#foswiki 2017-05-19,Fri

↑back Search ←Prev date Next date→ Show only urls(Click on time to select a line by its url)

WhoWhatWhen
vrurgWhat? Nobody gave it some good karma before? Damn you people, you're so harsh! [00:00]
daemonok this is naughty naughty but that env path was bothing me
ln -s /usr/local/bin/perl /usr/bin/perl
env works now :)
thank you guys for the help as well; forgot my manners
vrurg++
[00:00]
FoswikiBotKarma for vrurg is now 2 [00:00]
daemongac410++ [00:00]
FoswikiBotKarma for gac410 is now 21 [00:00]
gac410Unfortunately we've had very mixed results with pkg maintainers. They tend to drift away. Really I'd recommend sticking with our tarballs. [00:00]
daemon[Fri May 19 00:00:36.870561 2017] [fcgid:warn] [pid 49954] [client 2001:470:1f09:101a:::62355] mod_fcgid: stderr: WARNING - /usr/local/www/foswiki/data/.htpasswd DOES NOT EXIST
weird I could have sworn I did that in a config step
or at least I had to copy and touch a few htpasswd's
[00:01]
gac410No problem there. That will get created automatically when you register the first user [00:01]
vrurgI'm backin gac410 on this. Some soft is really pain in the ass to install. But foswiki is just 'unpack and use' one except for the deps. [00:02]
gac410You should not need to fiddle with .htpasswd directly, unless the port is doing strange things. [00:02]
daemonok I think I have a domain cached but just to make sure
https://[2a01:4f8:150:64cd::1:100] works fine for me
broken ssl obviously
but https://wiki.tmp.group does not
and it should as its AAAA is pointed there
[00:02]
gac410no IPv6 here for me :( Can't help. [00:02]
daemongac410, you know you can always grab a tunnel from tunnelbroker.net
for when you need a v6 link
they do come in handy
[00:03]
gac410but foswiki will work fine on it. foswiki.org is on v4 + v6 both.
y, I brought up a 6 tunnel a couple of times, but not often enough to remember how.
[00:03]
daemonif your on a bsd or linux lan and you have bsd or linux running on your gateway you can spend a little longer and setup rta-dvd
so everything on your lan auto gets v6 (SLACC)
takes literally .. an hour even if your not used to the daemons
[00:04]
gac410Note that we do have a Foswiki 2.1.4-RC2 tarball has a couple of security fixes - nothing major thankfully.
At this point I'll probably build the real 2.1.4 this weekend with no changes from the RC2.
[00:05]
daemonyeah I did read the release notes for it, the security implications did not seem grave enough to warrent wandering from the release :)
unless you would heavily suggest going with the RC
now would be the time and all before the install :)
[00:05]
gac410nah. Just as RM I like to get feedback. ;) [00:06]
daemonhmm well I suppose I can slap it on, reckon it woudl be safe for me to tar -xz it straight over the current install to retain the configs that are in place? [00:06]
gac410hm maybe not. [00:07]
vrurgvrurg is not happy with ipv6 as they ditched the private network concept. :( But that's off-top. [00:07]
gac410I didn't build an upgrade package for it, so you would overlay WebPreferences, etc. [00:07]
daemonvrurg, I actually spun the wiki up in a jail and V6 allowed me to connect it without requesting another ip ;) but what I might try (having to much spare time) is getting the parent of the jail to V4inV6 map the internet inbound to the jail
so v4 users access the wiki as :FFFF::IPV4 mapped addresses (Forgot the exact syntax)
may as well try the rc
[00:08]
vrurgdaemon: nothing here about your setup. :)
Ok, I'll be finishing some code, finally.
[00:10]
daemonvrurg, I will soon be presenting a podcast of howto setup freebsd in various situations, this wiki is for a spinoff idea I had, I am hoping to throw a fatpacked perl script in ports that basically runs pciconf and a colourful array of detection tools to dig out what hardware people are running on what freebsd's it will then post the config and bound drivers to this site which will keep an index showing where hardware is lacking or we have alot of
users, it will also allow users to link (identify) commercial products to there hardware revisions
so a catalogue of freebsd hardware and its varying states of support
ok that was alot longer than I expected and offtopic
forgive me :)
[00:11]
gac410we don't worry too much about off-topic [00:12]
daemongac410, I also appear to be being, git blind where can I grab a tarbell of the latest rc I seem to be just running into -releases
or do I need to clone the git repo
[00:13]
gac410https://foswiki.org/Download/FoswikiRelease02x01x04-RC2
No... no clone needed.
