#foswiki 2017-03-16,Thu

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WhoWhatWhen
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GuilainCgac410, if you're around, you tell in : "SvenDowideit has some initial docker containers as examples, but they install the web server directly as well. (https://github.com/SvenDowideit/dockerfiles/tree/master/foswiki) " in foswiki.org/Development/AddDockerContainerForDistributionMethod ; precisely why is "initial" is it according to your objective ? or are they not enough mature and works badly ? [19:09]
gac410Hi GuilainC I've not tried them. I had looked through them a bit, and iirc at the time thought that they were missing some stuff. Lots of missing cpan deps for eg.
Probably I still don't understand docker well enough.
[19:14]
GuilainCok thanks gac410 [19:16]
gac410I left of trying to figure out how it should be structured to allow separation of Foswiki and the user's data, for easier upgrades, etc. Got somewhat lost [19:16]
GuilainCin my new company they used docker intensively
hum, understand you want to used it as an package
for easy installation & and testing purpose
my usage is more "simple", or usual, just install easily an foswiki, and then it will continue its life by itself
[19:17]
gac410I'm assuming that some would use it for production? And how to structure it to permit easy install in that env. left me somewhat confused.
For ex, So I upgrade to a new release, how does all the old data get imported into the new upgraded docker.
[19:18]
GuilainCin my usage, the docker will be keep
and the upgrade is perform inside the docker
[19:19]
gac410ah... okay [19:20]
GuilainCis like a semi-VM that have a normal life
that's why in think you want to make something complex
like a package management
don't know if docker is "useful" for that
after, in my feeling of docker
you should perhaps just separate foswiki and data
only the things complicated
is the web system
and main system
[19:20]
gac410docker does have the ability to separate out the data. Foswiki makes it pretty complex for sure, and unfortunately [19:22]
GuilainCwhich are modified in a standard installation and usage [19:22]
gac410y. It's the System data/pub directories that are the worst issue. But mostly a foswiki can be configured now to *never* change System except for extension installation. [19:23]
GuilainCah ? and for example interwiki link is not any more in the system ? [19:24]
gac410No, but you can configure the plugin to read InterWikis from Main. [19:24]
GuilainC(perhaps it was not) [19:24]
gac410Or any other web. [19:24]
GuilainC(don't well remember)
my feeling in docker
is if you need to separate data and your app
create an nfs service for your data
your app in a docker
and then let communicate by unix socket
[19:25]
gac410y. i agree. Well, nfs is probably not a good idea for foswiki. generally local disk is going to be faster. [19:25]
GuilainCbut the performance for a foswiki installation could be a mess ?!
when say nfs is meaning an network acces for your file
perhaps something is better ?!
[19:25]
gac410Don't really know. In my somewhat limited experience with deployments. direct rotating media is good, SDD is much better. Network is not a great idea.
er. SSD
Maybe things have changed. But I'm cautious.
I don't know if it's possible, but ideally, docker would allow data/ and pub/ to be exported for external use, but symlink in the data/System and pub/System, so you could upgrade the docker without copying in all your user data.
[19:27]
GuilainCi mean by network, I mean local to the machine. For example when you connect to a database, the exchange is done by local unix socket, that's my purpose
your Server S
[19:31]
gac410oh. okay. [19:31]
GuilainCwhich contains 1 docker app = foswiki
and 1 docker app = local FS ; could be DB, could be nfs
in this case is -just- a separation between data & docker
but I'm clearly begin with docker to,
[19:31]
gac410data/(everyting but System) pub/(everything but System), and working, all could be *potentially* externalized, exported, ... I don't know the docker terminology. [19:32]
GuilainCthat's just one understanding, in my need, I don't care to put out of the docker the data folders
what about Main ?
is not need for upgrade ?
is not write during an upgrade ?
[19:32]
gac410Since the docker uses tools/configure for CLI configuration, that could be expanded and parameterized for a much richer configuration, installation of extensions, etc.
Main *mostly* does not need writing during an upgrade. Once in a great while somethign changes, but most of the "meat" is in System.
Another way to deal with Main, and Sandbox, is to rename them to something different. Locally I use "Usersweb" and "Litterbox"
[19:33]
GuilainCseems to be a good start for you usage : https://mop.koeln/blog/2016/01/31/Upgrading-docker-containers-with-attached-data/
(precisely, of what i understand ;) )
AMHA, it will be good that only system is changed during upgrade, and everything is "linked" to the Main for customization
but i remember that at my begins with foswiki, understand how main can customize system is not an easy understanding
[19:35]
gac410Our "upgrade" package distributes a total of 4 files in Main. GroupTemplate, GroupViewTemplate, WikiGroups and AdminUserLeftBar
We should probably look at those one more time to figure out some way to pull them from System. We probably should not ship the LeftBar as that is likely to be customized anyway.
Quickly looking at them we could probably use the new INCLUDE{topic1 topic2} list function to move both templates to the System web.
[19:38]
GuilainCrooohh ? new include ? [19:47]
gac410Another upgrade idea ... working/logs/configure.log has a complete list of changes made by bin/configure (without passwords!) So a "replay" tool could potentially fast forward a new install with the changed settings from an old one.
Y, include now can have a list of topics, and the "first available" will be included. INCLUDE{"Main.SomeTopic, System.SomeTopic"}% ... "falls back" to the System web if Main doesn't have it (or it's not readable).
Anyway, that's where I left off with Docker. Trying to understand volumes, and how to map the foswiki distribution files, and allow preservation of local user data. etc. Ran out of energy. ;)
That's why I said Sven's was an "initial" attempt ... lots more could be done.
[19:48]
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GuilainCunderstood
i will try the sven's docker, for an easy deployement
on our server
[20:21]
gac410defaults to 2.0.3 ... 2.1.3 is current now. [20:23]
GuilainCjust change the version ?
and then finish by some cpan install ?!
(version is a parameters, in the docker file
[20:23]
gac410y. I think you can pass it an ARG for the version and cpan - See Foswiki:System.Requirements for all the CPAN requirements. The Debian/Ubuntu section has an example apt-get to install the pieces [20:25]
FoswikiBothttps://foswiki.org/System.Requirements [20:25]
gac410Ooops Foswiki:System.SystemRequirements [20:25]
FoswikiBothttps://foswiki.org/System.SystemRequirements [ SystemRequirements ] [20:25]
GuilainCthanks
xwiki docker example
use volume : https://hub.docker.com/r/mwaeckerlin/xwiki/
anyway, i will see that this week-end, tomorow i've a meeting with our admin sys to explain how they use docker
[20:28]
gac410sounds good. Any hints / suggestsions feel free to add it / comment on the Foswiki:Development.AddDockerContainerForDistributionMethod [20:32]
FoswikiBothttps://foswiki.org/Development.AddDockerContainerForDistributionMethod [ AddDockerContainerForDistributionMethod ] [20:32]
gac410thanks [20:32]

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