#foswiki 2015-08-11,Tue

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HenroRitchieHi All. I have a question regarding the use and implementation of Foswiki. Foswiki at its core is a wiki platform. I have used it for that purpose but I have also used it to write planning/management/erp applications. Now I am considering using it as a CMS platform. First Question; is that a good idea or should I rather look at the more famaliar CMS platforms (Drupal, Joomla, Wordpress). But I am also not convinced a CMS is the right s [06:02]
GuilainChi HenroRitchie, in 5 min, before leave channel for going to work, foswiki is not the best for an CMS application
main problem is the html code could be generated by plugin/core
[06:10]
HenroRitchiethanks GuilainC [06:10]
GuilainCand css is implemented as simple as it
but, it's depends of what "level" of CMS you want to do
if control precisely the html generated, foswiki is probably not the best, but is enough if you don't take care about this
[06:10]
HenroRitchieOk - I will consider you suggestions. Thank you! I am slowly building the parts of IoT implementation. [06:12]
GuilainCand if you don't want a wonderfull design (except if you have a lot of experience in wiki and web design) foswiki will not be the better to do that [06:12]
HenroRitchiewas wondering if Foswiki could be the front end [06:13]
GuilainCHenroRitchie, I don't know where you are, but jomo which is in slovak time zone could you help you on these aspects
I'm using foswiki as a backoffice to publish (with publishPlugin) for the frontend
a lot of people and website used foswiki as frontend
[06:13]
HenroRitchieok - will see when he is online. I am in South Africa [06:13]
GuilainCis possible
ok, so more or less GMT
+-2 ?
[06:13]
HenroRitchie+2 [06:14]
GuilainCso you will see online in some hours
do you want make an pro CMS application ?
[06:14]
HenroRitchieok - I will ask him. Thank you [06:14]
GuilainC(editing workflow, professionnal design, mobile/desktop skin) ?
an other people who can help you in you choice is MichaelDaum
big knowledge on core, lot of public/frontend website
websiteS (!)
be sure about your requirements
need to go
[06:14]
HenroRitchienot really a pro CMS app - but I need to have user control and the ability for users to interact with data gathered by my IOT devices and stored on SQL database
thanks
good bye
[06:16]
Morning Jomo - GuilainC referred met you regarding some questions I have about using Foswiki as a CMS [06:25]
***ChanServ sets mode: +o MichaelDaum [06:38]
jomoHenroRitchie: hi - GuilainC refers me to questions about Foswiki as CMS? I'm just an user - not developer. So, the answer is "depends" on your needs. Many things is possible, but many of them isn't easy and needs a LOT of customisation. MichaelDaum have a lot of experience - and can show more "showcases"... Unfortunately, the Foswiki templating (sknning) isn't easy job... [06:45]
HenroRitchieOk Thank you. Let me repost my original question and then we can discuss form there. I am also just a user, so we are in the same boat
I have a question regarding the use and implementation of Foswiki. Foswiki at its core is a wiki platform. I have used it for that purpose but I have also used it to write planning/management/erp applications. Now I am considering using it as a CMS platform. First Question; is that a good idea or should I rather look at the more famaliar CMS platforms (Drupal, Joomla, Wordpress). But I am also not convinced a CMS is the right solution.
[06:47]
MichaelDaumHi HenroRitchie
Foswiki makes up an excellent CMS
[06:48]
HenroRitchieHi MichaelDaum - I was hoping you would also see the question :) [06:48]
MichaelDaumall three - Drupal, Joomla and Wordpress - are fine as well
however in each case, you have to sit down and invest some time to make them do what you want
Joomla can be particularly confusing at times
Drupal has got loads of extensions, alas with this choice comes a lot of cruft.
Wordpress is ... Wordpress ;)
[06:48]
HenroRitchieLet me ask the question from another angle - I have database with values and I want to plot them on a chart on a page. what would be the best/quickest solution [06:50]
MichaelDaumout of the box, Foswiki looks crappy and generates bad html [06:50]
HenroRitchie:) foswiki does look a bit less refined, but my wife actually preferred it to the standard drupal look [06:51]
MichaelDaumyea the standard drupal look is awful as well [06:52]
HenroRitchiethe other option is django cms [06:52]
MichaelDaumI'd use SqlPlugin and http://www.highcharts.com/
choice of charting extension depends on the type of chart you want to create
[06:52]
HenroRitchieAt the end I need to build someting like this https://freeboard.io/board/538e1374f1776c1c2e000713
though I don't expect it to look as refined as this
[06:54]
MichaelDaumumpf [06:55]
HenroRitchieor similar site - https://thingspeak.com/channels/25024
as I said - first I just want to display the values as the are retrieved from the database
[06:55]
MichaelDaumhow about using a specific dashboard framework
such as http://dashing.io/
never used ... but this one came up first via google ;)
seen their demo?
[06:56]
FoswikiBotSorry, I haven't seen their demo. [06:56]
MichaelDaumFoswikiBot, shut up [06:57]
HenroRitchie>:oI have clearly searched the wrong google terms
I will have a look.
[06:57]
Ok, thank you. Irespective of the dashboard what would be the best/quickest platform to show the results of a sql query. I have used foswiki for this before, but I don't know if this is good or not [07:08]
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MichaelDaumhttp://foswiki.org/Extensions/SqlPlugin [07:47]
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do we actually have a TableContrib for plugins in need of a table parser?
for 1.1.x
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LavrHi. In my quest to test 2.0 I have now come to JHotDrawPlugin. I cannot make it work. The changes made to rest are not compatible with that plugin
Either I get an error that GET is not allowed. And if I enable the rest legacy option then it fails with bad validation key (strike one)
[10:18]
Where is the title field in Tasks web? I am trying to file a bug. The title field is gone.
And at the top of the Text tab there is a field called Summar. Yes misspelled Summar
It seems to be different when you use the normal Create a new task. But not when you create from viewng a plugin page in tasks web
Ah. So the Summar is the Summary field misspelled and you do not see that on the form any longer???
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foswiki_irc3need some help! i want to usw a javascript attribute in a foswiki command ( %REVINFO{web="testweb" topic="'+name+'"}% ) is it possible? [11:16]
***ChanServ sets mode: +o gac410 [11:30]
LavrHey punks. ;-) Is the new enhanced way of defining rest handlers in plugins backwards compatible with 1.1?