[00:13]
daemonah ha many thanks
no ipv6 support to github.com really
[00:14]
gac410really? That's surprising. I figured most of the major sites had v6 [00:15]
daemonyeah just checked with host no v6 [00:16]
vrurgdaemon: Hm, not sure if I got your idea in it's full, but in general I was recently looking for a cheap hardware for a home freebsd server and found no so much info I was looking for. So, yours looks really promising. [00:16]
daemonvrurg, yeah we are missing a map of 'what things really are'
infact every OS is, might be able to make it cross platform
ok and got it, make a quick backup of the old one and lets see how she goes
so from http://foswiki.org/System/InstallationGuide#A_5_45Minute_Install
I do not need to actual to the 'method 3'
well they all say optional
lets see what it does without
[00:16]
gac410method 3 - you mean .htaccess files? No definitely NOT recommended. Only if you are on a hosted site where that's your only choice. [00:21]
daemonah
straight in btw
265 0:21 chown -R www:www /usr/local/www/foswiki/working/logs/
266 0:22 chown -R www:www /usr/local/www/foswiki/working/tmp/
was all that was required
oh and chmod +x
[00:22]
gac410Really you should probably chownd foswiki/* Make sure data files have correct ownership. [00:23]
daemonlooking at how this is laid out, I would assume only working/* is actually written to? [00:23]
gac410No. data/ and pub/ That's your topics and attachments. [00:24]
daemonah yes will likely require those [00:24]
gac410bin/configure has a directory permissions checker in the Paths page. [00:24]
daemonshould everything in bin/ be chmod +x [00:25]
vrurgchown -R www:www /usr/local/www/foswiki is lukring in my zsh history on the web server. [00:25]
gac410You can also run the checker from the CLI: ex: sudo -u www perl  tools/configure -check {PubDir} -method validate_permissions
daemon: Yes, welll mostly. LocalLib.cfg ... does not need +x.
[00:26]
daemonperfect I went for the 'chown -R www:www /usr/local/www/foswiki' route probably best to start out that way
I am kind of used to configuring php sites where by default its best to have absolutely everything you can think of readonly or prefferable 'no access' if you can get away with it :)
[00:27]
gac410I just checked the tarball They should all have had the correct permissions. [00:27]
daemonah I never checked I assumed it woudl be the same as the package
indeed looks like they are all +x
[00:28]
gac410phew... Another bullet dodged by the RM [00:28]
daemonI would still love to know why I cannot use my domain to access this thing, let me try a different browser [00:29]
vrurggac410: Well done, Neo!
Though being advanced enough you won't be dodging them... ;)
[00:29]
gac410Does the virtualhost statement have the correct hostname? [00:30]
daemonindeed I used one of my remote testing nodes instead of my localbox that can use the hostname just find
I must have ome caching doing something silly somewhere here
s/find/fine/
looks like I got the SSL right the first time too
[00:30]
gac410Sometimes apache can be very stubborn on matching the right vhost. SSL can be a real pain if some clients don't support SNI though hopefully that's less of an issue with the death of IE6 [00:32]
daemonhttps://itsosticky.com/1vmczvc :)
now lets get rid of all these exclamation marks
[00:32]
gac410hm Do you use .group as your TLD? I suspect our email domain match code might miss that one. Mail > Advanced settings > {Email}{ValidTLD} [00:33]
daemonindeed though this is not the actual domain this will be on
was just one I had spare to install it with
'tmp.group' not really appropriate for my little BSD project
probably get daemonhardware.org or something
will that be an issue transitioning later?
[00:34]
gac410Our matching of valid TLDs to autolink email addresses is probably bogus what with the vastly expanded TLDs.
No. Just change your domain and edit your DefaultHostUrl
[00:35]
daemonperfect
indeed with all the new gTLD's I imagine alot of regexs will be having a bad time in the coming years
oh hehe 'daemon.guru' is availible
be perfect for a freebsd consultancy service
[00:36]
gac410vrurg, have you looked at the "Legacy" engine code at any point? I'm thinking of suggesing we just remove it. It says it's for pre foswiki 1.0 CGI scripts, And under some conditions it's causing a deep subroutine recursion issue on master.
