#foswiki 2012-12-11,Tue

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myqHi everyone. Thanks for the 1.1.6 update. Looks good. [02:31]
gac410Great! thanks. [02:31]
myqOne issue came up during the upgrade, but I'm not sure if it's _because_ of the upgrade… [02:32]
gac410What's that [02:32]
myqWhen I try to add/remove/reinstall any extensions, I get this error: Can't call method "getLocal" on an undefined value at /var/www/phd/wiki/lib/Foswiki/Prefs.pm line 441.
It seems that some key value pair is not set in LocalSite.cfg?
but I can't find any key that doesn't have a value
[02:32]
gac410hm. That's a new one. I don't recall anything like that.
gac410 looking at the code...
[02:33]
myqit's the getPreferences method
this line: $value = $stack->backAtLevel(-2)->getLocal($key)
[02:34]
gac410Yeah... That has nothing to do with LocalSite.cfg. Preferences are the * Set xxx = statements. [02:34]
myqah, so my Main.SitePreferences probably has a problem [02:35]
gac410Are you trying install using bin/configure, or running them as a shell script? [02:35]
myqI had problem with '<p> </p>' showing up at the end of many values in Main.SitePreferences (not sure how they got there), so perhaps in cleaning that up, I've got a key without a value? [02:36]
gac410<p></p> is probably leftovers from older TinyMCE / Wysiwyg editing. It's just a blank line. Shouldn't cause any issues.
Could you pastebin the complete stack trace when an installation fails? It might also be related to Authentication. Configure establishes a session to do the topic updates when installing/removing an extension.
[02:37]
myqok [02:39]
it looks like the trouble starts when i click on the Install, Update and Remove Extensions button (lines 1-4): http://pastebin.com/CYdMTQc7 [02:49]
gac410That's really strange. Okay .. Looking at it. [02:49]
myqnothing shows up in data/warn201212.txt [02:50]
gac410Ah... hm... what version of perl are you running. Configure only logs to the apache log. Nothing in the foswiki logs.
Dependency.pm is trying to load the ChartPlugin module, and that is failing and it goes downhill from there, if I'm reading that log correctly.
[02:50]
myq$ perl -v This is perl 5, version 14, subversion 2 (v5.14.2) built for i686-linux-gnu-thread-multi-64int
i can disable that plugin
[02:51]
gac410I don't think that will make a difference. [02:53]
myqactually, that was it
i disabled and removed it, then I tried to install another extension
it seemed to work fine
no errors in the logs either
[02:54]
gac410Ah great. Well it's still an urgent issue. Configure should not die. I'll see if I can recreate it. Dependency.pm can be a bit sensitive to module errors unfortunately. [02:55]
myqI'll see if i can replicate it
Yes, it's definitely caused by ChartPlugin http://foswiki.org/Extensions/ChartPlugin
the errors come back when it's installed
shall I file a bug report or do you think it's something more sinister?
[02:55]
gac410Strange. I installed ChartPlugin on my 1.1.6 system and it's not failing. I switched to perl 5.14.2 as well. Let me try 5.16 - that's more strict on some stuff.
Are you installing the current ChartPlugin from Foswiki/Extensions? Or an older version you have locally?
[03:00]
myq2I'm using the built-in interface at /configure?action=FindMoreExtensions
not a local copy, unless it's using a cached copy or something
[03:04]
gac410Hm. But trying to view System/ChartPlugin fails with the getlocal crash. No idea why my configure doesn't fail though.
Okay.... The fix to ChartPlugin is indeed on line 90. It needs the qw(x x x ) surrounded by parenthesis. So foreach my $module (qw( GD POSIX .... gin::Table))
No idea why my configure doesn't crash. Maybe some other plugin has a dependency on ChartPlugin
[03:09]
myqThat fixed the problem. I added () around qw(…) and tried to install/uninstall an extension. No problems, no errors.
I should add that configure did give a nice exception screen, so it wasn't a bad crash :P
would it help to file a bug report for configure then? as well as ChartPlugin?
[03:20]
gac410Definitely one for ChartPlugin. Configure I'd really need a way to recreate it to fix it. But sure... add a task :) More to keep us busy [03:23]
myqok, thanks for your help. I'll try later tonight to reproduce the configure error with a fresh install. If I can do that, I'll file a task.
