripts public. The stuff you've found in git are from DrakeDiedrich
Which pre-dates Sven's auto builds I think... not sure as I've not paid a lot of attention.
[21:34]
GuilainC_and you above code enable to catch release/version [21:35]
gac410Extensions also have a Version / release, but they are not updated until the ex. developer is ready to release. [21:35]
GuilainC_ah... ok
ok...
what I'm thinking is to make stable when RELEASE/VERSION is present with tag
core & extension
all upstream code is put in unstable (or testing)
what do you think about that ? (in the idea...)
[21:35]
gac410BuildContrib is our build tool. It does all the compression, etc. for anything we release. the "upload" target uploads to the Extensions web as attachments. It's all manually triggerd, and up to Dev to manually maintian the VERSION and RELEASE strings. [21:37]
GuilainC_ok gac410, you right the script have found is old (2011) but it's a good start, before re-writting all, which is absolutely outside my skills [21:38]
gac410Yeah I think that works. (look for a tag). 1.2.0 will be the first release that we build from git. So this is all new for us too.,
Extensions, I don't thnk we have ever tagged them. Tags in subversion are really "heavy". Git and especially repo per extension for the non-default extensions will make this much easier.
We will probably not tag individual default extensions though. I think they would need to be in separate repositories.
[21:39]
GuilainC_for me tag have to be done by git repo
one RELEASE / VERSION tag by bare git repo
[21:41]
gac410Right. The challenge will be the default extensions. They all release *with* the release. So when Foswiki 1.2.0 releases, we will release ALL default extensions at their current version. (Each ext. has it's own version numbering).
The distro repo will get a tag. Foswiki-1.2.0 for ex.
[21:42]
GuilainC_and what the "politic" if the developpeur of an extension havn't update the revision history (so there are upstream code, not "announce" in the extension topic ? should we warn the author ? or just correct it as we can ?
ah yes, you're right on this point...
in this case, several tag :(
one extension, one final commit, one tag...
[21:43]
gac410But then say we need to update just JQuery. (new release of JQuery is out for ex) Then the distro/JQuery extension will be built with it's new version JQueryPlugin 7.0 But I don't know how to tag just that subdirectory.
We would *not* want to tag the rest of the extensions or Foswiki core, as it's under development for Foswiki 1.2.1
[21:44]
GuilainC_so when release occure, you have several tag ; perhaps naming could help like "Ext REALEASE /VERSION" and" Core RELEASE / VERSION" [21:45]
gac410Ideally each extension would have its own repo. [21:45]
GuilainC_yes
you can do it by submodule
[21:46]
gac410But we lost too much subversion history with 100% separate repositories.
We started out that way, but there was lots of code movememtn between extensions and core.
[21:46]
GuilainC_ok, but that's your part ;) I'm thinking how construct deb package, and it's JQuery who break the auto build script [21:47]
gac410And when you split an extension (say RCSStoreContrib) into it's own repository That has 4 years of history in distro/core. then the history is lost.
It was a painful decision, there was no good answer.
[21:47]
GuilainC_for the moment try to construct all deb of the last comit, perhaps a non sense, but it help myself to understand how everything works
you can transfert history of a directory in a submodule
[21:48]
gac410yeah. And that works good for unstable repo. [21:48]
GuilainC_is quite tricky but you can
and normaly last git version has made the trick more easy
yes it should be a kind of nightly debian build package
[21:48]
gac410Hm. I tried and googled and hunted for a solution. The conversion from SVN to git to separate repositories was painful. I had some migration tasks run 36+ hours [21:49]
GuilainC_but now you have in git history
the trick is to copy all of repo and clean git object by suppressing all the paths we don't want
[21:50]
gac410The problem is ... History of RcsStoreContrib/lib/Foswiki/Store/RCSWrap.pm moved from distro/core/lib/Foswiki/Store/RCSWrap.pm, which moved from distro/core/lib/TWiki/ ... you get the idea [21:51]
GuilainC_that's my search : https://www.google.fr/search?client=opera&q=git+make+submodule+from+directory
rraaah
ok...
