#foswiki 2017-02-21,Tue

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WhoWhatWhen
gac410HI Lynnwood yeah the move to 4.x changes some of the APIs
MichaelDaum is working on a new pluggable nat editor.... not sure how that is going or if it's going to be ready for 2.2 or beyond
Work is happening in the Item14288 branch
[00:12]
FoswikiBothttps://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item14288 [ Item14288: rewrite to support pluggable edit engines ] [00:14]
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Lynnwoodgac410 - just came back
I'm looking at a guide for changes from 3.x to 4.x and don't see a whole lot.
pluggable nat editor would be lovely
tbh, i would just as soon do installation with wysiwyg disabled and never tell them about it. Just provide NatEdit.
but a client has specifically asked me about TinyMCE 4 so i feel obligated to at least look at it.
I've been spending a couple of days with my nose in php/mysql for a change. Can't say it's refreshing but it's different.
I was setting up a software package for my weather station and integrate it with local database. Kind of fun project.
[00:54]
gac410I did try to upgrade to the new tmce at one point, but javascript isn't my forte, and I ran into issues and reverted it.
cool project.
[01:01]
Lynnwoodi actually learned some stuff about php and mysql. Neither seem quite so alien to me anymore.
mysql less so...
[01:06]
gac410FoswikiBot: seen JulianLevens [01:07]
FoswikiBotgac410: JulianLevens was last seen in #foswiki 14 days 13 hours ago joining the channel. [01:07]
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***ChanServ sets mode: +o MichaelDaum [07:05]
ChanServ sets mode: +o cdot [07:12]
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fragfuttermy foswiki setup is running. But if i want to access configure it tells me, that it is in bootstrap mode. Any hints? [09:26]
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MichaelDaumcdot, I constantly run into a not-so-nice situation. I edit a document located on a foswiki webdav drive for a long time. But then when hitting "save" an error message pops up that the edit lock expired. a second "save" will do the thing as requested.
what can we do to prevent this error first error message wrt the edit lock?
[09:41]
cdotMichaelDaum: I assume there's a timeout on the edit lock? Should be possible to just extend it?
come to that, isn't it just the FW "edit within"?
[09:42]
MichaelDaumwhy is it so important to have a timeout at all [09:43]
cdotpretty sure I would have done the laziest thing I could think of....
the timeout is because of history, isn't it?
[09:43]
MichaelDaumor put the other way, when there is no conflict, just save the thing even though the lock timed out [09:44]
cdothow do you detect a conflict?
I suspect this is probably handled somewhere in FilesysVirtualContrib
I don't *think* webdav defines any sort of timeout like this. At least I don't remember one.
[09:44]
MichaelDaumthe lock should be there to warn somebody else to edit the same thing.
not for the same person to notify him about long edits
[09:45]
fragfuttermy "stuck in bootstrap" problem "perl -CAS tools/configure -check" works. -save also works and creates a new LocalSite.cfg. Webinterface still is in bootstrap if i visit bin/configure [09:47]
jastwhat exactly are you at bin/configure? as I recall the bootstrap warning normally only shows up outside of bin/configure
*are you getting
[09:49]
fragfutterhttps://www.example.com/bin/configure
shows: Warning Foswiki is running in 'bootstrap' mode, which means that there is no existing configuration (LocalSite.cfg is missing or is unreadable)....