I know it's no fun trying to fix something that can't be reproduced!
[03:32]
gac410thanks. we appreciate the feedback. [03:33]
myqI appreciate the project!
Should I try to recreate it on the 1.2 alpha or 1.1.6 stable?
[03:39]
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GithubBot[foswiki] FoswikiBot pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/5mI_aQ
foswiki/master 0574d7f GeorgeClark: Item12285: Better fix...
[04:50]
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item12285 [ Item12285: Improve MAKETEXT macro ] [04:50]
pharveyhi gac410 [04:50]
gac410hi pharvey [04:50]
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myqgac410, are you still here? [07:53]
Any devs here? [08:05]
jastI'm here... not sure if I'm enough of a dev though ;) [08:06]
myq_Hi jast, no worries. I just want to ask about filing a bug report
If you have time, could you look at the conversation I had with gac410 for context: http://irclogs.foswiki.org/bin/irclogger_log/foswiki?date=2012-12-11,Tue
[08:08]
jastis this the conversation about ChartPlugin? [08:09]
myq_I can reliably reproduce the error in the config script with a fresh install of Foswiki 1.1.6 [08:09]
jastI did look at that briefly prior to responding :) [08:09]
myq_yes, but, according to gac410, this is actually a bug in the config script
ChartPlugin was just exposing it
Basically, if you have ChartPlugin v1.6 installed, and {UserInterfaceInternationalisation} enabled, and then install/reinstall/uninstall any extension, you'll get: Software error: Can't call method "getLocal" on an undefined value at /tmp/Foswiki-1.1.6/lib/Foswiki/Prefs.pm line 441.
I just want to file a Task now that I can reliably produce it with a fresh install, but I want to make sure I'm filing it in the right place with the right description, etc
[08:09]
jastokay.. I can probably help with that :) [08:12]
myq_as I'm not sure exactly what part is causing the problem. config or prefs or ...
just 'core'?
i already filed a Task and proposed patch for ChartPlugin
[08:12]
jastI don't think it matters very much
both config and prefs play a role here, and we can't say more without debugging anyway
[08:13]
myq_ok, so affected component: engine? [08:14]
jastjust assign whatever and if someone figures out what's going on, they can reassign it [08:14]
myq_ha [08:14]
jastdefinitely engine [08:14]
myq_I'm not sure how to describe the problem though
something like: config borked when UserInterfaceInternationalisation enabled? :P
[08:15]
jastthis only happens because ChartPlugin throws a warning, right?
so maybe something like: Configure dies on buggy extensions with UserInterfaceInternationalisation enabled
[08:15]
myq_It only occurs when ChartPlugin is installed and enabled, and UserInterfaceInternationalisation is enabled, and the user attempts to (un|re)install a plugin
ah, that seems reasonable
[08:16]
jastand you can put all the sordid details in the body of the task :) [08:17]
pharveyhi myq_ & jast, do you happen to have any Patch...Contrib installed? [08:17]
jastI don't
but hi to you, too :)
[08:17]
pharvey:)
7:29pm, and still filling in forms
[08:18]
jastthat doesn't sound particularly exciting [08:18]
pharveyhence my irc chatter :P [08:19]
jastmakes sense [08:20]
myq_@pharvey you are refering to my bug report? [08:26]
myq@jast: is this complete enough to help track it down? http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item12287 [08:30]
jastmyq: I suspect it's not going to be fun tracking it down regardless of what you write :) but looks fairly complete for now [08:31]
myqyeah, well, fortunately it doesn't show up often
I suspect it's related to http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item12065
[08:32]
jastlocale is a different can of worms
there are few things it doesn't break ;)
[08:33]
myqInternally, most webapps are having a hard time dealing with/moving to utf-8 [08:33]
jastthe particularly big impact of locale on foswiki is an issue related to perl with taint checks enabled
I think I added a brief explanation to some task
[08:34]
pharveyI asked two indian guys about a bunch of words written in Devanagari script. Between them, and perl, I got three different ideas about the length of some of them ("what's a character"), and also they could give me different ways of sorting them, depending on where you grew up (and how you learnt Devanagari)... [08:36]
jasthttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11953 [08:36]
myqah, yes, that's the same as my Item12065 [08:37]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item12065 [ Item12065: Use of =Locale= in =configure= causes =Main/SitePreferences= to throw errors ] [08:37]