[21:51]
gac410The end result is with renames, and moves over 6+ years, it was almost impossible to find esactly what directories to include / suppress [21:52]
GuilainC_yes but should you keep all history of a module ?
or tell you, before 1.2, everything is in distro
but from 1.2 (so last path know) we have split code into submodule
it could be a compromise ?
[21:52]
gac410Well we use it. We have the Tasks going back to Item001, all with svn rev's which we map to git commits. [21:53]
GuilainC_hm..
as I say, git is your part ;)
[21:53]
gac410We still lost a bunch of stuff. I forgot to import the "Scratch" branch in subversion, so anything that moved to/from scratch was lost. [21:54]
GuilainC_but you know, I've take a look how linux kernel depo are, and they seems to break history continuity often
as my git expert tell to me, as you keep git svn object you still can do everything you wan
but git expert wasn't me :) sorry !
[21:54]
gac410yeah. It was a judgment call in the middle of the migration, with subversion shut off and I did what I could do. I still have the git svn repo on my laptop. Stalled at the last svn commit from back in July.
WYSIWYG ... The Dev's who started the Git migration seem to have changed jobs / left the project. So what's done is done.
[21:56]
GuilainC_tools/foswiki.init-script give me an insecure dependency in open
normal ?
[22:05]
gac410Not sure GuilainC_ I don't use that. I can comment that on Foswiki 1.2.0, we are removing all the -T taint checking options. But Foswiki 1.x shipped with perl -wT by default in all scripts
Ah... that's part of FastCGIEngineContrib. I think that was supposed to have -T disabled everywhere, but not sure.
[22:07]
GuilainC_I've found that's part of FastCGI... i take a look [22:09]
gac410Are you running from the latest git, or using the old pkg from fosiki [22:10]
GuilainC_perl documentatoin say is just because is not well coded...
latest git
is still on deb build
on in a use of foswiki
but don't worry... I'm looking for and find
and will find
[22:10]
gac410-T taint checking is very difficult in some cases. Do you have "locales" enabled in the foswiki configuration? [22:11]
GuilainC_hum... that's break during pseudo-install call
so spec are the one we found in master branch in git
no link to any foswiki install
[22:11]
gac410hm. pseudo-install might have -T coded. I'd just remove it.
pseudo-install would normally never be used on a production system anyway.
[22:12]
GuilainC_GuilainC_ love the maner of gac410 for coding... [22:13]
gac410Basically perl taints *anything* that comes from the ENV, and anything from an external source. locales, etc. And any path that has a relative ../ style path.
../.. paths cannot be untainted without removing the ../ relative navigation.
[22:14]
GuilainC_is not this scipt which failed.. is something else [22:14]
gac410why is pseudo-install running, and how is it involved with tools/foswiki.init-script Normally that script gets moved to the system init scripts.
And is used to start the fcgi handlers when not using apache.
If you are using apache, fcgi processes are auto-started and the init script is not used.
[22:16]
GuilainC_thanks gac410 for these info [22:21]
buildcontrib need locatsite.cfg somewhere ?
buildcontrib normal stop if there is uncommitted changes? (do stash work ?!)
[22:27]
gac410Yes. For building a foswiki release, you need a basic functional foswiki... Mainly so at the end it can render the README and INSTALL docs. pseudo-install -A will generate a sufficient default LSC.
And for uncommitted changes, you can do "-nocheck" I think to skip the checking of uncommitted work.
[22:28]
GuilainC_hm so pseudo-install -A enable to build without a functionnal foswiki install isn't it?