REMINDER. Tomorrow is the Foswiki Assocation "Extraordinary General Assembly" 1100Z (7am Eastern Daylight time) :P
[00:40]
vrurggac410: You know, it's really easy to me. How many plugins are out there installing that old scripts? Just few? Dump it! ;) [00:45]
gac410That's my opinion. I can't even think of an example that would need it. Early use was the Solr search scripts. But thats been long since upgraded. [00:46]
vrurgLegacy is in fact VERY problematic. [00:46]
daemonok I went for something a tad unusual, but I just really liked the way it sounded 'daedb.me' :D [00:48]
vrurgdaemon: Don't. Just don't. It sounds like a cursing in east-slavic languages. [00:49]
daemonI already got it
ah well it only cost a few pence
you know what I like tmp.group; sod it, it can stay as that
[00:49]
vrurgOk, don't use it for the project then. ;) [00:50]
daemonvrurg, I take it, its also something quite severe as well
I will find something for it somewhere
ah your tld's just for a side point: (?^i:AERO|ARPA|ASIA|BIZ|CAT|COM|COOP|EDU|GOV|INFO|INT|JOBS|MIL|MOBI|MUSEUM|NAME|NET|ORG|PRO|TEL|TRAVEL|XXX)
I just added |GROUP at the end
[00:52]
gac410That should do it. [00:54]
daemonAERO ?
aeronatuics?
cool never knew that had its own tld
[00:54]
gac410yeah Aviation .. it was one of the original extended TLDs [00:55]
daemonok I might need a little bit of a pointer here, the store, its currently set as plainfile, the system database and infact all my system databases are postgresql, is there a migration path availible here for if I needed to use a real database for storage (if my hardware DB got really big for instance)
so can I leave it as plain and migrate later
or is that a nightmare (like it is on nearly everything usually :) )
[00:57]
gac410Hm. Foswiki doesn't really have a database backend. [00:58]
daemonoh I thought I read it did, never mind that decides that then :) [00:58]
gac410Only choices are RCS based or PlainFile. PlainFile is pretty new.
one downside of plainfile is it depends on the file system meta. So touching files will change history.
[00:58]
daemonis it going to be upset if my filesystem does not store atime for instance [00:59]
gac410No... it does not need atime. Only the modified time. [01:00]
daemonok dokey [01:00]
vrurgWhat about DBStoreContrib or something like this?
cdot's work, if I'm not mistaken.
[01:00]
gac410I'm not sure it is a full DB backend vs a shadow for db search acceleration. [01:00]
daemonits not to bad either way, because if its purely file based and its starts getting big, I will just drop it on a server with a hyped up ZFS config [01:01]
vrurghttps://foswiki.org/Extensions/DBIStoreContrib [01:01]
gac410Maybe I'm mis-speaking. But I'm pretty sure that foswiki really depends on the text file backend.
This extension supports fast queries and searches over the content of topics and attachments by caching wiki topics in an SQL database.
It's a cache of the real store, not a replacement.
[01:01]
vrurgProperly configured ZFS can do some miracles. But still not a full alternative to a DB.
One of my dreams is that v3 will make it possible for a full-fledged DB backend.
[01:02]
daemonI just wonder what point you would need to move to a database though, alot now days conencts to full on databases that really does not need it, would you actually hit other bottle necks before you hit data lookup? [01:04]
gac410One of the big advantages of foswiki / twiki was that other software could dump plain text files into the "right place" and foswiki can read them just fine.
There have been a number of DB projects to augment the text store with DB for performance / search. One of our largest installs was an experimental deployment on MongoDB. 100,000's of topics about the mangroves in Australia.
Unfortunately politics killed the funding and the system died. Really a shame.
[01:05]
daemonyikes how many md5 types can {Htpasswd}{Encoding} use I take it, it just auto detects what is on the system [01:07]
gac410Yes. Be cautious though. we use an unsupported extension to the .htpasswd format. [01:09]
daemonguess I will give it Crypt::Eksblowfish a spin [01:09]
gac410So we add :email@address to the .htpasswd file.
Trying to share our .htpasswd with other systems is fraught with danger if they can update it ... and clobber our email store.
[01:09]
daemonah I decided to shove the email store out of the way
/var/auth/wiki.db www:www chmod 700
[01:10]
gac410If you register a user, their email address is stored in .htpasswd. [01:11]
daemonyeah this is the user/password file
this I am kinda suprised is not a real flatfile db
[01:11]
gac410Big installations typically don't use the foswiki Password Manager, but instead use LDAP or another externa authenticator.
Corps typically end up on AD. :P
[01:12]
daemonI noticed on your site a callout to some isps to update from the parent project tkwiki was it?
I have never even heard of this wiki till earlier today when I went hunting for one that was not mediawiki
[01:13]
gac410hm We should not be calling out to twiki.org ... that indeed is our parent, a lot of bad blood there that I stayed out of. [01:14]
daemonwhere did I see that ...
it was a reference from something like a 5 minute install
[01:14]
gac410A lot of the code decisions date from twiki which was actually a clone of joswiki. So when people ask "Why" ... well it's because decisions on some things were made in the late 90's [01:15]
daemon'why you should upgrade from ...' [01:15]
gac410Oh... yeah.
We do reference it, as we've seen a lot of sites migrate. And we have to honor the coppyrights as well.
