#foswiki 2015-03-05,Thu

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WhoWhatWhen
gac410jast If you see this later. Can we disable language locking and let translators coordinate among themselves? See http://docs.weblate.org/en/latest/admin/config.html#auto-lock
I guess it's in Django's settings.py, so not something that's web editable.
[00:13]
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RaulFRgac410, I would very much prefer the kind of setting the Pootle llowed, were I was the coordinator, and I was approving the translations suggested by others
allowed*
that ensures that there is consistency in the translation, since someone has to be responsible for that
[00:32]
gac410Okay. Do you know, was it done using the "Suggestion" system in pootle? [00:35]
RaulFRyes, I was receiving suggestions I had to approve or reject [00:35]
gac410Okay. That may be easy then. We just move users from "ApprovedUsers" group to "Users" group. Users can suggest. Approved Users can actually commit translations.
I don't think it is easily language specific though. If you are in the approved users group, you can approve any languages translation.
[00:36]
RaulFRI see [00:40]
gac410There is an advanced ACLs system but it's not installed, and the docs seemed to have warnings about not turning it on unless you understand it. [00:41]
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Anyway ... I'm going to do another email to discuss & svn lists looking for new translators to join the project. And asking for alpha test to start. As soon as we get some progress on translations I'll build Beta 1.
So far, only French, German and Traditional Chinese have had any translation going on. And I don't really know who the old language leads were. The pootle configuration got lost.
ArthurClemens and KennethLavrsen did Dutch & Danish, so we need new translators for those languages I expect.
[01:16]
RaulFRthere was a topic on foswiki.org stating who were the language coordinators [01:21]
gac410Ah.. okay I'll look [01:21]
RaulFRhttp://foswiki.org/Community/TranslationTeam [01:21]
gac410Ah excellent. I had found TranslationTaskTeam, but missed that one. Too many topics :) [01:22]
RaulFR:-) [01:23]
gac410That topic needs some work I guess. Need to fix up the translation links.
Most of those dev's have not been seen in a long time.
[01:25]
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RaulFRbye gac410, and all
thanks for your help
[03:06]
gac410thank you too for your translations :) [03:06]
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GithubBot[distro] FoswikiBot pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/x7Yu
distro/master 72f3a56 Raul F Rodriguez: Item13252: Translations updated using Weblate (French)...
[03:46]
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GithubBot[distro] gac410 pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/x7nY
distro/master 76e46c3 George Clark: Item13252: Fix call to maketext using a variable...
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ChanServ sets mode: +o MichaelDaum [07:42]
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MichaelDaumjast, I just registered on translate.foswiki.org but am only able to make translate suggestions. How are these committed to the repo? [08:04]
GuilainCMichaelDaum, for translation, you are in the user groups
and then you're limited to suggestion
the lead of your language should be in the approved user
[08:11]
MichaelDaumah ok how do I get into the approved users group? [08:11]
GuilainCgac410 push my suggested into github because seems to be delicated
ask gac ;)
i think or jast
too
[08:11]
MichaelDaumay. will do. [08:12]
GuilainCMichaelDaum, we've get a discussion about translating system web, if you have some min, please take a look the irc log file [08:15]
jastMichaelDaum: I've added you to the managers group [08:23]
MichaelDaumthanks
wasn't sure whether I had registered already or not
[08:23]
jast, would it be possible to add non-core plugins as a new project? how do I do that?
GuilainC, I quickly skimmed over the translation discussion in the irc logs
[08:34]
***ChanServ sets mode: +o RaulFR [08:43]
MichaelDaumwhat has been your conclusion with regards to translating topic texts? [08:45]
GuilainCdiscuss with you :) [08:46]
RaulFRHello GuilainC, MichaelDaum :-)
and hello all
[08:47]
GuilainCi think the questions are the following : with which plugin ? for which release
hello RaulFR
[08:47]
MichaelDaumhey RaulFR [08:47]
GuilainCi'm on weblate, do you want translate ? [08:47]
RaulFRwe need to coordinate on this subject Guilain [08:48]
GuilainCand jast, MichaelDaum has a good question, how translation is done for extensions ?
RaulFR, => private chat !
[08:48]
MichaelDaumI'd suggest the following: for now we only have means to translate Foswiki's _interface_ using %MAKETEXT. However that doesn't lent over to translating Foswiki _content_. This is best achieved using %TRANSLATE as part of MultiLingualPlugin.
