#foswiki 2017-01-09,Mon

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WhoWhatWhen
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MichaelDaumI've created a backup of blog.foswiki.org using Foswiki & BlogPlugin: https://demo.michaeldaumconsulting.com/bin/view/FoswikiBlog/WebHome [10:31]
this is based in parts on an old wordpress xml export which covered content up to June 2015. The rest has been fetched from https://web.archive.org/web/20161206203300/http://blog.foswiki.org/ [10:40]
uebera||MichaelDaum: Great! We can move this to the new server. Could you join #foswiki-admin? [10:51]
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MichaelDaumreminder: release meeting in 20 minutes at #foswiki-release [12:41]
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gac410hi all .. Release meeting in 4 miinutes! Happy New Year [12:56]
cdotbollocks.... conflicting meetings [12:57]
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***ChanServ sets mode: +o Lynnwood [13:14]
CHYCHi, I've generated an Apache configuration using ApacheConfigGenerator, and I get errors trying to create/edit pages: "The Web/Topic path: 'edit/Main' has missing components or contains invalid characters". The comments on the generator page imply I should see a "FilesMatch attach/edit..." but I cannot find it. Am I missing something obvious?
https://foswiki.org/Support/ApacheConfigGenerator?foswikiversion=2.0&apacheversion=2.4&vhost=&port=&timeout=&dir=%2Fvar%2Fwww%2Ffoswiki&pathurl=%2Ffoswiki&shorterurls=enabled&engine=mod_perl&fastcgimodule=fcgid&fcgidreqlen=&apver=2&confighost=&configip=&configuser=&reqandor=and&sslcert=%2Fetc%2Fssl%2Fapache2%2Fyourservercert.pem&sslchain=%2Fetc%2Fssl%2Fapache2%2Fsub.class1.server.ca.pem&sslkey=%2Fetc%2Fssl%2
Fapache2%2Fyourservercertkey.pem&loginmanager=Template&htpath=&errordocument=UserRegistration&errorcustom=&disablephp=on#HighLight
Erm, let me strip that down into one line...
[13:18]
gac410Please use pastebin
http://pastebin.org ... You can put your whole config there. Just set a short expiration so it goes away
[13:19]
CHYCgac410: http://pastebin.com/PDBrJtHs is the generator url, http://pastebin.com/Sf4KENRe is the generated config [13:20]
FoswikiBot[ # Autogenerated httpd.conf file for Foswiki. # Generated at https://foswiki.org - Pastebin.com ] [13:20]
jastwhich URL does your browser show in the address bar when you get the error? [13:22]
CHYChttps://$HOST/foswiki/edit/Main/WebHome?t=1483967635 [13:23]
jasthuh. according to your config it should be .../foswiki/bin/edit/... [13:23]
CHYCI must have borked something somewhere. [13:23]
jasthave a look at /foswiki/bin/configure, or look in lib/LocalSite.cfg on your server in the foswiki install dir
there are script url paths in there
one of them may be missing the /bin. if you paste your config file (minus sensitive data), I can have a look for you if you like
[13:24]
CHYCjast: Many thanks for the suggestion. I will do that. [13:24]
gac410ping uebera|| ... are you around? [13:25]
zak256Hello. I am having trouble with expansion again. I have a UserCommentsTemplate with an %IF, therefore I need a STARTSECTION{expandvariables}, because the IF should be expanded. But within the IF in the then-clause I want a macro to be written in the resulting page. Unfortunately the macro is always expanded :-(
I tried $percentMyMacro$percent, but that doesn't work, it gets expanded.
[13:37]
jastyeah, this is a little tricky [13:38]
gac410That's a limitation. we can't do "per-macro" expansion. There is a feature proposal to solve this for Release 2.2 [13:38]
zak256I tried $dollarpercentMyMacro$dollarpercent, but then I get $percentMyMacro$percent
So it's definitively not possible? :-(
[13:38]
jasthmm,
can't think of a way right now
[13:39]
zak256That's too bad, that would have been the last piece for what I am working right now.
But thanks anyway, now I know I need to think of something else.
