#foswiki 2016-01-21,Thu

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WhoWhatWhen
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gac410CDot, MichaelDaum, regarding the performance of regexes and token substitution. putBackBlocks suffered from the same issue.
See Item13820: It's probably worth providing a utility function replaceTokens( hash of $token => value )
[01:57]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13820 [ Item13820: The putBackBlocks and _putBackProtected routines are extremely inefficient. ] [01:59]
gac410Even with improved regex performance, a single scan for tokens, will still probably be faster than multiple regexes.
ping harlan, are you around?
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SvenDowideit_mmm, ping?
oh crud, @gac410's not here
I wonder if anyone in foswiki-infra would like to confirm that I should send the domain transfer codes to the email address requested
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***ChanServ sets mode: +o gac410 [05:11]
gac410Hey Sven. Yes Markus is transferring our domains [05:12]
SvenDowideit_excellent. thank you :) [05:12]
gac410I replied to your email too [05:12]
SvenDowideit_xfer codes emailed
much \0/ to see you guys having more control of the association
[05:14]
gac410Well the timing was right with a 8yo server and Koen changing hosting
Any thanks for the help Sven. Time to sleep
G'night
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SvenDowideit_nice :) [05:28]
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***ChanServ sets mode: +o MichaelDaum [07:02]
ChanServ sets mode: +o CDot [07:08]
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MichaelDaumgac410, CDot, see my notes at http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13820 [07:34]
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msnI am using nat skin on my foswiki and rnning into a proble i am not able to understand, After i log in i keep getting logged out instantly, I log in, go to /bin/configure and i am logged out already withing 1 minute or less
using Foswiki v2.0.3
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MichaelDaumprobalby not a NatSkin issue
please check your config, i.e $Foswiki::cfg{Sessions}{ExpireAfter} and $Foswiki::cfg{Sessions}{ExpireCookiesAfter}
make sure session objects can be stored on your harddisk under <foswiki-dir>/working/tmp
does the dir exist? are you running out of disk space? things like this
does your browser block or disable cookies
is there any background cron job that cleans up session objects too aggressively?
is there another foswiki installed on the same domain stealing the cookie realm from one another
such as http://localhost/old-foswiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome vs http://localhost/new-foswiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome
check $Foswiki::cfg{ScriptUrlPath} and $Foswiki::cfg{ScriptUrlPaths}{view} and $Foswiki::cfg{ScriptUrlPaths}{rest} ... do they all point to the same foswiki?
[08:15]
msnthank you [08:22]
CDotMichaelDaum: did you ever investigate is /a and/or /aa improved regex performance on 5.18? Just curious. [08:30]
MichaelDaumno never. have to look up what these flags mean. [08:31]
CDotas I read it, they force the regex to treat the string as a byte string [08:32]
msni ran into a new issue since the setup was new i just wiped my installations and reset it up now its picking data from cache from somewhere [08:32]
CDotI stumbled over them when reading perlre for something else. [08:32]
MichaelDaum/a /u sets the character set to Unicode. /l sets the character set to that of whatever Locale [08:33]
CDot/u sets the charset to unicode, IIRC [08:33]
MichaelDaumfrom what I understand /a and /u should slow down regexing on 5.18.2
regexing _is_ more complicated as char classes cover more stuff
however 5.18.2 seems to get things ... not quite right
[08:33]
CDotfrom perlre: "This modifier stands for ASCII-restrict (or ASCII-safe). This
modifier, unlike the others, may be doubled-up to increase its effect.
When it appears singly, it causes the sequences "\d", "\s", "\w", and
the Posix character classes to match only in the ASCII range. They
thus revert to their pre-5.6, pre-Unicode meanings."
so an re using /aa and \s, \w, \s should be a lot faster
[08:35]
MichaelDaumMichaelDaum dislikes magic bullets [08:36]
CDotagreed. [08:37]
MichaelDaumbtw support for 5.18 ended with 5.22 being released [08:37]
CDoty, but who knows what will happen next.
Hwoever generally better to fix the algorithms.