And trademarks
[01:15]
daemontkwiki was also on my list to checkout you see so saved me a bit of time :)
I was actually amazed just how many wiki's there are
[01:16]
gac410It's just TWiki. yeah there are a lot. tikiwiki too [01:16]
daemonthere is even a website dedicated just to listing them [01:16]
gac410yup - wikimatrix [01:17]
daemonhttp://www.wikimatrix.org
odd question on the 'file system paths' https://itsosticky.com/ajn43g
I take the [tick] means there ok
on the validate button
ah the ! is for the SafePath
I take it SafePath should be the system path to the 'sodwiki' bin
'foswiki' bin/ even
oh external programs too
[01:17]
gac410daemon: Did the SetEnv statement in the apache config resolve the path issue for foswiki.fcgi, or did you have to update the shebang anyway? [01:22]
daemongac410, I went the third way: 'ln -s /usr/local/bin/perl /usr/bin/perl' [01:22]
gac410oh.. .okay. thx. [01:22]
daemonthe SetEnv method did not appear to work
the 'direct path' method did
[01:23]
gac410okay thanks. [01:23]
daemonbut I just do not like setting direct paths, because you can gurantee you guys will update it, I will forget about it then wonder what hte heck is gonig wrong :)
going*
[01:24]
gac410SafeEnvPath is the path that will be used if we "shell out" to external tools. grep, rcs, and some plugins that use external tools - imagemagick, graphviz, etc. [01:24]
daemonhmmm I see, I take it normal suers cannot trigger calling any external tools
its only modules that will use this path
[01:24]
gac410we *typically* just inherit the System PATH but that can be unreliable.
Certanily true with default foswiki install and most "well known" extensions. But I can't guaranty that all of the contributed extensions are all completely clean.
[01:25]
daemonah ok dokey [01:26]
gac410nothing in foswiki will let you run your own perl code. Or shell out. If it did, we'd consider it a severe security error.
However there are some questionable plugins. There is a PerlPlugin which does allow user executed code. It is sandboxed / disarmed. But I wouln't use it ;D
[01:26]
daemonYes me neither lol
I think I am almost set, got an exclamation over mail and general(because of safe path) and thats it
passwords all set
[01:27]
gac410great.
You were missing some critical dependencies for Email.
[01:28]
vrurggac410: You forget about my DBIQueryPlugin.
It let's running Perl code too. But with ACL checks.
[01:29]
daemonI take it you guys woudl be happy with a few commits to the default template and such
via git
[01:29]
gac410Does it let you execute perl code provided by the user? Danger Danger Will Robinson
daemon: sure.
well to commit we'd prefer that a Task be opened on our Tasks system so we can track it.
Foswiki:Tasks
[01:30]
FoswikiBothttps://foswiki.org/Tasks [ WebHome ] [01:30]
daemonah lovely will take a peak, I just got a weird feeling; you guys have people using your wiki who have clients on ancient browsers right? :) [01:31]
gac410But if you want to sent us a pull request we'll gladly do it.
Y. indeed. We've finally given up on IE6 but still get complaints. :P
[01:31]
daemonyeah first thing I did as a habbit was run the front page through validator was about to start saying about tables and such then thought
.... hold on a moment how old is the client base for some of the people using this
lol
[01:32]
vrurggac410: By trusted users only. [01:32]
gac410Our PatternSkin is quite old. MichaelDaum maintains the NatSkin (Natural Skin) A **much** more complex ecosystem with a more modern look/fee.
feel.
https://blog.foswiki.org/ is using NatSkin
[01:33]
daemonprobably just because i am working on settings and such
https://i.itsosticky.com/eyl090.png that looks like templating showing through
is that norma
l
[01:33]
gac410Some of our HTML generation is very archaic Oh... that. ...
The "Summary" is a small plain text snippet grabbed from the raw topic text. So it shows unrendered stuff.
[01:34]
daemonah perfect makes sense then :) [01:34]
gac410As it is only 150 characters or so, if we tried to expand macros %IF{...} or headings ---++ ... it would really mess up the page. [01:35]
daemonquick bit of javascript could auto shorten it like ... read more
I could probably throw together some code to do that if interested
[01:35]
gac410y. SMOT / SMOV (simple matter of time / simple matter of volunteers) So much to do, so little time [01:36]
daemonI really like the feel of this thing
nice simple and compact
great work guys
[01:37]
gac410thanks.
The big thing to get used to is the power of "Structured" topics. Putting data in formfields and using SEARCH and other macros to build dynamic pages. Big learning curve but very powerful.
