#foswiki 2017-09-15,Fri

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WhoWhatWhen
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zak256What is the purpose of a file '.changes' within a web directory? Can I safely omit it when migrating my data?
Same with '*.lease' files?
[13:29]
gac410lease files can be removed. Those are used by the editor to tell if someone else has edited the topic and might still be editing [13:30]
zak256okay [13:31]
gac410.changes is used by the eachChangeSince API ... I think ... I think MailerContrib uses it to find out what changed. [13:31]
zak256ok... so I better copy it? [13:31]
gac410I don't think WebChanges uses it
There is an older (somewhat obsolete?) bin/changes script. It uses the store's eachChange API which reads .changes WebChanges uses SEARCH
[13:31]
zak256Where can I see what is activated? [13:36]
gac410i don't understand ... what is activated? [13:38]
zak256I don't really know when/how either change-api is triggered. Is this something someone can activate?
Ah, it's no notification, just an automated update of the WebChanges topic?
[13:39]
gac410No. I just searched the source. MailerContrib calls eachChangeSince() as does the bin/changes script.
Which means those are driven off the .changes file.
The WebChanges topic uses SEARCH which looks for file modified timestamps.
[13:39]
zak256Okay, so I just copy those files as well. [13:40]
gac410So yes. Those should be copied. With caveat that if you have topic names that included non-ASCII characters, the .changes file are probably going to be corrupt.
We don't have a way to fix them other than manual updates,
[13:41]
zak256I think I can safely ignore that. Our topics don't have any unusual characters. [13:42]
gac410y, I've not heard of anyone having any trouble with .changes [13:43]
zak256Hmm... next question: In the pub dir I see files _VarCachePlugin_cache.txt
I guess they belong to a CachePlugin?
[13:56]
gac410Y, I'm not really familiar with that one. VarCachePlugin. it's really old, not used on Foswiki.org [13:58]
zak256I don't see it listed on the InstalledPlugins page.
Seems like it was used ages ago and then deactivated.
[13:58]
gac410So probably just an old stale file. Safe to remove. [13:59]
zak256Yeah...
Uh... Do I love house-keeping! :-)
[13:59]
We do have several additional graphics added to System.DocumentGraphics. Is there a better and clean way to integrate these without touching the System web? [14:09]
gac410Hm... I've not looked into that. Good point though, we should have a way to extend that. [14:15]
zak256Same applies to SmiliesPlugin here... :-/
I guess for now I will just add our graphics manually again to those topics.
[14:15]
gac410Looks like DocumentGraphics does have a way to extend it using a custom skin, but that seems complex :(
With SmiliesPlugin it appears you could copy it to the Main web and then change SMILIESPLUGIN_TOPIC to point to it.
[14:17]
zak256Okay, at least that is a possibility. [14:19]
gac410It would be a nice enhancement to *merge* the SMILIESPLUGIN_TOPIC contents with the System.SmiliesPlugin ... so you could extend/override the list of graphics rather than simply replace it. [14:23]
zak256Yes... and the same with DocumentGraphics. [14:24]
gac410Hm FamFamFamContrib is somewhat a replacement for DocumentGraphics
Actually the skin template approach for extending DocumentGraphics does not look too bad.
[14:27]
zak256Really? I will have to look into that later. [14:31]
gac410https://foswiki.org/System/DocumentGraphics#Template_Customization
This is the same mechanism that FamFamFamContrib uses to extend the Icons set.
[14:33]
zak256Yes, found it. I will try that. But in the end only admins with access to the filesystem can add icons this way.
Ah... no?
"...or create a topic called MybookSkinIconsTemplate in the System web..."
[14:35]
gac410correct, you can use Toipc templates.
or per web.
in bin/configure - Expert settings, under Misc Rendering control. The Template Path is shown and listed out in nice bullet points. That's the order that the file system and webs are searched for skin templates.
And it's documented in https://foswiki.org/System/SkinTemplates#Finding_Skin_Templates
[14:35]
zak256Templates are still on my to-read list
I hope people did not edit so much in our wiki there... :-/
[14:41]
gac410It's probably one of the most powerful and yet least used features of foswiki [14:41]
***ChanServ sets mode: +o cdot [14:47]
cdotLynnwood: u in, gunga din? [14:47]
gac410howdy cdot [14:47]
Lynnwoodhowdy [14:47]
cdothi all :-) [14:47]
Lynnwood...and actually paying attention.... [14:47]
cdotmakes a change [14:47]
gac410cdot, I've been meaning to ask. Is Foswiki:Development/TinyMCEPlugin at all accurate in how to incorporate the latest tinymce release? I was going to add the latest tmce, but it was going to add >1500 files to git. So I think I'm missing something. [14:50]
FoswikiBothttps://foswiki.org/Development/TinyMCEPlugin [ TinyMCEPlugin ] [14:50]
gac410I suspect rather than cleaning manifest, there are a bunch of directories / files to purge [14:50]
cdotgac410: will check while Lynnwood is firtling....
gac410: erm, no, wildly inaccurate :-(
basically, the way you do it now is to unwrap a TMCE release into the tinymce subdirectory.
that's it, unless they change the freaking APIs again.