myqI'll mark it as a dup
I don't really need the user interface localised, but I had problems with Thai and German in some of my pages mixed with English. After saving and re-editing, the Thai and German turned into mojibake
[08:37]
pharveymyq: please also update both of them with a link to each other's tasks [08:39]
myq@pharvey ok
@pharvey: done
[08:39]
pharveythanks :) [08:43]
jastyou know... bugzilla would do that automatically ;) [08:44]
myqIf you need help with S/SE Asian scripts, let me know. I can read some, but I'm not fluent enough with Perl to do anything useful :P [08:45]
pharveycool :) [08:45]
jastI don't even know what that means :P
all I know is that i18n is hard
[08:45]
pharveyI was just shocked to discover a writing system that can't do monospace
I felt rather ignorant of the world :P
[08:45]
jastwell, you can always do *some* kind of monospace, e.g. compress each semantic unit so it occupies the same space ;) [08:46]
myq@pharvey: yeah, the vowels can be anywhere _around_ the consonants
it's tricky
[08:47]
jasthe's gone, though :) [08:47]
myqIn thai, you a tripthong can be spread out to the left, top, and right of two consonants together
ah, bummer. He can check the logs. :P
oh, and a tone mark on top as well :P
[08:48]
jastfrom now on I'll write all my wiki topics as musical scores. :P [08:49]
myqha
Just FYI, this is a pretty good overview for anyone needing to work with i18n: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Unicode.html
[08:49]
jastoh, him :) [08:50]
myqYou can ignore the other pages, but this article is useful [08:51]
jastit's not as easy as he suggests
case folding, for example, is really tricky
in some languages the case mapping isn't bijective
Turkish, for instance, downcases capital i to a lowercase i without a dot
lowercase i *with* a dot doesn't have an uppercase equivalent
there was a fun PHP bug related to that recently
[08:52]
myqIt doesn't go into that level of detail, just that encoding shouldn't be assumed to take care of itself :P [08:53]
jastyeah, that much *is* easy
but then if you have to worry about normalizing the representation of graphemes... much less fun
[08:53]
myqI'll leave it up to Larry Wall to figure out how to upcase and downcase in various languages
Fortunately, Asian languages generally don't have case in their orthographies
[08:54]
jastI mean, good luck figuring out the difference between AllYourBase.com and ΑllYourBase.com in most fonts
or allyourbase.com vs allyοurbase.com
IDN is _awesome_ for phishing
bummer, the IRC logger doesn't do proper UTF-8
[08:55]
myqI thought language pairs which can produce those sorts of things are prohibited? [08:58]
jasthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDN_homograph_attack [09:02]
myq_See, even the IRC logger assumed only ISO 8859-x would be used :P [09:02]
jastyeah, it's a big sad story [09:04]
myq_interesting, i registered a mixed language domain name a few years ago and I thought that certain language combinations were prohibited to prevent that [09:04]
jastI fixed a lot of charset issues in CompareRevisionsAddOn recently
in the end I had to tell HTML::Entities to stay the heck away from special characters except <>&
because HTML::Entities, given byte strings, assumes latin1 (perhaps depending on perl's -C flags, though)
[09:04]
myq_Big, big mess
Things would have been easier if computers had been invented in a country that used a much more complex writing system :P
[09:06]
jast:)
too late for that
[09:07]
myq_bummer
Thanks for your great work everyone. I wish I could help out more, but I'm limited to bug reports until I learn more perl
ttyl
[09:09]
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CDotsourceforge is dead [09:36]
jastthey're just performing system tests ;) [09:38]
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... and it's back [09:54]
MartinKaufmannMichaelDaum_: Are you around? [10:01]
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foswiki_irc0hi [10:22]
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MartinKaufmannAnyone familiar with installing SolrPlugin from SVN/GitHub? [13:15]
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pharveyMartinKaufmann: I wrote up http://foswiki.org/Support/BestPracticeTip23 FWIW (not that I think it's a "best practice" but perhaps contains detail that might help?) [13:38]
MartinKaufmannpharvey: Thanks, I'll have a look.
pharvey: I'm looking for some information about minifying the js & css of the svn version. Do you know anything about that?