[01:37]
daemonI imagine I will have several parent topics (hardware manufacturer names) that can all link to a drivebase or something similier
so people can look up what actual hardware they have and find out if anyone has it working
be an interesting layout lots of hierarchical links more than likely
going to need to come up with a way to add some kind of event handler
for data submission as well
[01:42]
gac410Our plugins do have the abilty to hook into actions. beforeSave, afterSave, beforeAttach beforeEdit afterEdit ...
There have been attempts at also doing store-level hooks / events. I'm not sure what happened to all that work. The developer doing the work left after his contract dried up.
(The MongoDB hooks)
Back when the project was on Subversion, our master branch became the target for a lot of experimental development. Untangling that mess when we finally released 2.0 was a bit of a nightmare.
Our new development model is to use git branches for features, and only merge into master when reasonably "release" ready.
[01:47]
daemonwhat I am hoping is I can create somehing of a unique machine identifier, so when people do submit blocks of machine information JSON format) it can be sent to the webserver and catalogued for storeage and dissemination
but I am hoping as people get more involved they create accounts, so that even at a later date I can associate accounts on the wiki with hardware that was submitted
(this step is so people can leave remarks etc) on what hardware is what
was planning on using some kind of one way hash based on a hash of the stored credetials for tracking who owns what for linking purposes
[01:50]
gac410We do have a JsonRpc handler. that can interact with foswiki. Configure is an example. The configure script just puts up a frame and all the guts is done with javascript and jsonrpc requests. [01:51]
daemonI wonder though bearing in mind I have no idea how popular this will be but I can predict when spoikes will be if I should actually run the RPC endpoint as a different process away from the wiki its self, so that data can be added in a linear sane fasion
do not want to end up in a situation where the wiki si so busy dealing with submittance and sorting that it starts blocking out actual users
it also means that I could always have submittance.domain.tld so if it did get very popular
[01:52]
gac410If sorting/searching is too big, then look at Solr to accelerate faceted search. [01:54]
daemonI could easily seperate of the sorter/workers onto a different server
I want to try develop the base as much as I can to 'be able to take it' if something unexpected happens
[01:54]
gac410Foswiki:Extensions/SolrPlugin [01:55]
FoswikiBothttps://foswiki.org/Extensions/SolrPlugin [ SolrPlugin ] [01:55]
daemondo not want to promise a project that can deliver and then have it fall down when it gets a little work :)
ah duckduckgo is based on solr
[01:55]
gac410As our default search is basically sequentially reading text files, search can indeed bog down. But that's why things like Solr, or the DBIStoreContrib exist.
Our biggest performance issue on foswiki.org is the (&*#W(@@$ search bots and crawlers.
[01:56]
daemon(I do not actually know if what I am about to say is true or not), but I thought you could gen a XML 'tree' of your site and actually reply to them with that [01:58]
gac410SemRushBot we finally blocked their IPs with fail2ban, they hit sooo hard. Sort every table in every direction . Click every friggin link, ignore dontfollow. Saw one site where for a couple of days 70% of their workload was that one bot, hitting just one page. [01:58]
daemonor something like that, so you could offset the load they generate [01:58]
gac410They were actually consideing a server upgrade. Until I blocked that one bot. [01:59]
daemonthen again ... there are bots that behave there self
and botrs that do not as well
[01:59]
gac410y. We dont' do a lot of blocking on f.o, and much is well behaved. But there are some really evil ones out there.
If you are going to be exposed to the internet, its a good idea to deny WikiGuest for System web. No need to duplicate all of foswiki documentation for the bots entertainment.
I guess that the search engines will lower the ranking if you duplicate a lot of content.
[02:00]
daemontrue; at least while I am playing about alot of the internet really does not seem to like ipv6
even github which really was a suprise
[02:03]
gac410from a search: According to Tore Anderson's blog, because their CDN provider (Fastly) does not support IPv6.
They do have v6 addresses allocated.
[02:05]
daemonroot@wiki:/usr/ports # host semrush.com
semrush.com has address 46.229.161.160
no AAAA
not, that that means anything
52720 www 1 21 0 144M 86316K accept 4 0:04 0.00% perl /usr/local/www/foswiki/bin/foswiki.fcgi
52738 www 1 24 0 138M 79612K accept 4 0:02 0.00% perl /usr/local/www/foswiki/bin/foswiki.fcgi
not to heavy at least
[02:17]
gac410they use a large block of IPs and even claim that you can't block by IP because they distribute their searching. [02:17]
daemonI am suprised that it generates enough to tie up modern servers [02:17]
gac410our search can be fairly slow in webs with large numbers of topics, depending on how the macros are written. [02:17]
daemonso I imagine if you could search against memory backed sqlite tables it would really help [02:19]
gac410right. Hence things like DBIStoreContrib, SolrPlugin and other extensions to help with searching [02:20]
daemonit is very light
https://paste.ee/p/8rZos
but it is sleep time :)
[02:21]
gac410g'night [02:22]
daemong;night to you too :) [02:22]
....................... (idle for 1h50mn)
***gac410 has left [04:12]
......................... (idle for 2h3mn)
ChanServ sets mode: +o MichaelDaum [06:15]
........................................................ (idle for 4h36mn)
ChanServ sets mode: +o gac410 [10:51]
gac410Reminder Foswiki Association meeting being held Now in #foswiki-association [11:05]
........................ (idle for 1h58mn)
MichaelDaumis there any other way to compress language files other than going by configure? [13:03]
gac410not that I know of. And last I knew compressed files caused some issues and we disabled that feature by default.