I would think 1.1. would just ignore the extra members of the hash
And what is the recommended way to handle revision of a plugin which is currently using a date as revision? Keep or change to #.#?
[11:31]
gac410lavr, 1.1 will just ignore the extra stuff in the hash.
VERSION should be a decimal, RELEASE can be a date.
VERSION can be tricky. Simple decimal is best and most compatible with older perl. If you want a "triple" VERSION = 'v1.2.3'; then it needs to be a version object to avoid perl isues.
[11:39]
LavrThanks George. I will post an updated JHotDrawPlugin then.
I will call it 2.0
I can only fix the perl related. There is still a nasty bug where the java applet cannot be stopped if it fails in any way. You have to control-alt-del on windows to kill it. But I know NADA about Java
[11:41]
jastthe rest parameters were supported in 1.1, too, I think, we just changed the defaults [11:51]
MichaelDaumMichaelDaum added a feature to the new GraphvizPlugin to read nodes and edges from WorkflowPlugin tables
... or any other foswiki table with | source | label | target | columns
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GithubBot[GraphvizPlugin] MichaelDaum pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/v3WKT
GraphvizPlugin/master 5cd0ece MichaelDaum: Item13612: added graphviz-from-table feature
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13612 [ Item13612: rewrite of DirectedGraphPlugin as GraphvizPlugin ] [13:19]
GithubBot[GraphvizPlugin] MichaelDaum pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/v3W64
GraphvizPlugin/master 04dad77 MichaelDaum: Item13612: preparing first beta release
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GithubBot[GraphvizPlugin] MichaelDaum pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/v3Wiq
GraphvizPlugin/master a877f32 MichaelDaum: Item13612: ignoring build files
[13:24]
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LavrI cannot commit the changes I have done to JHotDraw because of missing perltidy. And I cannot find the place in the plugin developer doc or the BuildContrib doc how to run the exact perltidy that satisfied the darn checker [13:27]
gac410export PERL5LIB = /path/to/BuildContrib/lib will get you the perltiyd lib bundled in BuildContrib [13:28]
LavrAnd then? [13:29]
gac410perltidy -b /file/to/tidy
You still need perltidy installed, but the libpath override will cause it to use the rules enforced by the checker.
[13:29]
MichaelDaumor perltidy -npro when there is no TIDY file for the extension [13:30]
LavrI have the tool installed
If it is my own plugins then I do not run perltidy. I hate what it does to my code
[13:30]
gac410If it's your own code you can opt out. [13:31]
LavrIt is mainly the 80 char limit I hate. It takes code I have formatted to be readable and molest it. [13:32]
gac410You can "protect" blocks you don't want it to touch [13:33]
MichaelDaumLavr, 80 chars per line ... this is to please all future collaborators working on a vt220 terminal [13:34]
gac410nay... It's to fit on the 80 column hollerith
punched cards
[13:35]
GithubBot[GraphvizPlugin] MichaelDaum pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/v3WDi
GraphvizPlugin/master 6a88768 MichaelDaum: Item13612: docu fixes
[13:35]
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gac410Reminder to everyone. Please include DEPENDENCIES file in MANIFEST, so that the PerlDependenciesReport can report on extension dependencies.
Lavr, You can protect blocks of specially formatted code. The beginning marker is #<<< and the ending marker is #>>>
And hints on how to use the TIDY file are at: http://foswiki.org/Development/CodingStandards#Formatting_Code
[13:35]
LavrYes. I did that in one of my plugins. From file top to file bottom. [13:40]
gac410If it's YOUR plugin, no need. If there is no TIDY file in the root of the extension, nothing should be checked. [13:41]
LavrI did it because it had been molested by someone that ran tidy on everything.
I assume that will not happen again based on how Michael reacted on that :-)
[13:42]
gac410If the plugin is set to "Feel free to modify" then it's fair game. If it's check with author, then it should not get touched.
You can also establish your own TIDY rules and put them in the TIDY file, ... ie override the line width.
[13:43]
MichaelDaumperltidy is important to keep further diffs clean [13:43]
LavrI would not mind tidy if I can set the width a little wider. NOthing dramatic. Just so that lines do not break insanely [13:44]
MichaelDaumthere have been too many different coding styles on the old project's core files. have a look at its source code now.
I tend to have my own ~/.perltidyrc that I use for all non-core plugins that I maintain
[13:44]
LavrOn the core files I have no worries. Same with default plugs.
But with my own I have two concerns.
[13:45]
gac410Tidy is very configurable. and TIDY file is intended so that dev can set their desired tidy rules for their extension. See Foswiki:Development.CodingStandards#Formatting_rules [13:45]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Development.CodingStandards#Formatting_rules [ CodingStandards ] [13:45]
LavrReadability of my own code. [13:45]
gac410If you use your own private .perltidyrc, and extension is feel Free to modify, expect the code to be mashed. Put the rules in the TIDY file, and everyone will run with your rules.
TBH I don't eve look. If I modify someting I tidy it. I expect that the TIDY file is properly configured so I don't have to worry.
[13:46]
LavrAnd the second reason is the most important. When I publish a plugin (even with Feel free) and I do some enhancements it may be 2-3 months before I have finished the work and then it is a pain to merge back the changes if someone meanwhile has tidied the code. [13:47]
MichaelDaumin general perltidy increases readability. there are exceptions. you can customize it to match your personal coding style. big gain: anybody contributing to your plugins will have to adhere to these rules. no more back and forth formatting creating large diffs for nothing. [13:48]
gac410The TIDY rules are there. If you don't use them ... [13:48]
MichaelDaumwe actually should establish tidy rules for css, js ... and tml. [13:48]
LavrIf you have an example of a TIDY where only the line width is changed I may consider adding that to my plugins. [13:48]
MichaelDaum-l=120
remember to separate perltidy-only checkins from real ones.
good practice
[13:50]
LavrMichael. Yes. I have seen a couple of fixes that were checked in with the bulk tidy.
And these should have been done in a separate checkin and and a release done. It is easy to forget that you hacked something when you later do a bulk tidy on all plugins. But again. I think that was the one and only time anyone did that.
