#foswiki 2016-10-26,Wed

↑back Search ←Prev date Next date→ Show only urls(Click on time to select a line by its url)

WhoWhatWhen
***ChanServ sets mode: +o gac410 [02:39]
................ (idle for 1h19mn)
gac410 has left [03:58]
............................... (idle for 2h34mn)
ChanServ sets mode: +o CDot [06:32]
............................................................................... (idle for 6h34mn)
ChanServ sets mode: +o gac410 [13:06]
..... (idle for 21mn)
jasthi everyone [13:27]
gac410hiya jast [13:27]
jastI've got some vaguely sad news... today is my last day at Modell Aachen
which means I will be even less active here :( (but I won't disappear)
[13:28]
gac410Sorry to hear that ... Hopefully moving on to bigger/better things? [13:28]
jastyeah, basically I have decided it's time for something new [13:29]
gac410well good then... at least it's your decision so congratulations
Do you have a contact for the translation server? Or do we need to look for a replacement hosting?
[13:30]
jastyeah, I was about to tell you how that's gonna work [13:31]
gac410better to discuss privately? [13:31]
jastModell Aachen will keep hosting the server, but we haven't figured out the ideal way to handle it internally. for now you can send an e-mail to our ticket system at support@modell-aachen.de [13:31]
gac410oh okay. [13:31]
jastI will lose all my access, unfortunately :) [13:32]
gac410not unexpected [13:32]
jastyeah, and I'm not complaining... means less work for me ;) [13:32]
gac410Moving to another employer, or are you striking out on your own? [13:33]
jastanother employer for now
web/comm development, no wikis ;)
[13:34]
gac410well you're always welcome as a "hobby" developer here :D [13:35]
jastI'll stick around on IRC, though, maybe even chime in a little. but I'm not actively using Foswiki, so you probably won't see any huge fixes from me...
OTOH, after all the time I've spent with Foswiki I know its strengths very well
[13:35]
gac410We certainly are in serious need for anyone to answer occasional LDAP questions. [13:37]
jastso, who knows...
yeah, I might be able to help out with stuff like that from time to time
[13:37]
gac410People really struggle esp. with AD integration, and I always feel bad that I cannot help them. [13:37]
jastit's not actually extremely complicated once you know your way around 'em, but that part does take time
and Microsoft sure loves numerical error codes
[13:38]
gac410do you know if Modell-aachen will continue to support / contribute to fw development? or will their fork gradually drift away from us. [13:41]
jastI don't really know for sure
the bulk of our work has always been on separate plugins
we have maybe ten lines worth of patches to the core, containing things that weren't/aren't suitable for merging
the main tangle is in some of the extensions we've customized a little, sometimes in ways the original maintainer wasn't terribly enthusiastic about
[13:43]
gac410okay. well your work toward a new authen model will be missed. [13:45]
jastit's fairly likely that work will be continued, I just don't know when
but given the many conflicting goals, I can see how it will be very attractive for MA to keep it in a contrib and not spend too much time on trying to run the Foswiki feature proposal gauntlet ;)
that's just my impression, there are no concrete plans either way from what I know
[13:46]
gac410Well if the new OO branch gets mainstreamed .. which I expect it will, it will have a very drastic impact on the whole extension / plugin model. [13:47]
jastyeah, the OO change has high potential for alienation, unfortunately [13:48]
gac410y. but having seen the internals and some of the poor decisions made over the decades of patching patches, some internal redesign is rather badly needed. [13:49]
jastI can't really disagree
it's a difficult situation to code your way out of, that's for sure
[13:50]
gac410y. Perl itself is changing, Stuff like CGI, Error, etc. being deprecated with core recommendations to use other stuff like Plack / PSGI makes it hard to justify keeping on with the old ways. [13:51]
jast(mostly irrelevant side note, I've spent some time looking at Perl 6 and I really like it... but that would be even more of a rewrite) [13:52]
gac410Moo / Moose et. al supposedly bring in a lot of 6-ish behavior, if I understand some of the stuff I've read. But I've never looked at P6 [13:53]
jastP6 has some actual innovation, things I haven't seen anywhere else so far
just one example, an operator to run a method on all members of a list, and return the results as a list
[13:53]
gac410But "that other projects" decision to just bundle an old CGI (with it's security baggage) is really not a good solution at all. [13:54]
jastit's a "simple" solution [13:54]
gac410And the bug in CGI::Session::Driver which causes taint issues .. .and appears to be not being fixed by upstream, is another really annoyance and a good reason to leave some crap behind.
Unfortunately it seems to be more the trend, like in JQuery too, it seems just more acceptable for new versions to break all of the older deployments. Really annoying, but we certainly will not be the first.