I don't remember now what the problem was.
[13:03]
MichaelDaumas far as I remember it was causing tainted issues
cus with all languages enabled it takes a lot of time a new foswiki process needs to initialize in _loadLexicon()
[13:04]
gac410Looks like you have to trigger a save cycle to check the language files. It's done in the configure ONSAVE handler
That one would be worth creating a wizard to also drive a check and re-compression of the files.
[13:14]
MichaelDaum: Compression disabled in Item10754 Lavr encountered his systems hanging forever on some versions of CPAN modules. [13:26]
FoswikiBothttps://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item10754 [ Item10754: Enabling Languages makes view hang forever ] [13:26]
MichaelDaumplus: compressing language files does not compress those coming with plugins; it probably doesnt compile them once a plugin materializes later on.
it just compresses those of the core
[13:27]
gac410y that code has not been touched since we disabled it way back when.
That was before plugins could be translated.
[13:27]
MichaelDaumy
I am still baffled how long it takes to load all lexicons
[13:28]
gac410btw.. Regarding that deep recursion. I'm wondering if we should just remove the old Legacy engine and default to CGI or CLI in Foswiki.pm [13:29]
MichaelDaumeven though it is a one time action in BEGIN does it thwart scripting foswiki
+1 on removing legacy
[13:29]
gac410It was used for supporting "Pre 1.0 CGI scripts" and Solr mentioned in the initial commit. [13:30]
MichaelDaumheh
let's break it
[13:30]
gac410I could not figure out how to prevent the loop directly in the Legacy engine. It seemed to be related to the module load order. [13:30]
MichaelDaumyes. good analysis. [13:31]
gac410Posted some simple re-creations in the task.
Technically we need a feature request to remove a feature :P
[13:31]
MichaelDaumin the meantime I "fixed" it by adding JQueryPlugin as a requirement in the DEPENDENCIES file just before the line listing JsonRpcContrib .... >:] [13:32]
gac410And have to go through deprecation. But in this case I think it's well overdue. We have no tests for it and I could not find a good use case.
You can also fix it by just adding a "require Foswiki" to pseudo-install.
[13:32]
Re compression: This is what you said on 29 Aug 2011:
I just recently had to disable $Foswiki::cfg{LanguageFileCompression} on my foswiki/trunk yet again, even with up-to-date perl packages. As I don't see any performance gain anyway, $Foswiki::cfg{LanguageFileCompression} should default to off in the next release. This setting is causing too much headaches in the current perl landscape unfortunately.
[13:37]
MichaelDaumI remember. So I revisited this code again.
with all lang files compiled to mo, even for the plugins, foswiki loads 3x faster the first time. so it is worth investigating again.
[13:49]
gac410wow. That is significant. [13:50]
MichaelDaummy initial remark on not making any difference was only targeting a persistent perl situation where you only pay once for loading lexicons and then never again
meaning until after a fresh foswiki backend is allocated
[13:51]
gac410So need to fix compressor to also support extensions. Maybe change it to a wizard, and change the pkg installer to run the wizard automatically?
So installing or updating an extension refreshes the compression.
I don't think we want to check the po / mo timestamps on every txn to determine if an update is needed.
[13:53]
MichaelDaumfastcgi engine has got a max request and max memory setting. if these are configured too aggressively, will you pay for loading lexicons every now and then when these constraints are violated.... and this was well perceivable in some situations...like: every now and then foswiki had a sort of hick-up where it slowed down for a certain page and was fast again on a subsequent call [13:54]
gac410Maybe we should enable compression on foswiki.org and see if anything shakes out. [13:55]
MichaelDaumIn the past I solved it by improving max requst and max memory settings as well as disable some languages rarely needed ... such as klingon
yes, good idea. as well as interface internationalization and a couple more languages
[13:55]
gac410hm That should already be enabled At least it was. [13:56]
MichaelDaumya most probably it is. just mentioning. [13:57]
gac410I think I enabled all languages that were > 50% translated at one point anyway.