%TRANSLATE can act as a drop-in replacement for %MAKETEXT while adding required features to do ...
[08:55]
GuilainCjast, gac410, could you put my in the only user group in weblate in order to just have suggest button available [08:57]
MichaelDaum(1) in place translations such as %TRANSLATE{"string" de="foo" fr="bar"}% and let the engine pick the right one [08:57]
GuilainCok MichaelDaum, seems to be coherent [08:57]
MichaelDaum(2) separate translations into topics for each language and let the engine pick the right topic
depending on the browser's language settings
NatSkin comes with an interface build on top of MultiLingualPlugin to bootstrap new topic translations based on a previous one
"More" -> "Translate this topic" -> "select language" -> "new topic" or "select existing topic"
see https://demo.michaeldaumconsulting.com/bin/view/Knowledge/CrossLingualWikiEngine
there's a related topic holding the german translation.
see the flag(s) at the top right of the browser window
[08:58]
GuilainCIMHO, translation by mixing all the lang for documentation (System web) in a same topic will be very illisble, I would prefer each lang one topic as you tell in the (2)
GuilainC take a look
[09:05]
that's nice MichaelDaum (I'm on your demo) [09:10]
MichaelDaumtry creating a french translation of CrossLingualWikiEngine [09:11]
GuilainCI'm working on
but I'm trying to find the good word for CrossLingual ;) in french... not so easy
[09:13]
MichaelDaumGuilainC, https://www.linguee.com/english-french/translation/cross-lingual.html [09:21]
GuilainCI've found it :) [09:21]
MichaelDaummaybe there's something in there that matches [09:21]
GuilainCdon't worry :) [09:21]
MichaelDaumhow do you call it in French? [09:21]
GuilainCtranslingue [09:22]
MichaelDaum, I've just began translation for testing..
but a question in the case of the whole System web translation
how do it with this web, while the system web is made under git
and not edit in wiki
[09:36]
MichaelDaumyou'd first create the translation topics and then check them in to git [09:42]
GuilainChum... ok
no so bad, we can imagine that all foswiki install can submit correction
s/correction/corrections and translations/
[09:43]
MichaelDauma web-based "git commit" would be nice though
just to prevent having to use the cmdline
[09:45]
GuilainCyes I think about something like that
one click submit
probably not on the master branch for avoid intempestive submit in the master branch
and by hand pickup from this branch to put in master
[09:50]
MichaelDaum,
in https://github.com/foswiki/distro/blob/master/NatEditPlugin/templates/editdialog.natedit.tmpl#L48
Editable mean the ability to edit
isn't it
?
[09:57]
MichaelDaumyes
it adds a %EDITTABLE% in front
[09:57]
GuilainCthere was a confusion in french translation between edittable and editable [10:01]
MichaelDaumoic [10:02]
RaulFRGuilainC, where is that string ? [10:02]
GuilainChttps://github.com/foswiki/distro/blob/master/NatEditPlugin/templates/editdialog.natedit.tmpl#L48
probably a fuzzy translation
the best could be to disable this feature, not sure if it helps
[10:03]
RaulFRthe maketexte containts this %MAKETEXT{"Editable"}%
maketext*
with a choice yes/no afterwards
the user is given a choce to create a table that can be modified while viewing the copic
topic*
since this is a menu item, I believe a simple "Modifiable" would do
[10:04]
GuilainCi put Modifiable in french [10:05]
RaulFRin French
yes
[10:05]
GuilainCand it was "Modifier le tableau"
you see, there is a gap between them, like Editable and Edittable
i think that the fuzzy feature make a close search because in the same thing there is confusion with "form" and "from" for gettext is the same
[10:05]
RaulFR"Modifier le tableau" is wrong there, was that a fuzzy translation ? [10:06]
GuilainCI don't think so
but I forgot to check if it fuzzy or not
:)
[10:06]
RaulFRdon't trust fuzzy translations for anything :-) they are 90% of the times wrong
btw "translingue" seems weird in French language
[10:07]
GuilainCthats why I say to weblate maintener if it's really need to keep and use this function, does she help translation ? or make it more confusing ?
ah ?
