#foswiki 2015-08-10,Mon

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gac410Hi all ... Release meeting in #foswiki-release channel begins in 15 minutes. Agenda: Foswiki:Development/ReleaseMeeting02x01_20150810 [12:44]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Development/ReleaseMeeting02x01_20150810 [ ReleaseMeeting02x01_20150810 ] [12:44]
jomohiall [12:58]
gac410Hi jomo ... release meeting starting now in #foswiki-release [12:59]
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jmk0hey folks, I'm trying to continue on the path to getting my plugins publicly release and I'd like to get the packages complete as possible before submitting them for review. Where I left off last week was trying to get a 2.0.1 foswiki up and running - I have a main web page but it looks like no skins. Do I need to get skins (even pattern etc) separately when building out of git?
templates directory appears to be populated in any case
[14:52]
gac410jmk0: If you did "pseudo-install.pl developer" then all that stuff should be there. I'd make sure your pub path is set correctly
Take a look at the Main/WebHome page source in the browser window -- Ctrl-u ? and look at what it used for pub url for css, js, etc.
[14:53]
jmk0$Foswiki::cfg{PubDir} = '/var/www/foswiki/core/pub'; $Foswiki::cfg{PubUrlPath} = '/foswiki/pub'; contents of pub: System and TestCases [14:55]
gac410is there a /foswiki in your url? yoursite.com/foswiki/bin/edit ? [14:55]
jmk0they appear to be /foswiki/pub/System/.... [14:55]
gac410Is that consistent with /foswiki/Main/WebHome /foswiki/bin/configure ... [14:56]
jmk0not in the url i'm accessing, I configured apache for short urls as /
should I change that to /foswiki?
[14:56]
gac410Okay So pub url's should not have the /foswiki.
$Foswiki::cfg{PubUrlPath} = '/pub';
That should fix it.
[14:56]
jmk0bingo! thanks
As there isn't an "EmptyContrib" example to use as a template for creating "new" Contrib modules, is there any one in particular that should be used in its place?
eh, never mind, I'll just copy stuff from TipsContrib and modify as appropriate
[14:58]
LavrWhat is the difference between
use Foswiki::Func ();
and
[15:09]
FoswikiBothttp://trunk.foswiki.org/System/PerlDoc?module=Foswiki::Func [15:10]
Lavruse Foswiki::Func; [15:10]
jmk0has to do with exports iirc [15:10]
LavrIe. What are the () doing? I see both used in plugins [15:10]
jmk0() i believe blocks any implicit imports from that module, making it so you have to fully specify the function or whatever
e.g. with () you need to use Foswiki::Func::someFunc() vs just someExportedFunc()... but I might be wrong about that :D
[15:10]
LavrAh, so the () form is safer? More defensive? [15:12]
gac410Lavr, I've been confused by this as well. Seems to be very mixed use, some authors "use ... ()" every time, others don't. [15:12]
jmk0I'm not sure - it does reduce the possibility of naming conflicts, which perl is pretty quiet about... so you can be reasonably confident you'll be using the right function [15:12]
LavrMy new plugin is progressing OK. I can do the things I want. Now I am sitting trying to find out what the spec should be :-) I am trying to make an intelligent way to search 1000s of topic ONCE and get multiple search results out. E.g. list or count how many bugs are assigned to each engineer
or how many bugs in a period of time split up in 5 day intervals
[15:15]
gac410Lavr, I've not used them but extensions like DBCacheContrib are intended to accelerate search against form data IIRC. [15:16]
jmk0I think it's a matter of taste, tbh. For my own plugin, I use EXPORT_OK and all that, and explicitly use the functions I'm interested in to make the names shorter [15:19]
LavrGeorge. Let me look again to see if they had some smart spec for what I want. [15:19]
jomothe difference - by examples: perl -E 'use Carp; croak("here")' vs perl -E 'use Carp(); croak("here")' [15:22]
LavrGeorge. No. These old plugins do not do more than what our query search can do now. Difference would be performance but that is not my problem.