Actually f.o has all languages enabled except Bulgarian and Turkish
[13:57]
MichaelDaumMichaelDaum need to get something to eat. ... back later [13:57]
gac410gac410 will turn on compression now.
have a good lunch
Oh.. Korean is also disabled.
[13:58]
Language file compression is enabled on foswiki.org blog.foswiki.org and trunk.foswiki.org. Shout out if any issues spotted.
restarted apache to make sure all the handlers agree on settings.
[14:03]
...... (idle for 25mn)
jmk0question: how does one use $FIND in the %CALC% macro when "string" or "text" contain a comma?
no luck triple quoting or using $quot but that might be due to the fact that i'm using %CALC% inside of a %SEARCH%
[14:29]
looks like I can use $LISTJOIN to get rid of the commas though [14:44]
gac410You might try the CALCULATE macro instead of CALC. [14:45]
Lynnwood__i'm trying to get outgoing mail via gmail working on a brand new installation and am having no luck at all.
I've reviewed everything on http://foswiki.org/Support/Faq69
[14:57]
gac410Did you visit google and set it up for unsecure access? [14:58]
Lynnwood__yep
this has been working for an older install just fine.
[14:58]
gac4102.1.3? [14:58]
Lynnwood__y
well the older install was 1.1.10
[14:58]
gac410I usually test gmail at least once in a release. Let me give it a quick try. [14:59]
Lynnwood__one thing that's odd is that I have {SMTP}{Debug} enabled but nothing is showing up in either apache or foswiki logs
After entering the gmail user and password (which i've confirmed are correct and working), and run the autoconfigure script, it tries and doesn't report any of the errors listed in the FAQ topic.
[15:00]
gac410Just tested and it worked fine. Here are my settings (with redacted..) [15:01]
Lynnwood__The only obvious thing i can see in there is that it says that authentication is required.
(but apparently doesn't work)
[15:02]
gac410tools/configure -save -set {SMTP}{MAILHOST}='smtp.gmail.com:465' -set {SMTP}{Password}='thepassword' -set {SMTP}{Username}='youraddress@gmail.com'
let me give autoconfigure a try too.
[15:02]
jastwhich means you'll be wanting to configure MailMethod to Net::SMTP with SSL, too
and have the necessary packages installed for SSL SMTP support
[15:03]
gac410hm yeah. Just noticed that my settings were not right. [15:04]
jasthuh, port 465 for mail has been deprecated since early 1999 [15:06]
Lynnwood__i tried with and without it [15:06]
gac410Hang on ... let me go back and clear everything and try it again. Indeed it should be using STARTTLS and Submission. [15:07]
jast(port 587) [15:08]
gac410yes indeed it autoconfigured starttls once I cleared out the specific port from the SMTPHOST. and with this. I need to run out - PT appointment.
Lynnwood__: Make sure dependencies are all met. You do NOT need Crypt::SMIME or Crypt::x509 but everything else email related needs to be resolved.
gotta run. biab
[15:08]
Lynnwood__gac410 thanks.
i'm pretty sure they are all there...
so reports of something missing...
and tools/dependencies doesn't list anything missing
when i use autoconfigure it reports: " This configuration appears to be acceptable, but testing is incomplete.
Authentication failed "
[15:10]
gac410Hm... The USERNAME needs to be your gmail account user@gmail.com and password is the one-time application password generated for email [15:12]
Lynnwood__"password is the one-time application password generated for email" hmmm... [15:12]
jastnot one-time, actually :) [15:12]
Lynnwood__that's new to me...
i used the regular pw for the account.
[15:13]
jastwell, application-specific passwords are only strictly necessary if two-factor authentication is enabled on the gmail account
in other cases they're just an extra safety measure
[15:13]
daemonis there any time when foswiki would need to be able to read from a mail account? or can I just hook it up with a sendgrid account for notifications [15:13]
Lynnwood__maybe i'll try setting that up. [15:13]
jastdaemon: for notifications that's fine [15:13]
daemoncool thank you [15:13]
jastI believe someone was working on a mail client implemented in foswiki, but that's rather special circumstances :) [15:13]
............... (idle for 1h13mn)
WesleyJacobsRunning 2.1.3, On "Save and Continue" I get this error, but the save still works. Error: save failed. Please save your content locally and reload this page.
This happens on editing topics. I have isolated it to NatEditPlugin.
[16:26]
...................... (idle for 1h46mn)
***WesleyJacobs has left [18:13]
............................. (idle for 2h24mn)
GuilainChi gac410 what's up ? [20:37]
gac410Hi GuilainC
Not much happening.... Hows things with you.