Please give your translation
[10:08]
jastI've turned off automatic locking [10:14]
GuilainCgreat jast !
and do you put me, only in the user group, in order to make me only suggestion
and no "save"
[10:14]
jastwe don't have a suggestion-only group right now [10:15]
GuilainCah oops
I think that gac tell me a such thing
[10:15]
jastI've created a group like that and changed your membership [10:17]
GuilainCgreat jast, work well
!
what i've understand about the last night irc chat, is to do the samething for having same process than with pootle
see the page TranslatorsTeam
for getting who is coordinator, and who is "just" translator
[10:18]
jast is there any possibilty to set up by default comment for translators and not for the "source string" ? I think we made more comments on the translation than on the souce file
for me...
[10:25]
I've add my in this page
for f.o admin, is there a possible to see last connexion timestamp of these people ?
for identifying if there are still present or not
[10:33]
RaulFRGuilainC, the proper criteria, I think, would be to check if they have subscribed to the translators mailing list, since all of them must have been invited to do so, and check if they have registered with the translation platform [10:39]
GuilainCgood idea [10:39]
RaulFRrather that logging in to f.o [10:39]
GuilainCbut for example I'm subscribed to the mailing list, but I receive no message... (or last one was there is more than 2 years...) I've reset my account perhaps it will help, we will see. [10:41]
RaulFRthe peoper list is foswiki-translations@lists.sourceforge.net
proper*
checking the persons subscribed to it requires admin priviledge, held by the persons mentioned at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/foswiki-translations (see bottom of the page)
the 1st message the list was in May 2014, this one: http://sourceforge.net/p/foswiki/mailman/foswiki-translations/?viewmonth=201405
to* the list
[10:42]
GuilainCthanks RaulFR, I will ask gac to check my subscription [10:46]
RaulFRyou can subscribe yourself
you don't need him to do it
use the 1st link provided there
[10:46]
GuilainCI'm already subscribed... since many years
but for any reason in 2 years I've received only one message, that's why I said, i will check with gac to confirm that I'm still in the list :)
[10:49]
RaulFRthat's a low traffic list: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=foswiki-translations
the history mentioned there goes back to 2014 only, and up to now, there are 4 messages in total
[10:53]
jastthere was a message sent to it a few days ago [11:01]
RaulFRjast, yes, I did receive George's message dated 25/02/2015 16:01 [11:03]
GuilainCme not, but i was in digest mode
and I've correct this, 2 days ago so I think it will be ok now
[11:04]
jastshould be fine, then [11:12]
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RaulFRRaulFR has to go
bye all
[11:27]
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GuilainCjast I think we have a snake biting its tail... in weblate
i'm only able to suggest
if i go to dashboard, and then go back for translation
it purpose the translation again, where i've done a suggestion
is there any possible to "suppress" of my view, the sentence I've already suggested ?
I've found that setting offset=xx (where xx is my last string translated) in url enable me to get back where i was before stop
[12:01]
GuilainC is now unsure about this last one hack (offset=...) sems to not be good [12:14]
ok that's a strange behavior of weblate
if you have an untranslated string
and this one have an previus translation (foswiki v1.1 for example)
and then clic on this previus translation (imagine, it's good and have to be kept)
then, you switch from untranslated string to the all string category
and perturb so your work
(because all string category contain string already translated...)
[12:28]
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***ChanServ sets mode: +o Lynnwood [12:58]
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ChanServ sets mode: +o gac410 [13:50]
gac410hey all ... I'm awake again. I see some translations progress. And moved to suggest --> approve flow.
Re "Prior translators" we don't have any sort of "last activity" log. So no way to know . I'm working on another email directly to the translators. I've already extracted emails from foswiki .htpasswd file.
[13:55]
GuilainCjast already put me in simple user group so I've only suggest button that's what we have conclue with RaulFR
and good moring ;)
[13:56]
gac410Yes I was reading the logs :) [13:56]
GuilainCmorning [13:56]
gac410good morning
foswiki-translations was a new email list I started last summer. The list of original translators is at http://foswiki.org/Community/TranslationTeam
[13:56]
GuilainCfor me is more siesta ;) [13:57]
gac410So GuilainC You should add your wikiname to list on http://foswiki.org/Community/TranslationTeam for languages you want to translate. [13:58]
GuilainCalready done ;)
gac410,
take a coffe
i do this morning around 9 am ;)
[13:58]
gac410I'm going to go through and add a checkbox next to their name if they are on the list & Registered to weblate. Ah.. sorry, didn't read the topic yet. [13:59]
GuilainCyw ;)
i read irc log at the morning
before newspaper :) and with my thea...
