#foswiki 2016-02-11,Thu

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WhoWhatWhen
foswiki_irc3SO, my new wiki installation is at the "welcome to foswiki" page and all of the links to what should be the home page give 404 errors. what are some things i can try? [01:24]
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gac410What web server?
Hi foswiki_irc3 ... sorry, my speaker was muted, didn't see your question. If you are using Apache, did you use the ApacheConfigGenerator?
DEVELOPERS: The Release02x01 branch has been created. master is ready to accept merges of stable features, bugfixes, etc.
Please cherry-pick any bug-fixes that should be in Foswiki 2.1 into the Release02x01 branch
It's also been imported into weblate, As usual, please translate master, and let the translations propagate down into the other branches.
[01:43]
foswiki_irc3i am using apache. [01:52]
gac410How did you configure it? Foswiki:Support.ApacheConfigGenerator? [01:52]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Support.ApacheConfigGenerator? [ ApacheConfigGenerator ] [01:53]
foswiki_irc3did that. my permissions should be good but do you have a link to the bug fixes? that could be it [01:54]
gac410bug fixes? Nothing pending that would cause 404 errors. I'm more suspicious of the server config for that.
First. what do you want your URL to look like. Unless you are running more than foswiki on that apache host, most want "short" URLs http://yoursite.com/Main/WebHome
The old "long URLs" look like http://yoursite.com/foswiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome
[01:54]
foswiki_irc3im pointing it at localhost/foswiki
trying to not use short urls for now
[01:56]
gac410okay. So if you enter localhost/foswiki/bin/view you get a 404?
can you put your Apache foswiki configuration on http://pastebin.com set a short lifetime so I can take a look?
[01:57]
foswiki_irc3not any more. after banging my head i remembered 3 little commands to enable some apache services -.-
the little things i guess....
[01:58]
gac410Ah... a2enmod cgid or cgi? [01:59]
foswiki_irc3but thank you! [01:59]
gac410okay. I'm somewhat hanging around ... ask questions and hopefully I'll hear the speaker ping. [01:59]
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vrurggac410: are you available? [03:11]
gac410yes
what's up?
[03:12]
vrurgWhat is the context for 'Cache =refresh=all= denied for non-admin users.' phrase?
Not sure how to translate it.
[03:13]
gac410It's possible to add ?refresh=all as a url param. That clears the entire page cache, for all topics / webs. Rather significant impact
we decided to restrict that to admins
So users won't see that unless they go editing their url. No links actually generate that urlparam
[03:15]
vrurgI understand the idea. It's the exact sense of 'Cache =refresh=all=' which escapes me. [03:16]
gac410somesite.org/Main/WebHome?refresh=all
It's a query param to clear the entire cache.
[03:16]
vrurgI'm afraid this is where my English does fail. Ok, if I didn't do it right – hopefully it will be reported some day. [03:20]
gac410Okay. It's a really unusual message for anyone to get. It just says you tried to do something that only admins can do. [03:20]
vrurgJust didn't want to make the translation look is if it was quickly chopped by an axe. ;) Or ever war-axe. ;)
This part will be understood cleary, here it's no doubt. Ok, thanks and g'night!
[03:20]
gac410g'night. and thanks for all the work. [03:22]
vrurgSame to you too! (one last: damn I'm vain! Love to be first to make it 100% translated. ;) Shamefull but content... ;) ) [03:24]
gac410:) [03:24]
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EisNerdjast: sounds great thanks [05:42]
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ChanServ sets mode: +o MichaelDaum [06:56]
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EisNerdjast: http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13956 [08:08]
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***ChanServ sets mode: +o CDot [09:03]
LavrSitting here taking the first "support calls" from users after the upgrade from 1.1.9 to 2.1.0. Only issue is that people need to reload with control-F5 to clear the cache.
It all looks good.
I have just found one problem and that is the Wysiwyg editor is not good at handling the new indent syntax. If you try and leave a blank line to make an indented paragraph the Wysiwyg editor eats the blank line and merge the indented lines.
Bug item it on the way
[09:12]
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LavrBullet rendering has been broken since 1.1.9.
Urgent report being opened on that
[09:37]
That was 3 urgent bugs. I think the last 2 must be easy to fix. Some regex gone wrong or spec misunderstood.