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CDotMartinKaufmann: minifying the CSS and JS is done by the BuildContrib for most extensions...... if that helps [15:33]
jastyeah, though JQueryPlugin does its own thing there
(iirc)
[15:37]
CDotyeah, Michael has never been one to share solutions [15:40]
jastit might actually be related to jQuery's own needs [15:40]
CDotthough I believe he uses the same tool to do the minification [15:40]
jastI did have a similar situation with CKEditor... CKEditor comes with its own packaging tools that have special treatment for special notation in the source files [15:41]
CDoty, there's something similar in TMCE [15:41]
jastI believe JQueryPlugin uses the YUI compressro [15:42]
CDotright... same as BuildContrib [15:42]
MichaelDaumCDot, yea I never share my stuff. [15:42]
jastBuildContrib uses CPAN modules by default AFAIK [15:42]
CDotMichaelDaum: you share your stuff; but you don't always share other people's :-) [15:42]
MartinKaufmannHi MichaelDaum! Are you back? [15:42]
gac410BuildContrib uses both. I think it tries YUI if it's there, otherwise it uses CPAN [15:42]
jastthe CPAN modules don't compress nearly as strongly as YUI
OTOH they're faster
[15:43]
MichaelDaumCDot, the makefiles do much better than your build contrib minifier, i.e. as it is available in non-build situations as well. besides it begin a lot faster. [15:43]
CDotYUI compression also does obfuscation, IIRC [15:43]
MichaelDaumMartinKaufmann, hi [15:44]
jastyou could say it's obfuscation, but really the main goal is compressing by shortening names where possible [15:44]
MartinKaufmannMichaelDaum: I could only find one Makefile in pub/System/SolrPlugin.
Running it, I only get "make: `ajax-solr' is up to date."
[15:44]
jastmy (currently not in SVN) approach to building CKEditor plugins does use BuildContrib but replaces pretty much all of the standard logic [15:45]
MichaelDaumMartinKaufmann, try first this: find -name "*uncompressed*" -exec touch {} \; [15:45]
CDotjast: right. That shortening amounts to obfuscation in the end, though it's not the main goal I agree. [15:45]
jastyep [15:45]
MichaelDaumMartinKaufmann, then do a make again
you might have mixed up file modification times installing things one after the other
[15:45]
jastFWIW I think compressed code without symbol renaming is obfuscated enough already :} [15:46]
CDotyou can always run the code back through a soap program (PrettyPrint::Javascript). Of course you lose comments, but who reads those....? [15:46]
jastthere's plenty of code that is fairly unreadable without comments [15:47]
CDotthere's plenty of code that is fairly unreadable _with_ comments ;-) [15:47]
jastI mean, sure, you can still understand *what* it does, but often enough that's not the difficult part [15:47]
MartinKaufmannMichaelDaum: still the same result. But yes, I just noticed that all the mod times are the same. [15:47]
MichaelDaumwhich version of JQueryPlugin are you using? [15:48]
MartinKaufmannThe latest (I think 1.8.2). [15:48]
jastthat's the jQuery version, what about the JQueryPlugin version? [15:48]
MichaelDaumthats the jquery-x.x.x.js contained within [15:48]
MartinKaufmannYes, it's 1.8.2. [15:48]
jastthere's a difference [15:48]
MichaelDaumthe foswiki JQueryPlugin has got its own version number
see System.InstalledPlugins
[15:49]
MartinKaufmannSorry, that's JQueryPlugin 4.45. [15:49]
CDothmmm.... as much as I love the idea of the AJAX checkers, does anyone else find the configure UI has become a bit.... confused? [15:52]
MartinKaufmannIf I use "git clone" I don't get the original timestamps. [16:01]
jastyeah, git doesn't store them [16:01]
MartinKaufmannGreat, I thought that's one of there reasons for using a vcs. [16:02]
jasthuh? no, individual mtimes are not very interesting from a SCM point of view
the only thing that's stored is what sets of changes you commit and when
[16:05]
MartinKaufmannBut the make process still doesn't work as expected (?). [16:11]
mcardozoI'm supporting a large twiki 4.2.4 installation in a corporate environment. I'm trying to find some information on the business benefits to upgrading/migrating to foswiki. Does a list of this information exist? [16:13]
CDotmcardozo: not in a canned presentation form, no. The main benefits people cite are (1) totally free (2) supported by an active community (3) under continuous development
if you do assemble a presentation, it would be a wonderful thing to donate back to the community :-)
[16:18]
mcardozoI'll do that
how about change logs from twiki to 1.0.5 and for each version of foswiki after the initial fork?
