#foswiki 2017-01-02,Mon

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WhoWhatWhen
***ChanServ sets mode: +o MichaelDaum [08:06]
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MichaelDaumanybody got an idea who is hosting blog.foswiki.org?
where do we have this documented?
[12:31]
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jastall I know is that it's hosted on Dreamhost [12:59]
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***ChanServ sets mode: +o gac410 [13:38]
gac410MichaelDaum: I searched all my old IRC logs ... I found only one "guess" that it was Sven with the Dreamhost account. [13:43]
jastthat would have been my guess, too [13:43]
gac410though I have to admin I always thought that MichaelDaum was the admin/owner of the blog. [13:45]
uebera||gac410: Sven is maintaining this via Dreamhost, yes [13:47]
gac410I guess that;s another one we need to move. [13:47]
uebera||Yes, already planned. Sven did not manage to provide us with a complete dump of that site until now. A reminder might help... ;) [13:48]
gac410I'll send him an email ... hopefully not too late to get a dump
I sent an email to SvenDowideit to all the addresses I have for him .. Hopefully one or more will make it through his spam filters.
One bounce ... out of 3.
Probably won't hear until tomorrow MichaelDaum - it's 11:54 in Brisbane.
[13:49]
***ChanServ sets mode: +o Lynnwood [14:01]
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MichaelDaumhey guys [14:16]
gac410Hi MichaelDaum Happy New Year! [14:16]
MichaelDaumHappy New Year to you too? :) ... When Sven gets the blog up and running again, an xml dump can be extracted using wordpress.
I did so once 2016-06-06, including all media.
and used it as a test for the wordpress importer of BlogPlugin ...
[14:17]
gac410btw I held off on a 2.1.3 B1 announcement letter. Wasn't sure how much detail to put in the summary on certain items
Foswiki:Download.FoswikiRelease02x01x03-Beta1 has some description
[14:20]
FoswikiBothttps://foswiki.org/Download.FoswikiRelease02x01x03-Beta1 [ FoswikiRelease02x01x03-Beta1 ] [14:21]
MichaelDaumy I've seen it. tweeted it. [14:22]
gac410Seems to be pretty stable on Foswiki.org so far. And with the cache tweaks enabled, we're running about 30:1 in the deps table. which is quite a bit better than the 80:1 before (IIRC) [14:23]
Ahh I meant to ask you about restructuring of JQueryPlugin. There are a LOT of relocated files. Wondering if upgrade instructions should suggest removing pub/JQueryPlugin
er... pub/System/JQueryPlugin ;)
uebera||: my "impression" is that f.o seems faster, but not sure if its just a reduced bot load, or if its actually running a bit better. I have not seen any of the apache restarts or oom messages in quite a while.
[14:28]
***gac410 sets mode: +o jast [14:33]
gac410In addition to the cache changes, Michael fixed a few more of the high cpu issues in 2.1.3 [14:34]
uebera||Regarding apache2--it's true that the newer versions work much better (though I couldn't pinpoint a particular reason from the changelogs; must be a side effect of internal code streamlining) [14:36]
gac410Is it a newer apache2? or the new foswiki? or a bit of both? [14:36]
MichaelDaumgac410, yea maybe thats a good idea ... if people are interested in keeping things clean [14:38]
gac410I did not remove the files on f.o, wanted to be closer to what a typical unzip&go upgrade would be like.
But I can go back later and rerun the foswiki-upgrade-check script with the remove option to clean things up.
I know colas deprecated it, but I really like how it works
I'd love to build that process into a configure wizard - so you can upgrade a release with a click or two. I use another product that does that - LimeSurvey - ComfortUpdate - though they just started charging for the convenience :(
[14:38]
Has anyone tested bootstrap with the 2.1.3 beta? **especially** bsd / osx and/or nginx users. Also anyone behind a web proxy. [14:48]
MichaelDaum: I came up with hopefully an alternate nginx config that supports utf8 webnames. Didn't want to make it public until an nginx-head reviewed it ;)
https://github.com/Jlevens/FoswikiVagrant/files/667669/nginx-foswiki-short.txt
[15:02]
Colasgac410, I deprecated it, because Foswiki upgrade process is now much better. So foswiki-upgrade-check could make often things worse than just upgrading the "normal" way now. [15:04]
gac410Hi Colas, yeah I got that. However on Foswiki.org, we have some locally modified files shipped in the upgrade package - I'd often forget about them ;)
And also it can remove stale files removed from the distribution. And that's a big plus too - esp. when things like JQueryPlugin gets restructured.