[08:38]
MichaelDaumthats for sure. however the issue in putBackBlocks only became striking with regexes being so slow on unicode by default [08:39]
CDotach, it was always a bad idea. Sure I could have coded it better :-( [08:39]
MichaelDaumwithout this regex-slow-down there would not have been enuf strain to come up with a better algo [08:40]
CDotI'd be interested to hear where the hotspots are in the current code (with latest perl) [08:40]
MichaelDaummost probably other parts of the core rely on regexes being fast instead of thinking of a proper algo [08:40]
CDotthe renderer certainly does. [08:41]
MichaelDaumwhat amazed me was that 30% to 50% of the call was spent in Foswiki::expandStandardEscapes... a couple of innocent regexes [08:42]
CDotthat sounds odd [08:43]
MichaelDaum(measured on a special page of a customer)
same page 1.19 vs 2.03
[08:43]
CDothmmm [08:44]
MichaelDaum1.1.9 = 2secs ... vs ... 2.0.3 = 10secs
on perl-5.18.2
[08:44]
CDotgood grief [08:45]
MichaelDaum2.0.3 got back to 2secs installing a local perl-5.22.1 [08:45]
CDotwhich raises the question, why waste time optimising the code. Perl versions seem to make it pointless. [08:45]
MichaelDaumy
and we are in a very bad position here
for me it means: all upgraders need a local perl no matter what linux distro
[08:45]
CDoty [08:47]
MichaelDaumwhich leads to the question: shall we embrace this approach of installing foswiki?
otherwise the default support question "why is my foswiki so slow after upgrading?" has to be "ugprade your perl" ... which throws most people out of the loop all together
we already are stigmatized as being too complex to install even without having to deal with a local perl
[08:47]
CDotwell, the alternatives are unpalatable (1) freeze the code, never make any improvements or (2) recod in python [08:49]
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MichaelDaum(3) docker (4) virtual image (5) install & compile scripts [08:50]
CDotCPAN! [08:50]
MichaelDaumbingo [08:50]
CDotI really don't have a problem with CPAN. Just that it would be a massive effort to move there. [08:51]
MichaelDaum... and you still wont have a local perl by default [08:51]
CDotyup [08:51]
MichaelDaummoving foswiki and its extensions to cpan would ease a local-perl-ish install, but meh.
you'd still have to do a local-perl-ish foswiki install ... i.e. not easily installed via system packaging
dpkg or rpm
where are the valgrind guys?
... whatever it takes to cover local-perl in automation
was going to mention the "java-approach": ship perl with foswiki...hahaha
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uebera||MichaelDaum: FYI: Ubuntu Vivid/Wily ship with Perl 5.20.2, Ubuntu Xenial (alpha1) aka 16.04 LTS in-the-making ships with 5.22.1. Is it possible for you to test 5.20.2 as well? Maybe a number of desktop users with current installations will not suffer by default... [10:09]
JulianLevensuebera|| I see a lot of activity between you and Koen, how complete is the work [10:17]
uebera||Actually, if one would find out how to locate that info on http://distrowatch.com/, this would make a good link which at least covers Linux.
JulianLevens: The server should be ready to take on some load (Michael suggested to install plenv, which can be done shortly). What's missing is a final test of some features, a sync of the f.o contents and control over the domains. See the FoswikiOrgServer topic.
[10:17]
JulianLevensThanks, seen the topic, but a one line summary is appreciated [10:23]
MichaelDaumuebera||, yes things are moving on with perl in upcoming distros. but the problem is on the table for people isntalling foswiki _now_
Honestly, these perl problems have always been a hassle. And I dont expect them to go away ever.
[10:26]
uebera||Sure. A note of warning on the download page is definitely a good thing. But if Perl 5.20.2 is good enough, at least users of current (major) Linux distro versions should be OK. [10:27]
JulianLevensMichaelDaum: I'll add plenv etc to http://foswiki.org/Development/FoswikiVagrant [10:29]
MichaelDaummint: 5.18.2, debian: 5.22.1, ubuntu latest lts: 5.18.2, suse: 5.18.2, fedora 23: 5.22.0, centos: 5.16.3, rhel: 5.16.3, slackware: 5.18.1
uebera||, I can't confirm major distros are even on 5.20.2
but I not gonna fight numbers, they change soon anyway, hopefully
problem is that Foswiki has a performance problem due to people regularly installing it on a bad platform ... by now a definition of "bad platform" means: almost all.