I have had 5 people now with a problem with cached content. And they cannot even see the alert text where I ask them to hit control-F5
[09:44]
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***ChanServ sets mode: +o gac410 [13:19]
gac410/mode +v FoswikiBot [13:22]
***gac410 sets mode: +v FoswikiBot [13:22]
LavrHi George. So far, so good. The 3 bug items I raised today I saw myself. And I am sorry i did not notice when I tested 2.0 [13:30]
gac410Hi Kenneth, thanks. and no problem. There is also Item13344 which might be related [13:32]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13344 [ Item13344: Wysiwyg corrupts markup with mixed indent (:) and list markup ] [13:32]
gac410TinyMCE and Wysiwyg really needs someone to apply some TLC It really needs a refresh to the new mce editor as well. [13:34]
LavrYes. It seems to be related. I just found one old bug that we also have in 1.1.9.
In the Wysiwyg editor - if you edit a table with numbers and set the cells to align to the right and save that works.
Unless the number is exactly a 0
Seems to be a typical if $something then where people forget that $something can be a 0
[13:34]
gac410yup... I was just typing that. [13:35]
LavrI am trying to find where in the code that happens. The processing is written very cryptic
It must be related to the cleaning out of leading and trailing white space. It leaves a leading double space correctly except when the content of the cell is 0. And that happens quite often.
I will open a bug item for that too
[13:36]
gac410Check the list at http://foswiki.org/Tasks/WysiwygComponent
MichaelDaum: I implemented the blocking of guest cache refresh as you suggested, and also manually applied it to foswiki.org to cut down the bot load.
[13:38]
MichaelDaumgac410, hi, yea, seen that.
though I'd prefer not make it throw an exception and instead silently ignore the refresh request
i.e. this is gonna hurt on rest calls having some refresh param in it
[13:39]
gac410hm ugh... collisions of params. [13:40]
MichaelDauminstead of returning a json as expected by some frontend, it will end up returning html ... and create a parse error [13:41]
gac410On the other side, someone who is used to refresh working, will have a mystery where it just silently does nothing. [13:41]
MichaelDaumrefresh=xyz is not a critical error being issued by a non-admin. so why throw an exception ... is the way I'd approach this [13:41]
gac410Maybe we should treat refresh=all as a simple refresh=cache then. [13:42]
MichaelDaumit is not like you over-booked your free days applying for holidays at your company ;) [13:43]
gac410Generally I really dislike 'silent errors' It can lead to hours of head scratching. Say I'm a " Configure user" but not in the AdminGroup. ... might be possible. So i make a configure change, and then refresh=all and I get no feedback
Or I forget to sudo to admin.
how about only throw the exception for the view* script
[13:44]
MichaelDaumyea thats safe presumably
"silent error" .... point is it is not an error
like "wrong password" or ... "file not found" ... or ... "disk exploded, sorry"
refreshing the cache is performed as a side-effect to normal operations
and normal operations are better not harmed that way ... imho
[13:46]
gac410If I'm an admin, Change a plugin, from configure, which i do NOT need to be in the AdminGroup. And then hop over and enter refresh=all ... it happily responds and I go home to sleep with a broken site. [13:47]
MichaelDaumtough life [13:48]
gac410Heck I'm often that way on Foswiki.org. I don't like being in the admin group by default. [13:48]
MichaelDaumwhy broken site? [13:48]
gac410Depending on what was changed, users are getting stale templates, etc. [13:48]
Lavrmaybe any save from configure should trigger a "just in case" cache refresh. it is a rare event and very likely needed [13:49]
MichaelDaumsee, I've been burned all too often by exceptions during rest calls. this - too - sux. [13:49]
gac410I'm sorry, but if I say "Do X" and that is rejected, I deserve to be TOLD!
Lavr ... I think you are right.
The error is that we really ought to reserve a class of query params that are "foswiki use only" _foswikiREFRESH vs... refresh for ex.
Heck if an unrelated rest handler is using refresh=all, it's possible that sites are currently having their cache reset at random. collisions are BAD.
[13:49]
LavrI personally never dared enabling the cache. I had too much touble with it when I tried years ago. [13:53]
gac410The 2.x cache is MUCH better.
We are running now with it on both Foswiki.org and trunk.foswiki.org.