[15:05]
MichaelDaumgac410, location /bin {...} should work too instead of location ~ ^/bin/ {...} [15:07]
gac410Thanks MichaelDaum The regexes are anchored by default?
Colas, the ones we update ... robots.txt, WikiGuest (we change cache settings) and PatternSkinThemeFatWillyNavigation.txt
gac410 wonders. Maybe we should add at least robots.txt to our "remove" list for the upgrade package. WikiGuest too. hm
And we probably ought to have a custom navigation topic rather than customize the FatWilly one.
Either that or add the enable cache flag to our shipped WikiGuest topic.
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Actually we do remove WikiGuest and robots.txt. The horizontal navigation topic is really our own issue. [15:28]
Colas"we have some locally modified files shipped in the upgrade package " I guess we should have some conventions for this. For instance have a local_patches dir, and in the upgrade instruction, just a line "re-apply your local patches in local_patches/" :-) [15:28]
gac410Well that works for sites that use some modicum of control on their site. Me... I just look for conflicts, and try to figure out what the heck I was thinking when I modified a file :D [15:30]
ColasOf course the ideal should be an upgrade a la wordpress: one click in the configure WebUI... [15:33]
gac410yes indeed. LimeSurvey has a very nice "Comfort Upgrade" which - does a backup, Compares and reports local modifications, applies the changes, and runs any db schema updates needed. Does take a few clicks though.
Ideally we'd ship a md5 for every file, to make it easier to discover local modifications. Extensions are more difficult though as we do occasionally interim releases so files are changed ... but not modified.
Although the extension manifests embedded in the _installer file does now have md5sum for the installed files. Really our whole bundling process needs some re-thinking as we make OS distribution packaging really difficult.
[15:34]
ColasAlso, foswiki-upgrade-check was not working very well if you upgraded your plugins often via configure [15:42]
gac410yes ... It does report all the extensions as conflicts. Though we don't release default extensions very often. The only one this time was SlideShowPlugin [15:43]
ColasFoswiki is quite close now to being upgradable seamlessly. I guess the WebPreferences topics and the whole "users in Main" are the last hard point
Ideally the WebPreferences topics should not exists in the webs anymore, and should be created on demand, and hold only local changes
[15:44]
gac410I suppose what would be helpful at minimum is a report of anything different from the distribution . Just to find what might have been edited. Especially important on a site with multiple admins like f.o
Hm. That would require some re-thinking of Store, as a web by definition is a "directory containing a WebPreferences.txt" file.
That's how store finds the webs.
For my local test sites, I have renamed Main and Sandbox ... so I never have conflicts there ;)
And track them in their own "LocalDataContrib" so I can always start fresh and then pseudo-install my local environment. But that's not on a prod system.
Hm.. a cute tool might be a utility to "replay" the Configuration log into tools/configure -set {key}='value' statements. for an easier reconfiguration
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colas_interesting idea! [16:07]
gac410Just have to be careful not to change all your passwords to 'redacted' :D [16:07]
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FoswikiOnSlack1<casey> what is the current state of foswiki and twiki? [17:42]
gac410Current state? Foswiki is under active development. We just built Foswiki 2.1.3 Beta 1. It's evolved a fair amount from twiki.
Full unicode support.
we have plans for a Foswiki 2.2. and there is a Foswiki 3.0 with *major* internal redesign underway.
I can't really comment on twiki
[17:43]
FoswikiOnSlack1<nuddlegg> @casey we aren't really monitoring twiki's development anymore. you may tell us more about twiki than we can :slightly_smiling_face:
<casey> i haven't used either in years
<casey> so know nothing
[17:45]
gac410Foswiki has embraced modern perl, and updated to accommodate many cpan package changes. We test on perl up through 5.24 . 5.8.8 still works, but we STRONGLY recommend being up on 5.18 or higher. [17:47]
FoswikiOnSlack1<nuddlegg> Well it may be fair enough to touch base with both communities to get a feeling about what makes the difference from that perspective.
<nuddlegg> we could dive into enumerating features, companies, sites, what ever. but maybe that's not what you are looking for as a decision maker?
[17:47]
gac410topics on old twiki are still mostly compatible with foswiki - though we stopped tracking their features back several years ago, [17:49]
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gac410 sets mode: +o vrurg [20:16]
gac410Happy New Year vrurg [20:16]
vrurgHappy New Year! :)
How did you meet it? Was it fun?
[20:16]
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randohttps://foswiki.org/System/BeginnersStartHere - is commenting on wiki pages really known as "blogging"
and the irc://url would likely be more helpful if it were also a url to the freenode webchat...
I can't make those edits, even though WikiPhilosophy
[23:19]

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