jomo. Thanks - got it. I will use the () form in my plugin. I always use the full :: paths anyway. Otherwise I get confused myself :-)
[15:23]
jomo:) [15:27]
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jmk0GPL or LGPL? [16:11]
jomoBSD :) [16:12]
jmk0why? [16:13]
jomojust kidding... [16:13]
jmk0ok. thought if you were serious you'd have a reason for suggesting it [16:13]
jomonah
i like it because: The BSD License allows proprietary use and allows the software released under the license to be incorporated into proprietary products. Works based on the material may be released under a proprietary license as closed source software - but ofc not the best for the open-source developers... (usually)
[16:14]
jmk0lesser gpl does that as well
sort of
actually yeah
[16:14]
gac410I think most extensions are just GPL, But I don't know how much consideration went into the choice. For the few extensions I released, it was whatever was in the c/p from where I started :) [16:15]
jmk0yeah, I just checked - tinymce and jscalendar LGPL of all the GPL extensions [16:16]
gac410I'm guessing, inheriting the license from their js components. [16:17]
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LavrMy extensions are all GPL for sure. The one I work on now will also be once done.
I have a few that are not in public because they are useless. I have one that take a specific internal Excel sheet you download from a risktracker and turns it into a nice HTML page I can show in a wiki page. Totally useless for anyone not having the exact Excel format.
[16:38]
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jmk0is PackageForm new as of 2.0?
doesn't seem to be in 1.1.9
[17:17]
gac410Yes, PackageForm is new. You can download / save it to 1.1.9 system web if you want. It doesn't really change anything operationally, it's just a modernization of the Extensions web. [17:19]
jmk0k [17:19]
gac410gac410 is completely baffled by the operation of the configuration "Spec" and javascript detection of changes. There is something wrong in there somewhere, but I don't understand it. [17:22]
jmk0back on the subject of rendering issues, foswiki is still linking everything to host/foswiki/... rather than host/... even after restarting the server and refreshing the page [17:23]
gac410ScriptUrlPath and PubUrlPath are the two config variables effecting that.
With short URLs. ScriptUrlPath = '/' {ScriptUrlPaths}{view} = '' and {PubUrlPath} = '/'
ah... no no... forget I said that
ScriptUrlPath = '/bin' and PubUrlPath = '/pub'
the only part I got right: {ScriptUrlPaths}{view} = ''
[17:23]
jmk0really? the former looks correct for short urls [17:26]
gac410URL for scripts *other than view* will be /bin/edit /bin/configure ... etc. So ScriptUrlPath = /bin [17:26]
jmk0except pub :)
aha
[17:26]
gac410view is an exception, so the specific override
(Note ScripturlPaths (plural) )
[17:27]
jmk0ok, that looks better, thanks again :) [17:28]
gac410yw [17:28]
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GuilainChi all, hi gac410, see your modification of ApacheConfigGenerator, better for sure
Just thinking if it will be better to put all rewrite rules in an if rewrite statement
in order to prevent the "crash" if mod rewrite is not enabled
any point of view ?
[17:48]
jomoGuilainC: will work the foswiki WITHOUT the rewrites? [17:52]
GuilainCahoy jomo [17:54]
gac410hm Well it will work, but will be less friendly. IIRC, rewrite is used for two purposes. 1) Establish a default home. ie mysite.com -> mysite.com/Main/WebHome and 2) Correcting URLs mysite.com/bin/view/Main -> mysite.com/Main [17:54]
jomo:) ahoj :) [17:54]
GuilainCdon't understand jomo you sentence
ah !