[14:00]
gac410so did I ... but very quick read. but after newspaper :) [14:01]
GuilainCcheckbox could be good for identifying who is still present [14:01]
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gac410Okay, I think I've synced up the TranslationTeam page with the mailing list and weblate. MichaelDaum Are you going to be the German language coordinator now? I added you to the list. You also need to subscribe to foswiki-translations [14:19]
MichaelDaumI am not keen on coordination, more on contributing
thanks for adding me to the t-team
[14:20]
gac410Okay. Does anyone know AndreUlrich? He is the former overall and german language coordinator. I've sent him 3 emails with no response.
Maybe I'm getting trapped in a spam filter, so if someone already has a contact please find out if he has interest in coordinating.
[14:21]
MichaelDaumMichaelDaum trying to reach Andre via facebook chat [14:23]
gac410okay. So we need a new prime for the german language translations. Decision maker when there is disagreement on a translation. [14:27]
MichaelDaumAndre just answered on fb-chat, that he won't be continuing on translations. he is currently quite busy and didn't have time to answer [14:27]
gac410Okay good. At least we know. For the German translations. we have active: OliverKrueger, you, and Jast too I guess. We have a choice. Let anyone "translate", or declare one or more language coordinators with "Translate" authority, and everyone else can only "suggest" [14:29]
TarboxI think it would be ironic if you didn't go with WikiCulture on your translation project. [14:30]
MichaelDaumevery approved user shoud be able to translate ... keep the red tape as short as possible [14:31]
gac410Okay. That was my take as well. The old Pootle translate had designated translators. RaulFR prefers to keep french running in that mode. [14:31]
GuilainCyes, but only french translation have me ! :) :) [14:32]
MichaelDaumis it possible to run different languages in different modes? [14:32]
GuilainCothers language have better people
MichaelDaum, it's only two groups
two role
in what i've understand
[14:32]
MichaelDaumah ok [14:33]
GuilainCexactly gac410 ? [14:33]
gac410It's a per-user decision. So if a user has translate rights, they can translate *any* of the languages.
RaulFR requested that he formally review French, so we moved GuilainC out of the AuthorizedUsers group. But for the authorized users, like you Michael, it's honor system that you don't translate French :)
My take is anybody who was experienced in the old Pootle system translating 1.0 & 1.1 foswiki should get "Authorized" status. New users without "reputation" established get suggest authority for now.
[14:33]
GuilainCsounds good [14:35]
gac410And only if a language coordinator requests that a user not have translate authority do we remove auth [14:36]
GuilainCwe can practice the no answer is ok
by default new is simple translator, and if no coordinator or no answer from the coordinator is move into the coordinator
i think coordinator is wrong word, it's seems to be more authority person in a determinated language
[14:36]
TarboxIt's good marketing though. [14:38]
MichaelDaumapprover [14:39]
TarboxQA [14:39]
gac410I think the big challenge with translations is differences in regional dialects. So having some established way of deciding is good, to avoid translation wars. [14:41]
GuilainCyes, but before wars, there is always discussions, and people are needed for making war (even an army), foswiki is small project i don't see so many people :)
but in weblate, there is a lake of chatting (asynchronous meaning), and voting for this kind of translation "wars"
and too,
[14:43]
gac410Right. There are also discussion pages on Foswiki.org. Not many though. http://foswiki.org/Community/SwedishTranslation also Dutch [14:46]
GuilainCI don't know for the others language but I've seen that weblate fuzzy translation was very awful
I'ven't discuss with RaulFR with that, but I will be very happy if we can desactivate at least for french
[14:46]
gac410Part of that is from "gettext". For example when I moved the colon to inside the strings, they matched up but changed to fuzzy.
so "Email Addresses" changed to "Email Addresses:" flagged as fuzzy. I have no idea how gettext decides when to do that vs. just call it a new string.
But that is nothing to do with weblate
[14:47]
MichaelDaumsuch as /təˈmɑːtəʊ/ vs /təˈmeɪtoʊ/ [14:49]
GuilainCok :( [14:49]
gac410The number of green checkmarks on TranslationTeam is very low. If anyone has any personal contacts with any of the old translators, please reach out to them
I'm composing an email that I will BCC to all of them using their registered foswiki email, but as with Andre, it may take more personal contact to get an answer.
[14:53]
Hm...another "DoS" page, we might want to restrict or disarm http://foswiki.org/Main/PersonalInfo?raw=on It's indexed on google as a real search: ?section=phoneListXML;skin=xml [15:04]
The only person on the Translation list that I've been unable to find any contact information for is DiegoRamosNuñez I've poked around through our announce/discuss lists too.