[13:53]
LavrAt the moment I have no performance issues that cannot be done by raw power ;-) and my MultiSearchPlugin
The only performance issue I may still have is related to renaming and moving topics. The global search for back links takes too long if you do not limit the function to current web
Actually. That runs much better now on my 2.1. is it code or just more power. it is much much faster
[13:54]
gac410I don't think we did anything in that area. Though backlinks (at least the user requested version) are very badly broken
A-Za-z0-9 type broken.
JulianLevens has a proposal to fix that .. but it's rather significant effort. Hopefully for Foswiki 2.2
[13:57]
LavrJust tried to rename a topic with a [[][]] type link in another subweb of another web. It found it and changed the link. But that is with A-Z0-1 topic name. I see very few none AZ links in my wiki [13:59]
gac410The backlinks template has stuff like: search="%TOPIC%([^A-Za-z0-9]|$)|%SPACEOUT{"%TOPIC%" separator="([^A-Za-z0-9]*?)"}%([^A-Za-z0-9]|$)|%WEB%.%TOPIC%([^A-Za-z0-9]|$)"
Building a regex by stringing together pieces as the separators. Took me forever to understand wtf that was doing.
[14:02]
LavrIt is strage. I renamed a topic from an A-Z to a topic name with Danish letters. And that went well.
Then I renamed it back and it found the backlinks in the other web inside [[]]. But it ignored the backlinks in the same web that were plain WikiWord. I think it is the WikiWord definition that sucks. It can find topic back links
[14:04]
gac410The problem is that backlinks are much more complex than a simple regex could ever hope to find. [14:07]
LavrYes. But in this case it seem it is just the definition of WikiWord that is not clear. When we went utf-8 have we also followed up with a proper new def of WikiWord? [14:08]
gac410see http://foswiki.org/Development/AddBacklinksToQuery
Lavr, yes as far as I know the wikiword regexes are linking i18n wikiwords just fine.
[14:08]
LavrOne thing is speed. Another is a bug in the current code. it seems we just forgot one corner of making Foswiki utf-8 [14:09]
gac410I think jomo did a lot of testing in that area
Backlinks was not forgotten. It was so complex it was decided to defer.
[14:09]
LavrYes. I just tried a Danish language wikiword.
Would it work by replacing the [A-Za-z0-9] by a proper character class?
Ha. My own old bug item
[14:09]
gac410I really don't know. I find that regex horribly confusing and there are a bunch of them See the *backlink* templates i [14:11]
Lavr9289
Crawford says "The A-Z referred to is in templates. Not sure how to put unicode character ranges into searches, as the search engines are not required to support any specific classes. frown, sad smile The templates also don't provide any way to quotemeta."
So that is the issue.
[14:11]
gac410Julian's plan is to add "backlinks" as a formal construct in the QUERY search language. and then work on Stores to optimize how they are found.
+
ignore that. leaned on kbd
[14:13]
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Lavr, It's the HTML2TML process I think, and it can't do any alignment if the cell contents is 0. Always returns " 0 " for center or right. [14:49]
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Lavr: Wrote a unit test. and have a fix. Checked in. See https://github.com/foswiki/distro/commit/1c0c0b0b444c [15:16]
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[16:38]
LavrI have a new bug that breaks one of our applications. QUERY macro does not work
This is a QUERY that is supposed to show a formfield value and it works in 1.1.9
%QUERY{"'%TOPIC%'/ProcessDocTWikiForm.DocumentStatus"}%
ProcessDocTWikiForm is the name of the form and DocumentStatus is the name of the field
[16:49]
gac410ugh. QUERY ... /me backs slowly away from the keyboard Darn.. .MichaelDaum isn't here. [16:50]
LavrI just changed my app to use %FORMFIELD instead.
But Query returns nothing.
Nothing in the Apache error log
[16:53]
gac410Lavr, it works without the form name.
%QUERY{"'Usersweb.JoeUser'/FirstName"}% works. %QUERY{"'Usersweb.JoeUser'/UserForm.FirstName"}% does not.
[17:03]
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LavrIt is supposed to work with the formname also. The other is a short form [17:06]
gac410I have some vague recollections of discussions in that area. I've been unable to find it. Long time ago. Probably when pharvey and sven were active.
Another dev who might understand all this is JulianLevens
[17:07]
LavrHey. You fixed the allignment of zeroes issue? [17:08]
gac410yes [17:09]
LavrThanks! I will patch that right away
My hero!
