#foswiki 2015-03-19,Thu

↑back Search ←Prev date Next date→ Show only urls(Click on time to select a line by its url)

WhoWhatWhen
gac410Actually looking at the diff's I wonder if it's just the bugs report email address. And fixing it in the .pot file will stabilize that. [00:02]
GithubBot[distro] gac410 pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/hBZQ
distro/master 25d8602 George Clark: Item13294: More string corrections...
[00:08]
***GithubBot has left [00:08]
GithubBot[distro] FoswikiBot pushed 1 new commit to Release01x01: http://git.io/hBnT
distro/Release01x01 fea894e Raul F Rodriguez: Item12813: Translated using Weblate (French)...
[00:09]
***GithubBot has left [00:09]
..... (idle for 24mn)
gac410Damn... okay HomePagePlugin seems to replace the web and topic when established by URL Param That's what's causing issues [00:33]
...... (idle for 28mn)
GithubBot[distro] gac410 pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/hBup
distro/master 28ebc00 George Clark: Item13312: Item13185: HomePagePlugin overrides params...
[01:01]
***GithubBot has left [01:01]
GithubBot[distro] gac410 pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/hB25
distro/master 5505a99 George Clark: Item13312: Unit test for urlparam overrides
[01:14]
***GithubBot has left [01:14]
.... (idle for 18mn)
GithubBot[distro] gac410 pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/hBra
distro/master 7a13742 George Clark: Item13312: Note where override might happen.
[01:32]
***GithubBot has left [01:32]
.................................... (idle for 2h58mn)
gac410 has left [04:30]
............................. (idle for 2h21mn)
ChanServ sets mode: +o CDot [06:51]
................... (idle for 1h33mn)
ChanServ sets mode: +o MichaelDaum [08:24]
GithubBot[distro] FoswikiBot pushed 8 new commits to master: http://git.io/hR1N
distro/master dc29d58 Raul F Rodriguez: Item13252: Translations updated using Weblate (French)...
distro/master 190feaa Guilain Cabannes: Item13252: Translations updated using Weblate (French)...
distro/master 3bd74cf Raul F Rodriguez: Item13252: Translations updated using Weblate (French)...
[08:38]
***GithubBot has left [08:38]
GithubBot[distro] FoswikiBot pushed 1 new commit to Release01x01: http://git.io/hRMe
distro/Release01x01 c2482da Martin Dahlem: Item12813: Translated using Weblate (Danish)...
[08:39]
***GithubBot has left [08:39]
................... (idle for 1h32mn)
GuilainCis there somewhere a meeting report of the foswiki camp 2014 ? [10:11]
....... (idle for 33mn)
GithubBot[distro] cdot pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/h0OY
distro/master fb16d21 Comment: Item13309: TablePlugin is pretty stupid when it comes to recognising header rows. Help it out.
distro/master ea35dd2 Comment: Item13309: correct sort column to account for ERP pseudo-colum
[10:44]
***GithubBot has left [10:44]
CDotGuilainC: yes.... somewhere..... [10:45]
GuilainCoh great cdot ! it's exist !
:)
I've only found FoswikiCamp2014 and the discussion page associated
[10:46]
CDotGuilainC: what were you hoping for? An awful lot happened, but it all ended up in tasks/feature requests [10:49]
GuilainCok, I was hoping to find and understand how it's was be...
catch the feeling :)
don't worry
[10:50]
***ChanServ sets mode: +o RaulFR [10:50]
GuilainCthanks for the information [10:50]
RaulFRhello all :-)
hey GuilainC :-)
[10:50]
GuilainChello RaulFR [10:52]
RaulFRGuilainC, do you know in what context this string can be seen in NatEdit https://github.com/foswiki/distro/blob/master/NatEditPlugin/templates/edit.natedit.tmpl#L10
you translated it to "nouvelle", which is "new" in feminine form
[10:52]
GuilainChum... one of my several mistakes ?! :) let me see [10:53]
RaulFRbut really it is unclear to me exactly how this string is used [10:53]
GuilainChum this one telle me something, I think i've take time before suggest my translation, let me some time for finding why [10:54]
RaulFRit looks like it related to Topics, which we translate to a feminine word, but it all looks very strange to be, and something is missing for me to properly understand the use of that "new"
to me*
[10:54]
GuilainCnot sure now...
GuilainC scratches his head...