Anyone know anything about him?
[15:15]
GuilainCabsolutly not...
is there any possibility that is foswiki account had been deleted
move into trash web ?
[15:27]
gac410No, I don't think so. The name was in the table with a ! to stop linking, Not sure when that happened. Not worth the effort to look back in 64 revisions to find it.
Email to the previous translators going out now. I've requested direct response of interested or not interested. At least if they bounce we'll know who else to drop.
[15:29]
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gac410Hey all. Don't forget, this Monday March 9, 1300Z Release Meeting. I would like for us to agree on a target date for Beta 1.
I'm composing an email to foswiki-discuss reminding users to please try one of the Nightly alpha builds.
[16:19]
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GuilainCGuilainC receive email from George Clark, who is ? ;) [16:37]
gac410Me [16:38]
GuilainCI know :) [16:39]
gac410okay. [16:39]
For Monday's release meeting. Could everyone review http://foswiki.org/Tasks/TasksByRelease?state=Waiting+for+Feedback&state=Confirmed&state=Proposal+Required&state=Being+Worked+On&release=1.2.0&checkins=All
This is everything that someone wanted to get into 1.2, or has partial work on 1.2. We need to decide if simple fixes should be pushed into 1.2, or defer to 1.2.1
And anything with checkins needs to either eventually be "Waiting for release", or closed if we don't want to document in the release notes.
[16:47]
GuilainCgac410, is there a way for suppress a suggestion ? [16:49]
gac410What do you mean? [16:49]
GuilainCI've made a mistake in my sugestion
suggestion
[16:50]
gac410prevent it from showing? Remove it? Ah. no idea. [16:50]
GuilainCi go back to the untranslated string [16:50]
gac410Will it let you make another one? [16:50]
GuilainCand i can't remove it
yes I've made three
because on the second i've still made a mistake... :(
not still, but made too
[16:50]
gac410What's the string being translated. Can you post the URL to the string
I can sign in as admin, maybe clean it up for you.
[16:51]
GuilainChttp://translate.foswiki.org/projects/foswiki/distribution-master/fr/translate/?sid=18812b30-c357-11e4-9dc6-0201be1ff919&offset=137
don't worry
I'm looking for an user tips
if admin have to do that, it will be overbooked quickly ! :)
[16:51]
gac410Hm the link didn't take me to a string. Wow you've been busy. 139 strings with suggestions, [16:52]
GuilainCwhat do you mean I'm slow ?
1hour and half
GuilainC think that he needs to change his laptop for having weblate little be more responding..
thinks
!
[16:53]
gac410No. 139 strings appears to me to be a lot of work. I think you are fast. [16:54]
GuilainCoups hop i do well
!
[16:55]
gac410Is this the string More on hiding attachments [16:55]
GuilainCmy aim is to finish before tomorow evening
my aim or my goal ?
[16:55]
gac410either works [16:55]
GuilainC"More character formats"
3 suggestions last one is what I want to keep
More can be translate in two different manner in french like "plus" (same in english) or "autre" (other)
[16:56]
gac410Okay So keep Autres formafficherts le code sourctexte Oops. That's a diff
That's the last suggestion I see.
So delete suggestion starting Plus de form
[16:58]
GuilainCkeep last one
AutreS formatS
the "s" has importance here
[16:59]
gac410okay [16:59]
GuilainC:) [16:59]
gac410Done [16:59]
GuilainCmany thanks
perhaps i'm quicker for translating than for making deb package :)
quicker or better depends on what RaulFR will say
[17:01]
gac410:) [17:03]
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MichaelDaum: Did you see http://foswiki.org/Support/Question1557 [17:28]
MichaelDaumy [17:29]
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GuilainChm...
what's the diff between the plugin module
and plugin
?
in english
[20:31]
gac410Do you have context? The term plugin is probably more generic. The "Plugin Module" would refer to the per module that implements the plugin. But the usage might not be strictly followed [20:33]
GuilainCsre : https://github.com/foswiki/distro/blob/master/core/templates/messages.tmpl#L491
hm perl module
[20:34]
gac410Okay that is a specific reference to the code. Yes. [20:35]
GuilainCin this case I would prefer read in englis
english
the perl module of the plugin
...