https://www.exmplae.com/wiki/bin/configure
visiting https://www.example.com/wiki/ works and shows the existing pages
[09:50]
jastis that the only thing you get when visiting bin/configure? [09:52]
fragfutterit's renderered in a complete template. A configure search box, the warning, input box for username password [09:53]
cdotMichaelDaum: when a tool edits a webdav resource, it takes a "lock" on that resource. What you are seeing is that lock timing out. The duration of the lock is specified by the client. [09:56]
jastI don't think there's supposed to be a login box in bootstrap mode... [09:58]
cdotMichaelDaum: if the client doesn't specify a duration for the lock, it is taken as "infinity" (WebDAV spec section 10.2)
I *think* a client is expected to refresh timed out locks; http://www.webdav.org/specs/rfc4918.html#write-lock
[10:01]
fragfutterah well. sh** happens. time to upgrade to 2.1.3, will do a clean installation and import the data [10:05]
cdot7.7: "Clients may submit Timeout headers of arbitrary value with their lock refresh requests. Servers, as always, may ignore Timeout headers submitted by the client," - so we could ignore the timeout in the header, though I am uncertain how the locks get reaped in this case. [10:05]
***cdot has left [10:14]
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ChanServ sets mode: +o cdot [12:20]
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ChanServ sets mode: +o gac410 [13:18]
gac410fragfutter: That configure failing to render can happen if for some reason javascript is not working
The configure tool puts up just an empty panel with the login box, completely unstyled. Then the javascript takes over and actually generates the menus and tabs using json
So if the javascript doesn't execute (ie a blocker, or other issue) or possibly the json requests fail, then you get the unstylized screen with the login
[13:22]
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cdot ... I wonder, I've seen others get stuck on the first configure screen if javascript is blocked or pub path is wrong. I wonder if it would make sense to add to the configure.tmp
<span class="splash">Loading ...</span><p>If this screen is "stuck", javascript may be blocked, or failing to load.  Check that pub files are reachable and that the path is correct....
[13:57]
cdotWhat irritates me is (1) clone new repo (2) run configure, save (3) re-run configure. [13:59]
gac410I don't understand [13:59]
cdotI always end up hacking the LocalSite.cfg to point to my pre-existing htpasswd. [13:59]
gac410Ah.... I have a shell script that uses tools/configure to set my "standard" configuration, [14:00]
cdotcos if you follow the steps I gave above, you can't log in. [14:00]
gac410I also put my .htpasswd, data/Usersweb pub/... and other local confi into a "LocalDataContrib" in it's own little private repo.
So after any clean or reinstall, I also pseudo-install LocalDataContrib && sh initconfig and Bob's your uncle.
[14:01]
jastisn't TemplateLogin the default in a clean install? [14:02]
cdotjast: yes [14:02]
jastI think during bootstrap mode you get the magic admin flag in your session, so after your first configure save you should be able to register and then have an admin account
I haven't done this in forever, though... the wiki setups I was involved in used the internal admin account and LDAP for everything else
[14:02]
gac410Right. After configure your "Admin" login should "stick" until you register your users. [14:03]
cdotah, probably. I may just be making life difficult for myself.
cdot really doesn't want - or need - to register new users. Just want to re-use the htpasswd I already have. Just ignore me, it's my problem.
[14:03]
jastjust reusing htpasswd wouldn't actually solve your problem because no mapping would be giving you any admin rights [14:04]
cdotdon't need - or want - admin rights [14:05]
gac410My "initconfig" also does tools/configure -set {Password} and a bunch of other -set so I have an Admin user as well as authorized config users. [14:05]
jastor any other rights... which is fine if it's a wiki in the traditional sense where everyone can edit everything [14:05]
cdotjust want a test user, *without* writing any new files to the cloned repo. [14:05]
gac410tools/configure -save -set {Htpasswd}{FileName} = 'path to saved file' [14:06]
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jomoIf I remember correctly there was one task-topic where we collecting ALL "Unescaped left brace in regex" errors, but i'm unable to find it... should I open a new task? [14:27]
gac410jomo, probably best to open a task against the extension, especially if it hasn't been worked on in a while. [14:41]
jomoit a core [14:42]
gac410Core??? Really? [14:42]
jomo[Tue Feb 21 15:16:35 2017] jsonrpc: Unescaped left brace in regex is deprecated here (and will be fatal in Perl 5.30), passed through in regex; marked by <-- HERE in m/^(%META:([^{]+){ <-- HERE (.*)}%\n)/ at /me/fw/sites/dist/Foswiki-2.1.3/lib/Foswiki/Serialise/Embedded.pm line 112.