[17:09]
gac410Well on query search, I'll probably be a goat, no hero in that part of the code here anyway. [17:10]
LavrI just checked my wiki. I think I use QUERY two places. I always hated that macro because the syntax is NerdoMeter level 8 or so [17:11]
gac410I hate to say it, but QUERY syntax is in desperate need for examples. Lots of examples. which would also serve as a testcase. [17:21]
LavrYes. The documentation for that Macro is very incomplete and you need to guess the syntax by reading the QuerySearch topic. [17:23]
gac410It's also confusing. Some cases depend on whether the form meta includes the web in the form name. [17:24]
LavrI use Query type search all the time but I always use the simple "field = 'value' AND fold = 'othervalue'" syntax [17:24]
gac410y [17:24]
LavrThat 'something'/'something'[other]{maybe}/\\hello.value syntax is ARCH! [17:25]
gac410Lavr ... check out http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item10484 [17:26]
LavrI have patched the Wysiwyg and tested it and it works beautifully. Jacob - my business manager will love you for that.
Yes. That is the same thing.
A minimum is to document how it is supposed to work. I will do a global search now at file level for the string %QUERY and see how many places I really have it
[17:26]
I use QUERY only a few places. And all the remaining is in the short form %QUERY{"fieldname"}%
So I am all set. I have been unlucky and by chance found some quirk that worked 10 years ago
or so
[17:41]
gac410So overall a reasonable results? [17:42]
LavrIt works fine in the simple form. The issue seems to be when you put the formname there [17:43]
gac410A good one for CDot and Julian The query parser it beyond me I'm afraid
IMO it should work with the form name, as eventually multiple forms will be supported ... I hope.
[17:43]
Lavrtopic/formname.fieldname does not work - the simple form works.
I think the problem is that topic/formname could also be web/topicname
so is nana/nono.foo the foo field in the nono form in the nana topic?
Or is foo the fieldname of the nono topic in the nana web
I think that was what Crawford refered to as badly speced.
[17:44]
gac410y it will be a difficult one to redesign. [17:46]
LavrI think it has been redesigned to mean foo the fieldname of the nono topic in the nana web
But not documented! And no noise made about the fixing of the spec.
[17:47]
gac410We went through a long period of semi-implemented proposals, while everyone waffled about what to put into 1.2 aka 2.0. And as dev's drifted away it was hell to figure out what was actually usable and what should be left to die.
We seem to be in a better place now, where features are in their own branches until stable to merge. hopefully "trunk" will never become quite so "unknown" as it was.
[17:49]
LavrYes. Surely.
You run into many strange thing when you install a new server.
One of my cron jobs is a primitive backup script that tgz the whole site and ftp it to some remote Sun Unix machine.
And that backup did not run.
[17:51]
gac410y. The move of foswiki.org onto the new hosting site was pretty smooth actually. [17:53]
LavrIt turned out that the new machine did not have ftp installed :-)
yum install ftp. That was an easy one :-)
Oh we moved? I have missed that
[17:53]
gac410y. gmc's hosting was expiring, and old server was 10 years old. Moved to an SSD on netcups [17:54]
LavrAh. Cool. [17:55]
gac410BTW... the Danish translation has fallen behind a bit. translate.foswiki.org
24 untranslated, 12 "fuzzy" so 36 overall will be presented in english.
[17:55]
LavrHmm. Bad. I sort of lost how I do it. We moved tool, right? [17:57]
gac410Y. http://translate.foswiki.org. Pretty easy to use, translate master and it syncs up all the other branches.
Looks like you never registered :(
[17:57]
LavrI have tried before to login with my Foswiki password. [17:58]
gac410You need to register.
We don't have any SSO system. it's now hosted on a Modell Achen server
[17:58]
LavrOK. I have registered. Waiting for confirmation mail [18:00]
gac410As soon as you register, I'll flip your ID to "approved user" so you can translate. Best to use same email address as on foswiki.org and github if possible. If not, we'll deal with it. somehow. ;) [18:00]
LavrStill waitnig for email to arrive [18:04]
gac410not sure why. maybe backed up through modell achen's servers. Or could be a SPF issue. Did you check spam folders?
ping jast ... you around?
Unfortunately I don't really have any insight into the server.