[20:35]
gac410So the initialization subroutine of SomePlugin.pm failed to return true. [20:35]
GuilainCah
ok..
even in english i don't understand !
i need example for understand of which module we speak about
ok
[20:35]
gac410When Foswiki calls lets say DirectedGraphPlugin and asks it to initialize, say the init routine discovers that there is a problem (graphviz is not installed) so it returns "false" which would trigger this error [20:37]
GuilainCunderstand
but, perhaps the english message should be updated to be more precise
[20:37]
gac410Each plugin. WysiwygPlugin TinyMCEPlugin BathWaterPlugin ... is initialized and must return true, or foswiki will never call the extensions. It could be for any reason. [20:38]
GuilainCI think it's me, I'm confusing
in english
plugin = extension
[20:38]
gac410One of those messages that hopefully should never occur. [20:38]
GuilainCplugin module = .pm file
perl dependencie = perl module use by extension
is the word you use ?
[20:38]
gac410Okay A Plugin is a special type of extension that takes an *active* role. (implements macros, modifies topic text, etc) The plugin code is implemented by the Plugin Module.
A "Skin" is another type of Extension that usually only has templates and topics for altering the "look" of foswiki And a "Contrib" is yet another type of extension, may have perl code, but more "core" than plugins. Store backend, Email backend, Logging backend, etc.
It is indeed very confusing, because there is a lot of overlap.
[20:39]
GuilainCok, i'm understand, you're very clear : do you think is there a topic in docu somewhere who explain this ? [20:43]
gac410I would not mention the dependency. The plugin *should* provide detailed diagnostics in the log. The message itself just says "Something went wrong" [20:43]
GuilainCok [20:43]
gac410Hm I think it is documented somewhere. let me look [20:44]
GuilainCstack diagram should be interesting... :) if i get time [20:44]
gac410http://foswiki.org/System/Plugins System/Contribs System/Skins 3 topics [20:45]
GuilainCi'm thinking about admin beginner
getting you word and the link between vocabulary in foswiki and level in installation could be increase the admin-friendly experience
[20:48]
jmk0stick the following in a wiki page: test="MooCow MooCow"
why does the first MooCow get treated as plaintext but the 2nd gets turned into a wikilink?
ok the answer is slightly obvious, it was more a "is this intended behavior" question
[20:49]
GuilainCspace before the second MooCow ?!
is a test ? or real question ?
[20:50]
jmk0real question
I want to know if that's WAI
[20:50]
gac410WikiWords auto-link based upon a starting and ending delimiter. The starting delim is a bit more strict than the end. [20:51]
GuilainCIMHO, [20:51]
jmk0apparently :) [20:51]
GuilainCyou need a space before make autolink
or other delimiter as gac410 says
and " seems to not be a delimiter.
...
ok good question :)
waiting for a guru answer
[20:51]
jmk0gac410 isn't a guru? [20:53]
GuilainCGuilainC has found the first good fuzzy suggestion ! 1/200 :)
yes it is :)
[20:54]
gac410The regular expression that does wikiword delimiter is really tough to read. qr/^|(?<=[\s\(])/m; It uses a "look-behind" I have to get out the book to read these things guru status or not. And I *never* claim to be a guru. Sets self up for failure [20:54]
jmk0:) [20:54]
GuilainCwe claim for you :) [20:55]
gac410So it needs a start-of-line, or a space, or open paren. [20:55]
GuilainCbut ",WikiWord" should works [20:55]
jmk0every time i've wanted to use a look-ahead/behind, I've been using sed which doesn't support it :-/ [20:55]
GuilainC; and . I think [20:55]
gac410No... lookbehind is specific for [\s\(] so space or open paren.
not \b which is a word boundary. \s whitespace.
[20:56]
jmk0reason for that? [20:59]
gac410jeeze I hate looking at Render.pm the End wikiword delmiter is actually not used for matching wikiwords. So anything that starts with a lookbehind wikiword delimiter, and then *is* a wikiword, (no ending delimiter) will autolink. [21:00]
GuilainCGuilainC made a test
ok, you right
[21:00]
gac410Why whitespace, no idea. What is is. It's been that way since early TWiki days, and I don't pretend to have any idea why. Changes are very very dangerous, annoys lots of people.
Probably some compromise as to how much is autolinked and how much is not. If I18N ever really starts seriously, there is some question on whether any WikiWord concepts survive. Not all languages / character sets are bicameral Concept of WikiWord is a fail.