[16:19]
CDotthose are all available from the release notes [16:21]
gac410That's all in the Foswiki:System/ReleaseHistory Foswiki:System/ReleaseNotes01x00 and Foswiki:System/ReleaseNotes01x01 [16:21]
FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/System/ReleaseHistory [ ReleaseHistory ] http://foswiki.org/System/ReleaseNotes01x00 [ ReleaseNotes01x00 ] http://foswiki.org/System/ReleaseNotes01x01 [ ReleaseNotes01x01 ] [16:21]
mcardozogreat, thanks for the links [16:22]
jastMichaelDaum: might want to consider a field for Solr that allows searching for attachment filenames in a case-insensitive way
I suppose title_search comes close but it doesn't include the extension
the 'lowercase' type in the schema might be a good match
[16:32]
GithubBot[foswiki] FoswikiBot pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/rEfBHA
foswiki/master 899fa70 GeorgeClark: Item12285: More changes......
foswiki/master fd393ce GeorgeClark: Item11285: Last iteration of the patch...
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item12285 [ Item12285: Improve MAKETEXT macro ]
http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item11285 [ Item11285: Set up blog web ]
[16:34]
gac410I hate it when I use the wrong task :( [16:37]
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CDotjast: 5pm and it's darker than the inside of a witch's underwear at midnight :-( I hate winter! [16:53]
gac410Noon here, nice sunny day. But cold, so +1 on winter sentiments. [16:54]
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MAKETEXT is the only macro that calls CPAN modules .. except for some calls to CGI here and there, they all call other internal Foswiki modules. [17:13]
CDotis that true for extensions as well? [17:13]
gac410er... didn't check :( [17:14]
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mcardozobeen reading the release notes for a bit now...is it "OK" to go from twiki 4.2.4 directly to foswiki 1.1.6 or is there a recommended upgrade path? [17:34]
gac410No upgrade path needed. Do a new install of Foswiki, and then copy over the data.
Depending on how customized you are there are a lot more steps.. But you don't need to install a 1.0.x version of Foswiki first.
[17:35]
mcardozocool [17:36]
CDotmcardozo: just check that you have no custom or unsupported extensions installed first :-) [17:36]
mcardozowe certainly do have both of those things. I'm going to have to plan for those. Is there a list of the unsupported extensions? [17:37]
gac410yea. Best to build up a basic system, tailor templates, etc. install extensions, Migrate some user records to test your authentication, etc. [17:37]
CDotno, but there's a (shorter) list of the supported extensions [17:37]
gac410New extensions released by TWiki in the past year or so have not been copied to Foswiki. [17:37]
mcardozook, so the extensions list is all the supported ones? [17:41]
CDotmcardozo: for some value of "supprted", yes. [17:42]
gac410Well... maybe. Other than the "default" extensions, they are contributed by other users. ... so what CDot said. [17:42]
mcardozoheh, ok [17:42]
gac410Often we try to patch them up, but users move on, so it's possible some have suffered "bit rot" [17:43]
CDotmcardozo: you can get any extension supported - including those not on the list - by asking a consultant. But it probably won't be free. [17:43]
mcardozoright
and custom extensions could work with foswiki as long as they were developed properly?
[17:43]
gac410Or if it's a really common extension with a simple issue. Ex. just discovered yesterday that ChartPlugin won't run on newer perl which deprecates qw( ) for list. [17:44]
rhubarbHi all - Can someone help me with this error: Error: /var/www/foswiki/working/work_areas/LdapContrib/cache.db_tmp not readable not writable
permissions seem okay.