[10:55]
RaulFRthe string is next to "edit" and in a else="%IF{"istopic '%WEB%.%TOPIC%'"
then="%MAKETEXT{"edit"}%"
else="%MAKETEXT{"new"}%"
[10:57]
CDotGuilainC: that very much depends on the participants. Last year, we rolled up our shirt sleeves and had a hackfest, with people identifying areas of interest and working either alone or together with others, and constantly making use of discussions with other participants on the best approaches, tapping people's experience etc etc [10:57]
RaulFRif that related to "edit"(ing) a topic or create(ing) a new one
then I believe "new" is not a proper term
[10:57]
MichaelDaumRaulFR, "new", "edit" or "restore" is put into brackets and appended to the h1 title in the edit window
e.g. Some Topic Title (new)
if you edit again it is: Some Topic Title (edit)
if you restore it from history it is: Some Topic Title (restore)
[10:59]
GuilainCGuilainC del what he was writting... seeing the MichaelDaum answer [11:01]
RaulFRok, I see now
thanks Michael
[11:01]
GuilainCMichaelDaum, is a new option of natedit ? [11:02]
RaulFRGuilainC, edit Community.FrenchTranslation [11:03]
GuilainCbut in this case RaulFR, i've mis translated one more time ;) [11:03]
RaulFRGuilainC, you will see that on top of the browser window, there is a title "FrenchTranslation (edit)"
GuilainC, which conveys that the Topic we are on is "FrenchTranslation" and that it is being edited
I believe that when you enter editing mode by clicking on a red link (a non existing topic), it will read "TheNewTopicName (new)"
in that context, since we don't know if the topic name is masculine or feminine, I believe we should stick to masculine
GuilainC, it is ok we all make mistakes
[11:04]
GuilainCyou're right if case of doubt, masculine is best
i don't find the context of this code... is at the top of the browser ?
oh it's at the top top top above natedit ?
ok
i get it !
[11:08]
RaulFRyes [11:10]
GuilainCis it really useful ?
but it's an other subject ;)
[11:10]
RaulFRI believe it is [11:11]
GuilainCi don't speak about the translation but the function to precise if is a new topic we edit, on of the multiple edit in the topic life cycle, or an restored topic edition [11:13]
MichaelDaumyes it is used intensively
i.e. derived edit templates indicate the type of topic being edited
such as: Foo Bar (edit project)
when creating a new topic "Foo Bar" which is holding a DataForm for a Project
but then all of the string is to be translated for that specific wiki application (%MAKETEXT{"edit project"}%)
... which is not of your concern translating strings for the core
[11:13]
GuilainChum, it's possible to have some utility, but for a simple user, does this information enable the user to make different action, or behavior ?
for eg. (the user speak to himself in his head) : "oh i'm editing a restore topic, thanks i could do something special"
or in the same manner : "oh i'm editing a topic restored, I don't remember what i was doing"
[11:17]
MichaelDaumit indicates the process he is about to perform [11:18]
GuilainCplease consider that is an extrem thinking ;)
just for pushing to the limits :)
[11:18]
MichaelDaum"edit an existing topic", "create a new topic", "restore an old revision of a topic"
so the user gets help when he is asking himself: "what the f* am I doing here?"
[11:18]
GuilainCok, in ergonomics point of view, the best to localise a step in a process is at least, show the step before, the step after, and put highlight on the step considered
at least, because the best is enable the user to navigate/fly into the whole process (when it's usefull for him)
but ok, MichaelDaum, some one use it !
so that's useful :)
[11:19]
MichaelDaumthere is a clear sequence of actions that the user performs: (1) click edit button (2) edit existing topic (3) save
or (1) click new button (2) create a new topic (3) save
or (1) look up history (2) select previous revision (3) click restore button (4) edit old revision (5) save
so having a "new" indicator part of the editor tells the user that he clicked "new" before
same for "edit" and "restore"
[11:20]
GuilainCwell understand, not sure this is an effective solution (i.e. the right things for the feature)
many thanks for these precisions :)
[11:30]
RaulFRGuilainC, when you click on "edit" next to a form, you get a similar message on top, telleing you you are editing a form
this is not a feature particular to NatEdit
[11:30]
............ (idle for 55mn)
***ChanServ sets mode: +o Lynnwood [12:26]
ChanServ sets mode: +o Lynnwood_ [12:35]
..... (idle for 24mn)
ChanServ sets mode: +o gac410 [12:59]
gac410Hey CDot ... only reason I added you to Item13185 was it's all checked in, I'm about to close it. Figured you might want to add your opinions on the solution. It's a pretty critical area.
Unit tests pass and trunk has not blown up, so I'll just close it.
[13:05]
CDot:-) [13:05]
gac410gac410 needs to make a decision ... do I build a formal beta 1 this weekend, or put it off to give translators more time, and time to address blockers.
Ah... Do we need a reminder email to go out about tomorrow's Association meeting?