GuilainC ask 5 min to read again :)
ok I'm rephrasing my point of view
probably not well expressed
by default, shorter url is enabled, and rewrite rules used for shorter url, attachment, match after condition for caching
but by default (e.g. debian rewrite mod is not enabled) [please don't ask me why ;)]
so my point of view, si to help "beginner"
to have a smoth install
[17:54]
gac410I added a2enmod rewrite to the list of requirements on SystemRequirements page [17:56]
GuilainCwith a default generated apache config, [17:56]
jomoso, when you will use the "IF" (in the apache config) the apache will not crash, but the foswiki will not work. So, IMHO it is GOOD to have a "crash" what indicates to the admin: see, we need the mod_rewrite - so, please enable it... ;) [17:56]
gac410They have to enable cgi anyway. [17:56]
GuilainCah... gac410 :)
true gac410 :)
[17:56]
jmk0oh, you put it on the system requirements page? I thought you were going to put it in the page with the other a2enmod commabnds [17:57]
GuilainCjomo, foswiki should work without rewrite url [17:57]
gac410jomo, foswiki will work just won't be as friendly. [17:57]
GuilainCIf i remember well I've started without
(during 5 years...)
[17:57]
gac410jmko the a2enmod statements for cgi/cgid and access_compat were already there. I added rewrite. [17:58]
jomookay - IF will work ok - then the "ifmodule" is ok :) - (/me don't using apache 5 years, so - only questions - no recommendations) [17:58]
gac410gac410 will have to test ifmod and a2dismod rewrite to know for sure. [18:00]
GuilainChum gac410, your update of SystemRequirement is not "published" on foswiki.org isn't it ? [18:00]
jmk0in SystemRequirements? I just expanded all the sections and found no mention of it [18:00]
gac410trunk.foswiki.org [18:00]
jmk0just cgi and access_compat [18:00]
gac410foswiki.org will get it when 2.0.2 is released. [18:00]
jmk0ah [18:01]
GuilainCthen, [18:01]
gac410I also split the requirements out, so that anyone grabbing the sample apt-get command won't end up installing sqlite, mysql and postgres [18:01]
GuilainCafter foswiki_irc{6,7} interventions these last days, I think it could be great to make "navigation bar" between the different page usefull for installation
for example on ApacheConfigGenerator you don't have link to SystemRequirements, AdminSkillsAssumptions etc
I think something like a wizard, I will try to make an prototype on Sandbox to be more clear
[18:02]
gac410System.InstallationGuide should be the bible. we have too much in too many places already [18:03]
GuilainCyes gac410, you're right [18:04]
jmk0jmk0 nods [18:04]
gac410InstallationGuide %INCLUDEs SystemRequirements, so it's all there in the .html file too. [18:04]
jomogac410: agree... too much different topics for the same thing /like System/Pattern* :(/ [18:05]
GuilainCyes right... but I think that, is too top down, and not enough link to transversal subject or bottom-up... but you're right, everything is in the InstallationGuide
perhpas too many :)
perhaps*
[18:06]
gac410People "simplify" the InstallGuide to the point that it completely omits important stuff. Then we go add it back in because users encounter problems.
Then someone simplifies again. Never ending circle
[18:07]
jmk0:D [18:08]
GuilainCright... is still the same issue :( [18:08]
gac410Part of the problem. Users use many different platforms, and web servers. Adding a2ensite, and a2enmod examples will only confuse people using redhat or windows or ...
At one point there was an effort to build a modular dynamic installation guide. Pieces are abandoned in the Support web. Again way too complicated :(
[18:09]
jmk0typo in Main.AdminUser : UserClientSession should be UseClientSessions, yes? [18:11]
gac410yes [18:12]
jmk0ok so I'm a bit lost. I can get in to the configure page with an admin account but can't log in as AdminUser. My inclination would be to add AdminUser to .htpasswd but the above says to not do that. Holy cow getting the admin account configured from zero is confusing
"use the sudo login link" I assume refers to AdminToggle, though that's not really clear.
ok I was able to use the "internal admin login"... too many options with confusing instructions
[18:16]
GuilainCyou right gac410 plateform X AdminLevels X options => multiply question and confusion... but I don't think is a fatality, we havn't just the way to present information...
I remember when trying to install foswiki in feb 2010, I was very confuse about what to do... and my admin skills are the same than in 2010...
[18:17]
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gac410You would never login with "AdminUser" .... "admin" is the super user account if you want it.
