#foswiki 2016-12-01,Thu

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WhoWhatWhen
luucyo
does foswiki support 'change submissions'?
[00:19]
gac410what do you mean by change submissions? [00:19]
luucsay, a user 'suggests' an edit - then an admin / manager would need to confirm/accept the change [00:19]
gac410hm Usually with a wiki, the whole process is flipped. Users make changes and people review. I'm not sure if one of the WorkflowPlugins could implement somethign like this.
https://foswiki.org/Extensions/WorkflowPlugin
And https://foswiki.org/Extensions/ApprovalPlugin is another one.
[00:20]
luucnice, i'll take a look
do plugins cause any significant lag or performance issues?
say you run ~10 plugins
[00:22]
gac410I guess it really depends on what they do. Fundamentally, no, its an integral part of the architecture. [00:24]
luuchow long is the average out of the box install for foswiki?
hour? couple hours?
[00:24]
gac410hm That really depends upon your skill set, platform, etc. Linux Apache - on a recent distribution - Ubuntu 16.04 for ex, should be very straight forward.
extract the archive, install the dependencies, configure apache ( Foswiki:Support.ApacheConfigGenerator )
[00:25]
FoswikiBothttps://foswiki.org/Support.ApacheConfigGenerator [ ApacheConfigGenerator ] [00:26]
gac410Even faster to try, we have a pre-built Ubuntu VM with foswiki and apache already installed/configured. [00:27]
luucit'll be in a windows environment [00:28]
gac410not recommended as a server. It does work, but we don't test. [00:29]
luuchmm
would vm work?
[00:30]
gac410as I said, we have a VM read to go - vmware vmdk disk format.
ready not read
[00:30]
luucyeah, though not sure on connectivity
we'd like to tie it into our windows user database
[00:33]
gac410We definitely support that. LdapContrib can tie into Active Directory. It's definitely a more complicated setup, but we support AD for user mapping [00:34]
luucnice - even across the linux environment? [00:35]
gac410Sure. LDAP is a standard, and AD provides an LDAP connector. I'm not directly familiar ... no AD here at home.
(retired) but we definitely have sites doing this.
[00:36]
luuccool, that's the core idea / goal
we'd like to have ad with perms on groups
[00:37]
gac410I get a bit fuzzier, deeper into Ldap / AD. But AD can represent "Groups" of users, and webs/topics are granted permissions to groups.
more details here: https://foswiki.org/Extensions/LdapContrib
[00:38]
luucyep - that with the ability to direct topic modifications to admins/managers is exactly what we're looking to do
what sets foswiki apart from the rest, in your opinion? anything we should consider while developing? right now we're basically just intending for a somewhat basic wiki experience
[00:40]
gac410there are some other consultants here that have a lot more ldap experience. But can be tough to get their time.
hm. Probably the "Structured" aspects. It's not just documents, but associated metadata that can be accessed and formatted.
And queried.
[00:40]
luucis there much maintenance involved?
from an it perspective
[00:42]
gac410hm for the wiki itself, not really. We release maybe once or twice a year. Need to do general server maintenance stuff - compressing / flushing logs, etc [00:43]
luucstability is pretty good? [00:44]
gac410I'd say so. It's a CGI application on a web server, so no running processes for the wiki itself. Depends on the web server to spin off requests. [00:45]
luucpretty snappy? [00:46]
gac410So much depends on the workload and configured resources. Simple page view can be sub-second. But if a page has a %QUERY macro that searches 10,000 other pages, then it can be slow. [00:47]
luucany examples that would involve something like that? (query macro) [00:47]
gac410Need to think a bit. It's pretty heavily used on foswiki.org. For ex our download page https://foswiki.org/Download/FoswikiRelease02x01x02 has a %SEARCH that populates a list of urgent issues awaiting release.
Our Tasks web https://foswiki.org/Tasks has a recent changes search on it
our foswiki.org server is on a VM in Germany, on the internet and subject to a rather continuous flogging by the search engine bots. So performance does get inconsistent at times.
[00:49]
luuci see
what's the best time of day (and timezone) for community interaction/support?
[00:51]
gac410Probably Europe business hours. I'm in East-coast USA, Sometimes have to ask multiple times. [00:53]
luucSAME [00:53]
gac410The Ldap knowledgeable are more in Europe I'd guess. MichaelDaum (Germany) is the author of the LDAP code.
The IRC channel is logged - http://irclogs.foswiki.org/bin/irclogger_log/foswiki
[00:54]
luuci think i was using his demo
any words of caution?
[00:56]
gac410hm A Wiki is one of those things that has to fit in to the culture. Need to have champions. Foswiki is really powerful, but does have a learning curve. [00:58]
luucfor users, it, or both?
any idea or recommendations to get to a successful utilization / continuous update cycle?