[13:39]
gac410The Feature proposal for Foswiki 2.2 is Foswiki:Development/SupportAllMacrosInTemplateTopics [13:44]
FoswikiBothttps://foswiki.org/Development/SupportAllMacrosInTemplateTopics [ SupportAllMacrosInTemplateTopics ] [13:44]
zak256This proposal is all about expanding macros, but does it include the possibility to explicitly prevent expansion? But I did not read everything there yet of course... [13:47]
gac410Right. You would eliminate the expandvariables section, and just selectively expand what you want. [13:48]
zak256So the default would be to not expand? [13:49]
gac410yes. [13:49]
zak256okay
So I guess I'll wait for version 2.2 :-)
[13:49]
gac410These changes are not yet merged into 2.2 ... still needed a bit more work.
Right now we are looking at a mid-year 2.2 but it's slipped a number of times already
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MichaelDaum: I guess I resemble this one: http://xkcd.com/1782/ :D [15:32]
zak256I think XMPP is a great replacement for IRC ;-) [15:34]
MichaelDaumgac410, haha :D
slack is one awesome done piece of software in the online collaboration market. so I find it important to know all about it.
same for other tools of that kind
It doesn't help to ignore it. Nor any other work of people with collaboration in mind while doing software solutions.
it really does not matter whether foswiki as a project is putting more weight on slack or not.
if it fits or does nit fit well, we will see over time
irc did prove being essential for open source devs.
[15:36]
gac410gac410 thinks he's about ready to switch over to google hangouts for collaboration :D [15:40]
MichaelDaumyea. give it a spin. try them all. don't stop at irc. [15:40]
gac410(google just quietly announced shutdown of their hangouts API as of April ) [15:41]
MichaelDaumthe next framework is just around the corner ;)
always
[15:41]
zak256AFAIK Hangouts is just XMPP with proprietary additions by Google. [15:42]
MichaelDaumxmpp is about to die [15:43]
zak256why so? [15:43]
MichaelDaumfacebook, google, they all abandoned it.
and then it is too complicated.
[15:43]
zak256And why did they do it? Because they want to have something they can lock their users in. [15:44]
MichaelDaumwell there are new technical inventions til the invention of xmpp, especial in browsers. [15:44]
zak256Yes, but they could just extend XMPP like it is supposed to be. But they didn't. They want to do invent their own closed system. [15:45]
MichaelDaumfrom what I see, xmpp is over-designed: too many specs implemented to irregularly. [15:45]
zak256A lot happened with XMPP in the last year.
Yes that's true, but it is being worked at.
[15:45]
MichaelDaumyea I hear you [15:46]
zak256I'd rather have a slowly progressing open system than a proprietary closed system where I am dependend on what the company behind it allows or denies. [15:46]
gac410MichaelDaum: uebera|| ... Kicked off a blog discussion on the admin channel. What's our next steps? [15:47]
zak256If anybody is interested: https://gultsch.de/xmpp_2016.html [15:49]
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Nemo_bisFYI, Ward Cunningham (the inventor of the wiki) soon speaking at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQgx11Q5p9w [17:37]
gac410Thanks for the point-out! [17:38]
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foswiki_irc2Hello, I'm a newbie with Foswiki. I use Foswiki 2.1.2 with the TagMePlugin. It worked fine until I created a tag which contains a german umlaut (non-ASCII character). But that doesn't work. Foswiki can't find topics with that special tag. And I cannot delete or rename that tag. What can I do? [18:55]
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gac410Looks like TagMePlugin has issues with unicode. Unfortunately we don't have an active maintainer for that extension. [19:11]
You might have to look at and either edit or remove working/work_areas/TagMePlugin/_tags_web.topic.... file
not really sure though - just looking at the code - I've not used that extension
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foswiki_irc2: I ran a couple of tests and tried some simple changes. Looks like it will need a bit more work than what I've managed to find so far. [19:56]
foswiki_irc2OK. Thank you for your help. [19:59]
gac410foswiki_irc2: I have a patch that seems to be working for unicode tags and web/topic names too.
foswiki_irc2: Patch is in Item13916
[20:08]
FoswikiBothttps://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13916 [ Item13916: TagMePlugin need switch for utf8 when it used Foswiki::Func::saveFile|readFile. ] [20:11]
gac410There are still a number of issues with this plugin - see open tasks at Foswiki:Tasks/TagMePlugin [20:12]
FoswikiBothttps://foswiki.org/Tasks/TagMePlugin [ TagMePlugin ] [20:12]
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warbleI'm rummaging in the devdocs, but I can't find the "How and when releases are made" documents... [22:32]
gac410Ah. When - is somewhat "on demand" If enough features or fixes are ready to release we start to spin up a new release.