[Tue Feb 21 15:17:23 2017] view: Unescaped left brace in regex is deprecated here (and will be fatal in Perl 5.30), passed through in regex; marked by <-- HERE in m/(\%)(SEARCH){ <-- HERE / at /me/fw/sites/dist/Foswiki-2.1.3/lib/Foswiki/Render.pm line 673.
just downloaded a fresh tarbal and testing againist 5.25.10
[14:42]
gac410That is really strange. They must have tightened the parser, as the unescaped left brace was deprecated in 5.22 IIRC [14:44]
jomomaybe it is just a bug in 5.25.10... ;) [14:45]
gac410Render.pm line 673 doesn't even have a left brace.
Embedded.pm does have one though. Best to open a task. Core bugs really need a task so it can be tracked/closed when released.
[14:46]
jomook [14:48]
done Tasks.Item14324 [14:57]
FoswikiBothttps://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item14324 [ Item14324: Unescaped left brace - Perl 5.25.10 in 2.1.3 tarbal ] [14:57]
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cdotI just cloned distro, pseudo-installed developer, ran configure and created a topic. I don't see an editor. Anyone any suggestions?
NatEdit is installed and linked. The editor just doesn't appear.
wierd; it just came back. n.m.
[15:38]
jastI'm guessing a browser cache issue [15:45]
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gac410cdot: re Item14323 I think MichaelDaum is also working on this in Item14288 [16:29]
FoswikiBothttps://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item14323 [ Item14323: Update to latest TinyMCE version ] https://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item14288 [ Item14288: rewrite to support pluggable edit engines ] [16:29]
gac410Though the latter is still experimental [16:30]
MichaelDaumyes [16:30]
cdotnah, that's a different problem. [16:30]
MichaelDaumI am loading tinymce4 from a cdn atm though
when NATEDIT_ENGINE is set to tinymce4
[16:30]
cdotMichaelDaum: how far are you from something working? [16:31]
MichaelDaumI am working with it every day using the codemirror edit engine [16:31]
cdotare you using raw TMCE? Or do you have the fowiki-bits attached too? [16:31]
MichaelDaumcodemirror [16:31]
FoswikiBotcodemirror is nice: you get the normal raw feeling - but with syntax highlighting of html, js and tml as you type [16:31]
cdotfoswiki, foswikibuttons, foswikiimage? [16:32]
gac410See... Foswikibot knows ;) [16:32]
MichaelDaumI've implemented a TML parser for codemirror
all editor engines get the same toolbar
which hooks into the 3rd party editor api from there
[16:32]
cdotnot really an answer. I ant to know if it intergrates with WysiwygPlugin as we might expect?
or are you storing HTML?