[13:53]
gac410sometimes it's hard ... assuming that everything is tidy, you have to remember to tidy first, commit, then patch, and tidy again. In *theory* everything is either tidy, or opted out.
I occasionally find code that gets tidied after a patch and changes in other areas. which either means someone didn't tidy and bypassed the enforcement, or could be a perltidy bug too.
[13:54]
GithubBot[JHotDrawPlugin] KennethLavrsen pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/v3Wb1
JHotDrawPlugin/master 4bdfd3e KennethLavrsen: Item13614: JHotDrawPlugin should hide the created attachments...
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13614 [ Item13614: JHotDrawPlugin should hide the created attachments ] [13:56]
gac410easy enough to bypass. ... unfortunately git commit -a --no-verify ... shouldn't be doing that, but sometimes have to. Esp. if f.o is not responding and the task validation can't pass.
Anyway, I wouldn't object to the linelength override. But I watched another project spend months voting and arguing what should be the tidy defaults. We bypassed a lot of angst by just using the defaults. :)
[13:57]
MichaelDaumtoo bad that different perltidy versions have different defaults [14:01]
LavrIt is only the line breaks that molest the code so it becomes difficult to merge in changes. The extra spaces added here and there are easy to see. And my normal coding style of { } already matches the normal tidy rules [14:01]
gac410yeah that was a really annoying change. why any project would change defaults for everyone mid-stream ... [14:01]
LavrSo I just add a file TIDY in the plugin root with one line "-l=120" to change line width to 120? [14:02]
MichaelDaumLavr, add to your TIDY -l=99999999999999999 [14:02]
LavrI rarely go beyond 100. But I often go beyond 80.
The tidy I just did on JHotDraw was 1 line changed. From 81 chars to two lines.
[14:03]
MichaelDaumI wished we had a tmltidy ... a lot more annoyance comes from badly formatted wiki apps. [14:04]
gac410MichaelDaum: +1 +1 [14:04]
LavrTMLtidy? You have 6000 hours to spare ? :-)) [14:05]
jastand that's not counting actual development time ;) [14:05]
gac410Trying to follow the escaped single & double quotes, and nested {} in one long single line, not to mention $dollardollarpercnt and other madness. [14:06]
FlashDelhi folks, i got a question: I am using ldapcontrib plugin with the current foswiki 2.0 and the authentication works fine so far, BUT i got a problem with the group mapping. The groups are not shown under Groups in the frontend and i am not sure how to debug this (LDAP debug is on). Can somebody give me a hint? [14:06]
gac410Hi FlashDel unfortunately I don't use ldap. Jast, MichaelDaum ... any words of wisdom? [14:07]
LavrI am still trying to come up with a good spec for the search plugin I am working on.
I have not found anything that does anything like what I try to do.
I need to produce a table where each row has a search criteria in common.
That is simple
and each column has another criteria in common.
Today I do that by making a SEARCH per cell. YUK!
I am working on a plugin that can do it all in ONE search. I can do one column now. It is fast.
But I am trying to find a syntax spec for how to add additional columns with a different criteria.
Putting two Macros side by side will not make it the way that macros are evaluated
Unless I make the silly macros pop back up recursively. YUK!!!!!
%INFINITELOOP%
%DENIALOFSERVICE%
[14:14]
jomothe %DENIALOFSERVICE% is too long. consider the %CRASHME% or just the %CRASH% :) [14:21]
MichaelDaum%DoS% [14:22]
jomoYES! [14:22]
gac410configure really needs some what to anchor a wizard button to something that isn't a setting. :(
er way, not what
[14:25]
jastFlashDel: {Ldap}{MapGroups} is enabled? ... Have you used the cache refresh button on System.LdapContrib? if so, do you see any error messages related to LDAP in your web server's error logfile? [14:37]
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FlashDeljast: ,yes it is enabled, but i dont find the refresh button?! In the logs there are ldap entries, but no errors and nothing group-related [14:56]
gac410This configure spec merge is challenging. The Spec files are actually merged only during save. If you save the config you'll always get the fully merged specs, regardless of why you saved or how many settings you think were modified.
I can't think of any easy way during configure initialization to determine if a Spec has been changed and a save should be recommended.
About all I'm coming up with is to compare the timestamps on all Config.spec and Foswiki.spec files, to the timestamp on LocalSite.cfg, and if any spec file is newer, flag that save should be dones.
cli is easy. tools/configure -save just does it, and all is fixed. But javascript disables save from web unless it detects a change... that can't be detected until the spec is merged during save.
[15:03]
GithubBot[JHotDrawPlugin] KennethLavrsen pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/v3l2X
JHotDrawPlugin/master a153e11 KennethLavrsen: Item13613: Missed one line when adding the rest def
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13613 [ Item13613: JHotDrawPlugin no longer works in Foswiki 2.0 because of the changed rest ] [15:11]
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jmk0two questions for plugin public release: 1) should I be listing dependencies in the System plugin topic page? if so, then 2) where should I be linking dependencies to other extensions?
i.e. what url should I be using to point to another extension upon which this is dependent?
[15:16]
gac410hm Some of that is supposed to be automatic. create a DEPENDENCIES file and I think there is a %$DEPENDENCIES% token that buildcontrib will substitute. [15:17]
jmk0ah ok [15:17]
gac410Only list deps that someone would have to install. Ie don't bother with deps on default extensinos or core perl modules, unless you need a specific version [15:18]
jmk0build.pl dependencies has missed some stuff. this particular dependency in question, actually [15:18]
gac410Deps are type "perl" or "cpan" "perl" is foswiki extensions, etc. "cpan" is cpan. [15:19]
jmk0I'm not sure what modules are core. I would think that most of the ones listed by build.pl were in fact core.. and it only missed the one that wasn't a core module. :-/ [15:19]
gac410What is the dependency? build.pl dependencies tries but, some stuff is too complex [15:19]
jmk0my contrib module that hasn't yet been publicly released [15:19]
gac410corelist will tell you if a module is shipped by a default perl
hm Foswikibot: corelist: File::Copy
corelist:File::Copy
[15:20]
jmk0didn't even know that existed, interesting. [15:20]
gac410well there is also some way to get foswikibot to tell you... but I don't recall the secret incantation. [15:20]
jmk0:)
so DEPENDENCIES shouldn't contain any core modules?