[17:45]
gac410TWikiCompatibilityPlugin provides a compatible API. So custom code using TWiki::Func calls should work if that plugin is enabled. But I recommend migration. [17:45]
rhubarbcan I just blow this cache away and re-synch? [17:45]
gac410MichaelDaum_: Ldap question ?? [17:46]
rhubarbThe problem is causing legit users to be unable to authenticate as foswiki sees them as guests [17:47]
gac410I think you can clear the cache, but I don't use ldap, so I'm not sure if that would solve your issue or make things worse :) [17:48]
rhubarbhmmm [17:48]
ok well I just broken something [17:53]
gac410FoswikiBot: seen Babar [17:54]
FoswikiBotgac410: Babar was last seen in #foswiki 6 days 18 hours ago saying "but the default, with proper structure, rocks already". [17:54]
GithubBot[foswiki] FoswikiBot pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/2giAHg
foswiki/master e187d59 TimotheLitt: Item12180: Alternate presentation...
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FoswikiBothttp://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item12180 [ Item12180: Implementation for AJAXOnDemandCheckersForConfigure ] [18:05]
CDotInsecure dependency in eval while running with -T switch at /home/foswiki/git/core/lib/Foswiki/Configure/Pluggable.pm line 44, <F> line 1658.
tsk
[18:12]
gac410Whoops [18:12]
CDotn.m. my fault [18:13]
gac410:) [18:13]
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GithubBot[foswiki] FoswikiBot pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/bFcx-w
foswiki/master a287bf0 TimotheLitt: Item12180: Pass nullok in URLPATH & apply to {ScriptUrlPaths}{view}....
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GithubBot[foswiki] FoswikiBot pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/ycYSMA
foswiki/master d4db62d TimotheLitt: Item12180: Default/restore value must trigger change...
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rhubarbCan anyone here help with ldap issue? [19:09]
gac410rhubarb ... I don't really know the ldap contrib, but whats going on. [19:14]
rhubarb: There is some discussion of the ldap cache and refreshing here http://irclogs.foswiki.org/bin/irclogger_log/foswiki?date=2011-12-14,Wed&sel=966#l962 [19:21]
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rhubarbgac, my issue is an error claiming: /var/www/foswiki/working/work_areas/LdapContrib/cache.db_tmp not readable not writable. However, www-data has rights the file and dir. [20:46]
gac410Did something change on the server? installed new software, update foswik? new / updated plugins? [20:46]
rhubarbno sir
So I was wondering if I could delete that file
and if the LDAPContrib would re-create
Currently the cache does not seem to be updating.
because of this issue, so I have new AD users that cannot log in.
[20:47]
gac410There are also url parameters to trigger a cache refresh. Is there plenty of space on the working/work_areas file system? [20:49]
rhubarbspace doesn't seem to be issue.
Let me trigger a manual refresh..
[20:49]
gac410do the directories in the path have the +x executable option
Without +x, directories can't be listed.
Anyone around familar with GaugePlugin or JHotDrawPlugin? Reports of them not working on 1.1.6
[20:49]
rhubarbgac they do have +x , do the files need that as well? [20:53]
gac410No, only the directories
+x on a file makes it executable. +x on a directory makes it listable.
[20:53]
rhubarbok well I moved the cache.db_tmp
refreshed cache...