[01:01]
gac410well, if the users are writing wiki apps, then they sort of become developers as well. The line can be a bit fuzzy.
The data needs to be useful to people to get good utilization. Wikis can get stale if everyone expects others to do the contributing.
[01:02]
luucwhat do you mean by wiki apps?
we're mainly wanting to use foswiki as a documentation tool for our business processes
[01:03]
gac410Ah. So on a page a user can essentially create an application by using %SEARCH macros, combined with structured data topics. [01:03]
luucthanks man, appreciate the help and input [01:07]
gac410sure glad to help. I'm back. [01:17]
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[01:17]
luuchave you ever seen any integration into an ERP system? [01:26]
gac410Not that I've heard of, but definitely not my area of expertise. [01:32]
luucis it possible foswiki would be 'overkill' for what we're needing? [01:34]
gac410Hard to say. If you don't use the structured app features, it's still a very powerful wiki. Sounds like workflow or approval plugins could handle document life cycle. [01:36]
luucyeah
seems like the right option
anywhere i could see some examples of the 'structured apps' / search functionality?
[01:37]
gac410It is also based on plain text files. There are database backends that can be used to accelerate things.
Our own Task tracker is implemented in Foswiki using structured data, and SEARCH macros.
[01:38]
luuci mean in use [01:40]
gac410I'm looking in some of our example sites. One of our biggest implementations it unfortunately offline due to gov. funding cuts in Australia.
Nothing is jumping out and a lot of the sites are not responding - we have not maintained the list in quite a while. Might be best to ask for examples during different times.
[01:43]
luucseems like a silly thing to cut :p [01:46]
gac410yeah, unfortunately R&D goes with ebb & flow of politics. TRIN was a taxonomy research information network - it was an attempt at helping taxonomists work faster [01:49]
luucwonder if it's on one of the web histories [01:49]
gac410Tracking the Mangrove Swamps fauna iirc.
(from the logs) http://wiki.trin.org.au is running MongoDBPlugin. We have 210,000 topics, the largest web is ~60,000 topics.
It used DirectedGraphPlugin to search the taxonomy information and generate Dot graphs (using the graphviz tool)
It was running an experimental version of Foswiki though.
trin.org.au is a single-core 4GB VM for Foswiki, and a single-core 8GB VM for Mongo
[01:49]
Unfortunately a lot of wiki development is behind corp. firewalls. [01:56]
luuchmm
hard to get a good idea of what that is :-\
the query / macro
is the directory / table of contents self building?
[01:58]
gac410Yes. A web is simply a directory containing .txt files with a particular format. The topic list is basically a directory list, but of course topics are ACL checked so users cannot detect presence of things they don't have rights to see. [02:02]
luuccan you hide page elements / things within a topic as well? not just the whole topic itself [02:03]
gac410The basic "unit" that ACLs control is the topic (page). With the page, you can use macros to hide stuff, but it would not be as secure as an ACL.
One way around is to %INCLUDE{}% a topic that has it's own ACL controls, and would be suppressed if the user has no access.
If you explore around Foswiki.org, and register to get a login, you can look at the "raw" topic contents to see what is going on behind the scenes. We block raw access to guests to control the search bots.
So our download page: https://foswiki.org/Download/FoswikiRelease02x01x02?raw=on only has about 6 lines of text, and is almostly completely structured data in the data form.
[02:04]
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luucsounds good
appreciate it man
have a nice night
[02:24]
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GithubBot[JQSerialPagerContrib] MichaelDaum pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v1shS
JQSerialPagerContrib/master 85561c6 MichaelDaum: Item14243: rewrite serial pager javascript code
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FoswikiBothttps://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item14243 [ Item14243: rewrite serial pager javascript code ] [09:11]
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GithubBot[JQMomentContrib] MichaelDaum pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v1Gv2
JQMomentContrib/master 1e9085c MichaelDaum: Item14244: upgrade to monent.js 2.17.0
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GithubBot[MediaElementPlugin] MichaelDaum pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v1GlG
MediaElementPlugin/master 4efc660 MichaelDaum: Item14245: upgrade to mediaelement 2.23.4
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gcap12Is anyone having issues with the TreeBroswer TreeView plugin not linking topics properly? [18:13]
FoswikiOnSlack1<gcap> @here is anyone having issues with the TreeBroswer TreeView plugin not linking topics properly? [18:18]
gac410gcap, have you looked at known issues? https://foswiki.org/Tasks/TreeBrowserPlugin
TreePlugin has issues reported around utf-8 on mac osx https://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13483
[18:23]
FoswikiOnSlack1<gcap> @gac410 yes I looked but haven't been able to find any help with the same issue [18:24]
gac410hm Looks like I did some minor work on it back in 2015, but I don't remember it at all. Drawing complete blank :( Sucks to get old.