[15:21]
gac410It doesn't hurt, but just adds noise. [15:22]
jmk0k [15:22]
gac410Do you have a Foswiki 2.0 system? [15:22]
jmk0yes [15:23]
gac410Navigate to System/PerlDependencyReport?include=all As long as your DEPENDENCY file is included in your MANIFEST, you'll get a crossref of what your extension needed [15:24]
jmk0neat [15:25]
gac4102.0 has two very handy reports. The Dep report, and also System.FoswikiServerInformation That shows the version of every module loaded
And where it came from. If you have multiple libpaths and change them around, it can be very handy.
[15:26]
jastFlashDel: go to yourwiki/System/LdapContrib, there should be a button below the table of contents [15:33]
GithubBot[JHotDrawPlugin] KennethLavrsen pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/v3lQI
JHotDrawPlugin/master 0f29843 KennethLavrsen: Item13613: The enabling of validate for rest does not work in Foswiki 1.1.9. I have to disable it to maintain compatibility
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13613 [ Item13613: JHotDrawPlugin no longer works in Foswiki 2.0 because of the changed rest ] [15:46]
LavrThat validate => 1 in rest turned out to not work in 1.1.9 so for compatibility I have to turn it off for the rest script in that plugin. [15:47]
jmk0my extensions depend on XML::LibXML which is a non-core module that in turn requires libxml2... should I mark it as an "external" dependency, or as cpan? If the install process tries to do cpan and libxml2 isn't installed, it will fail [16:00]
gac410the install process no longer attempts to install CPAN. Best to list it. It will just show up as a missing dep in the report
Probably don't list libxml2. Won't that vary based upon distribution?
[16:02]
jmk0what do you mean "list it"?
XML::LibXML is a perl wrapper for libxml2 so it will always depend on that. Hadn't intended to list it as a direct dependency, however.
[16:03]
gac410include XML::LibXML in the dependencies. Don't include libxml2 which is a dep of XML::LibXML [16:03]
jmk0right
but what type of dependency, "cpan" or "external"?
or does it even matter any more?
[16:04]
gac410cpan [16:04]
jmk0k [16:04]
gac410It can test for CPAN, it doesn't really do anything for externals other than list them iirc [16:05]
jmk0IMO it'd be a good idea to link that perl dependency report from the installed plugins topic. Maybe the server info as well... somehow group all the "how have I failed?" topics together. The troubleshooting section of InstallationGuide could stand to be separated and stuck in the nav bar and contain links to all that useful stuff [16:12]
LavrHmm. I updated some plugins in 1.1.9 (test installation) and now the help section twisty is gone and I cannot collapse the help section in edit mode.
WTF?
Most likely JQueryPlugin that is not compatible with 1.1.9. It is a pain to downgrade such a plugin.
[16:17]
gac410If you upgraded JQueryPlugin, then you should probably also upgrade TwistyPlugin, TinyMCEPlugin ... maybe others too. [16:23]
LavrI updated Twisty and the problem is in Edit Wikitext so Tiny is not relevant. PatternSkin could be. [16:24]
gac410The "default" plugins / contribs with 2.0 have been tested on 1.1.9. The ones that you must NOT back-port are PatternSkin and TopicUserMappingContrib [16:24]
LavrI am not going to fight with that but we surely have a bit of a trap here. None compatible extensions should not be possible to install.
I found the zip of JQueryPlugin that matches 1.1.9 and through it on top of my test 1.1.9 and now the twisty works again
[16:25]
gac410We ran 1.1.9 on f.o for a week or two using the 2.0 extensions. I thought I added a PREINSTALL exit to die if you try to to install them on 1.1.9, but if you use unzip, all bets are off.
If you upgraded JQueryPlugin, you also need to set the JQuery version in bin/configure
[16:25]
LavrThat I tried. No difference [16:27]
gac410not sure what went wrong for you, but again we DID test (and run live) a 1.1.9 system, with all 2.0 extensions installed except for PatternSkin and ToipicUserMapping [16:28]
Lavrproblem may be that your 1.1.9 on f.o was never a real PatternSkin. It was the modded f.o version [16:30]
gac410I doubt it. Before I installed on f.o I updated a 1.1.9 system here locally
The PREINSTALL exit on TopicUserMapping and PatternSkin both contain: die "Not compatible with Foswiki 1.1.x" if ($Foswiki::VERSION < 1.999);
[16:30]
FoswikiBothttp://trunk.foswiki.org/System/PerlDoc?module=Foswiki::VERSION [16:32]
LavrMaybe noone noticed that the help text could not fold back? it did not work here! And when I reapply the old version of JQueryPlug the twisties came back
The 4.91 is the one that works
And I actually used configure in 1.1.9 for the upgrade and not my usual zip way
It seems Twisty is not updated in 1.1.9. I will try again ugrading both twisty and jquery
[16:34]
yes. You have to update also TwistyPlugin. I was so sure I had done that but it was missing in the updates. [16:43]
gac410okay good. Thanks for checking. [16:44]
Lavrmeanwhile my spec here for my plugin will be something with ...
%MULTISEARCH{search1="State='Assessed'" search2="State='Closed'" web="Station/MOL" indexfield="Business" indextype="text" listseparator=", " format1="| $indexfield | $nhits | $topiclist |$n" format2="| $nhits | $topiclist |$n" header="| *Assignee* | *Count* | *Topics* |$n" footer="| | $ntopics | |$n" }%
Which makes no sense. But the point is I am having search# and format#. A flexible number of searches and formats
[16:47]
gac410cool [16:47]
Lavrindexfield is the field that is common per row.
Still need to figure out more about what I need to have multiple of.
And then I need a version where the indexfield is a Date field and you can specify a start date and an interval.
Goal is to create tables of number of bugs raised and closed per interval for a bug metric
The one where I do 84 searches today
[16:48]
jmk0part of me wants to adapt my XML store to doing topic metadata searches, but the rest of me realizes I already have too much to do :)
has SitePreferences been deprecated?