I can commit too :)
[22:29]
gac410pseudo-install -A uses the command line configure tool to bootstrap and build a very basic functional configuration. [22:30]
GuilainC_ok [22:30]
gac410tools/configure -save -noprompt will do the same thing
That is one thing that can change in the .debs for Foswiki 1.2. Rather than ship a canned LocalSite.cfg, the post install routines (deb --configure? ) can run the shell configure tool
tools/configure -save -noprompt
tools/configure -save -set {Password}='asdfasdf' -set {DefaultUrlHost}='http://yourfoswikisite.com' -set {PubUrlPath}='/pub' .... etc. etc.
Nicer than using "sed" to try to tailor the LocalSIte.cfg I think.
[22:30]
GuilainC_GuilainC_ take note
I'm not here ;)
[22:33]
gac410:) [22:33]
GuilainC_In this case, i prefer to go toward questions and/or ncurse...
if we dream, dream well
[22:34]
-nocheck option is for what script? [22:43]
gac410tools/build.pl Hang on I might not have the right syntax :P [22:44]
GuilainC_ok, I was on pseudo install and found nothing ; [22:45]
gac410no that 's right. cd tools; perl build.pl release -nocheck ought to prompt to build a test release without checking the reop [22:45]
GuilainC_;) [22:45]
gac410That was added ages ago (repo check) to avoid building releases with the wrong svn rev. Then had to add the -nocheck because sometimes you want a release without commiting to the repo [22:46]
GuilainC_ok... building is in progress
my last try for today
[22:48]
gac410Do you have node.js and the js versions of uglify and cssmin installed? They are needed for a real release.
I'm not sure they get pulled in by dependencies. But they are mentioned in Development/BuildingARelease
[22:48]
GuilainC_hum what do you mean by installed ? on my system ?
probably no
i will check you link
[22:49]
gac410Yeah. They give the best compression and minimizing of css & js [22:49]
GuilainC_but don't worry at this moment is for me, and only for me, for trying to understand, what this script do
and how i can improve or do in an other manner, inspire, etc
[22:49]
gac410I don't think it will fail without them. But it will fall back to the yahoo versions and finally CPAN versions, none of which work very well. MichaelDaum was saying that we should just fail to build when the node.js versinos are missing. [22:51]
GuilainC_yui has just failed [22:51]
gac410Very few people actually build a release with full compression / and minimizing of the js / css. Usually just the release manager. [22:52]
.... (idle for 17mn)
GuilainC_I think I've a lot of work before mastering all of that... [23:09]
gac410Of course a lot of the same thing happens on individual extension builds. tools/build.pl is just an iterative build of all the default extensions, and then a packaging up into a single big zipfile / tarball [23:11]
GuilainC_I'm rethinking about the priority on deb package
have you any idea when 1.2 will be ready for release ?
[23:13]
gac410hopefully a couple of months. Translations will be the big bottleneck now. [23:14]
GuilainC_and building isolated extension should be simpler thant core
ah yes, translation, I don't have get email
my last translation was so awful ?!
[23:14]
gac410Sorry .. that time I didn't understand. What email? [23:15]
GuilainC_email from the foswiki mailing list of the translators
I think I was inside
perhpas not, for the 1.1.8 or .9 I've done something
don't worry
[23:16]
gac410Hm. Are you on the foswiki-translations email list? [23:16]
GuilainC_it's time for me to tel you good night [23:17]
gac410Our old translation server was lost. So I don't have a complete list of all the former translators [23:17]
GuilainC_I think I was, but not seem to be...
I will check this tomorow
good night gac410 and thanks for your support
help
advice
an so on
[23:17]
gac410goodnight
Subscribe here sometime! https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/foswiki-translations
[23:17]
GuilainC_yes i was on the foswiki-translations
I'm just seeing I was in digest mode
[23:20]
gac410Ah okay Well it doesn't get much activity anyway,. only 2-3 messages total so far. [23:20]
GuilainC_ok, so I will first change to normal subscription
and I will see
good bye !
[23:21]
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...... (idle for 27mn)
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