[20:37]
GuilainCmore or less the same ;)
lot of work
many geekeries
last one : lte connexion with auto connexion on our product
so I've discover the wonderfull land of qmi, lte modem, wwan interface
I'm back on docker for foswiki
[20:38]
gac410cool [20:40]
GuilainCI've more "maturity" on it, and understand well your approach to separate application on one side
and data in other side
[20:40]
gac410gac410 has not done anything with docker now in a long time. Distracted getting 2.1.4 out, and some features for 2.2 [20:41]
GuilainCjuste before I try to make already done, do you know if there is any advancement from our last exchange
ok
[20:41]
gac410So no... no advancement ;) [20:41]
GuilainCi've check the irc log, and sven seems to have explain some thing but nothing in that way
so I've planned to just
separate in the "data container" all the web except system
in the app docker, we will have all the binaries, packages & so one
[20:41]
gac410That will be difficult won't it? Or will you symlink. It's tough though because we install extensions into System. So some customization ends up in System. [20:43]
GuilainCthe only things I'm unsure is basically settings (localconfig.cfg in mind)
is different for everybody ?
[20:43]
gac410lib/LocalSite.cfg ... yes its different for everyone.
bin/LocalLib.cfg ... not so much. Very unusual to configure that one.
the way foswiki mashes together user data, site configuration / optional software, etc all into the same structure makes it really difficult for packaging.
[20:44]
GuilainCi will make some simplification and choice... [20:47]
gac410Since most sites will certainly install extensions, they plugin into lib/ templates/ pub/ and data/ :( [20:47]
GuilainChum, I'm listing right now all the constraints :) [20:48]
gac410Another possibility that can be done with Foswiki 2.x is to script configuration using tools/configure.
tools/configure -save -set {SomeKey}='somevalue' -set {anotherkey}='anothervalue' ...
Basically anything at all that confiure does via the web UI can be done from the shell
[20:49]
GuilainChum ok, why not, thanks for that
GuilainC is little bit disconnected of the last change in foswiki, thanks to gac410 for helping him to have a fresh view
[20:51]
***gac410 has left
ChanServ sets mode: +o gac410
[20:54]
gac410Whoops ... hit the wrong button [20:54]
GuilainCwith docker you can map single file as all directories
so... no limit to the imagination :)
[21:00]
gac410oh great! [21:01]
Lynnwood__I'm trying to run bulk_copy from 1.1.9 installation to 2.1.3 and I get string of "Unescaped left brace in regex" errors referencing modules in the 1.1.9 installation. [21:10]
gac410y, 1.1.9 won't run with current perl. You might try upgrading it to 1.1.10, I think there are still issues, but most of them are fixed. [21:11]
Lynnwood__ah. ok
i thought i had run into this before...
[21:11]
gac410tbh I prefer to use CharsetConverterContrib but that won't change to plainfile. [21:12]
Lynnwood__do you think it's worth changing to plainfile?
I'm beginning to have my doubts about that... given what's involved with the upgrade
[21:17]
gac410I have not bothered on my sites If your site has large numbers of revisions, big binary attachments, etc, then may be worthwhile
I like to do it incrementally and test. Copy a web, data/blah pub/blah then run convert_charset -i -web blah -encoding cp1252 and if it's clean , run the web without the -i
Then do the same thing with settings converter
tools/convertTopicSettings -fixdeny -convert -update blah
or run it without -update to see what it will do. At least that one has --help. unfortunately convert_charset does not. :P
[21:18]
..... (idle for 21mn)
GuilainCgac410, what's the meaning to consider System Web as a part of the application side
I mean, WebSystem is usual a data of the user, that evolve with the binary ?
[21:43]
gac410Y. data/System and pub/System changes with each new foswiki release. But when you install an extension, it also goes into pub/System and data/System. It's a very poor architecture.
Would be wonderful if we could install extensions in a System/Extensions subweb, or better an Extensions web. But I suspect that that would be really really difficult to pull off.
[21:45]
GuilainCstep by step
all data/ will be outside the application part
:)
it's enough for this evening, have a good night or good day accordingly where you are on our little planet
[21:49]
gac410goodnight. Don't forget that javascript is a lot of our code in pub/System
So that's application too :(
[21:50]
GuilainChum you're right...
argh
[21:51]
gac410we do not make it easy do we.
sorry
[21:52]
GuilainC:)
I've night for thinking about that...
we can imagine
to have a sort of deployement script
depending of the version of the app we run
night is good for thinking
see you
[21:52]
gac410see you [21:56]

↑back Search ←Prev date Next date→ Show only urls(Click on time to select a line by its url)