[17:00]
gac410no
That's actually a very important toic.
toipc
[17:04]
jmk0I was just looking at my plugin topic and it's a dead link [17:05]
gac410It's Main.SitePreferences. never in System. [17:05]
jmk0aha i thought that might be the case [17:05]
gac410Or to be more accurate %USERSWEB%.SitePreferences [17:05]
jmk0looks like I had it right in most of my plugins' docs :) [17:08]
jesuisseHi, anyone here? I'm trying to bulk_copy a store to Foswiki 2.0.1 and it still doesn't work right (see Task Item13100 for problem description)... [17:21]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13100 [ Item13100: bulk_copy.pl needs thorough review & testing for 1.2 ] [17:21]
GuilainCLavr, in what your new macro %MULTISEARCH is different of a %SEARCH{"..." type="query"}% with two conditions %SEARCH{"Cond1='Assessed' AND Cond2='close' "}% ?
GuilainC do a lot of search with several, several conditionS
[17:34]
LavrThe difference is that each search condition produces its own search result
And each search is done ONCE per condition.
So if you search 1000 topics for two conditions the plugin may return 40 lines of results of the two conditions.
Hard to show without an example
Today I have to do something like
FORMAT { a lot of values
| SEARCH | SEARCH | SEARCH |
}
That becomes FORMAT value x number of SEARCH
[17:35]
GuilainCGuilainC is reading
I try to reformulate
[17:41]
jomojmk0: XML Store? Published or private? More info? Interesting... [17:42]
GuilainCcould we say is a independent search in each column ? or in a other way is there a link between search in each column ? [17:43]
LavrThe link between each column is a common value of a declared Index field. [17:47]
GuilainCok, like an uid ? [17:47]
LavrYes. It can be a user ID. Or a business section of a company in one of my examples.
Or what I really need, a date interval. That I have not started coding yet. I take the easy case first
[17:47]
GuilainCuid= unique identifier
ok, Lavr is seems to be very closed to Database mechanism as SQL
is there a special word for this kind of operation
but today, i do this kind of think with search inside other search
so is for avoiding this painful syntaxe (macro inside other) you're looking for a new syntaxe ?
[17:48]
LavrActually - what I need you cannot even do with a nested search in many cases.
And if you can - nesting searches inside searches takes time.
I have 1300 bugs in a web similar to our task webs on f.o.
I need to walk through 40 weeks - in 1 week steps - and count how many topics that have a date field in a given interval in two conditions.
DateOriginated in the interval
DatePerformed in the same interval
[17:52]
jomoLavr: just a question - will be possible use in ONE format= tokens from both searches? e.g. %MULTISEARCH{search1=... search2... etc... format="| $nhits1 | $nhtis2 | $topiclist1 | $topiclist2"}% ? [17:54]
LavrThat could have been another way than having to merge to formats.
I need to consider that one as well.
Then I also need $nhits1, $nhits2 etc
[17:55]
jomo:) - don't take me too seriously - just asking/brainstorming... :) [17:57]
LavrNo. I needed that kind of input. I have been in a struggle making a sensible spec
yeah I like that. I will change that right away
[17:57]
GuilainCok Lavr, is not an kind of "search on last revision" but clearly more an timestamp search
I've an brainstorm about a plugin somewhere about a kind of things
[17:59]
LavrNo. It is a search for date values in dedicated date fields [17:59]
GuilainCthen, for brainstorming purposed
ah Lavr
but what the output expected
last version ?
for example task two weeks ago, modified last week
search between two week and today
what is the hit
revision like it was there is two weeks
or topic as it is ?
[17:59]
LavrI have released a plugin called SetFormValuesPlugin that I use to automatically set date values when a field called State changes. [18:01]
GuilainCgood to know :) could be useful [18:01]
LavrThis way each bug item has recorded in a field when it was created, when it was assigned, when it was performed and when it was closed.
You setup a rules topic that defines what condition needs to be set.
So you can say - when State changes to Closed - set the DatePerformed and DateClosed dates to NOW
And for DateAssigned - it gets set when you assign someone first time.
And you can even set the rules so it only applies when the field is empty.
That is good for the originated and assigned dates. So even when people flip status back it does not reset the already set date
[18:01]
GuilainCGuilainC will be back, swimming pool time [off]
ah and for brainstorming, I was searching before to have a concatenate option between two formatted search
for example %SEARCH{"1" format="| $nhits |"}% %SEARCH{"2" format="|$nhits |"} produce
| $nhits (from search 1) | $nhits (from search 2) |
don't know if it could be part of what you thinking (link here is =="1"
my aim is to do with tml formatted output as well html tag like <div> or other <table><tr><td> simple list & so on
[18:14]
LavrGuilainC. The concat of two searches is what I do in my metrics graph page now.
problem is that is will do TWO searches for 1 date interval.
I need 40 and maybe 70 intervals. That 70 x 2 = 140 searches
Today my 82 searches takes half a minute. With my new plugin it takes 2-3 seconds because the search only happens twice putting all the values in a cache and then the plugin devides it in indexvalues or date intervals.
I have completed the index value case now. So next is to do the date interval part :-)
Time to quit for today. I am hungry. CU
[18:21]
jmk0byebye :) [18:26]
jomojmk0: where is possible to get more info about the XML-Store? [18:29]
...... (idle for 27mn)
foswiki_irc8I am trying to install the FullCalendarPlugin on foswiki 2.0.1 but get the following: Failed to unpack archive /tmp/n0r9koBWMa.tgz: 512 - The Extension may not be usable due to errors. Installation terminated.
i have sucessfully installed other plugins.
[18:56]
gac410okay I recreated it here. Let me dig a bit into it.
It also failed ot unpack the HijackPlugin
Strange. The tgz file is not actually gzipped. Readable with Tar, but not as a .tgz
[18:58]
foswiki_irc8: Give me a couple of minutes. I'll download the zipfile and re upload it as a valid tgz. Not sure what happened there. [19:08]
jmk0jomo: no information available about the XML store yet, I'm still going through the process of getting approval for public release [19:13]
gac410foswiki_irc8: I removed the tgz file from the Extensions web. I tested the ExtensionsInstaller, and it installed okay using the zipfile there. [19:14]
HijaxPlugin has the same issue. Someone uploaded a tarfile and named it tgz. I deleted that one as well, so the zipfile should work. [19:20]
foswiki_irc8awesome, thank you for your quick responses [19:22]
gac410yw. I don't know how these are going to work for you There is already a comment that FullCalendarPlugin is not compatible with Foswiki 1.1.9, and 2.0 has a lot of changes.
pattid is not around very often, so I don't know if he'll be refreshing them.