[16:33]
MichaelDaumthis kind kind of integration of tinymce does _not_ use any of the earlier tinymce custom foswiki plugins
nor its initializer
[16:33]
gac410How do you convert from html to tml [16:34]
MichaelDaumwysiwygplugin has got the rest handlers for it [16:34]
cdotso how do you attach the special control classes? [16:34]
MichaelDaumsuch as? [16:34]
cdotWYSIWYG_*
the classes that are used to control things like whitespace
[16:34]
MichaelDaumI don't [16:35]
cdotso that TML -> HTML -> TML actually works [16:35]
MichaelDaumI let tinymce produce its code and send it to wysiwyg [16:35]
cdotok, so what you have is effectively TMCE4 without roundtrip. OK. Any unit tests? [16:36]
MichaelDaumare there any currently? [16:36]
gac410But getting it to preserve TML whitespace is a real bear. [16:36]
cdotthat wasn't my question ;-) [16:36]
MichaelDaumokay then let me answer like this: I've got as many as there were before [16:37]
cdothumph [16:37]
MichaelDaumI havent used tinymce4 a lot yet
I am not there to say it works
their api is still hard to understand
[16:37]
gac410WysiwygPlugin TranslatorTests and ExtendedTranslatorTests do indeed test the roundtrip all be it by manually inserted HTML rathern than driving TinyMCE [16:37]
cdotok, so this is good, could save me a lot of time. I have the TMCE3 plugins converted for TMCE4, but I haven't looked at the init at all
gac410: they don't test TinyMCEPlugin, which is what this is
[16:38]
MichaelDaumit _seems_ to be well documented ... but when looking for a specific thing, you dont find it. such as how do I insert a table using js [16:38]
cdotTMCE doc is *horrible*
it used to be significantly better
[16:38]
gac410Right. It's painful as you know. But the TinyMCE aspect is to "view HTML" in the TMCE editor, and then cut/paste into the HTML field in the WysiwygPlugin tests :( [16:39]
MichaelDaumthe idea behind this experimental is: have one and the same toolbar (the one that we currently have for raw edit) but different editor implementations for the textarea [16:39]
cdotbut anyway, I think I have the plugins going. The only thing I'm unsure of is the "HTML cleanup" phase pre-save. Not sure how to trigger that.
so we have been working in parallel; we have each addressed a bit the other hasn't looked at :-)
[16:39]
MichaelDaumwell, my current code is checked in for quite a time now :>/ [16:40]
cdotfine, I'll take a look. I wasn't aware of the full depth of what you have been doing.
should hopefully save me a lot of effort :-)
[16:41]
MichaelDaumI am still in research mode wrt different editor engines: codemirror is the one working best atm (in addition to good old raw mode). I wasnt expecting tinymce4 to be so hard to grok.
I want to check out prosemirror as well as ckedit
[16:42]
cdotmost of the TMCE 3 doc is still valid, though it can be hard to pick through to understand the bits that have changed. [16:43]
MichaelDaumoverall goal is to give users an experience of an editor that with a feature set slimmed down to the most necessary to get the wiki job done.
simple and elegant
[16:43]
cdotfine [16:43]
gac410Pulling from a CDN is great ... except for the few sites that block external access. [16:43]
cdotgac410: they can host their own CDN, then [16:44]
jastas long as there's a way to override it [16:44]
MichaelDaumgac410, I just was lazy and didn't download all of the code [16:44]
gac410y. It is indeed a feature I've wanted. Especially when my hosted site was on DSL link with very restricted upload speed. A CDN would be a big boost. [16:44]
MichaelDaumI wonder whether I should make editor engines part of natedit. instead of having to install a codemirror/ckedit/tinymce4 plugin [16:45]
gac410If you can get away with CDN, maybe make the extensions optional for purpose of a local mirror? [16:45]
MichaelDaumwe have to rethink CDNing for all: js, css and fonts [16:46]
gac410y [16:47]
MichaelDaumI don't want to use CDNs unless we have a solution to disable/enable CDNs in configure ... [16:47]
gac410Y, makes good sense. And we need to make sure bootstrap can fully run without the CDN somehow, before saving the config. [16:48]
MichaelDaumanother thing I didnt sort out yet is preference settings: NOWYSIWYG vs NATEDIT_ENGINE
they are in conflict right now
[16:48]
cdotpreferences can always be ignored. Do what works, I say. [16:49]
gac410NOWYSIWYG is so widely used, we can't lose that one. Too many topics can get corrupted in anything but raw. [16:49]
MichaelDaumy
for the new code to work I have to switch on NOWYSIWYG.
otherwise two editors are initializing things, the old TinyMCEPlugin as well as the new NatEdit shell loading in TinyMCE4 from CDN
[16:49]
gac410Rather than setting NOWYSIWYG, how about setting DISABLEDPLUGINS preference
That way you'd still have NOWYSIWYG to use
[16:53]
cdotcan't you just uninstall TinyMCEPlugin? [16:56]

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