[18:05]
LavrNo mail [18:10]
gac410I'll need help from Jast I guess. He's the only one who can look at the server [18:11]
LavrChecked junk [18:11]
gac410I can add you manually I think.
I'll try adding you ... Username KennethLavrsen okay?
[18:11]
Lavrperfect and kenneth at lavrsen.dk as email [18:13]
gac410should be all set. Sent you pm with password. [18:15]
LavrI am in and passwd changed [18:21]
gac410okay great.. You are already approved to translate. [18:21]
Lavronly 1 of the branches? [18:21]
gac410Just translate master. It should push to the others.
cross-branch translation. MUCH better than pootle. Though pootle had a bit more granular auth control.
[18:22]
LavrOK [18:22]
foswiki_irc8hi all, have a question which is probably easy but i've been banging my head up against it for a couple of hours.. [18:29]
gac410what's the question [18:29]
foswiki_irc8..i need to install some webs and have moved the data/pubs files into the right place
chmod'd -R
and chown'd -R
and all looks like the content already in the default
but not displaying in the wiki.. im being stupid but not sure how ;)
[18:29]
gac410Where did the webs come from? Another foswiki site? [18:31]
foswiki_irc8yeah and i've been told to just copy them in. im not very familiar with foswiki as you can tell [18:31]
gac410A web exists when... Web name starts with an upper case alpha, and the directory contains a file named "WebPreferences.txt"
what version of foswiki are you running?
[18:32]
foswiki_irc8just checked and they do start with a capaital and have a WebPreferences.txt in the folder
the latest.. just downloaded it today
2.0.3
[18:33]
gac410Also, If the WebPreferences has security settings, ALLOWWEBVIEW or DENYWEBVIEW, then you might not be able to see them unless you are admin
2.1.0 is the latest been out for a week or so.
[18:34]
foswiki_irc8ah ok didnt realise that.. will check. thanks for the tip [18:34]
gac410Where is something claiming 2.0.3 is the latest. Maybe we missed updating something ??
If the webs are from an older foswiki vesion 1.x then you must go through conversion from the old character set to utf-8
[18:35]
foswiki_irc8ah sorry should have said that was the vm version [18:36]
gac410Ah.. yes we did not rebuild the VM yet. That's a bit of effort.
gac410 needs to work on that :(
[18:37]
foswiki_irc8it looks like its a group in allowwebview - will try that first and if not check they are utf-8
thanks for your help
[18:37]
gac410you're welcome
See Foswiki:System.UpgradeGuide for guidance on moving to the new version.
[18:38]
foswiki_irc8its ok im sure 2.0.3 will be fine :) [18:38]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/System.UpgradeGuide [ UpgradeGuide ] [18:38]
foswiki_irc8and vm was so much easier for what i needed it for (quick and dirty local install to see the content) [18:38]
gac410Yeah. There are a few isues in 2.0.3, but generally it's okay.
If it's just to view the content, not going to be longer lived, you could set the {Store}{Encoding} to match the file encoding of the old data.
Usually ISO-8859-1, though if windows users were cutting & pasting, then cp-1252 is more likely
[18:39]
foswiki_irc8ah ok cool [18:40]
@gac410 - yes it was the ALLOWWEBVIEW having a group set.. you are a star - thank you :) [18:46]
gac410yw. [18:46]
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Lavr: I just did the commit & push, your translations have all been applied, and it picked up the right wikiname for the task updates. Thanks! [19:27]
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JaniHis there a "standard" regular expression that validates a windows filename? [19:50]
gac410JaniH: Not that I know of ... file systems are pretty accepting Google is your friend
BTW, you were asking about the EDITFORMFIELD macro the other day?
Foswiki has an extension that is a lot more capable, so we will not plan in implementing that macro.
http://foswiki.org/Extensions/FlexFormPlugin#RENDERFOREDIT
[19:51]
JaniHgac410: I've spent a bit of time googling but figured I'd come here to see if there's something simpler than what people have posted on forums. [19:56]
gac410Not many windows users here [19:57]
JaniHgac410: thanks for the info on the extension. I'll take a look. I've been really struggling with getting things going in TWiki and forms [19:57]
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could anyone help me understand the query search with arrays? I'm trying to display all topics with a specific parent, topic name starting with Inn, and a link to the most recent attachment the topic? [22:47]

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