WikiRingBot seen pattid
FoswikiBot: seen pattid
[19:23]
FoswikiBotgac410: Sorry, I haven't seen pattid. [19:24]
jmk0should I fill out the topic form for the git access request, or is that something for the "mods"? (topic summary; interested parties) [19:33]
gac410Not sure that's even used ;) [19:33]
jmk0k
done :)
no idea how long the actual approval process will take, but I think everything is otherwise ready
except for that plug-in that I'm still working on, mind you.
[19:33]
gac410Sent you an invite.
What we'll have to do is create the Extension repository for you, and then give you access. Only owners can create new repositories.
[19:37]
jmk0one for each extension? [19:38]
gac410Yes, each extension gets its own repository. The only ones that are lumped together are the default extensions in distro.
When anyone pseudo-installs an extension, it looks for a repo with the same name, clones it, and you are set to go.
[19:38]
jmk0k
what's the invite? i've seen nothing on the wiki, github web or in email... or does it take a while?
[19:39]
gac410Not sure. I entered jmk0 in the github "invite a member" and submitted it.
It did show the correct name,
If you browse to https://github.com/foswiki you might have an accept link there if you don't get an email.
[19:40]
jmk0got it... weird that you have to go looking for it and get no notification. [19:43]
jomocrossing finger to get the approval = xml store sounds REALLY good :D [19:47]
jmk0:) [19:47]
gac410jmk0: Maybe delays in email. It should have sent something. Might want to check your address too. [19:47]
jmk0keep in mind it's not really related to the PlainFileStore or RCSStore
oh yeah it probably got filtered because I have a white list. oops.
[19:47]
gac410Is it a pluggable store, or something that sits along side.
You probably want to make sure github is not filtered. You'll get notifications.
[19:48]
jmk0yeah, I just fixed it :) [19:49]
gac410So what you should do along the way. Create a task to add your XMLStorePlugin or Contrib or whatever you've called it. And then ask us to create a repository.
a bot on foswiki.org will automatically populate the links to the task web, email notifications, etc.
[19:49]
jmk0it's module for providing a way to store per-topic metadata in XML, intended for use by plugins [19:50]
gac410So just in case someone wants a pluggable store, might want to make it something like XMLMetaStorePlugin ... nothing official though. Extension are first come first serve. [19:52]
jomothis is the 4th line on my wishlist http://foswiki.org/Main/JozefMojzis ;) :) [19:52]
jmk0yeah that would take a bit more work than what I've done, but it'd be similar [19:53]
jomosimply GREAT! crossing-crossing fingers... ;) [19:54]
jmk0Tasks.Item13615 I probably did it wrong, but there it is [19:56]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13615 [ Item13615: Create repositories for extensions ] [19:56]
jmk0I should have searched for similar tasks that already existed *doh* [19:56]
gac410Looks like DoxygenPlugin already exists? [19:57]
jmk0jomo, I don't think a complete replacement for %META will be possible given the way all the existing search engines work
it does? lemme look
eww twiki :D
[19:57]
gac410yeah appears that way [19:58]
jmk0you want me to rename it then? [19:58]
jomojmk0: ofc, not with the "current" FW - but anything well structured (XML/JSON/YAML) means a big step forward... [19:59]
gac410Doesn't look like it was released, lemme look at the status. [19:59]
jmk0it looks like the function is similar [20:00]
gac410The status of the twiki port is http://foswiki.org/Development/StatusOfPortingExtensionsToFoswiki [20:00]
jmk0"unknown" [20:01]
gac410It's listed as unknown for porting status. So you could either modernize it and port it, or move it out of the way. If your's was compatible in some way, that would help others migrating from twiki [20:02]
Lavrgac410 [20:03]
gac410yes?
that's me
[20:03]
LavrCan you help me creating MultiSearchPlugin dir on Github? [20:03]
jmk0well, what I've done is slightly different in that mine currently only links to doxygen generated graphs, no current support for links to html. Theirs won't work at all unless your doxygen configuration exactly matches what it was implemented for [20:04]
gac410Lavr, sure. [20:04]
jmk0so in short, what I have could be probably be updated to support what that crufty old thing does
but it presently does not do precisely the same thing
[20:04]
gac410Lavr: https://github.com/foswiki/MultiSearchPlugin has been created Ready for you to push to it. [20:06]
LavrCool. Thanks. I am creating the misc topics on f.o now [20:06]
jmk0... actually I really should support those capabilities, it's not like I wouldn't be able to use them immediately [20:07]
gac410jmk0: I'd we should move the twiki repo out of your way, and let you start fresh. But just keep in mind what they do, anything that "eases" migrations to foswiki is a good thing :) [20:08]
jmk0yep [20:08]
gac410hm I wonder. Maybe the idea would be to rename "master" to twiki, and then create a new master branch. That way it would be easier to cherry-pick code if there is anything at all useful. [20:09]
jmk0that code looks ancient even by twiki standards. [20:11]
gac410Any opinions? create a new repo, or move the old cruft into a different branch?
You could then even drop the branch, but the history would still be there.
[20:11]
jmk0i'm assuming you're asking the core devs - I don't have enough background knowledge of function or policy to have a useful opinion [20:13]
gac410I listen to opinions from anyone :D
Not a lot of policy / procedure here to follow... we are inventing as we go along.
[20:13]
jmk0my guess is that it doesn't matter - if someone really wanted it, something would have been done by now [20:14]
gac410y Rather than cluttering another repo name that we then have to someday delete, I think a branch moves it out of the way, but is less "noisy"
I'll get it cleaned up.