Where does it say to "Use the sudo login link?" I thought I found all them and changed them to the _internal admin user_ or something like that.
sudo is "geek speak" and should not be used. Also 2.0 doesn't really require the "admin" account be active. Configure is available to anyone in the AdminGroup by default, Or an explicit list in Security & Authentication -> Access Control tab
[18:33]
jmk0Main.AdminUser, big red block [18:37]
gac410The only time you actually *require* the internal admin account, is a CLI Shell configuration, where there is no initial admin session when first accessing the web. [18:37]
jmk0right that's where I was at [18:37]
gac410Darn. Okay. I missed one. There are 3 references on that page. Two say to use the _internal admin user_ [18:39]
GithubBot[distro] gac410 pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/v3sho
distro/master 1dbd231 George Clark: Item13504: Separate out optional dependencies...
distro/master 847173a George Clark: Item13504: Clarify AdminUser docs...
[18:50]
***GithubBot has left [18:50]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13504 [ Item13504: Documentation changes Foswiki 2.0.x / 2.1.0 ] [18:50]
gac410jmk0, see if that patch clarifies the Adminuser documentation. And it appears I didn't push my SystemRequirements changes, no wonder you couldn't find them. [18:51]
jmk0looks ok, though I think it should reference the instructions for setting that internal admin password... well it does do that actually, it just seems a bit out of place where it is.
the NOTE thing refers to the instructions
other than that, yeah, looks good
maybe just say "(see NOTE above)"
or "
err, "password is not set by default (see note above for link to instructions for setting password)"
something like that
[18:57]
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re: http://foswiki.org/Development/BuildContribCookbook#Recipe_6:_Testing_your_release_package why are there two identical installer scripts created, one with no extension, one .pl? The instructions are otherwise incorrect. By default (at least as of the head) the installer tries to download. Should probably use the -r option, but even that doesn't work without an extra step of copying the package file somewhere first
since the release target doesn't do that
you could use -x I suppose but that's not really testing the package per se
[19:20]
gac410The .pl extension is generally not used. Probabloy done for windows sites that need the .pl for it to be executable.
yeah... its not even uploaded. so it's just trash.
gac410 reading the instructions now :)
[19:22]
jmk0:) [19:23]
gac410hm I don't think it works that way. ... What I've always done is cd foswiki/distro/core; cp ../SomeExtension/SomeExtension* .; perl ./SomeExtension_installer
I suppose it might work as documented, but I've never tried it. I always copy the extension archives and _installer file into the root of the target system.
that is foswiki root ..
[19:25]
jmk0it definitely doesn't work as documented [19:25]
gac410If you run the _installer from the install root, it should say "do you want to use existing archives" Say yes, and it will use the rest of the files you just copied. [19:26]
jmk0looks like I can change that page.. shall I? [19:26]
gac410Sure
And I've never seen the FOSWIKI_PACKAGES env variable before. No idea if that is active.
Probably not used. grep for FOSWIKI_PACKAGES finds no hits in lib.
I'm guessing that FOSWIKI_PACKAGES was lost a long time ago somewhere along the way.
[19:26]
jmk0check? http://foswiki.org/Development/BuildContribCookbook#Recipe_6:_Testing_your_release_package
oops, i left some of that "2 shell" business in still
yeah the FOSWIKI_PACKAGES seems to be gone. no results whatsoever in matching it anywhere in the foswiki directory tree
find . -type f | xargs grep -l FOSWIKI_PACKAGES
I would have expected it to be in tools if anywhere
ok i think it's reasonable now. I only commented out the old instructions, haven't deleted anything
huh, my extension isn't showing up at all
in configure or InstalledPlugins
files exist in lib/Foswiki/Contrib, though they're actual files instead of the symlinks used for the default Contrib modules
[19:35]
never mind, I was looking under plugins and not contrib modules [19:51]
gac410jmk0: Actually need find -L type f or symlnked extensions won't be found. But I usually use grep -R [19:57]
jmk0ah good point
i hardly ever use symlinks, so I don't think about it
[19:57]
jomoseems i'm the only who uses symlinks "on daily basis" for foswiki... (and Lavr). :) [20:04]

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