[14:51]
gac410er. that's what that topic does. Except it used the "developer" version. [14:52]
cdotcdot stripped out all the local code that was layered on top of the standard release
no, it's does a bunch of renaming. No need for that. I created separate developer and default subtrees
so no need to trim files etc
[14:53]
gac410Okay. So for the fundamentals... first, do I download the tmce production release, or the tmce "developers version" of the production release.
The developers version seems to have lots of files that we don't need/use
[14:54]
cdotright; but it doesn't get shipped
only the "official" version is included in the MANIFEST
I did think of extending BuildContrib to allow an entire subtree to be shipped recursively, but ran out of energy :-(
fundamentals; you download *both*
[14:58]
gac410They are also not added to git. when I did the download, I did a "git add tinymce" which added 1500+ files to git. And I decided that was not what I wanted.
oh. both??? wow.
[14:59]
cdotone goes in TinyMCEPlugin/pub/System/TinyMCEPlugin/tinymce, the other in TinyMCEPlugin/pub/System/TinyMCEPlugin/tinymce_dev
but the tinymce_dev doesn't get shipped with a release
[15:00]
gac410Okay. Excellent. [15:01]
cdotswitching to the _dev version for development is a manual, clunky process, and only really necessary if you suspect an upstream error [15:01]
gac410but all files in both tinymce and tinymce_dev should be in git. [15:02]
cdotcorrect
well, _dev doesn't *really* have to be, but I just did it that way for consistency
[15:02]
gac410And I understand what I did wrong. I unwrapped the _dev version into the tinymce directory. oops
I'll try it all again and see what I get.
[15:02]
cdotsorry, I should have written some doc [15:03]
gac410No problem. I'll try to update the docs as I muddle through it. I have updated tmce before, but it was a long time ago, and I did follow that guide.
So one last question. All files in "tinymce" should also be in MANIFEST, but with no renaming / fiddling needed?
the "build.pl manifest" target creates a new MANIFEST file. But we need an "omit" option to skip over the tinymce_dev directory
[15:03]
cdoty, I guess. Or an aide memoire to copy-paste [15:06]
gac410okay thanks. I'll fiddle away and see what I can do without too much extreme damage :D [15:07]
cdotnice one. I#ll be around for the next couple of hours. [15:07]
gac410thanks.
One more History Lesson ,... ??? in https://foswiki.org/System/SkinTemplates#Finding_Skin_Templates we don't include in the list of locations
3A: Main.$skinSkin$nameTemplate
Seems like that would be nice in that sites could override any System web template across all webs rather than a per $web instance
But as I recall even thinking about our template search order is asking for extreme pain
Would be really nice if we could somehow avoid *any* changes to the System web, even additions. Adding a "LocalSystem" web into the mix :P
[15:08]
zak256gac410: I just executed convert_charset.pl with a larger directory again. It says: CONVERSION FINISHED: Moved: 1, Converted 50378
What does "Moved: 1" mean?
[15:16]
gac410I think that's a Topic or Attachment name that had to be renamed.
Something with a non-ASCII character in the name. Like an accented character - umlaut, etc.
[15:17]
zak256How can I find out which one that was? [15:18]
gac410hm Did you run it with the -i option to inspect first? [15:19]
zak256No... but I can recreate my test directory of course. [15:19]
gac410I really don't remember now if -i will tell you what changes it will make. [15:19]
zak256I think it does, then I can grep. [15:19]
cdotgac410: I was never involved with the template path code. It's a mystery to me. [15:23]
gac410okay ... So a member of my club ;) [15:23]
cdotbut yes, I agree. No changes to System was one of my early guiding principles (with limited success, as you can see) [15:23]
gac410I've played around with a Docker version a few times, but our intermixing of distribution and post-install files in the directories makes things really untenable
we need a "local/lib local/templates ...etc for the non-web stuff. And for webs, if wishes were fishes ... A UnionFS concept for System and Main would be wonderful.
[15:25]
cdotaye, it was a big problem for the rpm and apt packages too [15:27]
gac410yes
We need a "UnionStore" which does all writing into a local/data and local/pub and read/merges from data/
But I suspect performance would be a huge issue.