[20:14]
foswiki_irc8has anyone used the full calendar plugin? i believe i have it installed, but it doesnt show up in System/InstalledPlugins but i do see it bin/configure [20:15]
gac410Do you see any errors in InstalledPlugins, and did it get Enabled in bin/configure?
grep your lib/LocalSite.cfg for FullCalendarPlugin There needs to be two entries {Plugins}{FullCalendarPlugin}{Enabled} and same thing but ending in {Module}
(This is an area that we are currently doing some debugging on )
[20:16]
LavrI am a bit puzzled about the default plugin topic that gets created. It has no table at the bottom but now has a form [20:19]
foswiki_irc8$Foswiki::cfg{Plugins}{FullCalendarPlugin}{Enabled} = 1; $Foswiki::cfg{Plugins}{FullCalendarPlugin}{Module} = 'Foswiki::Plugins::FullCalendarPlugin'; [20:19]
FoswikiBothttp://trunk.foswiki.org/System/PerlDoc?module=Foswiki::Plugins::FullCalendarPlugin [20:19]
foswiki_irc8what is strange is it is showing version 1.0 and says there is a newer version 1.1 [20:19]
gac410foswiki_irc8: And you don't see it in System/InstalledPlugins? [20:20]
foswiki_irc8nope [20:20]
gac410foswiki_irc8: yeah, the author did some quick&dirty patches a while ago and didn't follow the rules :(
foswiki_irc8: are you running mod_perl or fastcgi? If so, apache needs a restart
[20:20]
foswiki_irc8caching... sorry
it is there
[20:20]
gac410Ah... okay :) [20:20]
GithubBot[DoxygenPlugin] gac410 pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/v34Ao
DoxygenPlugin/master e1a3a54 George Clark: Item13615: Move the old TWiki code out of the way...
[20:24]
***GithubBot has left [20:24]
gac410jmk0: DoxygenPlugin master branch now just has two empty directories - data & lib. "twiki" branch has the old code. [20:25]
jmk0k
thanks
[20:26]
gac410yw [20:26]
jmk0: Updated Foswiki:Development/StatusOfPortingExtensionsToFoswiki and moved DoxygenPlugin to "In foswiki space" and under development. [20:31]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Development/StatusOfPortingExtensionsToFoswiki [ StatusOfPortingExtensionsToFoswiki ] [20:31]
GuilainCLavr, for log, two things I think you may think about
first is : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relational_database and "relation" concept (see illustration)
In think you make more an relation Search with timediff option
and
[20:32]
gac410"In Codd we trust" ... And everything shall be dependent upon "The key, The whole Key, and Nothing but the Key, so help me Codd" [20:33]
GuilainCfor you the share field is you primary key [20:33]
jmk0jmk0 blinks [20:33]
GuilainCand then think about Olap
OlapPlugin will be cool for foswiki
[20:34]
jmk0go for it, let us know when you're done ;-) [20:34]
GuilainCgac410... not sure to have understand, except the main point, in summary, "just code it ?" [20:34]
gac410"Dr. Codd at IBM was the inventor of relational databases. Your point to wiki reminded me of old sayings from the early System R / DB2 days.
the key, whole key, ... is a play on the court-room swear to tell the truth, the whole truth ... and describes the first 3 normal forms of data.
Sorry ... aging database geek here.
[20:35]
GuilainCah don't worry
I'm in a new company with an wonderfull AS400 (DB2 i think) server
and I will have to make some "buisness intelligence"
just don't know neither this ref (with codd) than original sentence
GuilainC has learn something
thanks gac410
GuilainC is reading his brainstorming about foswiki plugin
TimeBackPlugin is really cool
[20:37]
gac410and "In Codd we trust" is a play on the motto US Motto "In God we trust" [20:39]
GuilainCI've got this point :)
GuilainC really need to start coding extension...
[20:42]
foswiki_irc8so on the full calendar plugin, i have the full calendar macro in my sandbox area, it displays a calendar for this month, but according to the plugi documentation you should be able to click on a day and a dialog opens for added an entry [20:42]
gac410foswiki_irc8: Unfortunately I've never used that extension. [20:43]
GuilainCfoswiki_irc8, I've used it
If I remember well you need some tweak
could we share an example topic on foswiki.org/Sandbox ?
if yes, please copy/paste your basic code
by tweak I mean configuration
in topic or Web
[20:44]
foswiki_irc8i just tried the following: %FULLCALENDAR{} [20:46]
GuilainCAnd there is some limitation (if I remember well) on non-english date format
oups confusing between calendarPlugin and JSCalendarPlugin
sorry only knew the second one
:(
GuilainC takes a look about the CalendarPlugin
[20:46]
gac410GuilainC: it's FullCalendarPlugin
I just installed it from git checkout.
[20:47]
LavrI just tried to run a perltidy. It does not give a damm about what it says in the TIDY file. It still truncates my lines at 80 chars [20:48]
GuilainCah [20:49]
gac410Lavr, darn. I've never used that feature. hm. I wonder. Did you run perltidy from the cli, or use the build.pl tidy target? [20:49]
GuilainCGuilainC have a look about FullCalendarPlugin [20:49]
Lavrcli. I did not know build could do it. [20:50]
gac410foswiki_irc8: This extension uses the ObjectPlugin, and it installs several REST handlers. Foswiki 2.0 defaults them to be secure - requjire post, validation, etc. [20:50]
GuilainCFullCalendarPlugin is pretty old ! 2010 last version [20:50]
jmk0heh, I've been wondering what that file was for :D [20:50]
gac410lavr, I have not tried it. just remembering old trivia. [20:50]
GuilainCI'm sorry foswiki_irc8 you've probably reach a plugin which need serious upgrade [20:50]
foswiki_irc8yeah i saw the last update was in 2010 but i had hope :) [20:51]
GuilainCyou're right, life is better with hope :D [20:52]
gac410yeah that's my opinion too. Both FullCalendar and ObjectPlugin need some work on Foswiki 2.0. They are flagged as "CoordinateWithAuthor" so officially, we are not allowed to maintain them without permission from DavidPatterson [20:52]
GuilainCthe best foswiki is to try to see first : if some html code is produced
if yes, why it doesn't show
if not, try to find where the plugin failed
and in any case you will find
at any depth of analysis you will be
write a task...
you're time to investigated will be at least share with others
[20:52]
gac410Also HijaxPlugin is in the same shape. And tbh, in looking through the descriptions, a lot has changed since their release. Hijax attempts to layer on JSON, and JsonContrib has native support. [20:55]
jomoI'm not really understand the point of the "Coordinate with author". Example: let say, want excange in the ImagePlugin the Image::Magick (terrible 3party dependency) for the CPAN:Imager (clean perl module).