[13:16]
***gac410 changes topic to: Annual Foswiki Association meeting: Friday 20th March 2015 at 1300Z ... Release Meeting Monday 23 March 1300Z Channel logs: http://tinyurl.com/7atzrpz [13:18]
MichaelDaumgac410, CDot, how do we deal with http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13302
this is causing me headaches
[13:21]
gac410gac410 doesn't know much about UTF8 unfortunately. Can we safely just switch this off for the non-utf8 folks as well? [13:22]
MichaelDaumit needs two things to repro: (1) the latest CGI.pm, (2) set {Site}{CharSet} = 'utf-8'
before feeding anything to CGI to render an input field for a user-provided string we have to decode them
$fieldValue = Encode::decode($Foswiki::cfg{Site}{CharSet}, $fieldValue);
otherwise utf-8 strings will be fucked up by CGI's autoEscape
however I am not sure how this affects non-utf-8ies
[13:24]
gac410So when we load CGI, do we use the autoEscape(0) command to disable escaping? [13:27]
MichaelDaumthat's causing other problems such as escapes that we need very well, such as quotes
you can't get only one switching off the other
[13:27]
gac410wonderful. [13:28]
MichaelDaumeither (1) all auto-escaping is off - and then you'll need to escape quotes n stuff yourself - or (2) we provide properly decoded strings to CGI in a way it doesn't freak it up
this is a very important thing to get right. you get it wrong and edit in your wiki is broken.
[13:29]
gac410Do you know what CGI changed? Is it more aggressive in escaping formfields? [13:30]
MichaelDaumthe issue only started showing up as I updated my local perl ... getting a CGI.pm > 4.0
this is very serious
as anybody on an RPM-based Linux will have to use a local per ... and get a CGI > 4.0
^local per^local perl
[13:31]
gac410Or we go back to shipping a known good CGI and put it at the top of the libpath :(
I think jast runs utf8 too ... is he running into this?
MichaelDaum: Is this related to the note in CGI that HTML generation is deprecated and should not be used. Is the issue we are using CGI to generate the form HTML?
gac410 is reading the CGI changelog.
[13:33]
MichaelDaumpart of yes
we probably need to switch to something like https://metacpan.org/pod/HTML::Element or https://metacpan.org/pod/HTML::Tag
[13:36]
gac410I think this sounds like it answers my question. Enough of a blocker to delay Beta 1. [13:41]
RaulFRjast, gac410 the Weblate strings are still out of sync with the actual content of the Git repository (just a reminder) I have 6 strings left to translate, and these are relating to changed or removed strings
RaulFR has almost finished
RaulFR dances
[13:42]
GithubBot[distro] FoswikiBot pushed 6 new commits to master: http://git.io/hEkM
distro/master 6211273 Raul F Rodriguez: Item13252: Translations updated using Weblate (French)...
distro/master ebf8d7b Guilain Cabannes: Item13252: Translations updated using Weblate (French)...
distro/master 077b128 Raul F Rodriguez: Item13252: Translations updated using Weblate (French)...
[13:48]
***GithubBot has left [13:48]
gac410RaulFR: weblate should be in sync. xgettext doesn't make any changes, so should be all up to date. [13:49]
MichaelDaum: Html::Tag has 1 review, extremely negative. HTML::Element has no reviews. (The review link on metacpan takes you to HTML::Tree for some reason) [13:55]
MichaelDaumgac410, HTML::Element has got lots of reverse dependencies ... that is it is used by a lot of other projects
Html::Tag is nicely programmed...in that you could learn from it how to write your own Foswiki::Render::HTML
[13:56]
gac410CGI recommends template toolkit, but that sound like a brain transplant than a simple replacement for form generation. [13:57]
MichaelDaumnever used HTML::Element .... can't say much about it
ya
[13:57]
gac410The one review of HTML::Tag was from 2005. So that's pretty useless to consider. http://cpanratings.perl.org/dist/HTML-Tag [13:59]
MichaelDaumthe only bits that we need a pm for are form related ... the rest isn't critical and should better be done using good old string concat [13:59]
gac410Not maintained since 2007, but no open bugs either. So that doesn't sound bad. [14:00]
MichaelDaummy $html = <<"HERE"...HERE; $html =~ s/\$value/$value/g; .... etc [14:00]
gac410gac410 wonders if we should create Foswiki::Render::HTML And then use that one module to call out to HTML::Tag, try to make it somewhat pluggable. [14:01]
MichaelDaumthere are some CGI html generators that exceed the normal HTML functions... for eg. the stuff we use to render radio and combo boxes for.