JulianLevens, great
[10:31]
uebera||From the "never change a running system" angle, you're right of course. No point in assuming the majority of the user base is running up-to-date versions. [10:37]
MichaelDaumjust remember the past discussions on new foswiki features: one of the most common cases of them being rejected was missing perl support enterprise distros ... just recently http://foswiki.org/Development/ImproveOOModel
this feature proposal is currently blocked by Kenneth for exactly this reason
Moo support
now what about PSGI support? we havent even investigated. expect to hit a wall there as well.
run (f)cgi and till the end of eternity?
how about adding cpanm to ConfigurePlugin
[10:40]
rathierAnyone noticed a problem involving TagMePlugin and SubscribePlugin? I just noticed, while playing around with the FamFamFam-subscribe-icon, that the tag-file of the topic I was using the button gets renamed to the tag-file of Main.WebNotify (.../foswiki/working/work_areas/TagMePlugin/_tags_Main.WebNotify.txt).
subscribing and unsubscribing of several topics leads to deletion of the tag-information, of course. _tags_Main.WebNotify.txt only shows the tags of the last topic one subscribed to
I need to investigate a bit further before creating a bug report. I was just curious, if anyone noticed anything.
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msnand back to same problem, reinstall fresh foswiki-2.0.3 finish configuration and i can't keep logged in keep getting logged out instantly can't do anything [11:32]
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JulianLevensmsn did you work thru this list earlier: http://irclogs.foswiki.org/bin/irclogger_log/foswiki?date=2016-01-21,Thu&sel=27#l23
Did you re-install on the same server?
[12:15]
msnyes [12:16]
JulianLevensy to which question? [12:19]
msnreinstall on same server
okay now i narrowed the problem down, when i refresh /bin/configure i get logged out
[12:24]
JulianLevensSorry, I don't know this area too well, I'd only be guessing -- wildly :(
I will say that re-installing on the same server is a clue (possibly) that the error is elsewhere on the server, i.e. it's not a FW conf issue
OTOH, maybe it is a FW conf issue
JulianLevens sits on the fence
[12:27]
msnFW works :)
FW?
i mean its working i have to spend more time, currently everytime i save i get a 405 so there IS some config issue somewhere, probably nginx
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ColasHome [14:05]
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***ChanServ sets mode: +o gac410 [14:47]
gac410Can't stay long. But on 2.0 changing client IP will kill session too
IP matching is enabled by default
[14:48]
Re perl. F.O has been on perl 5.18 for a while and its not been a disaster
Still our current std escapes is used a lot so an improved algorithm would be worthwhile.
Sorry to hit & run but gotta go... cu later
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jastfoswiki developers on github: apologies for the mail spam from gitter. I misclicked because their web interface froze. [15:52]
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uebera||Is there a reason that the v2 configure does not report which version of Perl is being used anymore? [16:33]
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gac410Markus. See System.FoswikiServerInformation
A lot of the configure reports were moved to topics
uebera||:
Also System.PerlDependencyReport
Should give more info than the old configure
[16:41]
uebera||Ah! Thanks. [16:45]
Interesting. Some of the values contained on FoswikiServerInformation look odd on the new server (detected operating system, userid). [16:50]
gac410If you copied localsite might be stale info [16:59]
uebera||No, those two settings definitely come from the new server. [17:02]
gac410gac410 is on cell phone ... gotta run
Might be bug in detection as well
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***ChanServ sets mode: +o Lynnwood [23:34]
LynnwoodI just found a nasty bug in VarENCODE where type "quote" is broken by an html link that uses quotes (such as is created via WYSIWYG editor).
http://foswiki.org/Sandbox/TestEncodeWithLinks
I'll file a bug later...
what a day... someone hit my truck yesterday, probably totalling it. We're suppose to get 2 feet of snow tonight and I need my truck to get in an out.
A while ago a client contacted me with a "little problem" that they wanted fixed before presetnation to CEO tomorrow at 10am. ..Which lead me to discover this issue and I can't for the life of me figure a work-a-round yet.
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