I liked some thinking that we keep 2.1.2 (or 2.2 if we ever get some features integrated) as an LTS version. and just commit to critical bugfixes on it for some time.
[13:55]
anyway jast, best of luck to you. [14:06]
jastthanks
same to you and everyone else here, and I'll be watching ;)
[14:10]
......... (idle for 43mn)
stefan_slightgac410 & jast: want to let you know my LDAP intergration is working - the errors i got the last time went away without me touching something (i think) :-) [14:53]
gac410glad to hear it ... [14:54]
stefan_slightwe (my college and i) only observed a very wired problem/bug/behavior if we tried to switch the precaching in LdapContrib to off - we had to kill the perl process because it did not stop with requesting the ldap server and filling up the ram...
for us now it all works :-)
[14:55]
can someone of you give me a hint which plugin to try first for a attachment-content search feature?
i found KinoSearchContrib and Solr Plugin
seems they are both based on the same searchengine technology... the SolrPlugin has a newer change history..
[15:01]
gac410y I think Solr is the latest. ' [15:04]
stefan_slightok thanks - then i will try this next time iam working on our intranet wiki.. [15:05]
.... (idle for 16mn)
jastmore work has definitely gone into SolrPlugin [15:21]
.................... (idle for 1h37mn)
***ChanServ sets mode: +o gac410 [16:58]
.............................. (idle for 2h26mn)
foswiki_irc5Hey guys. Slack invite process busted? [19:24]
gac410foswiki_irc5: no idea ... the dev who set up the slack connection is away, traveling for the last week or so. [19:25]
foswiki_irc5My Linux Sys Admin skills are pretty good. But I gave up on installing MediaWiki, and then DokuWiki and now I think FosWiki too. I don't know what it is about wiki apps, but the install process is crazy complex. What's up with that?
I have never failed at installing an app before.
[19:26]
gac410foswiki_irc5: foswiki is usually pretty straight forward if the dependencies are all met. [19:27]
foswiki_irc5Exactly. But for the life of me, I can't get all the CPAN modules installed. [19:28]
gac410What is going wrong for you. What web server are you using?
And what distribution
[19:28]
foswiki_irc5tools/dependencies reports missing modules and they won't install. [19:28]
gac410won't install? what OS distribution? [19:28]
foswiki_irc5Debian Jessie. Was trying with nginx, but gave up and now I am trying with Apache. [19:29]
gac410Debian packages are all listed on Foswiki:System.SystemRequirements. Should be able to just c/p the apt-get install example on that page [19:29]
FoswikiBothttps://foswiki.org/System.SystemRequirements. [ SystemRequirements ] [19:30]
gac410Page down to your Debian distribution and click the "show debian / ubuntu information" [19:30]
foswiki_irc5Did that before. Trying again. [19:31]
gac410What dependencies are reported as missing? hm I think I have a jessie vm somewhere [19:32]
foswiki_irc5Crypt::SMIME is one of them. [19:32]
gac410Ah... That's optional, you don't need it. [19:33]
foswiki_irc5It complains that Pg and mysql are missing, but that makes sense since they won't build because I have not installed PG or MySQL yet. [19:33]
gac410Unless you are in an enterprise that really wants to send signed email. Don't need them either ... [19:33]
foswiki_irc5OK. What about Apache2::Request or Apache::Request
They won't install either.
[19:33]
gac410Pg and and/or mysql ... choose one, if you want to enable a real DB behind the page cache.
Nope... They are for mod_perl. No need for that either. fcgi is preferred anyway.
They should be all reported as "optional" ... I hope.
[19:34]
foswiki_irc5Great. So, tools/dependencies lists non-dependencies.
I'll keep moving forward then. Thanks,.
[19:34]
gac410It checks all packages including those listed as Optional, and should state ouright "optional" [19:35]
................ (idle for 1h19mn)
GithubBot[distro] gac410 pushed 1 new commit to Release02x01: https://git.io/vXfvh
distro/Release02x01 8f6b0e7 George Clark: Item13883: Update dependencies...
[20:54]
***GithubBot has left [20:54]
FoswikiBothttps://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13883 [ Item13883: Documentation changes for master and 2.1 ] [20:54]
........... (idle for 50mn)
foswiki_irc0I've now given up on installing Foswiki too. I've been doing advanced Linux Sys admin for 15+ years, and I have never run into an app that is so difficult to install. The dev team needs to take an average user, who has never installed Foswiki before, and watch the trouble they run into. Give them ZERO help. Let them fight like everyone else would - and you will be amazed at how difficult it is.
Now, resolve that, and you will have the entire market coming to Foswiki,.