HTML::Tag has got some highly questionable perl dependencies ... that are not of much use for us
such as Tie::IxHash; and Class::AutoAccess;
Tie::IxHash is only there to preserve order of keys in perl hashes ... what for
[14:01]
gac410Yeah. I just was checking them If we can avoid adding more deps, that would be preferable. [14:03]
MichaelDaumClass::AutoAccess generates $object->myPropertiy() for any $objectg->{myProperty}
also ... what for
these two are only there for sugar
[14:03]
gac410Y. And looking at code, the review that is generates UPPERCASE tags seems correct.. Ugly. [14:05]
MichaelDaumHTML::Tag assumes that what you want resolves on a per-tag basis
however rendering our checkboxes and radio boxes generates a complete table with input fields inside
[14:06]
gac410Looks also that it includes javascript. DATE tag references 'html_tag_datetime_loader.js
RaulFR ... Is the repo now in sync with the source?
Hm... no it's not. Something has gone wrong. jast are you around?
The remaining untranslated strings in the French language are actually not in the Foswiki.pot or fr.po files. So the weblate database is not reflecting of the actual source.
[14:06]
According to the language scripts, French has 8 fuzzy, and 2 untranslated. Weblate says 6 untranslated, and 4 fuzzy. [14:25]
jastprobably a consequence of fixing the conflicts :/ [14:27]
gac410Were the conflicts in the po headers? I did add the missing header, so xgettext no longer changes the report email address [14:28]
jastone was in comments for a string
the report e-mail address wasn't the issue
Last-Translated-By changed a few times
[14:28]
gac410Strange. I've been really careful to make sure weblate is clean for commit, pull & push. Only then do I run xgettext. Then pull on weblate. [14:29]
jastthe other stupid bit is it line-wraps the Language-Team line differently each time, by one character [14:29]
foswiki_irc0hi everybody [14:29]
gac410we can just turn off maintance of Language-Team. It doesn't do much for us.
hi foswiki_irc0
[14:29]
jastsure, if you know how, go ahead [14:29]
gac410It's a checkbox on the subproject. [14:30]
jastI'm guessing Last-Translator is maintained by Weblate, too [14:30]
gac410Set Translation-Team header Whether the Translation-Team in file headers should be updated by Weblate. It's on the project level. [14:31]
jastokay, checkbox (on the project, actually) updated [14:31]
gac410Okay.
Last-Translator. is only maintained by weblate. I don't think xgettext touches it.
[14:31]
***bkni has left [14:31]
RaulFRgac410, jast, indeed it is not in sync, at least for French language [14:33]
gac410We need to figure out how to get some of the other languages underway. A few important ones have nobody signed up.
RaulFR: Other than really annoying, I don't think it is doing any harm. The out-of-sync strings are not in the fr.po file, so the actual translations are clean.
[14:33]
foswiki_irc0gac410 , did foswiki install on cpanel ? [14:34]
gac410foswiki_irc0: no idea. I've never looked at cpanel [14:34]
RaulFRI can probably help in Spanish, it looks like it is deserted according to the History there http://translate.foswiki.org/projects/foswiki/distribution-master/es/#history
WillNorris was in charge of it
[14:35]
foswiki_irc0ok
thanks
[14:35]
gac410Yeah. He used to be very active. I've sent him 2 emails with no response at all. But it's not bouncing. [14:36]
RaulFRbrb [14:36]
gac410I guess we need to do another plea to Foswiki-announce. Ask for translators for the orphaned languages.
MichaelDaum: (or anyone else) do you have any personal contacts with WillNorris or any of the other missing translators?
[14:38]
MichaelDaumnope Will has been absent from Foswiki for ages [14:40]
gac410To get 1.2 on par with 1.1, we need work on Dutch, Norwegian, Polish, Portuguese Spanish, Swedish.
At least those don't have anyone active
I sent Lars Eik an IM ... see if he is interested in translating Norwegian.
[14:45]
Lars is still willing to work on Norwegian. [14:55]
...... (idle for 26mn)
***ChanServ sets mode: +o CDot [15:21]
............ (idle for 58mn)
gac410CDot: Regarding the catch Error: Any concerns with my globally adding a catch Foswiki::OopsException with { shift->throw(); # propagate } clause
(Assuming Oops isn't already caught.)
[16:19]
Hm. not that simple ... [16:26]
....... (idle for 31mn)
I've reviewed all the catch Error with clauses. If they simply throw an oops, I added a catch & propagate for Oops to avoid masking lower level oops messages
If they did other significant processing, closing / cleanup, etc. I didn't mess with them. Also didn't change any that were calling non-foswiki functions.