[21:01]
jmk0hadn't thought of that [21:03]
gac410damn bicameral wrong word. [21:03]
jmk0perhaps but i think i got the intended meaning right :) [21:03]
GuilainCbut if we really need to get test="MooCow MooCow" two in wikiword you can make test="[[MooCow]] [[MooCow]]" [21:04]
jmk0def wrong word, though :)
sure
[21:04]
GuilainCbicameral ?
GuilainC take a look of goole
[21:04]
jmk0I don't really need it as such, it was just something I noticed [21:04]
gac410Nope. word is correct. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_case#Bicameral_script [21:04]
jmk0ah.. when i looked it up it only mentioned governing bodies [21:05]
GuilainCah ok.
same as jmk0 :)
[21:06]
gac410jmk0: yes sometimes the rules for wikiword auto linking can seem really confusing. [21:06]
jmk0i think other wikis don't do wikiwords at all, you have to do [[something]] or [[[something-something]]].. which I don't much like, personally :) [21:06]
gac410yeah same here. first hit legislative. But I was sure I dug into this one other time. when pondering translations,. :) [21:07]
jmk0I prefer autolinking... it lets us be lazy [21:07]
GuilainCfoswiki will be an i18n wiki for bicameral language only... what's the problem !! :) (it's a joke) [21:07]
gac410Right. With foswiki you can turn off autolinking mostly. Supposedly our system web should always use explicit [[links]] so that a customer can disable auto linking and still have a useful system web.
There is an open task out there somewhere in the weeds complaining that the default webs are not NOAUTOLINK ready.
[21:08]
jmk0.... oops. I'm pretty sure my plugin docs don't do that, and i suspect I'm not alone in that [21:08]
gac410You are in very good company. I would not be surprised to find a lot of examples [21:09]
GuilainCgac410, sometime I seems that you complain about the lot of topic in foswiki and organisation etc.. When i was structuring mass information in a wiki I use web directed graph, weborphans and so. I don't think there are installed on foswiki, Then to see if I can bring something here (in structuring the information) is there any possibility to download raw web directory for mounting them into my local install and try to find what
could be improved ?
[21:15]
gac410Hm. Bulk download would have to be carefully considered. There are topics here and there that are view restricted. [21:18]
GuilainCok, understand
no problem
only think about it
[21:19]
gac410We have a lot of non-default extensions on foswiki.org, but really do try to minimize what is installed. so the foswiki.org is closer to the "out of box" experience.
Than and we don't want to burden our volunteer sysadmin in maintaining extra software.
[21:19]
GuilainCan other way is make a crawl of the root... :) and then analyse on html page, i will not do it by the wiki itself but i've want to try some software who done this :)
that's why i thinking more in a raw directory download
but is there is some security reason... doesn't matter
security or privacy or discretion
good reason ;)
[21:20]
gac410Well the raw=all url param will pull the topics. But System web is available in the git clone. Nothing too secret tere.
there
So actually even an analysis of our default System web as shipped would be helpful. I was trying to restructure it to help make topics "task oriented" and got very lost.
It's a problem with any documentation that "grows over time" People add new topics, but don't remove the old.
[21:21]
GuilainCthis the problem with wiki
:)
I spent 5 years to continuously structuring the content
:)
ok
I will first make some try on system web
[21:23]
gac410CrawfordCurrie (CDot) just made a pass of System web a few weeks ago. Eliminated a lot of redundant topics. TopicMarkupLanguage EditingShorthand and a few others all folded together.
But the admin topics are in need of some help too.
[21:24]
GuilainCon this subject, I've some submission to dp for the documentation (twisty in bullet list and yesterday somone add some details for configuring xsendfile under apache) [21:25]
gac410This close to release. I'd recommend doing any major restructuring in a branch, so we can review and merge. Smaller fixes are fine. [21:26]
GuilainCGuilainC putting this on his list between two debian package build attempts... [21:26]
gac410:)
WikiRingBot: seen SvenDowideit
[21:26]
WikiRingBotWikiRingBot has last seen SvenDowideit 23 Feb 2015 - 06:22 GMT on #foswiki ... joined channel #foswiki
WikiRingBot has last seen SvenDowideit2 5 May 2014 - 12:33 GMT on #wikiring ... known as SvenDowideit now
WikiRingBot has last seen SvenDowideit3 13 Apr 2014 - 01:55 GMT on #foswiki ... is hating heartbleed, so very many things i need to turn off
WikiRingBot has last seen SvenDowideit4 12 Apr 2014 - 15:08 GMT on #wikiring ... joined channel #wikiring
WikiRingBot has last seen SvenDowideit_ 3 Mar 2015 - 18:20 GMT on #foswiki ... joined channel #foswiki
[21:27]
GuilainCclose to this, have you see the proposal of MichaelDaum for system web multilingual ? [21:27]
WikiRingBotWikiRingBot has last seen SvenDowideit_Dro 24 Feb 2014 - 17:46 GMT on #foswiki ... known as SvenDowideit now
WikiRingBot has last seen SvenDowideit__ 11 Apr 2014 - 07:20 GMT on #wikiring ... joined channel #wikiring
[21:27]
GuilainCfor me, SvenDowideit seems to be a bot now... [21:27]
gac410He communicates with email. He had to do the domain update for the translate.foswiki.org server change. But busy on docker project otherwise. [21:28]
GuilainCin http://foswiki.org/Community/TranslationTeam the stars is redundant with the title of the column
ok great !