[15:27]
cdotwell, no, not necessairly. It would need some optimisations, yes
I did experiment at one point using a soft-link tree
so the "read only" stuff was in readonly/System, soft linked from readwrite/System
[15:31]
gac410y, I had an old twiki install that reverse symlinked all back to a distribution directory. [15:32]
cdotbut of course that isn't portable, so I binned it
it morphed into pseudo-install in the end
[15:32]
gac410I don't recall how the admin had it set up,. but webs were symlinked, and then distributed files were symlinked back. It was a really convoluted install, but let us update from svn without touching anything. [15:33]
cdoty. I do that on a web level a lot. There's really no reason for a grunt to write to System, for e.g. [15:35]
gac410We still have a lot of stuff that says "update this in System" ... just noticed SmiliesPlugin does that. It would be so simple to merge in from Main [15:36]
cdotNo, I don't like that. Main has to be writable by grunts. System + LocalSystem would be OK tho
or System + Local
[15:41]
gac410y. For a future restructuring. But today most of our customization is done by preferring Main.<sometopic> over System.<sometopic> [15:42]
cdotI thought we'd pretty much converted all the plugins to NOPREFERENCESINPLUGINTOPIC mode? [15:42]
gac410Yes. AFAIK all of our defaults now use that.
I'm not referring to preferences. But other template changes, UserForm,. UserRegistration, NewUserTemplate, etc.
Lots of stuff ... now especially with the ordered INCLUDE{"Main.SomeTopic, System.SomeTopic"}%
[15:43]
cdotOIC. y, those can be done in Main I guess, though I still think Local would be a happier home for them. [15:44]
gac410Yes. Main is overused for both site customization, and users. [15:45]
cdot"System", "Local", and "User" where "Local" gets content from the current System and Main, and User gets content from a subset of Main.
that would split it up nicely.
plugin installs - splitting up templates, tools, lib etc - would be a lot trickier
[15:45]
gac410The installer would be a lot more difficult. but for search ordering, adding a local/lib in perl libpath, and local/templates into the Template search order would be pretty simple.
But something like this should probably be either part of Vrurg's 3.x, or post 3.x. ... That realease will be a HUGE disruptive change ... assuming we ever get there.
Just like someday a complete reddesign of the mappers. :(
[15:46]
cdotwhy would the installer be more difficult?
lib could be split up easily, just by manipulating $PATH
tools might be tricky
[15:55]
gac410y. [15:56]
cdotlocale too [15:56]
gac410oh yeah forgot about locale. [15:56]
cdotI always wanted a way for contribs to install their own lamngauge files [15:57]
gac410right now Michael changed local to allow per-extension subdirectories in local. And he has a modified maketext (not checked in ...iiirc) [15:57]
cdotyuck [15:58]
gac410iirc it's attached to the task where he changed core to allow the extension subdirs. [15:58]
Item9697 [16:03]
FoswikiBothttps://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item9697 [ Item9697: Enhance i18n infrastructure to support translation of extensions. ] [16:03]
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gac410hm cdot I've rm'd tinymce and tinymce_dev. then unzipped tinymce-4.6.6.zip to tinymce and tinymce-4.6.6_dev to tinymce_dev [16:19]
cdotwithout adding them to git? nice one. [16:20]
gac410well git status still shows 633 files deleted. [16:20]
cdotit would, if you rm'd them [16:20]
gac410but shouldn't the unzip put them all back? [16:21]
cdotI would have unwrapped over the top of the old one, then resolved the differences
dunno; sometimes git is a bit wierd, esp. when you delete dirs.
[16:21]
gac410the tricky thing is that the root directory of the _dev package is still tinymce. So I have to rename to get the _dev dir. Cant' expand over the top of it [16:23]
cdotIIRC I unzipped to a netural dir, renamed and did a cp -r [16:23]
gac410Ah... okay. Let's see what that does [16:24]
cdotor more likely some weird and wonderful find command
find . -type f -exec \[ ! -f zipdir/\{\} ] \&\& git rm \{\} \; or similar
[16:24]
gac410ugh...
Okay. the cp -r gets a much more reasonable 169 files modified.
gac410 is a complete novice with find. Your command broke my brain. But as is, it generates 1000's of [: missing ‘]’
I tried escaping the close ] but same results
(I used ls instead of git rm
[16:26]
diff --brief -r tinymce_dev/ zipdir/ gives a nice concise list. [16:37]
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gac410Hm cdot, one more question. It appears that tinymce_dev also ships with a tinymce_dev/src/ and tinymce_dev/config directories. Add them to git?
the /config/ directory is big. 1250 files.
er... /src/ not config.
[17:06]
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cdotI think I did, simply on the basis that it was too much work not to ! [17:50]
gac410Actually they are missing from our repo.
Just out of curiosity, do we use the _dev directory at all in a prod release ? Or is that only there for developers to switch to
[17:51]
cdotjust for developers. [17:52]
gac410gac410 is wondering if a "git subtree" pointing the tinymce directory over to https://github.com/tinymce/tinymce-dist would also be a workable solution.
If we don't modify the tinymce distribution at all, then subtrees might make a nice way of integrating the latest tinymce release ... except when they break binary compat. :(
[17:53]
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gac410for the logs... Never mind on subtrees. tinymce-dist doesn't contain the right files. :( [18:54]

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