We really wanted the 2.2 release to be targeted for June/july last year, but we have a lot of features that are "committed" but not yet ready to merge, so we delayed.
the 2.1.3 patch release was also originally planned for Sept, but various important fixes and lack of dev. time has gradually stretched it out.
As to "How" ... see Foswiki:Development.BuildingARelease
[22:33]
FoswikiBothttps://foswiki.org/Development.BuildingARelease [ BuildingARelease ] [22:35]
gac410That's pretty much what I follow when building a release.
Does that help warble?
As the developers are all volunteers, and "real life" happens, schedules tend to be soft.
[22:35]
warbleso... "the whole build process is ruined" seems like a fair summing up? [22:43]
gac410huh? ruined? No. It's an open source project and moves on its own schedule. [22:43]
warblefrom what i'm seeing 'round the code/wiki it looks like there was a move to github and the tools were left behind
Nightly build process (using master) - Not currently operational... Nightly build process (from trunk) - Not currently operational ...
"ruined"
that's what i'm referring to.
[22:43]
gac410Ah... okay. Some of that is out of date. We do have a nightly build and test running [22:44]
warbleoh. [22:45]
gac410I don't think anyone bothers with the built images, as simply running from a git checkout is very simple.
Unit tests run on the Release02x01 and master branches. if the tests *fail* then we get an email to the developers list foswiki-svn@lists.sourceforge.net
[22:45]
warbleI'm looking at GitAndPseudoInstall now
I guess the nightlies made more sense with svn than with github's fancy "give me master.tar" options
[22:45]
gac410yikes We don't use submodules / super modules any more. So that's out of date to :(
And all the git-svn stuff has been stripped out from pseudo-install too I hope.
Let me see if I can find the right topic. We need to flag those as obsolete.
[22:48]
warblehmm [22:50]
gac410See Foswiki:Development.DevelopersBible. and specifically Foswiki:Development/GitBasedInstall [22:50]
FoswikiBothttps://foswiki.org/Development.DevelopersBible. [ DevelopersBible ] https://foswiki.org/Development/GitBasedInstall [ GitBasedInstall ] [22:50]
gac410Those are the current docs. [22:50]
warbledoes that mean that core/tools/develop/analise.pl is also on the chopping board? [22:50]
gac410Definitely no longer used. Github does keep track of top contributors, so we never bothered reactivating that and the hall of fame.
What the project does NOT have is a good documentalist, so devs create topics - and they get forgotten about and bitrot to oblivion. Esp. when the real life intrudes and the dev leaves.
We know it makes it that much harder for new folks. But it's hard to prioritize ad-hoc doc cleanup over bug fixing etc
[22:52]
warblemaybe some kind of search that shows the oldest pages? [22:59]
gac410It all comes down to simple matter of time and priorities. Our "contributed" support docs - install guides etc, are also really in need of scrubbing / house cleaning.
Our Release Meeting this morning discussed some of how to look to encourage people to help out the project. Everything from translators, people to "adopt" many of the old plugins whose developers have "moved on", etc.
Our latest wrinkle is our Blog (blog.foswiki.org) was hosted by someone who left the project, it crashed, so we are scrambling to convert it to foswiki.org. That's what has held up announcement of 2.1.3-Beta1
[23:00]
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warblei read some pages about that migration stuff
it sounded like frowntown.
[23:24]
gac410migration? You mean from Foswiki 1.x to 2.x ? [23:24]
warbleNo, from the blog to foswiki [23:27]
gac410Where did you read that? [23:28]
warbleMaybe it as just on the IRC backlog and not a wiki page :S [23:28]
gac410Ah... okay. Yeah the blog migration is going to be fun. We didn't really even have a full backup - but MichaelDaum was able to recreate it mostly from various sources
I think we decided to move forward with a separate foswiki instance, and install a bunch of non-std. plugins to provide good blog functionality.
"eat our own dogfood" decision. We should be blogging on foswiki, not on wordpress ;)
[23:29]
warbleThat one.
Surely it could be scraped back togher from a cached version of the rss feed, right?
[23:45]
gac410Yes. It was recovered from the web.archive.org [23:46]
warblehave fun. [23:51]

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