[16:57]
....... (idle for 31mn)
GithubBot[distro] gac410 pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/hzJ0
distro/master 5444237 George Clark: Item13295: Propagate lower level Oops messages
[17:28]
***GithubBot has left [17:28]
GithubBot[distro] gac410 pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/hzUS
distro/master 54d347b George Clark: Item13252: xgettext run....
[17:31]
***GithubBot has left [17:31]
gac410CDot: I closed Item13295 - I think I added the Oops handling correctly. Unit tests still pass. [17:33]
CDotgac410: I knew you could do it. You knew what had to be done :-)
catch and propagate is absolutely the right approach.
[17:37]
....... (idle for 33mn)
gac410The only question is did I miss any. A lot of the Register ones appeared to be more geared to log and keep going, vs throwing errors. So I didn't intercept them.
Anyway, as with the URL path changes, this could all use review.
MichaelDaum: Are you going to attempt to figure out a fix for Item13302? It's really beyond me.
[18:11]
MichaelDaumI am trying ... but would love to get CDot's expertise on it [18:13]
gac410The changes in CGI are a real PITA.
first param-multi, now character escaping.
[18:14]
CDotI did look at removing all of CGI a while ago. Biiiiiig job.
MichaelDaum: with my hacker hat on, I'd say "did you consider monkey-patching CGI's escape function"?
[18:18]
MichaelDaumI never considered that [18:21]
....... (idle for 30mn)
gac410This single / double quote is going to drive me crazy. I'm attempting and failing to fix the loss of WikiSyntaxSummary
This is a big loss. It has a quick summary, and all strings are MAKETEXT translated.
Expanding the completed EditingShortand as wikitext (not natedit) help is pretty overwhelming.
I tried to make it an include section of EditingShortand and that works, but then the editor screen for wysiwyg goes into quote hell.
[18:51]
CDot: Unless you object, restoring WikiSyntaxSummary ... used in the old plain text editor help, would fix this, and has the advantage of having been translated. [19:00]
CDotI only dumped it because I couldn't be arsed rewriting it, IIRC
and it was badly wrong
[19:01]
gac410Really... a total of like 8 lines? that wrong?
litterally 8 lines describing bold, fixed, links, etc.
I don't see anything obviously wrong with it. https://github.com/foswiki/distro/blob/449b15157b733d3ae3f6772e9f9d358b8a2ef2db/core/data/System/WikiSyntaxSummary.txt
[19:02]
Hi CDot. I'm restoring it. I really don't see what's wrong, but I'll gladly work on fixing it ... just let me know what you see as the issues. Rather that than an "INCLUDE Not Found" using the wikitext editor. [19:14]
CDotit wasn't the content so much as the context it was used in, IIRC. It used to appear in WYSIWYG for one thing
and it seemed a bit pointless for NatEdit
ah, yes, I recall it took a lot of screen real-estate too
[19:15]
gac410Hm It shouldn't . The template only includes it if no other help is defined. It's only used when skin=pattern is set without nat edit.
Maybe it used to be at the top of editing Shorthand as well? Anyway, I'm only putting it back for the explici include in edit.tmpl when natedit skin is not active.
Otherwise we generate errors. (I had a test user with a SKIN= override, and spent hours trying to figure out why natedit was missing, and then why help was busted. :P
Probably the reason it was wasting space is because its redundant for english users. But fully translated wiki text help is probably valuable for non-english speakers
[19:16]
GithubBot[distro] gac410 pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/hgtI
distro/master d54fa8e George Clark: Item9693: Restore WikiSyntaxSummary...
[19:25]
***GithubBot has left [19:25]
gac410RaulFR, Unless jast did some magic, I think the repo has fixed itself with the xgettext runs. The 11 untranslated / fuzzy strings now have valid source locations, and the bogus ones like Url, and Upload are gone. [19:31]
................ (idle for 1h19mn)
GuilainCRaulFR, hoping you will see it in logs, I've made some improvement of the FrenchTranslation topic, by integrating as best as i can your remarks. Hoping i'm following the right direction. [20:50]
........................... (idle for 2h14mn)
GithubBot[distro] FoswikiBot pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/h2wM
distro/master 1c9cce0 Martin Dahlem: Item13252: Translations updated using Weblate (Danish)...
[23:04]
***GithubBot has left [23:04]
GithubBot[distro] FoswikiBot pushed 1 new commit to Release01x01: http://git.io/h2wh
distro/Release01x01 ebec8ee Martin Dahlem: Item12813: Translated using Weblate (Danish)...
[23:05]
***GithubBot has left [23:05]

↑back Search ←Prev date Next date→ Show only urls(Click on time to select a line by its url)