What do you mean by "not linking topics properly"
[18:27]
FoswikiOnSlack1<gcap> Haha, I feel you
<gcap> So I have the treeBrowser plugin set up where there are folders that expand/collapse
[18:32]
gac410I just installed it ... trying to figure out what it does. [18:33]
FoswikiOnSlack1<gcap> All of the child topics folders under a parent folder automatically redirect to the topic page
<gcap> Except for one
<gcap> It's strange because it's only an issue in the LeftMenuBar
<gcap> Anywhere else the treebrowser is rendered that folder works perfectly fine but when selecting it in the left bar it doesn't redirect anywhere and just opens up the folder
[18:33]
gac410ah... okay. Could you possibly http://pastebin.com a sample of what you did.
So I could try it?
[18:34]
FoswikiOnSlack1<gcap> Yeah! One sec... [18:35]
gac410hm The css/js is not working well in my browser on linux anyway - :( [18:36]
FoswikiOnSlack1<gcap> http://pastebin.com/bB8Eqn6G
<gcap> Aw no bueno :(
<gcap> When I tried using the same %Treeview code in the Webleftbar it just fubar'd it
[18:38]
gac410Y, webleftbar is pretty sensitive in layout. Any <div> ... </div> must be carefully matched
failure to close a div might end up with the bar down at the bottom, or on the wrong side. Strangeness for sure.
[18:39]
FoswikiOnSlack1<gcap> Ohh okay I see [18:40]
<gcap> Hm I tried with the "nodiv" option. Still no luck [18:46]
gac410gcap, I cut./pasted the example in the topic into my left bar and it worked just fine.
The TREEBROWSER with the WEBLIST macro listed first under Examples.
[18:49]
FoswikiOnSlack1<gcap> Hm, do you know of any issues then if someone re-names a topic? The link is upto date though so I can't imagine that would be the issue [18:50]
gac410I have 20-30 webs with unicode names, etc. Linking is fine. Note however it is broken if you are On the WebLeftBar topic.
ie, if there are two tree browsers, one in the left bar and the same one in the page, then it gets confused.
[18:50]
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foswiki_irc1hey everyone
a quick question about extensions
when i try to go to http://foswiki.org/pub/Extensions
a 403 Forbidden response
[20:06]
gac410We don't allow browsing of the file system.
Need to go to https://foswiki.org/Extensions
[20:07]
foswiki_irc1that makes sense [20:07]
gac410You can follow links from Extensions topics to the pub/... attachments directly. [20:07]
foswiki_irc1so how does the extensions library functionality of foswiki get the listing of extensions
i have this for my extensions listing Foswiki.org=(http://foswiki.org/Extensions/,http://foswiki.org/pub/Extensions/);
but my system doesn't list any extensions
[20:08]
gac410Oh... there is a query topic used to fetch the extensions list.
What version of Foswiki?
[20:08]
FoswikiBotWhat version of Foswiki are you using GeekDrew [20:09]
gac410FoswikiBot: forget What version of Foswiki [20:09]
FoswikiBotgac410: I forgot about What version of Foswiki. [20:09]
foswiki_irc1the most recent
let me look
2.1.2
[20:09]
gac410Try changing the links in that repo list to https:// instead of http://
http:// should be working, but maybe someone turned the redirect back on ...
[20:10]
foswiki_irc1no luck
this is what i have
Foswiki.org=(https://foswiki.org/Extensions/,https://foswiki.org/pub/Extensions/);
[20:11]
gac410okay right - that is what should be there. [20:11]
foswiki_irc1and it still isn't listing any extensions
i've been searching the documentation but haven't found anything else to try
[20:11]
gac410If you put https://foswiki.org/Extensions/FastReport in your browser does it work?
What OS are you running on?
[20:11]
foswiki_irc1yes that works
redhat linux
[20:12]
gac410need to make sure that perl-liblwp-protocol-https is installed  
Somewhere along the line perl devs' split out https support in lwp separate from http support,
[20:13]
foswiki_irc1thanks i will check that [20:14]
gac410hm... another possibility if you have SELinux enforcement enabled, selinux might block the web server from creating outgoing https connections.
I don't use rhat or selinux though, so no idea off hand how/where to look.
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GithubBot[distro] vrurg pushed 1 new commit to Item13897: https://git.io/v1nYn
distro/Item13897 c888484 Vadim Belman: Item13897: A bit of improvement to stringify()
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FoswikiBothttps://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13897 [ Item13897: Implement ImproveOOModel proposal. ] [22:13]

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