The ImagePlugin is "coordinate with author". So, when the author doesn't agree with the replace of the Image::Magick - what i should do? Create a new plugin e.g.: ImagerPlugin?
[20:59]
gac410"CoordinateWithAuthor" says the author asserts control over the extension. So you would release a new extension. [21:00]
jmk0fork that mother :D [21:00]
jomo:) yeah [21:01]
gac410MichaelDaum maintains fairly tight control over his ecosystem of extensions. They are all interdependent. [21:01]
jomoIt was only an example - nothing targeted... :D [21:01]
gac410Usually if the author thinks its a good idea, they will go along. Then there are the orphans, In those cases, I suspect the community can decide to allow changes to continue. Nothing formal process wise though.
DavidPatterson has been here off and on. though it's been quite a while now.
[21:03]
foswiki_irc8so i got this from firebug in firefox - TypeError: jQuery.curCSS is not a function return (parseFloat(jQuery.curCSS(_element, 'paddingTop', true)) || 0) +
reading on foswiki.org extensions - looks like the nov 2010 version 1.1 fixed this, but according to previous comments may not have been a great patch
[21:04]
LavrI am a little in doubt how to get my files on the git repo. I have checked out the empty MultiSearchPlugin. I have added all my files. I have done git add .
But I have no hooks or anything.
If I do git pull I get some error.
Your configuration specifies to merge with the ref 'master'
from the remote, but no such ref was fetched.
What does that mean?
"A cron script on foswiki.org runs hourly and automatically creates the required hooks"
Well more than an hour has passed now
[21:06]
jmk0time dilation, gotta move that server away from that tame black hole ;-) [21:13]
LavrPermission to foswiki/MultiSearchPlugin.git denied to KennethLavrsen [21:14]
gac410Lavr. hang on I'll look
the hooks are there. and I just added your permission.... sorry
[21:15]
LavrNo refs in common and none specified; doing nothing.
Perhaps you should specify a branch such as 'master'
[21:17]
gac4103 hooks exist. 1) IRC - we get notified here of push events. 2) email, and email is sent to the foswik-svn list. 3) Webhook. When you push, a rest handler is notified to update the teaks. [21:17]
jmk0teaks? [21:18]
gac410git remote add origin https://github.com/foswiki/MultiSearchPlugin.git
git push -u origin master
See https://github.com/foswiki/MultiSearchPlugin for some howto docs.
[21:18]
GithubBot[MultiSearchPlugin] KennethLavrsen created master (+1 new commit): http://git.io/v3BZ0
MultiSearchPlugin/master 99905aa KennethLavrsen: Item13616: Initial commit of not finished plugin
[21:19]
***GithubBot has left [21:19]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13616 [ Item13616: Development of initial version of MultiSearchPlugin ] [21:19]
gac410And the irc hook works :)
webhook worked too. task is updated with the commit.
[21:19]
Lavrgit remote add origin https://github.com/foswiki/MultiSearchPlugin.git
fatal: remote origin already exists
[21:20]
gac410you already have it. git remote -v lists them. [21:21]
jmk0old twiki plugin compatibility implemented and documented [21:21]
LavrSo why did I have to do git push -u origin master ?
it was a clone?!
[21:22]
gac410At some point with git, I just go with whatever works ;) [21:22]
LavrAnd I still have no hooks locally. [21:23]
gac410Normally you don't need the -u origin master.
You will not have hooks locally
Ah.... when you pseudo-install it, it will build the commit hooks
You mean the stuff that makes sure files are tidy, and have Tasks in the commit.
[21:23]
LavrAh. So that is pseudo?! I will try and run that now
Yes. (except I have now removed the TIDY)
[21:23]
gac410Other thing you will probably want is a "gitignore" file to ignore the "build" products. Create a starter by cd Plgins/MultiSearchPlugin && perl build.pl gitignore [21:24]
LavrI found out that with -l 120 in the command line it turns my nicely formatted multilines into long lines.
Where are all these build options described?
[21:25]
gac410Foswiki:Extensions/BuildContrib ... I think [21:25]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Extensions/BuildContrib [ BuildContrib ] [21:25]
gac410yeah it's there but not in the table of contents. [21:26]
LavrI see now. I looked at another developer doc earlier about Build contrib and it said nothing about TIDY etc etc. But I cannot remember which. We have a lot of cruft pages on f.o
I now have my hooks
[21:27]
gac410I think there is a BuldContribCookbook [21:29]
jmk0yep [21:30]
gac410One problem is we have too much duplication. And the dups fall behind.
Lavr once in a while, if foswiki.org is being stubborn, a commit hook will fail - timeout. You can use --no-verify option to skip it if you must.
[21:31]
LavrI will make a note of that [21:32]
gac410git help commit does show it.
Easier than ssh into foswiki.org and renaming a subversion hook when it's failing for some reason. :)
[21:33]
LavrYeah. NIght G [21:35]
jomogn [21:35]
LavrJUst tried to use build.pl to make DEPENDENCIES
It fails. Because of ..... tada
a dependency
[21:35]
gac410:) [21:35]
LavrCan't locate B/PerlReq.pm
I wonder what CPAN lib that refers to?
[21:35]
gac410hm I added it here at some point.
On debian it's libb-perlreq-perl
[21:36]
LavrI will try with perl-B-PerlReq as my first attempt
Nope
[21:37]
It seems the rpm does not exist for centos 7. I will not polute my perl installation with a CPAN install just for that.
It seems to in an rpm called perl-rpm-build-perl but I cannot find that for Centos/RH 7. Only for 5 and 6
[21:46]
gac410cpanm -l mylib B::PerlReq .... then add mylib to your PERL5LIB path. [22:00]
LavrI can live without. I only have few CPAN dependencies and I can see that the build script assumes that the version on the local server is the minimum which is rarely the case.
I think I can add the few by hand.
[22:06]
Night time for me now. At least I got my new plugin on git so I can easily sync between work and home and those of you that are curious can follow what I am trying to do [22:17]
.............. (idle for 1h7mn)
***jesuisse has left [23:24]

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