I think that did it
[20:57]
gac410great. [21:06]
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Rich_MorinIs there a way to intersperse comments with slide bullets and other text in SlideShowPlugin? [22:55]
SvenDowideitprobably
if you play with css :)
though I'd look at the new re-write in trunk
and then add support for it
[23:00]
Rich_Morinyou might; me, not so much [23:00]
SvenDowideitgrin - i often get what i want that way :p [23:01]
Rich_MorinI think I'll live with the prevailing paradigm for the moment. [23:01]
SvenDowideitSvenDowideit remembers he needs to hit svn commit on the Padre perl debugger UI changes [23:02]
Rich_MorinHere's some SciFi for your amusement - http://wiki.cfcl.com/bin/view/Projects/Codeq/Codeq_Wiki [23:04]
SvenDowideitactually, i have a scifi q for you
or is it lofi
i suspect that one major reason that twiki/foswiki managed to get traction for its application creation system
is that its string replacement / macro system looks like 'not-programming'
when i make that assumption, i really wonder how one could take that further into a more modern UI
some people talk about the need for a GUI dev env, but i have the feeling that would be worse, as the reality of it would satisfy no-one
atm i'm doing foswiki&SAP work - but git store is on my list for 1.2
thou 1.2 is delayed, as the trunk code is not ready, and i'm out of steam for it
i love their blog UI - it explores the same UI presentation concepts that michael sparks played with in the early 2000's
'their' - datomic's
ok, re-reading your wishlist, yup, and not scifi really
just a tiny amount of integration work - and one foswiki release needed
to put it unkindly, GitPlugin is exactly the wrong way to implement git store, even for the store in twiki
but i guess its how one would do it if one had no knowledge of the core :/
fantastic lesson in real world SW dev tho - get something working without looking too hard at the huge codebase
[23:05]
Rich_MorinThanks for the caveat on GitPlugin. Ping me when you have something better. :-) [23:19]
SvenDowideithehe, sadface :) [23:21]
gac410Any trunk wysiwyg users around? Foswikirev:16146 makes a hopefully big improvement in WikiWord link handling. But it needs some serious scrutiny and plays some games with css class names. [23:23]
FoswikiBothttp://trac.foswiki.org/changeset/16146 [ Changeset 16146 – Foswiki ] [23:23]
gac410I'm thinking it would be good to release that to a post 1.1.6 wysiwyg release. [23:24]
SvenDowideitfeatureman!
though i now agree fully, as i can't see 1.2
[23:25]
gac410well badly implemented feature post 1.1.5 [23:25]
Rich_MorinHave you been following Ward Cunningham's Smallest Federated Wiki work? [23:26]
SvenDowideityup, even contributed to it [23:27]
Rich_Morin+1! [23:27]
SvenDowideitdid the first node.js port, and did a zero server side impl
but that was almost a year ago, and i think they've re-done all that
its dev direction isn't where i want to go atm tho
[23:27]
Rich_MorinHe showed up at a D3 BOF I was running. We let him speak. :-) [23:28]
SvenDowideitgiggle - you though you could stop him? [23:29]
gac410SvenDowideit: Time to eat. but we'll get there with 1.2. Pharvey made a good planning topic categorizing the tasks. Need to just start picking through them. I've started a bit of that but "got distracted" for obvious reasons. [23:29]
SvenDowideitgac410, y, v true [23:29]
Rich_MorinHe was modest, pleasant, and absolutely fscinating. [23:29]
SvenDowideitRich_Morin, yup
and a good listener too
but even so - from what i have seen - you can't stop him from communicating
that man makes me smile
[23:29]
Rich_MorinI don't think I'd try.
Have you ever met Larry Wall?
[23:30]
SvenDowideiti had a go a few times - because i was trying to do something simpler than he was >:}
yup, same
i shoulda gotten a foto with larry
apparently that would make me a shoe-in to get a good python job
[23:30]
Rich_MorinV&I went to dinner with Eric Raymond and Larry Wall. IIRC, they chatted about linguistics... [23:32]
SvenDowideithehe
i imagine for them, thats like us talking about the weather :)
[23:32]
Rich_MorinLarry gave a great talk about how his belief in science and the Bible don't conflict. "If you have problems reconciling these two views of the universe, the problem is not with the universe." [23:34]
SvenDowideitnow _that_ is low
:)
[23:34]
Rich_MorinMore generally, he applies TIMTOWTDI to pretty much everything. So, he believes what he believes, but leaves it up to others to find their own way.
He's an existence proof that evangelicals can be open minded.
[23:35]
SvenDowideithehe, or the exception that shows we're all insane [23:36]
Rich_Morin(spoken as a lapsed Unitarian :-) [23:36]
SvenDowideiti have trouble mustering the arrogance to select a religion [23:37]
Rich_MorinV&I claim to be polytheistic epistemological agnostics.
One car has the invisible pink unicorn; the other has the flying spaghetti monster.
[23:37]
SvenDowideithehe - i feel more likely to sympathise with polytheistic, on a presumption that we're unlikely to be omipitant enough to make a reasonable choice
giggle
but i do beleive in one thing - do is better than wish&hope
i hope i'm not too wrong tho
[23:38]
i've not heard - though its pretty darned white where he is [23:45]
gac410he's got 118 messages queued up on the server, according to mailq anyway [23:47]

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