[21:44]
......... (idle for 40mn)
uebera||foswiki_irc0: In retrospect, could you give us a hint or two what did not work out (which step(s)) for you? [22:24]
......... (idle for 41mn)
gac410foswiki_irc0: were you on earlier as foswiki_irc5? [23:05]
foswiki_irc0Yes. That was me.
I just created the apache conf file and it doesn't work.
I'm sure it is something small, but I have hit so many small things, it has taken far far too much time.
[23:07]
gac410How did you create the config? Foswiki:Support.ApacheConfigGenerator? [23:07]
FoswikiBothttps://foswiki.org/Support.ApacheConfigGenerator? [ ApacheConfigGenerator ] [23:07]
foswiki_irc0It should be 'apt-get install foswiki' and done.
Or 'dpkg -i somefile'
APache config separate.
[23:08]
gac410We need a developer willing to build .deb packages. They exist as an old version, but that dev left the project. And took his build tools with him :( [23:08]
foswiki_irc0That Apache config builder asked questions that were confusing and others it shouldn't care, or should be able to figure out itself.
Perhaps the Debian steps assume a 'full' Debian install like Linux Mint Debian Edition or something?
[23:09]
gac410"Debian steps?" What's is that? [23:10]
foswiki_irc0I usually start with a bare bones extremely minimal Debian install for security reasons.
Debian instructions.
Let's tackle it this way. How long should it take to install?
[23:10]
gac410Part of the InstallationGuide? or some other topic.
15 minutes or so? if that. I'm the Release Manger for the last few releases. Install it all the time as part of testing.
We'd really like to have packages, but really need a developer to build them. (And rpm and ebuild and pkg and ...)
[23:11]
foswiki_irc0Cool. How about we work a deal where I pay you to install it?
It is on a dedicated VPS, so there is nothing else that could '
.... that could break.
[23:13]
gac410Where are you located. I'm one of the consultants, but tbh I'm not all that up for work right now. [23:15]
foswiki_irc0You could email me your public SSH key, and I can give you sudo. Then change the password when you are done.
North of Toronto.
[23:15]
gac410Back to ApacheConfigGenerator. What was confusing, and what did you feel we should not ask. [23:16]
foswiki_irc0Sorry. I am WAY past my limit on investing time in this. I appreciate the answer would be helpful, but that's why you need to get a non-developer to do it.
For example; There are 3 bullets under "Generate configuration for Foswiki version".
They can all be removed. They add zero value.
All they have to do is pick the right version. If they can't do that, they've got bigger problems and will fail.
[23:23]
gac410Yeah, they were important during the transition between releases, but now that anyone installing would be on 2.x anyway. I'll remove them. [23:27]
foswiki_irc0For the Apache virtual hosts section ....
Most people don't know the difference, and every conf file has a 'virtualhost' in it, so they assume they must be.
So, then they think they must complete the hostname and port. But ...
then if the FQDN has a sub domain, it adds a alias that is not correct to the file.
For example, I added 'wiki.cryptochat.io' as the host name, and it added 'www.wiki.cryptochat.io' as an alias.
[23:28]
gac410er. I regularly see users who do Not use VirtualHost, and just activate foswiki on the default url/host. ... yeah the alias ought to go. I usually delete it. [23:31]
foswiki_irc0"Will you require Symbolic Links in the pub/ or bin/ directories? "
WHy? To where?
What is 'System/WebHome'? Remember, I know nothing about Foswiki at this point.
These are the types of things that you would 'just know' and I get that. But the instructions need to be for someone who doesn't.
[23:31]
gac410Hm Some hosted sites require SymLinks - and the site breaks unless Follow SymLinks is enabled in the config. O [23:34]
foswiki_irc0"Page to return when authentication fails:" Why either/or? Why not a page where they can register AND reset their password? [23:34]
gac410I'm not sure if enabling +FollowSymLinks in the config is valid in all cases. I suppose we could just default it as true.
It's configuring apache on how to handle an auth failure.
I guess some of this is historical going back to the TWiki origins. There are separate pages for Registration, vs. Reset. Some sites want to encourage new users to register, Some don't support user registration.
Changing subject. I just started a jessie install in a vm. What type of "install" did you choose? I checked "Web Server, SSH Server and Standard utilities. Is that what you considered a minimal system?
[23:35]
foswiki_irc0: I just edited ApacheConfigGenerator to address some of your concerns. Eliminated some of the older obsolete info, Tried to clarify Virtual Hosts as being apache "Name based virtual hosts" and is optional. Eliminated the www. alias statement [23:53]

↑back Search ←Prev date Next date→ Show only urls(Click on time to select a line by its url)