if you can have his last deb build script i'm interested...
[21:28]
gac410true. I noticed that as well, but couldn't be bothered deleting them all. [21:28]
GuilainCI've change my approach : first build extension and then hope/try/attempt to build core
I want to go to a git control of package and upstream code
enable to go through the stable/testing/instable schema
[21:29]
gac410Yeah I've been hoping he sees the occasional discussions and mentions of his name. I didn't want to email him too often. [21:30]
GuilainCnormal, he has already make so many things for foswiki, each one have his life !
GuilainC get back to the translation
[21:30]
gac410ping SvenDowideit are you around? 7:30 AM in Brisbane You coming up for air any time? :) [21:31]
GuilainC:)
it's summer there and he's probably at the beach for his morning surf session... :D
[21:31]
gac410Okay, I got rid of the redundant stars on TranslationTeam [21:34]
GuilainCthere is no problem, if FrenchTranslation is written... in french ? [21:39]
gac410where are you referring to? [21:40]
GuilainCin : http://foswiki.org/Community/TranslationTeam
Dutch team have done this : http://foswiki.org/Community/DutchTranslation
they speak about dutch in english
i'm asking if i can speak about French translation in http://foswiki.org/Community/FrenchTranslation
in french
if it acceptable
allow
[21:43]
gac410Ah... that page is for french translators to communicate. Yes. write in French. [21:44]
...... (idle for 29mn)
GuilainCI think that for the next release, english word should be pick up from a glossary
too many words for the same meaning... perhaps i'm wrong...
[22:13]
gac410Weblate does have a glossary capability, I don't know much a bout them. I think Pootle did as well , but we didn't use that. I'll leave decisions like that up to those of you all doing translations,. [22:14]
GuilainCI more thinking for the developper
for when they making sentence they first pick up in a list
as user it seems i'm not allow to create/add glossary
[22:16]
gac410Damn. WysiwygPlugin is changing the order of URL params and anchors. [[SomeTopic?param=blah#gohere]] gets changed to [[SomeTopic#gohere?param=blah]] That's not right.
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-4.1
[22:18]
..... (idle for 22mn)
GithubBot[distro] gac410 pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/xAw6
distro/master 7d0a4b9 George Clark: Item13291: Anchor and Query params are swapped...
[22:41]
***GithubBot has left [22:41]
GuilainCGuilainC has found an second good fuzzy translation ! [22:41]
gac410And that's a unit test for a new urgent task. Another 1.2 blocker :P [22:41]
GuilainC:) [22:44]
gac410And of all the code in foswiki. Wysiwyg html/tml conversion is one of the most dangerous. I hate touching this stuff. [22:44]
GithubBot[distro] gac410 pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/xAiO
distro/master d3bd6f9 George Clark: Item13291: URL order is query then anchor...
[22:54]
***GithubBot has left [22:54]
gac410And this one was easy, and 1100 some odd unit tests still pass.
gac410 cooks dinner and waits for the fallout after touching a minefield,
[22:54]
GuilainC:) [22:57]
***i^2 has left [22:59]
...... (idle for 26mn)
GuilainCtired to translate, made mistake [23:25]
gac410yes... need me to remove another suggestion? [23:26]
GuilainCoh don't worry, RaulFR do it ! :)
and i think i will make some consistency search tomorow
even if tomorow i will be particularly booked
[23:31]
gac410okay. thanks for all your help on this. I'm very pleased that we are making progress on 1.2. Come on Beta!!! [23:32]
GuilainC:) [23:34]
..... (idle for 21mn)
directed web graph has failed on my local install timeout ;) [23:55]

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